My Main is Sonic, and I'm at my Limit

[TF4U-Speed]

Hey guys, Speed here. Just made this forum account after discovering the forums, and I have to say there is a lot of stuff here. So, that's cool.

Anyways, I figured I'd brush up on my Brawl skills before this local tournament at my school. Money's on the line, and I'd like to win (not only for my 3 dollars) because I'm considered the best.
Every Wednesday afterschool, my Computer Club hosts a corner with a Wii, a projector, a couple gamecube controllers, wii-motes, and Nun-chucks (Though, only one guy really uses that).
And every Wednesday, I pick up my Gamecube controller, select Sonic, and get to work. It's usually Free-For-All, 3 Stock, 4 Players, No Time Limit, on Final Destination. No items either, ever since I started coming we've banned items all together (that Final Smash, though..).

Regardless, I always win. It's not that everyone sucks, there are a few good players, but when it comes down to it I've noticed something. I just have a better reaction time. This should probably be said by someone else, since it comes off as cocky/arrogant (like Sonic) but it's really it. I haven't played Brawl at home since 2010, the year it came out. I used to play everyday, and I even trained. To train, I used to take Sonic into Training Mode, fight 3 other Sonic characters (later Fox, or Falco, or Captain Falcon, or Meta Knight), and slow down the time to a fraction of a second. Maybe 1/4.
In my mind, I thought that if I could fight in a slower rate, it'd eventually make me faster when we got to normal speed because I'd get used to fighting with slowed actions. So the "change' in speed would result in me adjusting faster, or something. Kind of like the hyperbolic time chamber, it was stupid.

Regardless, it worked for me. I started to notice the start of character animations, which helped me anticipate attacks quicker. Eventually I just stopped playing for a few years, until my High School got me back into it. I still only play on Wednesdays, but upon hearing about this local Tourney, I decided to bust out my old Wii, and practice with my brother.

Long story short, I'm losing. Badly.
It's not that I'm bad, or that my brother is really good. I taught him everything he knows how to do in Brawl, and I'm usually better. But he's gotten faster, so to speak. His reaction time looks to be on par with mine, or slightly slower.
But regardless, he still uses Pikachu and we played 11 games, tournament rules, Final Destination,
And I lost 10 of them.
I noticed that, in comparison, Pikachu has less "lag time" between moves. As in, he uses his C stick to perform a quick Side-A smash. Compared to Sonic's, his is nearly instant. The window of opportunity to stop that attack is so small, in fact that it makes Sonic's punch mediocre (more so than it already is). I can notice the difference in speed, and it's getting to be on my nerves. His Down-A Smash "pulls" you in, and we've used ours both in an instant, and his would always interrupt mine, and not the other way around.
His Up-Smash is ridiculous too. Same advantage over Sonic's, it takes less time to perform, and you aren't nearly as open when it ends.

Maybe it's a bad match up, I'm not complaining. I'm just almost frustrated. I play at my best, perfect guards, spot-dodging, any feasible combo I can pull off with Sonic (there aren't many),
But I just couldn't stand on level. Fast reaction time isn't helping me when Pikachu can attack a smidge more swiftly. My only hits were coming from my light attacks, and my standard A-A-A combo. Other than sneaking in a grab, which is hell to do with Pikachu's smashes and abilities, including his ranged B,

I feel like I've pushed Sonic to his limits, and I don't know what to do.

Please, I would really like someone's advice. Also, please refrain from advising me to switch characters. Above any, Sonic is my absolute favorite, and I've used him for years. I don't want to cop out, so to speak, since I'm iconic for being that one guy to use Sonic competitively. I want to compete with Sonic, and it's not the character that wins the match, it's the player. But as well as I think I play, I'm starting to feel Sonic's limits choking me.

Somebody, preferably people well versed with Sonic, I'd like some help.
Thanks for reading.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

Will your school allow you to use project m? Cause the balancing in that game is 10x better and you get to go past your limits (plus 2 new characters yay) but if you can't, I'm not sure what you can do bud, sorry if I didn't help
((Ps I play project m at school on Fridays, every one loves it better than brawl and there's casuals mixed with pros))

 

[DeLux]

That's probably not a very solid response for the questioning being asked. "How do I get better at X game?" "See if they'll play Y game."

But if you're looking for advice on how to improve with Sonic specifically, perhaps try the Sonic forums and reading there?

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

That's probably not a very solid response for the questioning being asked. "How do I get better at X game?" "See if they'll play Y game."

But if you're looking for advice on how to improve with Sonic specifically, perhaps try the Sonic forums and reading there?

Yea I'm sorry, I just got on the brawl forum for the first time and I wanted to help out, but the problem is I don't play brawl that much

 

[Kvar]

Hey there, as a Sonic main since Brawl and have mained him through Project M up to Smash for the 3DS (And probably the Wii U version too), I might be able to help you out.

