Mr. Game & Watch v1.1.1 Patch Notes [Sept. 30th] [COMPLETE]

[Keep2D]

Here we go again! With the sm4sh update coming right around the corner, it will soon be time to search for potential buffs and Nerfs on our 2D friend, Mr. Game & Watch!

Buffs: NONE




Nerfs: NONE (Get up Attack shield damage decreased (universal change))




UPDATE #1:
As it stands, I have tested Damage output, knockback on moves, FAF on all grounded moves (including specials), and landing lag.
I did so by keeping my 3ds at 1.1.0 and setting time to 1/4 for faf/landing lag.
For damage/kb, I listed all damage/kill % values on Mario @ FD in his starting position BEFORE the patch release on the Wii U version (version 1.1.0 Wii U)
I also tested the IFrames on USmash and UpB.

I regret, and I'm also happy, to inform you all that there are no changes to all the things listed above. Any other changes on this character (other than the universal get up Attack shield damage decrease) is beyond my power to check on. With that said, hope you guys still enjoy playing G&W, and continue to try and improve on your 2D skills!

UPDATE #2: Thinkaman has confirmed that there were 0 changes to G&W this patch.

 

[Furret24]

Let's hope he gets something that will really help him, much like how version 1.0.8 made our Down Tilt and Back Air so much better.

I'm eagerly awaiting a Forward Air buff so it kills again.

 

[TimG57867]

I don't main Mr. Game and Watch in this game, but I used to him almost as much as Kirby in Brawl. I do use him for fun now and then in Smash 4 but I feel that in this game, compared to Brawl, he's lacking. I am not sure if this update will actually include character changes or not, but if it does, here are some things I'd him to get to make him a fun secondary for me again:

• His Up Air hitboxes need to connect better. I've watched GimR on VGBootCamp, and all too often do games slip out of his hands or become a lot harder for him because the first hit didn't connect to the second one. Since Mr. Game and Watch has a bad jump, he doesn't have a big window to be able to kill his opponent with Up Air while following up from Down Throw. And since he's light, he doesn't want the battle to last too long less he be screwed over by rage.
• I'd like his his Back Throw's angle to become more horizontal so that it can kill on the edge at high percents.
• Less landing lag on his aerials overall would be appreciated. Especially Down Air and Forward Air. They should also become stronger. They just seem a tad too weak.
• I'd like for his Down and Forward Smashes to get more knockback.
• I am not sure how but Up Tilt to needs to combo better. Its hitboxes are almost as loose as Up Air's.
• Less lag on the bucket so that he can use it better against energy projectiles without getting punished.

If Mr. Game and Watch got this stuff, it'd make him a much more fun and viable character if you ask me. And seeing how he isn't dominating tournaments and only has 2-3 mains that get results in tourneys, I can't picture them nerfing him unless it's to balance out a huge buff.

 

[Furret24]

Nice to see non-G&W mains think he needs buffs too.

Here is my list of buffs that would benefit him the most. This means more minor buffs are not here (ex. Removing F-Tilt sourspot).
- Up Tilt hitbox size increased, along with it's damage being combined into a single hit. This way, it not only has more juggle potential, but could possibly make it a last-resort kill move as well.
- Down Tilt endlag reduced so it's not as punishable.
- Forward Smash sourspot size decrease, while making the sweetspot size increase. It's sourspot is too weak for a frame 17 attack. Bring back it's lingering hitbox. Increase it's knockback slightly so it kills before 100% reliably again too.
- Up Smash backwards hitbox size increase so it can reliably hit more often. Slightly increase it's knockback too so it's the strongest in the game too if want to be a little generous too.
- Down Smash sweetspot should take up more of the hitbox, roughly 60%, up from 10%.
- Down Smash sourspot knockback should to the point where it kills before 150% again, much like in Brawl.
- Forward Air should have it's Brawl knockback, or atleast kill before 140%. I don't care if it get's a landing lag increase, I just want G&W to have a reliable aerial kill option again. After all, if other characters get it, why can't we have one? I'd appriciate if it did more damage too (ideally, 11.5% -> 14.5% or more).
- Back Air should deal more damage (ideally, 9% -> 12% or more). Preferably get a minor landing lag buff too.
- More of an idea than an ideal buff, but what if Back Air's landing hit got a big knockback buff to the point where it could kill.
- Up Air's first hit should have set knockback. This is probably the most beneficial buff to Game and Watch, since it would give him a great, but somewhat situational, kill option in the air, especially if we could use it as a kill confirm out of Down Throw.
- Down Air should get a landing lag buff (along with Down Air Stall-Then-Falls in general) as well as a damage
(ideally, 11%, 3.5% -> 13%, 5%) and knockback buff. That way, it could kill before 150% again.
- Either Back Throw or Up Throw (both if we're greedy) should get a massive knockback buff so they're kill throws. If it's Back Throw, lower it's angle so it kills faster too.
- Reduce Down Special's minimum duration like they did to Ness' (which would be 50 frames -> 30 frames). That way, it's not so punishable.

