Much better than having to click spoiler 3 times just to see 3 or 4 lines of words.
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MU discussion: MewTwo
- Thread starter HoS_Beast
- Start date
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
I was expecting there to become a whole lot more. Once we get all the untested ones tested, the confirmed one should grow too^^ i just like being organized. Its one of those pet peves i guess. Funny though, my real life is a total mess, but my computer is emaculate.
YoHeKing
Smash Master
I know for a fact mewtwo can deadly edge guard a yoshi and gimp him at 0% even. Fast falling nair really screws yoshi if you get him off stage like that. Also some1 needs to test if mewtwo can cancel out yoshis eggs with his hitboxes
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
Just wondering. This near fast fall, is it recoverable if you have double jump and egg toss?
YoHeKing
Smash Master
Yes but thats not the only part of it. Mewtwo has absolutely NO lag after the hitbox finishes. So even if yoshi still has his 2nd jump mewtwo can follow it up with 2 more nairs and warp back to stage. The nairs wont chain but yoshi might jumo into themHoS_Beast post: 19013526 said:
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HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
can we nair out of it? or is it too slow?
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Does Mewtwo's Nair break our Double Jump? It seems to be a multihit move, meaning it probably wouldn't ever break our jump, so I don't know why we're worried about these gimps.
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
Supposedly it does, i am going to test it today. just prepearing for casual plays. anyone can join.
YoHeKing
Smash Master
Yoshis fair can easily go through the mewtwo nair. I recently found out that yoshi can jump out of mewtwos forward throw lmao.
Also mewtwos nair can mess up yoshi second jump with a few hits. I gimped my freind at 30% with the first hit of mewtwos nair. But yoshi can easily jump inti dodge
Also mewtwos nair can mess up yoshi second jump with a few hits. I gimped my freind at 30% with the first hit of mewtwos nair. But yoshi can easily jump inti dodge
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
after playing some around with this matchup, i can confirm that mewtwo's neutral air definitively is an annoying attack for yoshi.
Also, if we force mewtwo onto the offensive, he seems weaker than when he is defensive.
Also, if we force mewtwo onto the offensive, he seems weaker than when he is defensive.
YoHeKing
Smash Master
Yeah. I can also confirm grabs are really bad in this MU. Yoshi can grab mewtwo through his huge tilts but mewtwo cant even punish yoshi with his grabs.
Mewtwo cant grab a crouching yoshi, side smash charging yoshi, ending lag of side smash, fair lag of yoshi even his down smash and dash attack. Confirmed
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CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
All of that is wrong. I just went into training mode and grabbed each of these examples. If you ever missed those grabs, it wasn't because you couldn't grab Yoshi, you were just outside of your grab range.
YoHeKing
Smash Master
Me and HoS beast both found this out in a matches together. How could we be lieing. I dont know how and why I put down smash though. And dash attack at some parts of it dosnt sheild grab
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CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
I'm not saying you're lying im just saying you're wrong lol. Like you said Yoshi can't be grabbed while crouching. I literally just went into training mode, crouched, walked up and grabbed him. The same for fsmash and fair landing lag.
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
It may also be that mewtwo's grab range is weird. I have noticed it myself when i was playing with my friends. could not get them grabs in.
Also, i am not saying we are not wrong
i am not the best yoshi, far from. I can easily make mistakes so my message was more of a "this is what i feel about the attack when i play against mewtwo"
Also, i am not saying we are not wrong
i am not the best yoshi, far from. I can easily make mistakes so my message was more of a "this is what i feel about the attack when i play against mewtwo"
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CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Lol like im not trying to attack you guys or anything.
What I think is happening is that you're overestimating his grab range. His grab range is complete ass and it's slightly deceiving because you expect it to be more disjointed than it is.. to put it in perspective it's like less than yoshi's jab. So you might just be trying to shield grab something when you aren't in range at all. He can't shield grab stuff like a perfectly spaced fair or yoshi dtilting his shield, but neither can alot of characters. It's not like we can't be grabbed they're just out of range
What I think is happening is that you're overestimating his grab range. His grab range is complete ass and it's slightly deceiving because you expect it to be more disjointed than it is.. to put it in perspective it's like less than yoshi's jab. So you might just be trying to shield grab something when you aren't in range at all. He can't shield grab stuff like a perfectly spaced fair or yoshi dtilting his shield, but neither can alot of characters. It's not like we can't be grabbed they're just out of range
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
Nono. Of course not. I know you are not.
I asumed something like that was the reason. I had problems grabbing when i played him myself
YoHeKing
Smash Master
No its fine were all freindly here. His grab range isnt the best. I went up against a pika user and could not grab at all. I won but still grabing small characters is bad. But ive noticed that yoshi can jump out of mewtwo forward throw. With the correct DI of course.
Anyways HoS beast you should let me battle your mewtwo. Even if you loose its fine there freindlys and were just testing stuff out.
HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
I am all up for some matches. My m2 sucks but who cares^^ its all fun times. Today has been really busy though. I am exhausted
Regarding neutral air, the only part that stands a chance to overcome the double jump modifier is the last hit. Even with that, neutral air's last hit doesn't break the jump at 100%. Neutral air is fine to jump through. Yoshi can cash in with his own neutral air at virtually any time during double jumping through Mewtwo's and the worst that will happen is Yoshi takes 1% and goes nowhere.
Mewtwo's grab is funny in its timing and space. It's very high up as well. It whiffs on several attempted punishes out of shield, even against a character like Yoshi. Mewtwo players probably opt for neutral air out of shield or just jab if they're unsure of the grab punish. His pivot grab is the most consistent out of his three grabs. It's such a shame it takes so long to use. I guess the upside for Mewtwo is that he doesn't really need throws unless he wants time to charge Shadow Ball or to get an up throw/back throw KO.