Some of the problem is the match up. Sonic is more of an "all in your face" type of character while Pikachu is a good "spacie" (he can spam the neutral b a lot). Pikachu's neutral B is a good counter to Sonic's Side-B and Down-B as it stops Sonic when he gets hit by it. You make the point of saying that Pikachu's animations are quicker than Sonic's which is completely true which is also some of the problem. (Sorry if this offends you in any sort of way) The match up is part of the problem, but some of it could be your way of thinking too.

What I mean is, you always expect yourself to win, in a perfect world it would awesome if you could win every game you played, but Smash Bros is a game that won't let that happen. You're bound to lose a game or two, hell maybe even up to 11 like you did. You just have to learn how to lose and laugh it off and learn from your mistakes. Record some of your matches and just watch it over, and just criticize yourself on what you could have done. As you play the same person over and over again you start to learn their patterns and habits. You may also find out new effective strategies as you begin to play the person or character over and over again.

I hope you don't take this as personally as I intended it to be, but I apologize if so. I hope this helps out and if you have more questions feel free to reply back or hit me up with PMs.

 

[TF4U-Speed]

This is a pretty late response on my part, but thank you foir the advice, everyone!

And Kvar, it doesn't offend me at all, I understand where you're coming from! It's not that I expect to win every match because I'm the one playing, but that I expect myself to be able to play past the limitations of the character(s). In Brawl, or any smash game, every character can KO one another. Every character can do damage, dodge, and while few have poor recovery abilities, it's possible.

The reason I ask this is because I just want general advice for Sonic, something I may not have. I know Sonic is entirely "Up close, and personal" about fighting, but I wanted to hear something that could change the way I think about him (And most of the posts I've seen on the Sonic forums are either "Let's be honest, he's bad", "Check out these two combos", or "Brag about your wins with one of the lowest tier characters in the game").

Regardless, Skill will always decide whether or not you're able to use a certain character effectively, or not. This is something that'll always reign true, but it's something that can feel weird, at times. You want to believe that your ability to play the game can overcome whatever weaknesses you have, and whatever strengths your opponent possesses, but when it's something as simple as "Match-Up" making you feel otherwise, it gets to you.

And, I played in the tournament last Wednesday. There were 10 players, and since we didn't have a whole lot of time, we played with usual tournament rules (No items, 3 stock, Final Destination, No Pause,) but we tagged on a 4-minute time limit because we needed to get through a lot of matches in less than an hour.

As for how I did, I played through the tournament till the Semi Finals, when I versed my brother and his Pikachu. I'm fairly good with Lucas, and Ness, and I considered using them. But everyone knew our Mains, and they started chanting "Main vs Main, Main vs Main" since we're thought of as pretty good at Brawl. If I used Lucas or Ness, I would have had an easier time during the fight for the simple fact that their Down-B's counter Pikachu's ranged advantage, which I still possessed with a variety of Specials.

Regardless, I couldn't help wanting to put on a show. And that I did.
For the first stock, it was a struggle. Our match was unlike the other matches, because it seemed so "quick". It wasn't that we KO'd each other quickly, it was just how we moved our characters. Every attack we threw at each other, we had dodged to the best of our abilities. One slip up, and either of us knew that the other would abuse it to their fullest, getting an advantage. We didn't give each other any room for error, and our percentages climbed with one another. It was a small number game, where every percentage landed on your opponent was a small victory in itself. 0-15, 16-18, 28-26, going on until 45-53, 63-59, 77-78, 84-85, our percentages rose slowly enough to remain in the span of a minute, but they never gained more than one another. Eventually, we climbed to over 130 in our first life in nearly 2 minutes, from where I landed a few A-A-A combos to get him up to 160, but he dragged me into his Down-A spin and that was the end of my first life. Everybody went crazy, some of them saying that I had no chance, but as soon as I spawned in I caught him mid-Quick Attack with my aerial back kick, resetting his percentage to 0 with 2 stock to 2 stock.

The last two minutes of the match we used to the fullest. The same battle took place, small numbers game, but it looked fairly flashy. Our percentages rose to above 150 again, and with 15 seconds left I immediately dodged his Side Smash, trying to get in for my Down Smash, but I cursed myself because I knew I wouldn't be fast enough. Just as I entered my animation for it, he used his Down Smash, dragging me into it again for a KO. As much as we try to play "honorably", or at least as much as you can for SSBB, with 10 Seconds left and him being one attack away from Sudden Death, he wanted to win just as bad as I did, simply because it'd be a fantastic end to our match, for the winner. Unfortunately, Pikachu was just too agile with his jumps, Quick Attack, and my brother's skill. With 10 Seconds left, I tried to KO him with everything I could possibly do, but I couldn't catch him, and time ran out, resulting in his win.

Regardless, I wish there was some way to share the footage of that game. If I could, it would have been very enjoyable. Personally, I enjoy these types of games where the smallest of percentages mean the largest of differences to the players. But, yeah. I tried, and it was more than fun. Thanks for the posts, and for reading, guys!

