My team sucks mk 3

[JOE!]

Allrighty then, this is my first shot at competitive battling and I essentially slapped this together and have surprisingly won much more than I've lost on PO, but I cant shake the fact that there's something off about this set-up, so I'll let the pros tear it up..

Cloyster @King's Rock/Focus Sash/Razor Claw

Skill Link / Adamant
144 Hp / 232 Atk / 132 Spe
Shell Break
Icicle Spear
Rock Blast
Ice Shard/Shell Blade

After toying around with Abagoura, etc, I've found that Cloyster has one edge over him: reliable Ice STAB. It should be a no-brainer as to why that is so great. I have him as a lead as it starts the wave of offense off niceley as either their lead goes down (as does usually their switch, or at least their "wall" becomes neutered), and he has enough power anyways to take down common taunters, then switch out to try and shell-sweep again.

Gengar @ BrightPowder
Levitate / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Shadowball
Thunderbolt
HP: Fire
Focus Blast

Changed him from a sub-gar to an all-out offensive build. I found I rarely got the chance to sub up while playing, so I opted out for Bright powder and more SE coverage in Tbolt. The powder is actually very lulz when dealing with heavy-hitting moves that'd normally 1shot Gengar, allowing him to live that much longer and even kill the threat.

Scizor @ Choice Band
Technician / Adamant
248 HP / 252 ATK / 8 Spe
U-Turn
Bullet Punch
Superpower
Pursuit

CB Scizor, it works

Landlos @ Life Orb
Encourage / Hasty
176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Earth Power
Grass Knot
U-turn
Rock Slide

This guy is great. Awesome speed, great mixed hitting, great typing, etc, etc...

Only issue for me is that he seems to be revenged easily...

Latios @ Choice Specs
Levitate / Timid
4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Draco Meteor
Surf
HP: Fire
Ice Beam

This thing hits like a truck, however I think I may want to make him scarfed as opposed to spec'd...

Blaziken @ Leftovers
Speed Boost / Adamant
4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Blaze Kick
High jump Kick
Protect
Swords Dance

Mid-to late game sweeper. This guy is so awesome once you squeee in a swords dance and protect an attack, gaurenteeing you outpace pretty much everything. Lefties are there to heal residual damage from stuff that may have hit.



Threats: Rain teams (specifically Poli and Kingdra)

I cant seem to deal with these two reliably....what should I change?




[collapse=past members]

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Levitate / Sassy
252 HP / 84 ATK / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Hypnosis
HP: Ice
Gyro Ball
Stealth Rock

I prefer Gyro Ball to payback as it seems to do more damage to the things you norally switch Zong into... but that's just me *shrug*

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Levitate / Timid
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Dragon Pulse
Surf
Thunder
Trick

suggested by Mood4food

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Sand Stream / Jolly
4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 Spe
Stone Miss
Crunch
Pursuit
Superpower

Standard Scarftar, opted for Superpower due to darks and steels running amok.

Abagoura @ White Herb
Solid Rock / Naive
192 ATK / 64 SpA / 252 Spe
Stone Miss
Aqua Jet
Hydro Miss
SHELL SMASH

This thing is epic after it gets a shell smash in, completley counters drill mole in rain or sand, and can take quite a beating after sandstorm / screens.

[/collapse]


so yeah, i dont know wtf I'm doing, any help?

 

[Gates]

Well you're right, this team does suck.

Entry hazards would really help you here. I'd recommend you run Stealth Rock on Bronzong.

Archeos is just a terrible pokemon in general. You can remove him for, well, pretty much anything. I'd reccommend some sort of Gyarados. You could probably also replace Hihidaruma with ScarfTran.

ScarfTar seems out of place here. For starters, you're opening yourself up to a Doryuzu weakness, and yes he can sweep your entire team in the sand. You also have Life Orb Starmie with no means of recovery combined with something that will make it take an additional 6% damage per turn. This is usually not a smart thing to do. There are lots of other physical Scarf users though, so you can easily use one of them over TTar.

Speaking of Starmie, Lati@s has a comparable moveset with better typing and more bulk. TrickScarf Lati@s is still as good this gen as it was last gen, so you should definitely try it out unless you're absolutely sure that Starmie is the best fit for your team.

 

[mood4food77]

this team is pretty bad

first off, you're not beating a team with garchomp and doryuuzu on it unless you manage to get both on a switch into starmie who uses a respective SE attack

you really need a new make over with this team

with what you have, scizor is the only poke worthy of not changing

you should change bronzong to something like this:
Bronzong @ Leftovers / Lum Berry / Shed Shell
Levitate / Sassy
252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Stealth Rock
HP Ice
Payback
Earthquake / Hypnosis

Yes, this is the standard defensive set for 'zong from Gen IV, it will still work. With him being as a lead, he's going to lure out a lot of stuff, which is why shed shell can work great here (since really, after he puts up SR, his work is done). HP Ice is very important this gen, mostly because most of the MH pokes are weak to ice. Payback is for Ghost switch-ins and the final move depends on whether you want to spread Sleep around or gain more type coverage.