With these buffs, I think Mr. Game and Watch could definitely be a good character again, possibly even better.

I hope I wasn't too greedy here.

 

[NouveauRétro]

Nice to see non-G&W mains think he needs buffs too.

Here is my list of buffs that would benefit him the most. This means more minor buffs are not here (ex. Removing F-Tilt sourspot).
- Up Tilt hitbox size increased, along with it's damage being combined into a single hit. This way, it not only has more juggle potential, but could possibly make it a last-resort kill move as well.
- Down Tilt endlag reduced so it's not as punishable.
- Forward Smash sourspot size decrease, while making the sweetspot size increase. It's sourspot is too weak for a frame 17 attack. Bring back it's lingering hitbox. Increase it's knockback slightly so it kills before 100% reliably again too.
- Up Smash backwards hitbox size increase so it can reliably hit more often. Slightly increase it's knockback too so it's the strongest in the game too if want to be a little generous too.
- Down Smash sweetspot knockback increase. This is so it kills reliably before 100% again, preferably around as early as Megaman's.
- Down Smash sourspot size decrease and major knockback increase. The sweetspot should take up roughly 60% of the hitbox, not 10%. The sourspot should kill before 150% again, much like in Brawl.
- Forward Air should have it's Brawl knockback, or atleast kill before 140%. I don't care if it get's a landing lag increase, I just want G&W to have a reliable aerial kill option again. After all, if other characters get it, why can't we have one? I'd appriciate if it did more damage too (ideally, 11.5% -> 14.5% or more).
- Back Air should deal more damage (ideally, 9% -> 13% or more). Preferably get a minor landing lag buff too.
- More of an idea than an ideal buff, but what if Back Air's landing hit got a big knockback buff to the point where it could kill.
- Up Air's first hit should have set knockback. This is probably the most beneficial buff to Game and Watch, since it would give him a great, but somewhat situational, kill option in the air, especially if we could use it as a kill confirm out of Down Throw.
- Down Air should get a landing lag buff (along with Down Air Stall-Then-Falls in general) as well as a damage
(ideally, 11%, 3.5% -> 13%, 5%) and knockback buff. That way, it could kill before 150% again.
- Either Back Throw or Up Throw (both if we're greedy) should get a massive knockback buff so they're kill throws. If it's Back Throw, lower it's angle so it kills faster too.
- Reduce Down Special's minimum duration like they did to Ness' (which would be 50 frames -> 30 frames). That way, it's not so punishable.

With these buffs, I think Mr. Game and Watch could definitely be a good character again.

I hope I wasn't too greedy here.

The down smash sweetspot buff is a bit much, that move is already mad strong. Bair damage buff is a bit much too, G&W's damage output would have to be adjusted all around to balance a 4% raise. Landing lag buff would be perfect though.
We NEED: that upsmash hitbox increase, uair/utilt autolink buffs, and a kill throw. Those alone would probably put us a couple spots higher on the tier list and make him a real tournament threat.

 

[Furret24]

The down smash sweetspot buff is a bit much, that move is already mad strong. Bair damage buff is a bit much too, G&W's damage output would have to be adjusted all around to balance a 4% raise. Landing lag buff would be perfect though.
We NEED: that upsmash hitbox increase, uair/utilt autolink buffs, and a kill throw. Those alone would probably put us a couple spots higher on the tier list and make him a real tournament threat.

I made two changes to my list in response to your post.
- My "ideal" Back Air damage buff is now to 12%, where each hit does 3%. That isn't too crazy is it?
- Down Smash imo should kill as early as Ganondorf's, since it killing as early as Megaman's is a bit extreme. After all, I just want a minor buff to it, like the minor nerf they gave to Sonic's Forward Smash (It kills 4% later compared to version 1.0.8).

Personally, i'd prefer Up Tilt to just be a single hit upwards so it could also potentially a last resort kill move while keeping it's juggling capabilities.

 

[MistressRemilia]

I like G&W the way he is, but if i had to do changes:
- Forward Air autocancels by Short Hopping, always kind of wanted this type of tool.
- Either SH Autocancel Chef, or 2/3 Projectiles by doing fullhop chef.
- I just think DownAir & NeutralAir should be like they were in Melee, but that won't happen so.
- Utilt hitbox size increase, and the return of its original angle.

And that's it. As i said, i'm completely fine with Game&Watch and believe that he's decently balanced.

 

[Folie]

Nice to see non-G&W mains think he needs buffs too.
- Down Smash sweetspot knockback increase. This is so it kills reliably before 100% again, preferably around as early as Ganondorf's.

it already does this? from center stage, g&w's sweetspot dsmash is one of the strongest in the game

 

[Furret24]

it already does this? from center stage, g&w's sweetspot dsmash is one of the strongest in the game

It's currently the 6th strongest. Lucas and Ike's kill at the same percent without Did or Rage, but ours is affected the most by different out of the three.