 

[JayTheUnseen]

In my mind, I thought that if I could fight in a slower rate, it'd eventually make me faster when we got to normal speed because I'd get used to fighting with slowed actions. So the "change' in speed would result in me adjusting faster, or something. Kind of like the hyperbolic time chamber, it was stupid.

Not at all.Instruments are like that,even if it sounds odd.Before you can do something fast,you have to be able to do it well slow.
Just wanted to say that.

 

[Kvar]

Good job on the tournament and glad to hear you did very well.
Good luck in future events man, keep up the good work.

 

[Spak]

Hey guys, Speed here. Just made this forum account after discovering the forums, and I have to say there is a lot of stuff here. So, that's cool.

Anyways, I figured I'd brush up on my Brawl skills before this local tournament at my school. Money's on the line, and I'd like to win (not only for my 3 dollars) because I'm considered the best.
Every Wednesday afterschool, my Computer Club hosts a corner with a Wii, a projector, a couple gamecube controllers, wii-motes, and Nun-chucks (Though, only one guy really uses that).
And every Wednesday, I pick up my Gamecube controller, select Sonic, and get to work. It's usually Free-For-All, 3 Stock, 4 Players, No Time Limit, on Final Destination. No items either, ever since I started coming we've banned items all together (that Final Smash, though..).

Regardless, I always win. It's not that everyone sucks, there are a few good players, but when it comes down to it I've noticed something. I just have a better reaction time. This should probably be said by someone else, since it comes off as cocky/arrogant (like Sonic) but it's really it. I haven't played Brawl at home since 2010, the year it came out. I used to play everyday, and I even trained. To train, I used to take Sonic into Training Mode, fight 3 other Sonic characters (later Fox, or Falco, or Captain Falcon, or Meta Knight), and slow down the time to a fraction of a second. Maybe 1/4.
In my mind, I thought that if I could fight in a slower rate, it'd eventually make me faster when we got to normal speed because I'd get used to fighting with slowed actions. So the "change' in speed would result in me adjusting faster, or something. Kind of like the hyperbolic time chamber, it was stupid.

Regardless, it worked for me. I started to notice the start of character animations, which helped me anticipate attacks quicker. Eventually I just stopped playing for a few years, until my High School got me back into it. I still only play on Wednesdays, but upon hearing about this local Tourney, I decided to bust out my old Wii, and practice with my brother.

Long story short, I'm losing. Badly.
It's not that I'm bad, or that my brother is really good. I taught him everything he knows how to do in Brawl, and I'm usually better. But he's gotten faster, so to speak. His reaction time looks to be on par with mine, or slightly slower.
But regardless, he still uses Pikachu and we played 11 games, tournament rules, Final Destination,
And I lost 10 of them.
I noticed that, in comparison, Pikachu has less "lag time" between moves. As in, he uses his C stick to perform a quick Side-A smash. Compared to Sonic's, his is nearly instant. The window of opportunity to stop that attack is so small, in fact that it makes Sonic's punch mediocre (more so than it already is). I can notice the difference in speed, and it's getting to be on my nerves. His Down-A Smash "pulls" you in, and we've used ours both in an instant, and his would always interrupt mine, and not the other way around.
His Up-Smash is ridiculous too. Same advantage over Sonic's, it takes less time to perform, and you aren't nearly as open when it ends.

Maybe it's a bad match up, I'm not complaining. I'm just almost frustrated. I play at my best, perfect guards, spot-dodging, any feasible combo I can pull off with Sonic (there aren't many),
But I just couldn't stand on level. Fast reaction time isn't helping me when Pikachu can attack a smidge more swiftly. My only hits were coming from my light attacks, and my standard A-A-A combo. Other than sneaking in a grab, which is hell to do with Pikachu's smashes and abilities, including his ranged B,

I feel like I've pushed Sonic to his limits, and I don't know what to do.

Please, I would really like someone's advice. Also, please refrain from advising me to switch characters. Above any, Sonic is my absolute favorite, and I've used him for years. I don't want to cop out, so to speak, since I'm iconic for being that one guy to use Sonic competitively. I want to compete with Sonic, and it's not the character that wins the match, it's the player. But as well as I think I play, I'm starting to feel Sonic's limits choking me.

Somebody, preferably people well versed with Sonic, I'd like some help.
Thanks for reading.

Sorry for being nitpicky, but Brawl came out in 2008.

 

[GeZ]

"spacie"

 

[popsofctown]

Sonic's side smash isn't that popularly used at a higher level, if I'm not mistaken. Throw->aerial kill is preferred

 

[Bakasama]

Backair is really Sonic's only pure kill option that isn't horribly punishable. You should be going for back air almost exclusively at kill %, and if you don't already reverse aerial rush, you should in order to land raw backairs on approaches or for quick edgeguards. (Sprint toward them, flick away, jump and flick towards, now you're flying at them backward)

 

[eradication0]

looks like that "your too slow" jk. make some videos on youtube challenge some streamers thats always fun´. or stream for yourself