Official Mysterious Arsenal - Greninja Information & AT Thread

[Onyxsbayne]

I'm also interested in how this works. Been trying it out, but I havnt gotten it to work.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

Tutorial

 

[FooltheFlames]

Greninja can do lagless ledge cancels!

at 0:58

Is this widely known here yet?

 

[Steve.Stone]

So you can do lagless get up and forward Smash or grab? Amazing! :O

 

[FooltheFlames]

So you can do lagless get up and forward Smash or grab? Amazing! :O

Yep. ^^
I think all the poke's can do this tech except Pika, which is good, cuz he is already TOO good!

 

[Steve.Stone]

Awesome. And I didn't know about that lagless counter thing either. Now I'll REALLY be able to use substitute effectively!

 

[Lemonade Candy]

About to try this

Edit: Doesnt

 

[doublec72]

I think i may have discovered a new technique: I was playing on FG when after respawning i killed a guy out of the blue with a shadow sneak. I was still on the respawn platform as my shadow was moving. I think I may have discovered the respawn shadow sneak.

 

[Steve.Stone]

Yeah I do that lots of times...but I don't know how to actually do it on purpose. Also sometimes I'll be pushing right on the stick but my shadow moves left or vice versa, while still in the platform. If you figure out how to make it work let us know please!

I THINK you might have to start the move while you're dying but before the platform appears but I'm not sure.

 

[doublec72]

So think I've figured out how to intentionally do the respawn shadow sneak: You must input the move right before/as soon as the respawn platform stops lowering. It also seems that the shadow will only move in the direction that Greninja is facing when he respawns, as while I respawn facing right, i tried to move the shadow to the left and it just went right instead.

 

[DisidisiD]

I noticed a couple things in the training room that might seem obvious but I didn't know. For one, you can use wall cling as you charge SS. Using this, you could potentially stall or use this to recover onto the stage far behind an opponent trying to edgeguard you.
The other thing is something that I've gotten much less frequently is grabbing the ledge as I am charging SS. You don't keep the charge but if an opponent sees your shadow and moves to that location to punish your SS, you could grab the ledge and reset neutral.

Again, I don't know if these are obvious things with SS but I am new to the character and found these tricks interesting.

EDIT: oh and with the first thing, they can't see the shadow until you get above the level of the stage. It could potentially also be mixed with the platform SS thing to further mix up recovery options.

 

[Gunla]

With the changes now confirmed and laid in stone, the thread has been updated to reflect the changes in 1.1.3.

 

[Materialized JSON]

I am a new Greninja and I have watched lots of videos of VGBC aMSa and Techie. I noticed that aMSa spaces with shff fair quite a lot whereas Techie barely uses it. While shff fair really looks cool to me, and landing with a mid range aerial with disjoint hit box might make sense, I still have trouble understanding why/whether it is useful. In fact, I've been watching some replays on Online Replay Channel, and mostly greninja's would do short hop or full hop fast fall nairs to get in here and there, and I have not seen a single greninja using shff fair to land (but sample size is quite limited here).
Looking at the frame data, greninja short hop air time is 34 frames, and even full hop is 52 frames. Empirically, for shff fair to work, the fair would need to begin at near apex of short hop, even a little bit before that. It makes sense, because the hit box is active through frames 16-17, and you most of time land right after the hitbox is active. Looking at frame data again, the move is autocancellable either before frame 12, in which case hit box is not active, or after 40 frames. If one performs shff fair, greninja most likely lands before frame 20. That means greninja will have to suffer the 18 frames of landing lag. For comparison, landing lag of nair is 12 frames.
I've also read that fair is safe on shield in that it pushes opponents away. I have not found that to be true in the videos I have watched. I then wonder if hit stun is what makes it safe. However, according to SmashWiki, hit stun is directly proportional to knockback. Then according to the frame data again, fair actually has the same base/weight based knockback with nair and bair, and has less knockback growth.
Is shff fair worthy of a spacing technique at all? Would appreciate it if someone could elaborate! Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Jaguar360]

