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rmusgrave

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 15, 2002
Messages
2,108
Location
Perth, Western Australia
I'm far from being above other people's criticisms, so I thought I should post a topic like this too.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jAtnkaHZ5UY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Dq7Z0T2QzI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Eru5Iz-SAo

Those 3 are a set against one of Aus' best players, although he doesn't normally play Falco. The tournament before this one, he used Falco to take me out, so I'm happy with the result here. Down to the wire.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_k3fesjeMJA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v8Awd9HZ9Pc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BqSCIdrm_1w
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ppDhf2WxF6M

These are the teams finals of the tournament. Me and Caotic against 2 brothers from Queensland. I played Yoshi in the 2nd and 4th matches, which are not on any of the neutrals.


Ok, any advice/comments? I'm quite happy to take advice for my Fox too, so if you want to go right ahead.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: Bringer, that up air to downsmash KO on Shaz's first life was brilliant.

Okay, I shouldn't even be up now, so I'll drop my comments on these later.

Wow, it's really five in the morning. I suck.
 

YOSHIDO

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
927
Location
Waukegan, IL
good match bringer. But the falco's game was off. Im not saying he sucks or anything. But expect to see alot more short hop lasers and pillars. You wont see dash attacks. they stay laserin. I will try spamin the roll more when they start shootin. On the last stock. Expect falco's to play like that all the time. Good job though. Was that the finals?
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: Whoo! Okay, I gotz my creme soda in one hand and YouTube in the other. Let's rock!

Match #1

00:12 - As soon as I saw the early forward air, I figured you'd wanted to sneak a launcher in. Up air was a good choice (I would have done neutral, only because I like the wider range horizontally), but I think DJCing it slowed you down a bit and kept you just a few spaces upwards of where you might have wanted to hit. It might have hit without DJCing it and you wouldn't have risked getting crouched into shine into death without your jump to save ya.

00:20 - Flawless.

00:43 - Dude, I wanted to see death here, but I realized as soon as you started the grab that it was Falco and not Fox. Since Falco is heavier and falls a lil faster, perhaps instead of going for a second DJC up air under 50%, you could try and down angled forward tilt or maybe even a really really quick DJC neutral? While missing wasn't really punishable, especially since Shaz didn't tech, you might have been able to do at least a little more damage, which is always a good thing against Falco.

00:46 - <3

00:58 - Grrr @ this. Falco is like Marth and Sheik in the sense that once they get you in shield while you're on a platform above them, they can really pile the mental pressure on. They'll wait for the roll, but the decision you made here wasn't terrible, I don't think. Had you rolled forward, he could have neutral'd/forward aerial'd into DJ spike and then edgeguarded with shine or more down aerials. Rolling back at this percentage wasn't a bad idea, but perhaps try to wait them out with lightshielding (especially since its hard for the opponent to tell whether or not you're doing it) or even releasing your shield and interrupting the breakout animation with a spotdodge or a supershield attempt, should they immediately try to attack you. Falco isn't like Marth; he has to jump to hit you here, so even though he's quick, you have a tiny bit of time to do some guesswork.

01:03 - Holy ****ing mother of pearl, that was a good parry. Clutch downsmash, mang.

01:24 - Duuuuuuude, you landed behind him with the back aerial, but he down air'd you out of shield. Try jabbing next time. Jabs come out just as fast as the dodge and will at least trade with Falco's down air from behind. The chance is there of beating his down air if you land quickly enough from the aerial, but it's slim. Even still, I think maybe jabs here would have helped.

01:44 - Forward tilts are go. Unfortunately, it looks like you sometimes have the same problem I do of trying to DJC so quickly that you end up DJ landing. It stinks...I'm still trying to work a way around it or to at least get myself in the habit of slowing down my DJ attempts. If you figure out a way to stop this, let me know, son!

01:54 - Shaz was baiting this forward smash all match up to this point, it seems. Everytime you DJ'd from the ledge, you resisted wavelanding back on and he tried to forward smash you everytime (I probably would have fallen for it the first time, depending on my percentage), thinking you would (at least this is what I can gather). It looked like a pretty solid habit he had, so second guessing yourself on something like this may be a bad thing. I don't think there's anything you could have done out of a waveland even if you had seen the forward smash coming (which I'll assume you did) that would have hit him in time to stop or trade with the attack.

02:06 - Wow. You seemed a little angry here. Was I right, or was it you just trying to get the KO quickly? It's all good, though. Falco deserves to die a painful death. One thing I would recommend, though, is that the smash spam you started at the beginning of this stock would be best put to use with wavedashes and empty short hop lead-ins. If Falco gets a jump over your smash and drillshines to start a combo and you don't crouch, it's at least a free 20%, and that's 19% too much against Falco. All things considered, though, you had a comfortable stock lead and didn't take too much damage after the downsmash, so it worked out.