If you want to use Hihidaruma, change him to CS, he doesn't have the bulk, typing, nor speed to really pull off a CB set, at least with CS, he can deal a crap load of damage, replace Fire Punch with U-turn and you have a pretty decent scout. But in general, it's probably better to replace this with some sort of offensive sub poke (like heatran or even gengar)

as gates said, replace starmie with lati@s, they're stronger, bulkier, and have a better typing while having comparable movesets, CS lati@s is still annoying as hell

get rid of ttar, your team is incredibly weak to SS teams as it is, use Politoad as your team can make more use of rain than it could sun, preferably, specially bulky so you don't have to keep switching

Archeos sucks, remove it, just pick another poke here and work off that (you could use cloyster or something)

and lastly, scizor is fine, which would give you two revenge killers, but they hit at different spectrums which can be abused quite well

 

[JOE!]

re-formatted the team a bit to get around SS weakness...

Starmie is great, but I wanna stay OU (Lati@s is ubers, come on..), yet I dont know an alternative pick for it.

The Sea Turtle can really lay down some major havok after a good switch in (fire attack) to shell bash, which leaves him with +2 Atk, SpA, Spe, and White herb restores his bulkiness. Solid Rock ensures priority isnt an issue, especially mach punch. he then proceeds to wreck with Aqua jet which alone gets rid of nigh any threat the mole or shandera placed, and hydro pump can even make Garchomp get a good bruise.


*shrug*

 

[The Real Gamer]

Idk if this was by design but your team has some pretty epic synergy going on... Just type wise you have pretty much all of your bases covered with at LEAST 2 Pokemon. The only hole I see is your turtle's weakness to Electric, but you still have T-Tar to help with that.

 

[mood4food77]

they're not uber on any ladder, might as well use them, they're also walled pretty hard by nattorei

the sea turtle is alright, but i dont' think he outspeeds a doryuuzu even after a shell smash and after a shell smash, it proceeds to get OHKO'd by earthquake

don't use gengar as a lead, he's way more effective as a substitute sweeper, use the bronzong set i gave you for the lead, you really don't need the dual screens

really, the only to stop yourself from having a weakness to doryuuzu is to get rid of ttar and put in politoad/golduck/ninetails/abomasnow

 

[JOE!]

Mood, Aqua Jet >>> Dory

also, should I just re-swap Gengar and Bronz, making gengar my second special sweeper?

 

[mood4food77]

so?

you're still not OHKOing him with it without a boost, and no one in their right mind would switch dory into a water poke unless he's the only poke left

you're only revenge killing a weakened doryuuzu and if he carries a balloon, it's not very likely that he's not going to be

to make it even worse, a +2 aqua jet doesn't even get a guaranteed OHKO on him (91.4%-108%), while his regular earthquake deals 74.7% to 88.6%, which is easily a OHKO after a SD

you need to rid the match of sand to really stop a doryuuzu sweep cause you're relying on something that has less than a 50% chance to OHKO dory at +2 and then have scizor finish him off

actually, scizor does a better job at dealing with dory than your sea turtle does, as long as dory doesn't have a boost, scizor ***** it with super power

 

[JOE!]

after rocks (switched to your Zong), is the margin any better?

also, considering switching Starmie for Latias...but cant decide on a set

 

[mood4food77]

it's a lot tougher to get rocks up this gen because of all the MH users running around

it's much easier to just use politoad over ttar, give your turtle swift swim

it gives you a more reliable counter to dory

for latias:

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Levitate / Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Dragon Pulse
Surf
Thunder
Trick

this is also assuming you go politoad over ttar

 

[Gates]

after rocks (switched to your Zong), is the margin any better?

For killing Dory? No. Dory takes 3% from SR, which is almost trivial.

also, considering switching Starmie for Latias...but cant decide on a set

TrickScarf is good. Mood4Food's set is fine, but if you're not using Politoed you should run HP Fire over Thunder.

And if you really insist on using TTar, why not use his Dream World ability? It's not useful but it doesn't hurt your team like Sand Stream does.

 

[mood4food77]

ttar is so much worse without SS, he loses so much bulk

 

[Gates]

ScarfTar's bulk isn't needed anyway.

 

[mood4food77]

but it helps so much it's not even funny

without SS, ttar is 2HKO'd by a 0 EV neutral natured Politoad's Boil Over
with SS, he's 3-4HKO'd by the same move

it just allows a lot more switch-ins

 

[JOE!]

