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MultiVersus General Discussion

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I mean, the game was designed without teching in mind and I think it's pretty universally agreed that it's a great addition. The problem with accepting it as part of disadvantage is that sometimes it genuinely cannot be avoided and that feels bad for the player. There should, at minimum, be something to make the time spent without a partner less miserable, and it shouldn't be tied into perks (another thing I do not like about this game. At least they aren't tied to progression anymore).
First, teching wasn't universally agreed. A lot of players hate it, including a few comp players, the #1 Lebron despises it as an inclusion. Bam and Void heavily criticized auto-tech as just a "lazy bandaid solution to loops" in their talk stream and describe it as unintuitive with Mirrorman saying a similar thing in his own stream. Teching brought a ton of issues, bugs and outright balance breaks since some chars can ignore tech reads with their kits. It's very hit or miss.

Also, they didn't put teching as a mainstay mechanic, we can't manually input it and they didn't even make it work for walls. Since if they did any of this, it'd take away from MVS' identity. Instead they treat it as an auto combo breaker mechanic that limits certain bounces and oppressive advantage similar to say, IPS systems in fighters. That's what shields should be, shields should not be a universal input mechanic since teching isn't either. Making it a perk is the best compromise. Like them or hate them, perks a big part of the game and have been designed to give more options. Top players and players of all kinds outright want more perks that actually matter. That was one of GsmVoid's constant suggestions, bring a lot of stuff in as a perk, shields too.
 
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Faso115

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So, you actually can complete the Galactic skins event by just doing the missions. It's not as grindy as others before, prob cause it lasts less than a week

Managed to nab Gizmo with the galactic token. Now down to the final 3 (And Nubia)
 

Capybara Gaming

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First, teching wasn't universally agreed. A lot of players hate it, including a few comp players, the #1 Lebron despises it as an inclusion. Bam and Void heavily criticized auto-tech as just a "lazy bandaid solution to loops" in their talk stream and describe it as unintuitive with Mirrorman saying a similar thing in his own stream. Teching brought a ton of issues, bugs and outright balance breaks since some chars can ignore tech reads with their kits. It's very hit or miss.

Also, they didn't put teching as a mainstay mechanic, we can't manually input it and they didn't even make it work for walls. Since if they did any of this, it'd take away from MVS' identity. Instead they treat it as an auto combo breaker mechanic that limits certain bounces and oppressive advantage similar to say, IPS systems in fighters. That's what shields should be, shields should not be a universal input mechanic since teching isn't either. Making it a perk is the best compromise. Like them or hate them, perks a big part of the game and have been designed to give more options. Top players and players of all kinds outright want more perks that actually matter. That was one of GsmVoid's constant suggestions, bring a lot of stuff in as a perk, shields too.
I don't really have anything to add other than I think Void has **** taste so I disagree with his assertion. Manual teching should absolutely be an option to put into the hands of the player, not the game.

The fact that such loops exist prove exactly my point that we need more move variety. Too much is put on a handful of moves per character and by increasing the total movepool and redistributing the power between those moves it would make it:

1. More mechanically challenging
2. More visually interesting
3. Inherently less degenerate with play style due to higher execution
4. Less frustrating for the player getting looped
5. Many moves would have more of a use because a lot of moves in this game come out way too slow to be effective.

None of these are bad things. Also, let's be real: some character kits copy/pasting move functionality in air and on ground is just plain lazy and contributed even more to the lack of variety in moves.

Recovery moves also need an absolutely massive change because the distance many of them cover is laughable. I get it, wall jumping is a universal mechanic, however, this presents it's own problem: It's a lot more predictable where the fighter will be when clinging, making spikes way too common, especially considering the overly generous hitboxes on some of them.
 
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I don't really have anything to add other than I think Void has **** taste so I disagree with his assertion. Manual teching should absolutely be an option to put into the hands of the player, not the game.

