My First Tourney, Advanced Techniques, and Everything Else.

[Yyrd]

Hey Zamus Forums, It's me again!

I picked up Zamus 7 days ago today. A few things have happeed since I asked my first questions, and decided Zamus was right for me. My first tournament is coming up (December 5th), and I'm going to come right out and say it, I need your help.

These are my current troubles:

• Dealing With Projectile Spammers.
• Players Who Only Grab.
• Ice Climbers in General. (IC's are probably a good example of the first two)
• Pikachu Users.
• Using the pieces on stages like Battlefield. (Multiple platforms and pieces, they could get in the wrong hands)
• Knowing when to grab. (Ph00tbag told me to use them later in the match when players are getting used to your strategy. This helps, but I feel like I'm not getting players in the air enough because of this. Thus, I see many 200%-300% dmg marks. )
• What % will fully decayed lash K.O? (Medium weight will give me a rough estimate.)
• Is fsmash useful after two stuns, or should I try a juggle? (If not, when, if ever should I use fsmash?)
• Help with K.O. Combos that don't involve grabbing or lash. (dtilt and utilt get them into the air, but I find it hard to get to their side to land bair, or a two-hit fair. uair, on the other hand I can use easily.)
• Down+B as a recovery, an escape from sticky situations, and a spike. (I feel like I am using this far too often, and it's very predictable. Coming out of the second situation, getting grabbed is something that happens frequently.) When is the best time to use this great maneuver?

The following techniques I have observed, but cannot execute:

• Down+B Edge Hogging. (As in, Down+B on the edge, and regrabbing)
• Learning when to charge smashes. (Mind Games in general)
• Stunning on the edge, followed by a bair. (They seem to come out of stun before I can attempt this)

Paralyzer is good for a Dash Attack + Neutral A combo, but are there any other melee combos I can use efficiently? It feels like stunning is far too precitable, and something to confuse the opponent is what I need dearly. Furthermore, when should my strategy change from damaging, (juggling/stunning) to getting them into the air to K.O? (%'s for each weight class) K.O's have been hell for me, regardless of the character I use, and when I switched Plasma Whip from a K.O move to a spacer, it became even more difficult. (Overall, it made me improve alot, though.) The reason being, is probably because Plasma Whip is so darn quick and unexpected, while fair is predictable.

Well, that's just about everything. Again, thank you very much Snakee, CLAW, and Ph00tbag for your Youtube Videos, advice, and overall standing in the Smash Community. You were the ones who influenced my decision to acquire this great character that I currently main.

 

[James Sparrow]

Dealing With Projectile Spammers.

Most you can just crawl under (falco and wolf) or spam your own b move back at them (dedede) Otherwise learn to powershield and approach while doing so.

Players Who Only Grab.

Space your attacks so a grab will not hit you. Back air their shield as far away as possible and abuse moves like plasma whip that allow you to stay at a safe distance. paralyzer and dsmash are also great spacing tools.

Using the pieces on stages like Battlefield. (Multiple platforms and pieces, they could get in the wrong hands)

get as many of them in the air and bouncing as you can. keep ahold of one and use b moves to pressure your opponent. Do not allow him to pick your pieces up, and only throw the one you're hold at him if you hit him with a stun shot

Knowing when to grab. (Ph00tbag told me to use them later in the match when players are getting used to your strategy. This helps, but I feel like I'm not getting players in the air enough because of this. Thus, I see many 200%-300% dmg marks. )

Grab when you hit with a paralyzer or if you can predict your opponent's shielding habits or something like a tornado approach. You can use pivot grab to give your self some breathing room on the laggiest grab in the game (i think)

What % will fully decayed lash K.O? (Medium weight will give me a rough estimate.)

your plasma whip should never be fully diminished because you want to save it for kills. Fully diminished on a medium weight char I'd guess about 230% from the middle of most stages if they don't DI it right. I've had a wario live when I fresh whipped him at 180% from the side of the map that he was kocked back but he had really good DI with momentum cancelling.

Is fsmash useful after two stuns, or should I try a juggle? (If not, when, if ever should I use fsmash?)

You should probably never use fsmash. The only time I would see it as remotely useful is if for some reason you break someone's shield when they're at like 200+%. Then fully charge it to KO. After 2 stuns you have a number of options. If they're at low percent you should either go for an up b to continue the combo (this works best against medium and heavy chars) you could grab them (do this against characters you can grab release combo like metaknight), you could dsmash them again if they're a fast falling character like fox or falco, or you could aerial them (weak uair to bair is probably best for low percent). At high percent dsmash-dsmash-bair is probably the best, if they're already high enough you can just do 1 dsmash hop backwards and plasma whip.