IDK, i just feel more comfortable with TTar there as it utterly counters Shandera... but looking at it, rain would be nice for Bronzong and Scizor...

what'd be a good set for Poli?

 

[Circa]

Just run Abomasnow. It's like a hundred times sexier. And he's got like Wood Hammer and Earthquake and Blizzard and stuff.

Plus he keeps rain teams from ****ing your junk. Politoed may help out your own rain abusers, but if your team can't handle opposing rain teams (which I'm not sure if it can right now) then the point is moot. And Abagoura isn't saving the day if they bring in a Ludicolo.

Note that Abomasnow is really just something you can experiment with that will probably suck more than what you have now, but is at least worth trying. I do realize that it hurts everything on your team (if you changed Abagoura to Cloyster then it wouldn't, but whatevs), but it also hurts pretty much everything on the opposing team as well. Trade-off.

Specs Politoed is probably the best Politoed set for the current version of your team, I think. I can't see you really requiring a defensive pivot, and you really don't need another scarf user either. And the only other option I can think of is an anti-weather set, but I'm not sure how good that will be for you.

 

[JOE!]

hmm, an issue I've been coming upon is stall-jirachis and lead machamps...

Hypnosis is NOT reliable at all for machamp neutering, and if it works they all carry status berries...

switch anythign besides Gengar in, they get NAILED and confused, and then he has payback to break though gengar's subs....

Jirachi i cannot take out unless ive got a rampaging sea turtle on the loose

it also has some trouble vs Blaziken leads...

 

[UltiMario]

You know what Pokemon you need?

Slowbro

Slowbro@Leftovers
Bold/[Own Tempo/Regeneration]
252HP/252Def/4SpD
Slack Off
Surf
Ice Beam/Psychic
Thunder Wave/Toxic

Would probably work best over Scizor or ScarfTar, probably ScarfTar because Slowbro would love to keep lefties.

Own Tempo is to deal with Machamp. Regeneration is if you think you can deal with him another way. Goruugu might be down your alley if you'd like Regeneration instead, you'd have to run a 30 Spe IV though to make sure you're underspeeding Machamp (don't run Brave, the 30 Spe IV is slow enough).

Goruugu@Leftovers
Adamant/No Guard
252HP/252Atk/4Def
30 Spe IV
DynamicPunch
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Toxic/Shadow Punch/Substitute

Also, not a fan of CB Scizor, but if it works, then that's fine.

Also Abagoura sucks Cloyster is better LOLOLOLOLOL and you know it's true.

 

[JOE!]

Cloyster doesnt have the staying power to pull off a shell smash sweep, solid rock + better mixed defenses means that Abo has a bit more insurance lets say to switch in to do the break, and then even though his speed is alot lower, his special and base attack is higher, and when doubled (with Aqua jet to cover the speed hole) he can be a real force to tangle with, that and hydro pump allows for better mix, and can even do like, 70% to garchomp, who is then either taken down with another or just aqua jet

 

[UltiMario]

Cloyster actually outspeeds things, has better physical defense regardless of solid rock (lol at only 1/4 damage reduction) and doesn't need to go mixed because between Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and Shell Blade, you outspeed the entire game and tear it to pieces :3

Only thing Cloyster has issues with is SR

 

[Moozle]

Only thing Cloyster has issues with is SR

And Metagross. But really JOE! you should try Cloyster. Abagoura is just so slow. It's too bad that explosion isn't really good anymore.

 

[Fuelbi]

Ehhh, replace the turtle with Cloyster and replace Scizor with something that has Mach Punch like Breloom or Roobushin.

 

[JOE!]

can cloyster handle the drill mole?

 

[Fuelbi]

I'm pretty sure it can, seeing as it doesn't have a weakness to ground types and it can be a pain to KO once it gets one or two Shell Smashes (that's what it's called right?) in

 

[UltiMario]

It doesn't outspeed it or anything, but base 180 Defense and only a weakness to Rock Slide means it can probably take one hit and murder it.

 

[Fuelbi]

Wow really? What if you invest in your Defense and put a Defense beneficial Nature?

 

[JOE!]

yah, thats one of the main reasons I have the turtle, aqua jet from him can simply ruin the Mole...


but, the mole is is also neutral vs Ice, so i dunno if stab Ice spear could kill it after the boost...

Cloyster also doesnt get +SpD from sand storm, but smeh (also only Shell Blade works in rain, whereas Abo works great in either rain or sand)

 

[Fuelbi]

Yeah, but it's not like anything else on your team benefits from having sand in play doesn't it?