The fact that such loops exist prove exactly my point that we need more move variety. Too much is put on a handful of moves per character and by increasing the total movepool and redistributing the power between those moves it would make it:

1. More mechanically challenging
2. More visually interesting
3. Inherently less degenerate with play style due to higher execution
4. Less frustrating for the player getting looped
5. Many moves would have more of a use because a lot of moves in this game come out way too slow to be effective.

None of these are bad things. Also, let's be real: some character kits copy/pasting move functionality in air and on ground is just plain lazy and contributed even more to the lack of variety in moves.

Recovery moves also need an absolutely massive change because the distance many of them cover is laughable. I get it, wall jumping is a universal mechanic, however, this presents it's own problem: It's a lot more predictable where the fighter will be when clinging, making spikes way too common, especially considering the overly generous hitboxes on some of them.
Well they won't. As MVS should have its own identity and certain combo breaking systems aren't put into the hands of the player before. Smash itself restricts teching ability from the player in certain cases.

That's already established to not be possible. A fact you continuously ignore, feels like you have no regard of the game's health and future. The reason these kits are smaller with occasional repeating moves is so they can release characters on-schedule, doubling the workload will achieve the exact opposite of that and defeat the entire point of MVS being live service if they're going to put fighting game DLC tier work for free while releasing them completely off schedule in a format that demands constant worthwhile content. Multiversus is similar to a lot of other games in that department where they lessened the scope and made things simplistic for multiple reasons, main one being that future characters and the entire game will not be sustainable if they overdo it with character kits.

Characters only have loops because their other moves are underpowered or the looping moves are overtuned. Thinking adding more moves would magically solve the issues proves a fundamental misunderstanding of why the loops and certain things like Jabversus even happen. Lots of fighting games, including Smash, have loops and infinites regardless of their bigger moves. You need to stop blaming things that aren't at fault just because you personally dislike smaller movesets. all they have to do is remove the loops, which is what they're doing. The instant they buffed moves like Tom's racket, those players have been using that and other moves more often. Same thing for Jason, nair, sleeping bag and rage scream became actual moves now.

That won't or shouldn't happen either, as offstage is intentionally designed to be an awful disadvantage. All of the cast is already extremely floaty with multiple dodges and jumps. Brawlhalla and Rivals had similar wall systems and it works great, MVS doing it is a non issue and is fundamentally baked into the game's identity.
 
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Capybara Gaming

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Well they won't. As MVS should have its own identity and certain combo breaking systems aren't put into the hands of the player before. Smash itself restricts teching ability from the player in certain cases.

That's already established to not be possible. A fact you continuously ignore, feels like you have no regard of the game's health and future. The reason these kits are smaller with occasional repeating moves is so they can release characters on-schedule, doubling the workload will achieve the exact opposite of that and defeat the entire point of MVS being live service if they're going to put fighting game DLC tier work for free while releasing them completely off schedule in a format that demands constant worthwhile content. Multiversus is similar to a lot of other games in that
department where they lessened the scope and made things simplistic for multiple reasons, main one being that future characters and the entire game will not be sustainable if they overdo it with character kits.

Characters only have loops because their other moves are underpowered or the looping moves are overtuned. Thinking adding more moves would magically solve the issues proves a fundamental misunderstanding of why the loops and certain things like Jabversus even happen. Lots of fighting games, including Smash, have loops and infinites regardless of their bigger moves. You need to stop blaming things that aren't at fault just because you personally dislike smaller movesets. all they have to do is remove the loops, which is what they're doing. The instant they buffed moves like Tom's racket, those players have been using that and other moves more often. Same thing for Jason, nair, sleeping bag and rage scream became actual moves now.

That won't or shouldn't happen either, as offstage is intentionally designed to be an awful disadvantage. All of the cast is already extremely floaty with multiple dodges and jumps. Brawlhalla and Rivals had similar wall systems and it works great, MVS doing it is a non issue and is fundamentally baked into the game's identity.
Once again you're ignoring what I actually said. I didn't say adding moves alone would improve it, nor did I say they need to double up on move number. Even just three to four extra moves and a global power rebalance to moves would make a world of difference.