Help with K.O. Combos that don't involve grabbing or lash. (dtilt and utilt get them into the air, but I find it hard to get to their side to land bair, or a two-hit fair. uair, on the other hand I can use easily.)

95% of my KO's involve dsmash or plasma whip with the exception of up air on light characters. up air is easy to hit from an edge if they approach you while you're on it.

Down+B as a recovery, an escape from sticky situations, and a spike. (I feel like I am using this far too often, and it's very predictable. Coming out of the second situation, getting grabbed is something that happens frequently.) When is the best time to use this great maneuver?

I do this to escape chain grabs like falco's or yoshi's grab release. I also use it if I whiff a pivot grab and expect them to try and punish me. You can mind game into the kick from the ledge by jumping up and uairing then floating back as if you were going for the edge again, then down b'ing and kicking. This also works with paralyzer instead of uair. Best time to use down b for a spike is if you can land a dsmash while edge gaurding someone. You down b right after the dsmash and then spike them as they pop out of the stun. Watch this vid to see example of this on my second kill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dahcb4qBGSI

Down+B Edge Hogging. (As in, Down+B on the edge, and regrabbing)

This is easy, just tap backwards and let yourself fall backwards at a 45 degree angle from the edge and then press down b back towards the stage.

Learning when to charge smashes. (Mind Games in general)

it's hard to explain mindgames like this, best way is to watch videos and see when charges work. I find that a lot of times my opponents love to be aggressive after my plasma whip hits their shield so sometimes i immediately charge a dsmash after a spaced whip. If they don't bite i can let go of it and there's little cooldown lag so it's fairly safe. I also like to fox trot back wards and pivot charge dsmash back the other way. Idk why it works but people like to run into it.

Stunning on the edge, followed by a bair. (They seem to come out of stun before I can attempt this)

You should have PLENTY of time if you immediately run off the ledge and bair them without jumping. Hit them with the foot part of the kick if it's a slanted stage that will stage spike them, or hit them with the inner hip part of it to reverse the knockback and hit them toward the blastzone if you cannot stage spike. The other option is like i was saying before, using down b to spike them in this situation.

Paralyzer is good for a Dash Attack + Neutral A combo, but are there any other melee combos I can use efficiently? It feels like stunning is far too precitable, and something to confuse the opponent is what I need dearly. Furthermore, when should my strategy change from damaging, (juggling/stunning) to getting them into the air to K.O? (%'s for each weight class) K.O's have been hell for me, regardless of the character I use, and when I switched Plasma Whip from a K.O move to a spacer, it became even more difficult. (Overall, it made me improve alot, though.) The reason being, is probably because Plasma Whip is so darn quick and unexpected, while fair is predictable.

You can vary your A combo to things like jab dtilt or jab utilt. This is great for people who try to shieldgrab you between the hits. Your goal for getting KO's should mostly be edgegaurding, plasma whip, and dsmashes to bair. Your goal of "getting them into the air to KO" is not a reliable strategy unless you play some really advanced mindgames to predict airdodges.


Hope that helped.

 

[Yyrd]

Thank You Very Much!
I didn't expect such a detailed explaination, and your advice is very helpful!

A few things, though. If I use Plasma Whip to space, and I hit with it frequently because of that, won't it decay a lot? Wouldn't that render the K.O move uselss unless they're at a high percentile?

I guess I've been watching too many combo videos. I have been expecting to land more fairs, but bair is more plausible...if at all it seems. Uair is definately the better choice at high percents after a grab, expecially on light-weights. Although, if I try and Up+B into a fair, it may work. I will definately be utilizing your Down+B advice, your second kill on MK was genius.

As far as mind games go, my friend loves to shield-grab after blocking my Plasma Whip, especially if I hit with more than the tip. I'll try out the charged dsmash if there is a block next time I'm in that situation.

The reason for bringing up Pikachu and IC, hell even Lucario are their neutral B attacks. I know it sounds odd, but I have the most trouble with these characters. If I keep my distance at medium range with spacing, I can get grabbed. On the other hand, if I stall on the edge, I can get gimped. These rapid neutral B attacks are the worst! I always feel like I can't to anything, and RAGGEEEE kicks in. I guess there's a reason they're counter-picks.