I am a new Greninja and I have watched lots of videos of VGBC aMSa and Techie. I noticed that aMSa spaces with shff fair quite a lot whereas Techie barely uses it. While shff fair really looks cool to me, and landing with a mid range aerial with disjoint hit box might make sense, I still have trouble understanding why/whether it is useful. In fact, I've been watching some replays on Online Replay Channel, and mostly greninja's would do short hop or full hop fast fall nairs to get in here and there, and I have not seen a single greninja using shff fair to land (but sample size is quite limited here).
Looking at the frame data, greninja short hop air time is 34 frames, and even full hop is 52 frames. Empirically, for shff fair to work, the fair would need to begin at near apex of short hop, even a little bit before that. It makes sense, because the hit box is active through frames 16-17, and you most of time land right after the hitbox is active. Looking at frame data again, the move is autocancellable either before frame 12, in which case hit box is not active, or after 40 frames. If one performs shff fair, greninja most likely lands before frame 20. That means greninja will have to suffer the 18 frames of landing lag. For comparison, landing lag of nair is 12 frames.
I've also read that fair is safe on shield in that it pushes opponents away. I have not found that to be true in the videos I have watched. I then wonder if hit stun is what makes it safe. However, according to SmashWiki, hit stun is directly proportional to knockback. Then according to the frame data again, fair actually has the same base/weight based knockback with nair and bair, and has less knockback growth.
Is shff fair worthy of a spacing technique at all? Would appreciate it if someone could elaborate! Thanks a lot in advance!

Definitely. Shff F-air is one of Greninja's best options in neutral. aMSa, Venia and Some/Consomme are masters of it and it gives Greninja a safe option to approach and keep people out. This is something that you should definitely work on spacing and go to Training mode to practice.

F-air is only really safe at its maximum distance. Otherwise you're likely to get punished, but it's still good to throw out. Same goes for Shff N-air after patch 1.11 increased shield stun.

Other good Greninjas to watch are Some (who supposedly dropped Greninja last week, but was probably the best Greninja so far; check SHI-G's channel for his matches), Venia (probably best USA Greninja, HouseOf3000 has videos of him in tournament), NinjaLink (another NY Greninja, has his own channel and also has a couple matches on other channels), iStudying (Netherlands Greninja who's probably the best in the world atm), Elexiao (France) and Edddy (Spain). This should give you a lot to learn from .

Welcome to Smashboards! Glad to see another player interested in the underrated frog.

 

[Materialized JSON]

Definitely. Shff F-air is one of Greninja's best options in neutral. aMSa, Venia and Some/Consomme are masters of it and it gives Greninja a safe option to approach and keep people out. This is something that you should definitely work on spacing and go to Training mode to practice.

F-air is only really safe at its maximum distance. Otherwise you're likely to get punished, but it's still good to throw out. Same goes for Shff N-air after patch 1.11 increased shield stun.

Other good Greninjas to watch are Some (who supposedly dropped Greninja last week, but was probably the best Greninja so far; check SHI-G's channel for his matches), Venia (probably best USA Greninja, HouseOf3000 has videos of him in tournament), NinjaLink (another NY Greninja, has his own channel and also has a couple matches on other channels), iStudying (Netherlands Greninja who's probably the best in the world atm), Elexiao (France) and Edddy (Spain). This should give you a lot to learn from .

Welcome to Smashboards! Glad to see another player interested in the underrated frog.

Wow! Thank you so much for the reply, Jaguar360! That's a new bunch of channels for me to watch!
I also found shield stun to be a thing after I posted, and supposed that makes F-air safer than say N-air due to F-air's high damage, combined with range. When hit with F-air, one will suffer 8 frames of shield stun it seems. Though if one power shielded, he would still be in frame advantage due to our landing lag.