If it's intentionally designed then it's just bad game design. Being offstage alone is supposed to be dangerous yes but not to the point where you have to take the same risky path basically every time and put yourself in harms way. Recovery should be able to be mixed up to keep the enemy guessing. This is platfighter 101. And if Rivals and Brawlhalla already are doing this, shouldn't you yourself be saying that they shouldn't just "copy something that already exists?"

Buffing one move and nerfing another move just changed the moves in a loop, we still see them way too much in a match. It's not a personal thing, I've heard lots of other people express that these moveset are way too small and need more meat on them. Instead of focusing on making every single move a reference, they can just make functional moves.

And no, it isn't established to not be possible, seeing as they have already been making changes to the core of the game such as teaching and movement mechanical changes. They absolutely can change things and add more moves, it is possible. Likely? No. But it is a possibility.

The problem, and this is the last I'm saying on the subject, is that the game has been built like this in the first place. The core itself is rotten and unfun. Characters can exist in the environment that are fun, but they should've started over building the main system from scratch during the hiatus in the old engine instead of waste time making the game run worse on what's supposed to be a better engine.

One look at the games subreddit will show you just how divisive this games mechanics are.
 

Faso115

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Current rift seems pretty easy, biggest downside is that it's very Nubia centric, so most people won't be able to most missions till Friday

Gumball Guardians are really easy too
 
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Once again you're ignoring what I actually said. I didn't say adding moves alone would improve it, nor did I say they need to double up on move number. Even just three to four extra moves and a global power rebalance to moves would make a world of difference.

If it's intentionally designed then it's just bad game design. Being offstage alone is supposed to be dangerous yes but not to the point where you have to take the same risky path basically every time and put yourself in harms way. Recovery should be able to be mixed up to keep the enemy guessing. This is platfighter 101. And if Rivals and Brawlhalla already are doing this, shouldn't you yourself be saying that they shouldn't just "copy something that already exists?"

Buffing one move and nerfing another move just changed the moves in a loop, we still see them way too much in a match. It's not a personal thing, I've heard lots of other people express that these moveset are way too small and need more meat on them. Instead of focusing on making every single move a reference, they can just make functional moves.

And no, it isn't established to not be possible, seeing as they have already been making changes to the core of the game such as teaching and movement mechanical changes. They absolutely can change things and add more moves, it is possible. Likely? No. But it is a possibility.

The problem, and this is the last I'm saying on the subject, is that the game has been built like this in the first place. The core itself is rotten and unfun. Characters can exist in the environment that are fun, but they should've started over building the main system from scratch during the hiatus in the old engine instead of waste time making the game run worse on what's supposed to be a better engine.

One look at the games subreddit will show you just how divisive this games mechanics are.
Your point falls flat when your point comes down to demanding more moves. That literally can't happen. Doubling up or not, "beefing up" the movepool opens a can of worms that the game will fail to uphold.

Nothing about that is bad design. Nor do you have to take the same risky path, you can go up near the blast zone, to the wall or inbetween. And offstage by design is going to put you in harm's way since the opponent is there. It's not an insta-lose position either since you can still mix up your opponent by dodging in different times in different ways or just attacking. Since you have unlimited air attacks it's very easy to still mix the opponent. Sure some opponents have way worse recoveries than others but that's every single platform fighter by default. That isn't the fault of offstage as a concept and you're wasting your time to push a change over non-issues.

That's literally false lmao. Tom and Jerry's paddle loop entirely comes from how overtuned the move is since it can combo a little too well. There isn't a single loop with buffed racket to the same degree of Tom and Jerry's paddle ball move. Those people whining for more moves are a vocal minority and frankly, sound ridiculous. The vast majority are just telling MVS devs to adjust and tune their existing movepool properly, all the comp players specifically aren't demanding more moves, they want their existing moves to actually work for once. And most casuals don't mind the smaller movepool either.

