Multiple air dodges confirmed

[Revven]

I know earlier this week there was already a thread about seeing them in the videos and one guy tweeted about "multiple air cancels", but here's the literal confirmation straight from Sakurai from an interview posted today.

He also confirmed that the Wii U and 3DS Smash Bros. games won't have tripping (or prat falls), and that "at this point," the games will allow for multiple air dodges.

Full Interview from Polygon

Note the "at this point" part. It means it could change; however it's sad that there's likely no way for any of us to voice our cohesive opinions on what we want the air dodge to be or the "best compromise" for it...

Anyway, official confirmation now is all that matters.

 

[Black Mantis]

This makes me happy.

 

[Arcadia157]

Brawl air dodge is so ******** though e_e

 

[Latias]

Good, hated melee's airdodge.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

If they're going to give us the slow, nearly-unpunishable, strategy-free, restrictive air dodge at least limit it to one per jump.

 

[Groose]

I don't want to comment on the Physics of the game before I try them out; my imput is useless as of right now. As I've said before, I don't want this game to be Melee 2 or Brawl 2...I just want it to be a good and balanced game in its own right.

I, along with the rest of the metagame, will adapt. We'll all moan and groan about things we don't like, but they're just part of the game.

 

[Black Mantis]

If they're going to give us the slow, nearly-unpunishable, strategy-free, restrictive air dodge at least limit it to one per jump.

At high level play brawl air dodges can be read and punished very easily.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

At high level play brawl air dodges can be read and punished very easily.

If we're going to talk about competitive play, Melee air dodges > Brawl air dodges

 

[Pyra]

I was going to say something but then I read you guys are bringing this argument out again.
Sigh.

 

[Latias]

If we're going to talk about competitive play, Melee air dodges > Brawl air dodges

MUH WAVEDASHING
That's the only reason why it could be considered better.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh lordy, this argument again.

Melee's air dodges served as frustration to people who got the jist of the game but hadn't mastered it. To us it just seemed like a partially invincible, crap-ily short alternative to a triple jump. (Though it did save Yoshi's bacon more than once... or whatever Dino meat is called).

My ideal one would be a compromise: No helplessness, no movement, but can only be done once until hitting the ground again.

 

[Tacblack]

We shouldn't jump to conclusions anyways. He said "at this point." The fact that he is even considering the possibility is promising.It's not that I prefer the melee air dodge but because it implies that he's taking the "compromise" between Brawl and Melee physics seriously. A compromise is a good thing in this case.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Anyone remember the Hybrid Air Dodge code for Brawl? Where the first air dodge is directional or keeps you in place, then instead of going into special fall, you have Brawl's normal air dodge afterwards until you hit the ground and jump again?

That could work fine if the directional air dodge has the same properties as Melee's/P:M's air dodge and allows for wavedashing. Both air dodge gets in. Everybody wins. :3

 

[GaretHax]

Erm it says "at the moment" guys, that doesn't sound like they have decided. For all we know the final product could be an air-dash or we all just sd off the side of the map for AD-ing. Seems pretty silly to "confirm" a quote from early development when a great deal of **** promised to be included rarely makes it.

 

[Vkrm]

MUH WAVEDASHING
That's the only reason why it could be considered better.

You must not like landing options.

high level play. brawl

Thats a good one.

 

[GP&B]

The problem with B-AD is the practically non-existent landing lag, not necessarily the multiple uses in air (although I believe that some level of commitment to that should be still be necessary).

Regardless, the "at this point" comment puts this under subject to change territory so it's really not worth making a fuss about until things are solidified.

 

[BSP]

Thats a good one.

So Brawl doesn't have high level play?

I'm pretty sure I know what's coming, but I want to see if some people really believe the game takes zero skill to be good at.

 

[Vkrm]

So Brawl doesn't have high level play?

Well now that I think about it i guess would have to, but only in relation to lower and mid levels. Technically there's high level budokai.

 

[Hong]

Is juggling so bad?

Anyways, if not a limited number, at least I want a longer delay before the character has control after an air dodge.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I never did like how air dodging leaves you helpless in Melee.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Meh... don't really care for multiple air doges but whatever.

Just increase the amount of hitstun to allow for actual combos please.

 

[Gardex]

You must not like landing options.



Thats a good one.

If you're going to criticize the game, then try to at least have a clue about what you're talking about.

 

[Overswarm]

I'd rather have Brawl's air dodge if the game is a floaty game more similar to Brawl than Melee. All these idiots saying "come on directional air dodges, yeah!" and " wavedashing!!!" don't realize that Brawl's air dodge was literally integral to the very fabric of the game.