 

[Materialized JSON]

I have not figured out exactly how hydro pump windbox works. There are clear examples where you push opponents away along the direction of the jets, which is quite intuitive. However, lots of the times, characters in their vertical recovery moves are given a boost just like how greninja get the boost from the water and rockets to the sky. In some of the examples I saw, it seems like the opponents are hit by the windbox close to greninja. For example, in https://gfycat.com/SarcasticVainKoala. Is greninja's movement during hydro pump actually the artifact of the hydro pump windbox? In the gif above, it makes sense if greninja's movement also depends on the force provided by the windbox because metaknight is lighter than greninja and he sort of catches up with him vertically and eventually hit him.
Though I suspect that the move would have a lot more glitches if it does rely on the force provided by the windbox, e.g. when dealing with existing momentum. I personally have not seen a case where greninja's previous momentum influences his movement in hydro pump, whereas hydro pump doesn't directly override opponents' momentum at all. Differentiating whose hurtbox the hitbox is interacting with is, on the other hand, prevalent in most fighting games, so things could go either way. But if so, then if we want to lift opponents up into the sky, we just need to cross them explicitly or have them catch up to the windbox close to us at some point?
Sorry about any redundant information, would be great if anyone could confirm/reject this hypothesis of mine. Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Materialized JSON]

Found the video posted by Techei regarding an upper blast zone hydro push kill following up merely an uthrow, which could potentially back up my hypothesis. I propose that what happened is he first crossed the opponent with windbox close to him, and as the jets propelling him down came out, the opponent was already far enough from him to be pushed instead of pulled by the windbox. Opponent might have tried to jump as he was crossed over, but I think that just being both pulled and pushed by hydro pump windbox should cost the stock at that height. If this is true, then we actually have a new hydro pump AT, to cross the opponent and immediately turn 180 degrees to launch opponent beyond upper blast zone.
To my disappointment though, the opponent could very likely have jumped, so I couldn't be sure if this technique would actually work (and I am not precise enough to test this out). I don't have the tool to look at the animation of the other greninja, and the magnifying view in the video is way too brief. The missing link in this account is how come the opponent greninja is only hit by the windbox of the second jet when he is far enough away? The opponent is also a greninja, the windbox could at best make him travel as fast as a greninja on hydro pump. That means the two greninja's must have crossed twice if the opponent greninja has not jumped. If the windbox is active the second time they crossed, how come the opponent greninja was not pulled down by the windbox close to greninja? Therefore, either the windbox was not active when the two greninjas crossed, or they only crossed once.
One thing worth noticing is that when I cross a grounded opponent with hydro pump he would not be pulled in the direction I am traveling at all. To unlock the truth of why opponents are pulled in the videos we see, we should have an answer to this as well.
Hope someone else more experienced could join me in the investigation, and we would, if not develop a new hydro pump AT, gain deeper understanding of hydro pump windbox mechanism!
EDIT: Never mind, the opponent greninja did jump, and it seems from other sources and some testing that hydro pump only pushes upwards and away. It's also likely that opponents are indeed pushed twice for those upper blast zone kills, so there is no special technique really.

 

[BigNig]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it's worth pointing out, his d-air spike is a great surprise edge guarding tool and if done right is 100% safe.

If you double jump and dair at the top of your jump, you will have time to drop down and hydro pump back up to the ledge with no worries. This works great against characters with good vertical recovery, and often your follow up hydro pump can hinder (and sometimes assist ) the enemies recovery.

 

[Materialized JSON]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it's worth pointing out, his d-air spike is a great surprise edge guarding tool and if done right is 100% safe.

If you double jump and dair at the top of your jump, you will have time to drop down and hydro pump back up to the ledge with no worries. This works great against characters with good vertical recovery, and often your follow up hydro pump can hinder (and sometimes assist ) the enemies recovery.

The only problem with that, is that Greninja's dair only has its first 3 frames meteoring opponents. If your opponent see you setting it up by double jumping, he could usually avoid the situation. If he was recovering low, he has ample time to react, but if he is recovering high, he could just drop low as long as he does not drop below the stage to get stage spiked.

 

[Gunla]

Updated to 1.1.4; no changes, but a new AT was added.

 

[Nameless Pariah]

Updated to 1.1.4; no changes, but a new AT was added.

What AT?

 

[Gunla]

What AT?