Thank you for your insight and wisdom, James Sparrow. You have been a great help to me. With that said, I'm off to practice these new techniques.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Down+B Edge Hogging. (As in, Down+B on the edge, and regrabbing)

Hold down-away from the ledge, then down-b back to it. Hit down-b and hold down so you don't rebound off of the ledge.

Ice Climbers in General. (IC's are probably a good example of the first two)

Split them up. KO'ing Nana is generally very simple, and once you've done that you shouldn't have much of a problem.

 

[Yyrd]

Split them up. KO'ing Nana is generally very simple, and once you've done that you shouldn't have much of a problem.

KO'ing Nana is quite difficult, moreso than it might seem. You see, I can keep them at a distance with lash, and probably deal damage to Nana with it. The problem is, if I get any closer, I get chain-grabbed. My friend can take me from 0-60%, and occasionally get a spike in if I'm not DI'ing well enough. Then again, if I do keep a distance, I get spamed with Iceburgs. This usually pressures me into Close-Combat, because there's a chance of the Iceburgs gimping me if I edge-stall.
If I try a paralyze, it gets blocked.
If I try a grab, and I miss, I'm going to be grabbed.
If I try a dsmash, and it misses, the cooldown could cause me problems.
This probably goes along with my previous comment about Neutral B spam with some characters. Every character that can do this is matched up as a counter-pick.
What would you do in this scenario?

 

[Zero]

A good method to deal with Icies at the start of the match, if they decide to simply camp with icebergs, is to simply throw an armour piece at them. The iceberg stops it, and the lingering hitbox keeps sending them back. Rinse, lather, repeat until you can hit them with one, or until they change their strategy.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Against projectile spammers try to avoid the projectile while using side-b at mid range. Against grab spammers just spam side-b and your neutral b. Dont just attack into their shield as thats just asking to be grabbed. Against the ice climbers space your side bs right and try to get nana away from popo. Also dont get grabbed as if their good its insta-death. Watchout for the quick attack cancel stuff. On battlefield I usually throw 2 immediately at the opponent/off the stage

 

[Sesshomuronay]

and keep the last one for stuff. Grab when the opponent isnt expecting it. If their starting to figure you out it could be good for mixing it up(EX. the opponent begins to shield grab your dash attack, instead dash grab). F-smash should never be used ever.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

The f-smash is epic fail its always better to grab them or do an aerial or up-b or something after 2 down smashes. Remember the f-smash suxxorz. B-air, U-air, Side-b, down-b and F-air are the main kill moves. Whats good to finish the opponent is 2x d-smashes followed up with a b-air/f-air or down-b kick thing or even side-b.

Sorry but my computer messed up or something.

 

[Snakeee]

Thanks for giving me credit, and for what you said about getting grabbed after you down B to get out of a combo...don't just land after it. Mix things up and sometimes use your 2nd jump to get further away. If you're on a stage with platforms it's often a good idea to try to land on them, and then either shield or run off depending on how close your opponent is. Another thing that you can do to catch them off guard and make a safe landing is actually to jump off the stage after the down B and tether right away. Be careful not to do that too often though, because if they predict that with a fast enough character you might even get edgehogged.

 

[Yyrd]

A few things, though. If I use Plasma Whip to space, and I hit with it frequently because of that, won't it decay a lot? Wouldn't that render the K.O move uselss unless they're at a high percentile?

I know that James Sparrow said that he uses some sort of combonation of dsmash and lash for a kill 95% of the time. My Plasma Whip seems to be decayed often, so much so that 150% wouldn't kill Lucario with proper DI. In the Q&A thread, I asked for basic advice. The advice I was given was to start out spamming Plasma Whip to see what works. If I can jump in, hit with Plasma Whip, and come out untouched, why wouldn't I? Sure, a smart player would strike under you, but with Counter-Picks this strategy works well. There is a problem, and it's with decay.

What I'm really asking is this:

• Can one use Plasma Whip too often?
• How many hits does it take to decay completely?

For instance, lets look at Zelda.
She has one of the best projectiles in the game, (Din's Fire is controllable in distance, and can even KO) her smashes are multi-hit with very high priority, and she can teleport behind you. She also shouldn't have a problem reflecting your Paralyzer, or Armor Pieces for that matter, due to her Neutral B (Naryu's Love).