If you had a directional air dodge in Brawl that was like Melee's, characters like Snake would have gotten messed up in the air because characters like MK can hover in their space and throw out a u-air, wait for air dodge, then u-air again. The ability to air dodge twice or air dodge and then do an attack meant that MK still had to time his attacks and not get in Snake's grill (lest he get a bair to the face).

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Snake is ass in the air to like, everyone, no need to specify just MK.

Since he said "currently" what are some opinions to alternate methods of Brawl's air dodge? For example, one Air Dodge but you do not go into free fall? Or maybe just no air dodge at all (clearly this isn't going to happen, but it hasn't been ruled out)

 

[SKM_NeoN]

I'd rather have Brawl's air dodge if the game is a floaty game more similar to Brawl than Melee. All these idiots saying "come on directional air dodges, yeah!" and " wavedashing!!!" don't realize that Brawl's air dodge was literally integral to the very fabric of the game.

If you had a directional air dodge in Brawl that was like Melee's, characters like Snake would have gotten messed up in the air because characters like MK can hover in their space and throw out a u-air, wait for air dodge, then u-air again. The ability to air dodge twice or air dodge and then do an attack meant that MK still had to time his attacks and not get in Snake's grill (lest he get a bair to the face).

Oh come on, multiple air dodges are integral to Brawl because Meta-Knight outclasses the entire roster in the air? That's a balance issue, not a mechanical solution.

 

[Overswarm]

Oh come on, multiple air dodges are integral to Brawl because Meta-Knight outclasses the entire roster in the air? That's a balance issue, not a mechanical solution.

It's an example.

Here's another one: ROB. Without a multiple air dodge, he'd have serious trouble. If he simply air dodged and hovered in the air, the entire cast would have enough time to get under him and wreck 'em.

Orrrrrr another: Olimar on the ground underneath you goes to u-smash. You air dodge. He now has time to grab you wherever you're landing.

Yes, a myriad of changes to the characters could make a directional air dodge work. But in a floaty game the default is "air dodging with freeze then freefall and only one air dodge is one of the dumbest decisions you can make".

 

[CosmoNaughtilus]

Happy to see people still haven't gotten over the "my game is better" debate. Christ.

I'm sure, regardless of what the development team decides to do, most of, if not all of us, will still end up purchasing and playing the game, at the very least casually. Because it's so ambiguous, there's absolutely NO reason to be so hateful towards something that's only just come back to the forefront of everyone's minds. As time goes on, we'll learn more, and then we can make decisions based on what we see.

/endrant

 

[Life]

I'm pretty sure at least one Brawl mod used Brawl AD when control stick is neutral and melee AD when control stick is tilted. Might be a bit complicated for general audiences though? Really a lot of that could be worked out with an official version of Advanced How To Play on the disk.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

It's an example.

Here's another one: ROB. Without a multiple air dodge, he'd have serious trouble. If he simply air dodged and hovered in the air, the entire cast would have enough time to get under him and wreck 'em.

Orrrrrr another: Olimar on the ground underneath you goes to u-smash. You air dodge. He now has time to grab you wherever you're landing.

Yes, a myriad of changes to the characters could make a directional air dodge work. But in a floaty game the default is "air dodging with freeze then freefall and only one air dodge is one of the dumbest decisions you can make".

That's the way Smash has always been; If you're hovering above someone you're screwed. You shouldn't find yourself in these situations to begin with. God forbid you get punished for making a mistake.

 

[Overswarm]

That's the way Smash has always been; If you're hovering above someone you're screwed. You shouldn't find yourself in these situations to begin with. God forbid you get punished for making a mistake.

I'm guessing you didn't play Brawl very much.

 

[Vkrm]

If you're going to criticize the game, then try to at least have a clue about what you're talking about.

Good argument.

 

[Gardex]

Tell me how high level Brawl is a joke and/or not possible

Tell me why the clear demand of talent doesn't matter

Tell me why a game that focuses on fundamentals even moreso than Melee can't have high level play

Tell me why liking multiple airdodges means disliking landing options(I found this one in particular very funny)

 

[Baskerville]

Doesn't disappoint me. I've always liked Brawl's air dodging over Melee.

 

[Sukai]

Love smash arguments, they're always circuitous and goes nowhere without moderator intervention, goes back to the Roy/Marth debate. Good times. On topic, it really depends on the game's mechanics overall. Do people want a technical aspect or demand when airborne, or do they care more about pacing and footsies. I personally could go either way, both air dodge systems had their ups and downs that made them cool and frustrating to an indignant degree. It'd be cool to have wavedashing, wave landings and triangle jumps back, on the other hand, I like having real defensive options in the air that can help close gaps or not make my close range fighter completely free to disjointed hitboxes.