Frontstab - Using Shadow Sneak, holding the charge, turning around while releasing the button and flicking the button will have Greninja do the backstab in the direction you initially faced.
[/spoiler]​

 

[Nameless Pariah]

Thanks man

 

[free33]

Please ignore this idk how to delete

 

[E.D.N.D.N]

Hey yall. I recently found out about Bidou (shout out to my smash corner) and I know I'm kind of way late to finding out about it but I was considering using it. Just wanted to know what you all think about it's benefits/drawbacks. Been labbing with it a bit and can't decide if it's worth putting in the effort to completely relearn my control scheme.

The Drawbacks seem to be that it's almost impossible to do short hop retreating fair (you need to input forward with the right stick and hit attack on what seems to be the same frame) and perfect pivot up-tilt is harder (you have to wait a bit to avoid using a smash attack).

The benefits I've seen are that perfect pivots, extended dash dancing, ledge trumping, fox trotting, changing up the distance of you fox trot, and perfect pivot crouching are Waaaaay easier. You can also do a sliding spot doge, perfect pivot into a smash OR tilt, or run immediately out of walking (which I don't think you can do with the stick set to tilt).

Would like to hear if anybody has tried using your right stick for special, and if it's worth it.

 

[Megamang]

I don't think it is worth it, but I use a lot of retreating fair from a short hop due to how amazingly safe it is for the damage.

I can also perfect pivot with just the stick pretty consistently, and use it in my game a lot. Part of me just doesn't want to learn new controls, especially with a Megaman I learned with the same controls (tilt stick, L for jump, no tap jump). So I don't think easy perfect pivots would make a huge difference in my game, since I can use them fairly reliably anyways. I recommend learning this way, personally, because having total control of your aerial motion while swinging your fair is super important to greninja IMO.


But, of all characters to use Bidou, I think greninja would become supper slippery (long PP slide) and could find good usage, since his tilts and smashes are all pretty good. And from what I understand, there are a few techniques that are only possible with Bidou, something to do with an instant walljump I believe.

---

Could someone post the exact input of the frontstab? I'm confused by the current wording.

 

[free33]

https://youtu.be/sBIER7jycRw?t=7m24s can someone please tell me what this is? can we seriously taunt while holding our shadow sneak charge!? this is a ridiculous mindgame!

 

[Lemonade Candy]

I feel like utilt is core in our game. i know that if i get an uptilt in a match its either big damage or a death. but my current problem is how do i set up utilt? i get that whole at low percentages thing (even though i normally opt for jab or dtilt) but what about at mid or high percents?

 

[free33]

I feel like utilt is core in our game. i know that if i get an uptilt in a match its either big damage or a death. but my current problem is how do i set up utilt? i get that whole at low percentages thing (even though i normally opt for jab or dtilt) but what about at mid or high percents?

I tend to set it up through juggling. put them in the air, usually with u throw or some other move, then empty hop bait and up tilt. perfect pivoting it is also really good due to the better horizontal distance. you can beat out most aerials with it since the tongue is completely invincible. It is pretty when fighting on the ledge as well.

 

[Lemonade Candy]

I tend to set it up through juggling. put them in the air, usually with u throw or some other move, then empty hop bait and up tilt. perfect pivoting it is also really good due to the better horizontal distance. you can beat out most aerials with it since the tongue is completely invincible. It is pretty when fighting on the ledge as well.

but ppl with range stuff me every time. marth's fair for example

 

[Megamang]

Something worth noting with Fair usage in neutral, is that Nair is better for conversions and is similarly able to mix up on shield.

But having a fresh fair can mean the end of a stock in surprising situations. I like to smack neutral ledge stand with fair, since you aren't really risking any retaliation most of the time. Especially at SV, this can kill very early for how safe and quick it is. Fair falls off quite a bit from being stale. But on the other hand, if your fair is that stale you probably are hitting them a lot and doing alright. It all depends. I like it on characters that I can struggle to kill from grab conversions.

 

[free33]

speaking of Fair, I was thinking about the Z axis, and the arc that Fair makes. Because Duck hunt and omega DH flatten everything, Could Fair have even better Frame data on that stage? that would be very useful. It could come out faster and stay out longer.