 

[UltiMario]

You don't have sand, you have Slowbro over TTar now, remember? :3

 

[Terywj [태리]]

yah, thats one of the main reasons I have the turtle, aqua jet from him can simply ruin the Mole...

I thought Choice Band Azumarril couldn't OHKO back with Aqua Jet? And unless I was completely unaware of it, I'm sure Abagura doesn't have base 150 Attack.

Edit - I see where the Defense and Solid Rock comes in handy though. But without a reliable recovery option, 2HKO'ing Doryuuzu or something?

 

[JOE!]

did some calcs just now for Cloyster and Abu vs Doryuzu... (after Shell break, of course)

Abu using Aqua Jet on Dory with the seemingly standard 4 HP evs and no def: 91.7-108.3% damage. with rocks it's more like 94.7-111.3%.

That should KO him more often than not, and most importantly it IGNORES SAND THROW because it's priority, something Cloyster cannot do.

Cloyster using Icicle Spear on same set-up: 150.6-179.6%, lol rocks

This definatley will ruin Dory, but the problem is that Cloyster cant outspeed dory in a SS, which is the only time a Dory would be popping out unless it's the only one left, in which case his threat isnt that big.

Which brings us to the next part, which one can survive the dory encounter?

my Abu hit by EQ (SE with Solid Rock): 74.7-88.6%

Cloyster hit by Rock Slide (SE) : takes 41.3-48.7%


So it appears that Cloyster may be better suited to the task, but at the same time he most likley WILL be nailed by dory, as well as have to worry about SR and SS redsidual damage, whereas Abu can take out Dory 1st, not worry as much andout SR and actually get a SpD buff from SS...

I also have no def or HP EV's in my Abu unlike this cloyster build which has
120 HP / 252 ATTK / 4 DEF / 132 SPE



upon messing aroud a bit more, i decided to try making my Abu a phys sweeper, replacing Hydro Pump with EQ:

Adamant with 252 attk's boosted Aqua jet does 106.1-124.9% to Dory, and should allways outspeed it. Also lols at Shanderra to boot.

 

[UltiMario]

Cloyster still lols and Shandy

But yeah, you might have Aqua Jet, but we still tank the hit and KO anyways.

 

[JOE!]

the problem is, after he tanks the hit (which Abu wont even have to do), something will just come in and kill cloyster anyways, whereas the turtle can keep on truckin'

 

[UltiMario]

Only priority can outspeed Cloyster, and almost everything in the game is OHKO'd by it.

Explain.

 

[JOE!]

scizor, mach punch, extreme speed, etc, etc...

theres more priority out there thats harmful to Cloyster, that the turtle can take (better), as well as dish out his own priority

 

[kirbyraeg]

cloyster and the turtle are both neutral to bp. they're also both weak to mach punch/vacuum wave, and cloyster has higher base def/lower base hp. Cloyster resists aqua jet while the turtle is neutral. both also x4 resist ice shard.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

cloyster and the turtle are both neutral to bp. they're also both weak to mach punch/vacuum wave, and cloyster has higher base def/lower base hp. Cloyster resists aqua jet while the turtle is neutral. both also x4 resist ice shard.

Abagura only x2 resists Ice Shard, since Rock-types take neutral damage from Ice-types.

 

[mood4food77]

the turtle sucks

you do realize that even in rain, he only hits 348 speed, the same as +natured, max speed Aianto

you know how bad that is? especially when water/rock is actually a worse typing that water/ice (the types they react to are almost identical but water/ice isn't 4x weak to grass and 4x resists ice)

the turtle sucks, cloyster is better defensively and having skill link makes it a friggen beast, OHKOing almost everything

oh, and cloyster laughs at substitute abusers

 

[JOE!]

damnit, switched to politoed and slowbro over Scizor/TTar, and now i havent seen a blaziken or machamp since, and my team gets wrecked by opposing rain teams....

 

[mood4food77]

i would've kept scizor and put slowbro in over gengar or the turtle, the turtle is too slow and doesn't resist water

kingdra over gengar would give you an amazing rain dance sweeper, but you need something to deal with nattorei as it walls both your dragons

something like shandera would do good

also, i suggest making your lead azelf or something, azelf something like:

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Levitate / Timid
252 Spe / 252 SpA / 6 Atk
Stealth Rock
U-turn
HP Ice
Thunderbolt

You can hit MH users with HP Ice and outrun most of them naturally, U-turn out for scouting, and even get SR up against slower leads, T-bolt is there for coverage

You could also use aerodactyl in that spot too, just run

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Pressure / Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Stealth Rock
Taunt
Earthquake
Rock Slide / Stone Edge

it still gets the job done and can deal some damage to MH users, heck you could run aerial ace for Erufuun