What I'm getting at here is this: Plasma Whip Spam

• Works against characters who have problems at medium range. (Almost all of our Counter-Picks/Neutral Counter-Picks disregarding MK)
• Jump + Plasma Whip (Landing in odd directions) keeps your opponent guessing.

Although, if you have any other way to beat a good Zelda - do tell(Besides gimping Zelda, which I know is fairly easy). My KO move is getting pressrued to the max, but I am also pressuring her with it. I know I must be doing it wrong, there has to be another way around Zelda. Has anyone managed to play a Zelda who knows what they're doing? Help would be much appreciated.

 

[James Sparrow]

To answer your question about plasma whip spam simply, yes you can use plasma whip too much. When I say that you should use it as a spacing tool, I mean that it is a good way to create space if you have failed to keep proper spacing with your paralyzer/dsmash. If you decide to spam plasma whip, you will probably have to find a different way to kill them, like uair or dsmash-bair.

I feel that zss has much better moves for spamming, namely those that knockback is not an issue. These would be, of course, dsmash and paralyzer. Since the major benefit of these moves is the stun, you don't really have to worry about decaying their knockback. Other moves that knockback is not a huge asset to are things like dash attack, jabs, grabs, and uair against heavies (decayed uair actually is really good against characters like rob because it makes it better for juggling).

Zelda is a tricky matchup due to the din fire move and her high priority/high damage smashes. I don't have a great deal of expertise on this specific matchup so I'll leave it to someone else.

I know that James Sparrow said that he uses some sort of combonation of dsmash and lash for a kill 95% of the time.

Just to make sure, I meant that I use at least one of those moves for a kill. It's usually a double dsmash to bair or just a spaced whip, it's on occasion dsmash to whip, but not usually both.

 

[TheRockSays]

Side B is a very useful move unfornately it can ko i don't use this move much because it helps get the job, done because my back air is not working offline so i got save my side B. It's very good spacing but it has lag time after it ends and leaves you vulnerable for in between 1-2 seconds.

The iceclimbers you just got to pressure them enough keep rushing them don't let them go to far they are very spammy up close try to stun them as much as possible.(either with b or downsmash) for KO use the whips it gets the job done like from 70-90 depending if you did not use it much.

 

[Yyrd]

Update!

The tournament is tomorrow, and needless to say, I'm slightly worried. I've been playing a lot of Wi-Fi matches lately, and my friends discourage it because of the latency. Zero Suit Samus is hard to play online, but I've learned to compensate; it scares me. I will probably have the shield timing all wrong. It's just so hard to land combos online with Zero Suit, and I'm hoping it's not just me. Now then, on to the important things. I'll start with my classic lists for today.

Videos!

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBsd7qPwPiw
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRwE3NGAvE
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13T9BzsoWfc

I actually just found that first one today, and it greatly intrigued me. He was very aggressive, and still managed to look great. The D3 in this video claims to be the best in the Mid-West, but I'll let you decide. "Sai" also had terrible spacing, but he seemed to land attacks like Fair far more often, although it could just be that his opponent struggles with air-dodging. Thank you, Sparrow and Snakeee for the remaining videos, as I have taken much from them.

Techniques that need work on this 10th day of practice are as followed:

• Armor Pieces (I've been neglecting them)
• Jab x2+Down+Dtilt
• Spot-Dodge+Utilt
• Dsmash+Bair
• Down+B Edgeguarding/Refreshing of Invincibility Frames
• More Uair (After recoveries/In place for fair if under opponent)
• Completely Eliminate Fsmash

 

[kuenzel]

I've been playing a lot of Wi-Fi matches lately, and my friends discourage it because of the latency. Zero Suit Samus is hard to play online, but I've learned to compensate; it scares me. I will probably have the shield timing all wrong.

Just play a few matches with some level 9's before hand, you'll get the timing of offline games (or should I say, you'll forget about the timing in WIFI games) in no time!

 

[Hence]

Hey gang, this is Yyrd.
Apparently my name was confusing to people at the tournament, so it has been changed.

Here are the results. I wasn't last, which makes me happy. Playing brawl for less than two weeks, and having to go against some of the best was tough. AZ was there, after all. It seems that movement is my fault, and I was predictable because of it. I was focusing too much on character specifics, and almost none of my time on the basics. Btw, thanks for the help everyone. I will continue to improve my Zero Suit Samus, and I hope to be one of the best Zero Suits in the Mid-West. If I can dream it, it can happen.