 

[Nameless Pariah]

I feel like utilt is core in our game. i know that if i get an uptilt in a match its either big damage or a death. but my current problem is how do i set up utilt? i get that whole at low percentages thing (even though i normally opt for jab or dtilt) but what about at mid or high percents?

I usually try to use the back part of the hitbox for utilt although it may not work on shorter characters (https://zippy.gfycat.com/CourageousGrandioseHorse.mp4)

You also (and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of this earlier) could condition them to always anticipate a falling nair and then jump and land behind them when they start shielding a lot then go for the up-tilt

 

[BigHairyFart]

speaking of Fair, I was thinking about the Z axis, and the arc that Fair makes. Because Duck hunt and omega DH flatten everything, Could Fair have even better Frame data on that stage? that would be very useful. It could come out faster and stay out longer.

The hitbox on F-Air is only active for two frames, both of which are at the right depth to hit everytime, so flat stages wouldn't actually make any difference. Same goes for F-Smash and D-Smash.

 

[free33]

Hey guys I was researching footstools and I came across this bit of information – when a character footstools another character, The Area displaced between them left or right varies greatly based on the character getting footstooled. This, along with the character's size seems to be the determining factor in whether it's possible, and how strict the timing is, to do sourspot dair-footstool-dair spike. This combo can end early stocks or put your opponent in a terrible position, but after testing it on Ike, DK and charizard, I found it much harder to do on Ike simply because I kept hitting the sourspot on him (which still isn't bad because at the percents it works , you can get Uair spike or fair, which are both still great). I was wondering if there was a place to get the data on who this combo works on. What determines these footstool physics? Air speed/mobility? If anyone has good info on this, please let me know. Otherwise, I will try to find it myself, and share it later. Thanks!

 

[Epok]

Okay everybody! Incoming wall of text, but probably worth your time!

I have been lurking pretty hard for the past few months (like a ninja amirite :^] ) and It's been pretty quite. Not a lot of new discoveries . I came across some very interesting things that to my knowledge have not been discussed. So I would like to share my findings and give you some videos to go with it.

I have been messing around with some more uses for shadow sneak. IIRC some of the good stuff was patched out like SS while shielding or running with SS. I don't have my capture card with me right now so these videos are imported right from my WiiU to YouTube. So I will explain how to do the techs below. Hopefully someday I can do a proper video of my findings.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a_JZ3GKwnM

Wall Cling Shadow Sneak(better name soon)
Because SS stops your running animation when you are going of the ledge you can hold back and wall cling. When you let go of the B button (or your special button) he will activate his shadow sneak. It's pretty versatile because you can now put a strong hit box in front of the ledge that can yield you early KO's which is something that can be hard for Greninja. The cool thing about this is you have quite a few options when your clinging the wall.

-If your SS is moving toward the stage you will kick in place.
-If your SS is moving away from the stage you can catch someone unsuspectingly way out while still keeping your jump.
**Both of the two from above can jump off the wall for more height or to cover the right space to connect with SS and still keep your double jump**
-If you are holding SS towards the stage and you see them recovering high, you can jump over the ledge and SS back on stage retaining the charge distance. You could potentially catch them getting on stage.

The motions are pretty simple and will take no more than 30-60 mins training to get the hang of it. The motions are straight forward but the timing and knowing when to release the SS is the tricky part. I just figured this out tonight after just labbing around a few times this week.

**Remember it has to be a stage you can wall cling on. you can do similar moves on some stages but Duck Hunt and Some of the Omega stages are optimal for this technique. **

Instructions:
- Run towards the ledge
- Choose what direction you want to go with SS:
* If towards the stage start holding as soon as you fall off the ledge and keep holding.
* If away from the stage start your SS right BEFORE you leave the stage. As you fall off the ledge immediately hold back to cling the wall.
* The Wall cling can be delayed a bit if you want to drop down lower, but that depends on the situation or opponent.
- Jump if needed and let go of the B(special) button. I suggest assigning a shoulder button to jump so you can be fast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7wJcGUEqPk

Sliding Shadow Sneak (maybe needs a better name idk lol)

This may have been related to the patch out of the running SS. I'm not quite sure, but this is pretty simple and I think it may be pretty useful when done right. SS hits surprisingly hard but we don't really have any true kill confirms outside of Dair > SS at 120%-ish.