It is not possible. Movement and teching is different as that's purely mechanical. For entire moves now they have to rig, animate, conceptualize and execute much more stuff for the entire roster and future characters. That's 31+ characters they have to animate for now. Substantially increasing the workload for future characters in MVS is not possible since they're already inconsistent with the current system as is. Since characters aren't easy to make, adding to the workload will quickly become a disaster for the game.

That's your subjective opinion. You also find Brawlhalla unfun and the thousands of players playing it would disagree with your take. The core is fine, the problem is that the devs overtune moves that don't need to be overtuned. The subreddit isn't complaining over the core design so I have no idea where you got that from either. They primarily complain over hitboxes more than anything.
 
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Capybara Gaming

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Your point falls flat when your point comes down to demanding more moves. That literally can't happen. Doubling up or not, "beefing up" the movepool opens a can of worms that the game will fail to uphold.
They literally already have, twice. First adding dash attacks and second Batman got entire moves replaced, just recently. It absolutely can and you are being willfully ignorant because you don't want it to happen. They absolutely can create new moves because they've done it.
 
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They literally already have, twice. First adding dash attacks and second Batman got entire moves replaced, just recently. It absolutely can and you are being willfully ignorant because you don't want it to happen. They absolutely can create new moves because they've done it.
Dash attacks happened over their year break when they were rebuilding the game. Not tacking in moves while the game's already finished and built. Batman, a singular character, got one new move after a few months, not "moves". They literally cannot add a bunch of new moves across the entire roster. Adding as little as two new moves across the roster is SIXTY TWO new animations and interactions they have to code to account for their currently existing kit. That's not counting all the newcomers lthey'd have added by the time they even get around to "putting meat in kits" like Marceline. It's not feasible and it's not sustainable for making new characters to bloat their kits.

I'm not being "willfully ignorant", you're just being naive and attributing different cases with zero thoughts on the state of the game and how/why new stuff can happen. The most they'd do is rework an existing move or two every now and then but they're not going to keep adding and adding completely new moves like tilts. That's not possible and it's not going to happen. If they're already struggling to release new chars in a finished/non-broken state as is, adding more moves across the board is going to make everything a ****show.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Honestly, I commend Multiversus for making a fun platform fighter that does something different from Smash Bros.

I won't deny that Smash has a great formula and it wouldn't hurt to copy it in many ways, but at the same time... Multiversus is unique. It's a very different game from Smash and I like that. It has great ideas and moveset design. I don't think its needs to follow Smash in terms of gameplay.

Content? Sure, it could stand to be a more complete package, but the gameplay and moveset design is Multiversus' strongest point.
 
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Honestly, I commend Multiversus for making a fun platform fighter that does something different from Smash Bros.

I won't deny that Smash has a great formula and it wouldn't hurt to copy it in many ways, but at the same time... Multiversus is unique. It's a very different game from Smash and I like that. It has great ideas and moveset design. I don't think its needs to follow Smash in terms of gameplay.

Content? Sure, it could stand to be a more complete package, but the gameplay and moveset design is Multiversus' strongest point.
That strong point is pretty much the only way I see the game lasting long and having a noteworthy legacy. It's why I'm hoping and pleading that shields just be a perk, adds more depth without taking away from the game.
 

MBRedboy31

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I’m curious about how much money releasing characters early access makes.

I’ve seen a bunch of Nubia players already, although I can’t really tell if they have character tickets from Beta or not if they don‘t have a gold name. I’ve seen at least a couple people who seem to have bought the whole character+skin+more Nubia bundle, though.
 

SnakeFighter64

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I’m curious about how much money releasing characters early access makes.

I’ve seen a bunch of Nubia players already, although I can’t really tell if they have character tickets from Beta or not if they don‘t have a gold name. I’ve seen at least a couple people who seem to have bought the whole character+skin+more Nubia bundle, though.
I got her because I had leftover money from a steam gift card. But I’ve barely used her at all, let alone online. She’s just not that interesting to me.
 
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