If Mewtwo DOES grab you and down throws you, that's his only setup throw when he's not near the edge. DI away from Mewtwo.
Something I think is interesting is that I'm not able to get a lot of mileage out of Egg Lay. Even though I haven't gotten in the habit of evading Egg Lay like this yet, some Mewtwo players are reacting out of shield with jab or teleport. If Yoshi just uses it raw in an open approach, I have been able to tilt and trade on reaction.
I'm sure most of you know, but for those who might not know or might not be sure, Shadow Ball hits pretty friggin hard. Fully charged, it breaks the double jump just a little under 40% with no rage. Shadow Claw breaks the jump at just under 50% with no rage. Down air breaks the jump at around 65%. This is your danger zone; if you're off stage, you need to be prepared to evade/challenge these moves as necessary. I doubt any Mewtwo players will be bathing in Yoshi double jump knowledge, but if they play the character long enough to know how hard he hits and has even a general idea of how Yoshi's double jump works, they will probably try to get very aggressive off stage.
(Confusion always ends your double jump.)
If Mewtwo tries to do things after hitting with Confusion, the player is more than likely seeing what they can get away with. Mewtwo is -5 or something close on hit with Confusion, meaning anything they do afterward isn't real. Mewtwo's safest attacking option is jab, which will beat a mashed out neutral air (based on spacing, not on frames). If Mewtwo goes for Confusion as an attack option and not a reflect, pay attention to what they try to do--don't let them rob you by missing your tech and falling into smashes or tilts.
Mewtwo's teleport out of shield is kinda baller. I need to play around with this a bit more. I don't know how important this is to anyone, but if Mewtwo is in the air and teleports, he can't ever teleport straight down. Not sure how useful that is to anyone. What I DO know is completely useless is that Disable breaks double jump at about 180% (but the move only works if you are facing Mewtwo).
It's such a shame he's really fleshed out and fun this time around, but the lack of speed and alternate mobility options makes Mewtwo difficult to win with. He's SUPER fun, though. Definitely a hard matchup for him with Yoshi.
Mewtwo's grab is funny in its timing and space. It's very high up as well. It whiffs on several attempted punishes out of shield, even against a character like Yoshi. Mewtwo players probably opt for neutral air out of shield or just jab if they're unsure of the grab punish. His pivot grab is the most consistent out of his three grabs. It's such a shame it takes so long to use. I guess the upside for Mewtwo is that he doesn't really need throws unless he wants time to charge Shadow Ball or to get an up throw/back throw KO.
If Mewtwo DOES grab you and down throws you, that's his only setup throw when he's not near the edge. DI away from Mewtwo.
Something I think is interesting is that I'm not able to get a lot of mileage out of Egg Lay. Even though I haven't gotten in the habit of evading Egg Lay like this yet, some Mewtwo players are reacting out of shield with jab or teleport. If Yoshi just uses it raw in an open approach, I have been able to tilt and trade on reaction.
I'm sure most of you know, but for those who might not know or might not be sure, Shadow Ball hits pretty friggin hard. Fully charged, it breaks the double jump just a little under 40% with no rage. Shadow Claw breaks the jump at just under 50% with no rage. Down air breaks the jump at around 65%. This is your danger zone; if you're off stage, you need to be prepared to evade/challenge these moves as necessary. I doubt any Mewtwo players will be bathing in Yoshi double jump knowledge, but if they play the character long enough to know how hard he hits and has even a general idea of how Yoshi's double jump works, they will probably try to get very aggressive off stage.
(Confusion always ends your double jump.)
If Mewtwo tries to do things after hitting with Confusion, the player is more than likely seeing what they can get away with. Mewtwo is -5 or something close on hit with Confusion, meaning anything they do afterward isn't real. Mewtwo's safest attacking option is jab, which will beat a mashed out neutral air (based on spacing, not on frames). If Mewtwo goes for Confusion as an attack option and not a reflect, pay attention to what they try to do--don't let them rob you by missing your tech and falling into smashes or tilts.
Mewtwo's teleport out of shield is kinda baller. I need to play around with this a bit more. I don't know how important this is to anyone, but if Mewtwo is in the air and teleports, he can't ever teleport straight down. Not sure how useful that is to anyone. What I DO know is completely useless is that Disable breaks double jump at about 180% (but the move only works if you are facing Mewtwo).
It's such a shame he's really fleshed out and fun this time around, but the lack of speed and alternate mobility options makes Mewtwo difficult to win with. He's SUPER fun, though. Definitely a hard matchup for him with Yoshi.
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HoS_Beast
Smash Cadet
Thank you for your inputs. i have updated the "unconfirmed" until we get to testing them. I also took a snippit from your text and added it under "useful tips".
To other yoshi mains. I have been away for a while, has there been any updates to this matchup? anything i have missed the past 2 weeks?
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Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Care to elaborate on why?
Fuerzo
Smash Apprentice
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Some of it simply has to do with Mewtwo's inherent weaknesses (worst character in the game IMO, though that's another discussion)--broken hitboxes, virtually no approach options, and simultaneously being big, floaty, and absurdly lightweight--the latter being the ideal combination for Yoshi. He gets juggled and comboed easily, he's vulnerable to dair punishes, and then we kill him with an up air at 90 or something. His size also means that he gets shut down by eggs if he tries to fall back to charge Shadow Ball--Confusion can reflect them but is also laggy, meaning that you should try to bait it out--and if the Mewtwo tries to push forward we can eat him alive. The only things to watch out for are being snagged by a running up smash while in the air and the fact that Confusion kills our double jump armor, the latter of which means that it's probably not worse than 70:30, but no better.