How this works is when your initial dash animation starts you immediately start your SS in the opposite direction. Doing this gives Greninja a unique sliding animation that is different than his regular turn around. And it goes noticeably far. It is important that you hold the SS or a second or else he wont slide. This is a good mind game / bait tool or a whiff punish. Another great thing is you gain more distance coming back so you can start at a safer distance. Most of the time you will be running away and slingshoting back to kick them in the face. Although if you have next level mind games you can potentially use this as a cross up. This can also utilize the "back stab" AT to make sure you hit with the back kick that does more damage and knock back.

I made a little demo video of me playing around with some of this stuff on a level 3 CPU. The video is not meant to show my skill, or lack thereof. Only as a technical exhibition to remove it out of the vacuum or training mode. I by no means have this stuff mastered, and I am definitely not the best Greninja out there. If anything I am an obsessive lab rat who likes shadow sneak too much lol. I finally figured out how to do it and explain it today and I was excited to share this with everyone and see how far we can take it. and breath some new life in the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Lb5rnh7_Q

A few other things I have notice that may be worth mentioning about Shadow Sneak in general that I haven't come across in the forums:

-You can fall though a platform while charging SS. this causes the shadow to jump right to its destination because if you or on a platform it stops at the edge, but then you are in the air it moves freely. That may lend for a sneaky side B that is hard to predict.

- I have no idea how I did this and I have only done it 2 or 3 times, but I canceled a SS with a ledge trump. I have no Idea if this is even worth using or not but I though I would share. I think its in one of my recorded matches. If I can find it I'll share it.

Thanks so much for reading! Please let me know if this stuff was known so that I don't take someone else's credit. I checked the original post and didn't see it. I think this could bring some much needed power to our character.

STAY FROGGY

 

[Megamang]

I like SS to punish SH approachs or dashgrabs. Disappear like a spotdodge -> punish.

Your platform sneak is something i use! I find standing at the edge of the plat helps, since your shadow stays beneath you its nice.

Another sneaky SS trick is to start charging it when they recover really low such that the camera is below the height of the stage (ie cant see the shadow move). Release when they'd see it, hopefully you get a hit on a buffered ledge option.

 

[smashgod75]

Okay everybody! Incoming wall of text, but probably worth your time!

I have been lurking pretty hard for the past few months (like a ninja amirite :^] ) and It's been pretty quite. Not a lot of new discoveries . I came across some very interesting things that to my knowledge have not been discussed. So I would like to share my findings and give you some videos to go with it.

I have been messing around with some more uses for shadow sneak. IIRC some of the good stuff was patched out like SS while shielding or running with SS. I don't have my capture card with me right now so these videos are imported right from my WiiU to YouTube. So I will explain how to do the techs below. Hopefully someday I can do a proper video of my findings.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a_JZ3GKwnM

Wall Cling Shadow Sneak(better name soon)
Because SS stops your running animation when you are going of the ledge you can hold back and wall cling. When you let go of the B button (or your special button) he will activate his shadow sneak. It's pretty versatile because you can now put a strong hit box in front of the ledge that can yield you early KO's which is something that can be hard for Greninja. The cool thing about this is you have quite a few options when your clinging the wall.

-If your SS is moving toward the stage you will kick in place.
-If your SS is moving away from the stage you can catch someone unsuspectingly way out while still keeping your jump.
**Both of the two from above can jump off the wall for more height or to cover the right space to connect with SS and still keep your double jump**
-If you are holding SS towards the stage and you see them recovering high, you can jump over the ledge and SS back on stage retaining the charge distance. You could potentially catch them getting on stage.

The motions are pretty simple and will take no more than 30-60 mins training to get the hang of it. The motions are straight forward but the timing and knowing when to release the SS is the tricky part. I just figured this out tonight after just labbing around a few times this week.