Maybe we'll get something new or a middle man. I'd be cool with this too.

"At this point" makes sense, since much like brawl was built on top of melee's system. This game is extremely likely to be based on, currently using and will be built from brawl's system.

 

[Frostwraith]

I prefer multiple air dodges, like in Brawl.

 

[Vkrm]

Tell me why the clear demand of talent doesn't matter.

How much talent do I need to circumvent tripping?

Tell me why a game that focuses on fundamentals even moreso than Melee can't have high level play.

Brawl emphasizes brawl fundamentals, but if we're talking about the three main guidellines of fighting games: spacing/mind games/execution, I think melee has a better balance, that part is up to player preference.

Tell me why liking multiple airdodges means disliking landing options(I found this one in particular very funny)

they're non directional.

Tell me how high level Brawl is a joke and/or not possible

It's funny like a joke.

 

[Gardex]

How much talent do I need to circumvent tripping?

Good point, ignoring the question and falling back to tripping.(Which you can avoid by walking or jumping, btw)
There is a clear difference between good and bad in Brawl. Skill is needed, whether you like it or not.
As long as DI and the rock-paper-scissors mechanics exist, nobody will ever reach the skillcap.

Brawl emphasizes brawl fundamentals, but if we're talking about the three main guidellines of fighting games: spacing/mind games/execution, I think melee has a better balance.

Who said anything about having a better balance?
Brawl is a game that focuses on the bare-bones that makes Smash what it is. Because there's little extra, one can actually say that it focuses more on the things you listed than Melee(but this comes down to subjectivity).
And before you say something, yes, execution is insanely important in Brawl. Welcome to post-2009

So tell me again, why can't it have high level play when it focuses on fundamentals? You never answered.

they're non directional.

And? I see the Brawl version being used as an landing option WAY MORE often than the Melee one. People can go on and on about which airdodge system is the best, but when talking about landing with them, you seriously cannot call liking of the Brawl one a dislike of landing options.
When landing, you have different options, whether one of them is a directional invicibility or not, doesn't matter. They're still options.

It's funny like a joke.

Just because you find it funny doesn't mean it doesn't exist

 

[Vkrm]

Good point, ignoring the question and falling back to tripping.(Which you can avoid by walking or jumping, btw)
There is a clear difference between good and bad in Brawl. Skill is needed, whether you like it or not.
As long as DI and the rock-paper-scissors mechanics exist, nobody will ever reach the skillcap.

Not sure how any of that relates to what i said or my point that high level brawl is both uninteresting and inconsistent on top of having nothing distinct if you compare it to melee. if you mean to point out that some people place better then others, then i agree. People will reach the skill cap of brawl relatively soon assuming they're able to maintain a scene long for everything to be optimized. The problem being, at this point there's no incentive. Lol you probably think rock scissors stone has an evolving metagame too.

Who said anything about having a better balance?
Brawl is a game that focuses on the bare-bones that makes Smash what it is. Because there's little extra, one can actually say that it focuses more on the things you listed than Melee(but this comes down to subjectivity).
And before you say something, yes, execution is insanely important in Brawl. Welcome to post-2009

Brawl requiring execution is not good news at all with that random 2 frame of delay, not to mention I'm not convinced any of the brawl specific tech would require practice at all.

So tell me again, why can't it have high level play when it focuses on fundamentals? You never answered.

I don't believe brawl is more focused on fundamentals. Understanding the games defining traits is a prerequisite for success in any competitive game.

And? I see the Brawl version being used as an landing option WAY MORE often than the Melee one. People can go on and on about which airdodge system is the best, but when talking about landing with them, you seriously cannot call liking of the Brawl one a dislike of landing options.
When landing, you have different options, whether one of them is a directional invicibility or not, doesn't matter. They're still options.

More options does not equall better options. You see the brawl airdodge used more often, that's true, but you also see it punished more often as well. Personally I think melees air dodge is underutilized as a response for juggles.

Just because you find it funny doesn't mean it doesn't exist

It's not just me. Not to mention I already acknowledged that you can play any game well.

 

[Chauzu]

Multiple air dodges and a bit more Melee-gravity.

Striking a balance between the games - I'd like something like that.

 

[BlixtG]

IMO the defencive options need to get nerfed. I would love it if for smash4 to be a really intense and offensive game. For that to happen I think brawl air dodges need to change in some way.