03:05 - You have a very interesting approach to the laser spam here, but it makes me wonder how well it would have worked if Shaz had whored shielding more in between your appraoches. Regardless, you did well here by showing lots of patience and thought. If you can, though, practice crouch powershielding lasers with Yoshi. It helps out, even if just a little, and crouching while wavedashing out of the powershield can lead to some fun times.

Awesome match overall. I liked the patience you showed and you really handled Falco's pressure game well by using platforms and not being afraid to go in the air. I'll get on match two in a bit. Time for bed.
 

rmusgrave

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 15, 2002
Messages
2,108
Location
Perth, Western Australia
Thanks Shiri!

00:58 was my attempt at buffering the z-shield. I have notorious bad luck when trying to light shield outright. But, you are right, lightshield would've been the better option.

1:54 I can't remember if I expected the f-smash, but I know I tried to shield but the waveland was too laggy. If I had shielded the shieldgrab would've done wonders, but yeah, it didn't.

2:06 Angry lol. I was trying to get the KO quickly, mainly because I've found if I don't take my opportunities at my low % then I'll lose the ability for the early KO. I remember facing JD in Europe, where I lost every game, even though it was down to the last stock. I would always manage to land a smash or something at 70% or so and kill him, but I could only ever do it at low %.

Again, thanks for the your thoughts Shiri ^_^

*Awaits more*

Oh, and thanks Yoshido too. I know Shaz' game wasn't very solid that day, but I'm still quite happy to take the victory =P
 

yoshiiscool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
352
Location
Murfreesboro, TN (east Pa during summer)
I'm not gonna go into huge detail about a certain match like Shiri, (although it's prolly more helpful and easier to read) but I'll try my best to give some criticism.


Well, the first thing I saw that you were doing wrong IMO was the edgeguarding. Some of the edgeguarding attempts really didn't look thought out at all, and were just half-***** attempts at getting a quick kill, IE beginning of match 3 instead of waiting to see his movements you downsmashed, while waiting and d-tilt to instant edgehog would've been sufficient or u-airing/grabbing after he went too high and was coming back down. Just try not to act before you think, and remember that sometimes it's the simple things that count.

I was expecting alooot more grabs and u-smashes. I'm pretty sure we all know that Yoshi's head is invulnerable during the u-smash, which helps alot with a Falco that likes to use predictable d-air lead-ins, and also leads to some good juggles. Grabs aren't as hard as many people think on a Falco. He's really easy to techchase and all of his smashes are laggy enough to shield grab, which is why I'm questioning why you would roll sometimes after shielding a d-smash instead of grabbing for some comboing. Speaking of grabbing fast fallers too, I've noticed that u-throwing leads to d-smashes for a huuuuge percentage range, so maybe a new KO tactic?

Random things I noticed:
- you rarely comboed the falco, but when you did it was very impressive and fun to watch, so maybe try and set up more for your juggles
- I don't like how often you use the b-air, it can leave you open in alot of situations (coming down with a B-air isn't really a good idea IMO, it's too easy to outrange), and being airborne in general vs a falco can be a bad thing. Also you seemed to DJC alot in mid-air without thinking of the consequences so luckily your opponent wasn't good enough to capitalize off of the openings you left, this time.
- Hooray for f and d-smash
- Your ECE were slow! And your eggs in general weren't used to their full potential (I'm not really an egg guy myself unless it's ECE, then I <3 them)
- Every Yoshi would be 10x better with a Shiri-like jabbing game xD

Don't you love playing Falcos? I'm supposed to go and play Forward this weekend, so I may have more to say about these vids after then.

Anyways, keep up the goodness, and I bow down to you Oh King of English-speaking Yoshis, Bringer.

Peace, and btw it feels good to be back after a long... "vacation" xD
 

Hal-Yur-Azn-Pal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
87
Location
Hamilton, Canada
Bringer and his fancy moves. :)

I liked all the wavelanding stuff you did on the platforms on battlefeild. That's all I can say for now, I have to go to sleep.

But yeah your Yoshi is beastin'
 

PlayaFritz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
175
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Yes, very nice Yoshi, I really think it is great, the Falco wan't horrible, but all the falco's I play pile on so many more lasers
 

shazbot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
88
Location
Geneva, IL
1:48 on the first video - such a pretty egg.....yeah that's all i got

2nd vid 1:13 - holy crap that one was good too. Bringer you have an intelligent egg game, it just seems like you have them pre planned and know when to use or not use the egg.
 

Eltrotraw

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
254
Location
Being alonesomeness in Long Beach, CA.
I left some of my thoughts on comments on the videos, but eh...

It either seemed you started slipping by the middle of the second match of the first set, you were trying a new approach, or he caught on to your playstyle by that point.
 
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