**Remember it has to be a stage you can wall cling on. you can do similar moves on some stages but Duck Hunt and Some of the Omega stages are optimal for this technique. **

Instructions:
- Run towards the ledge
- Choose what direction you want to go with SS:
* If towards the stage start holding as soon as you fall off the ledge and keep holding.
* If away from the stage start your SS right BEFORE you leave the stage. As you fall off the ledge immediately hold back to cling the wall.
* The Wall cling can be delayed a bit if you want to drop down lower, but that depends on the situation or opponent.
- Jump if needed and let go of the B(special) button. I suggest assigning a shoulder button to jump so you can be fast.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7wJcGUEqPk

Sliding Shadow Sneak (maybe needs a better name idk lol)

This may have been related to the patch out of the running SS. I'm not quite sure, but this is pretty simple and I think it may be pretty useful when done right. SS hits surprisingly hard but we don't really have any true kill confirms outside of Dair > SS at 120%-ish.

How this works is when your initial dash animation starts you immediately start your SS in the opposite direction. Doing this gives Greninja a unique sliding animation that is different than his regular turn around. And it goes noticeably far. It is important that you hold the SS or a second or else he wont slide. This is a good mind game / bait tool or a whiff punish. Another great thing is you gain more distance coming back so you can start at a safer distance. Most of the time you will be running away and slingshoting back to kick them in the face. Although if you have next level mind games you can potentially use this as a cross up. This can also utilize the "back stab" AT to make sure you hit with the back kick that does more damage and knock back.

I made a little demo video of me playing around with some of this stuff on a level 3 CPU. The video is not meant to show my skill, or lack thereof. Only as a technical exhibition to remove it out of the vacuum or training mode. I by no means have this stuff mastered, and I am definitely not the best Greninja out there. If anything I am an obsessive lab rat who likes shadow sneak too much lol. I finally figured out how to do it and explain it today and I was excited to share this with everyone and see how far we can take it. and breath some new life in the thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Lb5rnh7_Q

A few other things I have notice that may be worth mentioning about Shadow Sneak in general that I haven't come across in the forums:

-You can fall though a platform while charging SS. this causes the shadow to jump right to its destination because if you or on a platform it stops at the edge, but then you are in the air it moves freely. That may lend for a sneaky side B that is hard to predict.

- I have no idea how I did this and I have only done it 2 or 3 times, but I canceled a SS with a ledge trump. I have no Idea if this is even worth using or not but I though I would share. I think its in one of my recorded matches. If I can find it I'll share it.

Thanks so much for reading! Please let me know if this stuff was known so that I don't take someone else's credit. I checked the original post and didn't see it. I think this could bring some much needed power to our character.

STAY FROGGY

I've noticed that when you do a sliding SS and just go softly in the other direction Greninja won't turnaround but still perform his shadow sneal in the opposite way

 

[Epok]

I like SS to punish SH approachs or dashgrabs. Disappear like a spotdodge -> punish.

Your platform sneak is something i use! I find standing at the edge of the plat helps, since your shadow stays beneath you its nice.

Another sneaky SS trick is to start charging it when they recover really low such that the camera is below the height of the stage (ie cant see the shadow move). Release when they'd see it, hopefully you get a hit on a buffered ledge option.

That's a really smart idea about using the camera angle to hide your SS. I try to use it either in the air because their movement options are limited, or in a quick burst when I think people forget that move exists lol.

I've noticed that when you do a sliding SS and just go softly in the other direction Greninja won't turnaround but still perform his shadow sneal in the opposite way

I'm gonna have to try that. I can't quite mentally visualize what you're thinking but I'm sure I will know it when I see it.

I have also noticed that the platform cancelled SS can make that move safe on shield because of how he bounces away after he kicks. but its are to place the hitbox because of how he moves depending on your opponents position.

 

[free33]

I think I found greninja' most useless hitbox. Basically greninja has a hitbox near his head at the very end of Uair, allowing you to hit grounded opponents with essentially a landing Uair, leading to some solid confirms. The hit box however, is slow and tiny. Teeny tiny. You can get things like Fair and Uair kill confirms, footstool locks, Uair spike, etc. have fun. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8t9dT8LDGegLUVuWWJraDhIRkU?usp=sharing