Nair vs weak shield.

[Rohins]

Doing a short hop nair and fast falling on top of a weak shield will poke. This messes up shield campers (people who sit in shield to shield grab or do moves out of shield). People can act before you hit the shield, so I wouldn't recommend this too much vs people w/ fast utilts (snake, meta, etc). Also doesn't work vs Yoshi since his shield doesn't ever reveal him.

This is a nice pressuring tool and works well to mix with your approaches. There's nothing guaranteed after this, I like to ftilt or bomb retreat afterwards. It will push people to the ledge if they are close enough so you can apply your vs ledge game.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Rohins, this guy is freaking good at Samus

 

[n00b]

Rohins is good at Samus

/thread

 

[0RLY]

Regardless, Samus' fastfall is STILL too slow. Her fastfall speed is comparable to Luigi's normal fall speed. You can STILL get grabbed by characters who are in their shields (except Samus, because her grab is too slow). Also, beware of upB/usmashes OoS. Marth is an especially dangerous target to hit with this.

It shield pokes because hitting a shield leaves the hitbox out on the sex kick. Normally, when you hit with a sex kick in brawl, the hitbox goes away after it hits and deals damage. So, by hitting the shield, it weakens the shield just enough so that Samus' slow falling speed allows her nair to land a "second" hit on your foe. This is what I learned from my game play experiences so this may not be 100% true.

This may be effective you can land the nair while your foe is facing away from you. Like when both you and your foe are at high %, and begin to camp. When you get close to your foe, both players may hide in their shield in an attempt to punish lag. Samus' aerial DI may be good enough to SH nair and land behind your foe to prevent any shield grab attempts. However, 6% for a move that can't combo nor kill at high % doesn't seem that helpful to me.

 

[ADHD]

Yeah I tried this last night, it failed.

 

[Rohins]

It shield pokes because hitting a shield leaves the hitbox out on the sex kick. Normally, when you hit with a sex kick in brawl, the hitbox goes away after it hits and deals damage. So, by hitting the shield, it weakens the shield just enough so that Samus' slow falling speed allows her nair to land a "second" hit on your foe. This is what I learned from my game play experiences so this may not be 100% true.

This may be effective you can land the nair while your foe is facing away from you. Like when both you and your foe are at high %, and begin to camp. When you get close to your foe, both players may hide in their shield in an attempt to punish lag. Samus' aerial DI may be good enough to SH nair and land behind your foe to prevent any shield grab attempts. However, 6% for a move that can't combo nor kill at high % doesn't seem that helpful to me.

We're talking about different things. I'm not talking about getting two hits (one on shield, one after) I'm talking about a person having a weak shield and you hit them by dropping nair on top. There's no shield hit. They can still block if they angle their shield up, but if it's getting that predictable you shouldn't be using it anymore.

Saying it doesn't combo is a mute point, Samus hardly has any "guaranteed" combos. You're taking advantage of someone camping their shield. Of course you need to space it and use it right, same thing can be said for any move. If you want the best time to hit someone with this, it's their back facing you and they're facing the ledge because it pushes them off the level and down (depending on character & %).

That all being said, I don't see why you emphasize on the usefulness on techniques in of themselves. It's good to understand the weaknesses but you make it seem as if you should never do it. What moves do you use? I'd like to be enlightened on the stuff that always works with Samus.

Yeah I tried this last night, it failed.

Care to elaborate, or do you not want to contribute to the discussion?

 

[0RLY]

Alright, lets use your situation of your opponent facing the ledge with a weak shield up.

If they're within kill range, you can simply run up to them for a dtilt. Dtilt hits under shields and should KO them. If they roll, they should end up behind you, but too far away to hit you. Unless it's Ike or D3 or somebody else with absurd range. At this point you should wait to see what your opponent will do, like if you see them dash towards you, you could ftilt. If you see them try to shffl something, shield and prepare to screw attack out of it. If they roll back more, restart your approach (or camp).

If they're aren't within kill range, you could try jab canceling on their shield, since they are unable to grab you out of it. If it's a character with a decent OoS option, I would just go for the dash grab. If they're at the very lip of the edge, I would use a dash attack in an attempt to get that easy spike (since it pushes them off... there's a vid somewhere). If they roll away and your grab misses, expect to get punished. Don't make the same mistake twice though, if the opportunity arises again, use a pivot grab, they will roll right into your grapple beam.


tl;dr: shields>aerials

 

[Rohins]

Alright, lets use your situation of your opponent facing the ledge with a weak shield up.

If they're within kill range, you can simply run up to them for a dtilt. Dtilt hits under shields and should KO them. If they roll, they should end up behind you, but too far away to hit you. Unless it's Ike or D3 or somebody else with absurd range. At this point you should wait to see what your opponent will do, like if you see them dash towards you, you could ftilt. If you see them try to shffl something, shield and prepare to screw attack out of it. If they roll back more, restart your approach (or camp).

If they're aren't within kill range, you could try jab canceling on their shield, since they are unable to grab you out of it. If it's a character with a decent OoS option, I would just go for the dash grab. If they're at the very lip of the edge, I would use a dash attack in an attempt to get that easy spike (since it pushes them off... there's a vid somewhere). If they roll away and your grab misses, expect to get punished. Don't make the same mistake twice though, if the opportunity arises again, use a pivot grab, they will roll right into your grapple beam.


tl;dr: shields>aerials

Jab canceling is terrible vs shield. All you have to do is buffer a grab during the jab animation and it's a free grab. I'm also surprised you mentioned dash grab since that is easy to avoid and has tons of lag. Not saying it isn't a bad idea every now and then but with the way you're so critical to "things that don't work" I don't know why you listed these two.

I made the vid for dash attacking a shield -> dair. It doesn't work vs everyone, but it's a nice option when it's available.

That dtilt under shield is pretty cool, I'll keep that in mind when I've been wearing down a shield and they're high %. Doesn't look like it works vs everyone and the spacing is tight but that's really valuable info, thanks for sharing.

 

[0RLY]

Rohins, they can't grab you if they're facing the opposite way. Jab cancel pressures them to roll or jump. Depending on who's air game is better, Samus can easily intercept their jump with an aerial or Screw Attack. The grab is bad, especially when side-dodged, but a dash grab right in front of them practically has no start up. You barely see the grapple beam come out.