I personally want it to be a tad stronger, but I guess it's not really that important, so I'll remove it.

 

[Denzill7]

Have fair kill way earlier, make at least one of his aerials autocancel out of sh, slightly less KBG on down throw so that I can get down throw up air on stages other than Halberd. (I suck at it so badly.) And make his up tilt hit in front of him.

 

[NouveauRétro]

THIIIIIS MIIIIDNIIIIIIGHT!!!
If we get significant buffs, heck, ANY significant buff, I promise to give my G&W guide a BIG update with more stuff I've found, and post-patch goodness. If not then awww, I guess I'll make that combo guide I said I would

 

[Folie]

reminder that the best expectations are no expectations, positive or negative.

personally i can't wait for all the people who don't play G&W to come in and tell us all their placebo'd patch notes about G&W

 

[Folie]

OP is updated

 

[Furret24]

I checked some of Game and Watch's moves on the new patch.

No changes as far as I can see.

Edit: 'd.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Hey Sakurai, how's that wrist? Your hand fall off yet? Hope it does soon so someone capable can take over your spot.

 

[Folie]

There's a guy going through files of data for characters on the 1.1.1 thread, he confirmed no changes on G&W

:^)

 

[Furret24]

Even though we got a minor nerf, nothing particularly bad happened to us.

Plz Buff G&W Sakurai!

 

[NouveauRétro]

Ugh, this patch is a personal disappointment.
Might pick up Luigi now, his dthrow basically got turned into ours with higher kbg and lower bkb, complete with ground combos on fastfallers and everything. Also dair spike is mich easier, why? Anyway, Luigi probably fell out to wherever the hell Diddy is now that he doesn't auto-kill out of grab.

Misfire damage apparently got nerfed though lol.

 

[GoomTheGoon]

Let's hope he gets something that will really help him, much like how version 1.0.8 made our Down Tilt and Back Air so much better.

I'm eagerly awaiting a Forward Air buff so it kills again.

Forward air desperately needs a buff, or maybe tweak and improve the damage from b-air

 

[Furret24]

Due to the universal increase of shield stun, our moves are safer on shield. A buff in my book.

 

[jsqrc]

But how much safer? Shield stun is higher now than in Melee, allegedly.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

People need to look into how much safer our moves are on shield compared to before due to the shield stun algorithm being different. It should buff our multihits, but how about FAir/Dash Attack/DAir?

Also, Dantarion's dumps had some changes to G&W beyond the getup attacks. Anyone able to tell what they are?

 

[jsqrc]

Those changes are similar to those of last patch, which turned out to be nothing.

 

[Yatterman300]

Still waiting for N-air to auto cancel, lol. Sad to see nothing change but this seems like more of a universal patch anyways.

 

[Folie]

we've been testing. bair can still be unsafe, fair can be safe sometimes but still relatively unsafe, dtilt still unsafe, ftilt same as fair. jab on shield to grab appears to be a thing that works, as well as first uair on shield to jab.

it's hard to know what will work without actually playing a lot of matches with the new mechanic, wifi testing is a little unreliable. I'll be playing a bunch of local matches this Friday.

 

[Vader614]

This patch is going to be a big deal to the Smash 4 meta now. Just in time too before my local group's Smash 4 tournament happens next Saturday (10/10/15), now going to mess around with G&W to see how he does now with the Shield notice in this patch.

On the side note, I'm glad that the patch didn't nerf G&W at all, but we still need reliable kill options that aren't hard reads. Aside from Down Throw to Up Air (although it's not 100% reliable), Judge (luck base), and Bucket (situational since not all characters give G&W bucket), G&W has to rely on hard reads to take a stock. Heck, I'm a strong G&W player yet I'm still trying to master the key spiking lol.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

http://smashboards.com/threads/pacmans-m-ms-metagame-and-match-up-discussion-thread.370926/
You G&W mains, one of the Pacs think they beat you badly, wanna discuss the MU and prove em wrong?

 

[Folie]

http://smashboards.com/threads/pacmans-m-ms-metagame-and-match-up-discussion-thread.370926/
You G&W mains, one of the Pacs think they beat you badly, wanna discuss the MU and prove em wrong?

so do the ganons lol. I would if I actually had any experience whatsoever in that MU

edit: can't find any recent posts about g&w, give me a direct idea as to where they are?

 

[verbatim]

Not the right thread but w/e.

I play both characters and there's some truth and false to those statements.

Pacman-G&W sucks if you don't know how to abuse/negate the fruits/hydrants. Pacman's fruits don't get rage so he really benefits from fighting lighter characters, but at the same time G&W has a real grab, throw combos, and reliable kill options that works before 120%.

Conversely, Ganondorf can kill at like 60-70 with a well positioned bair/fsmash, but he's incredibly easy to bair stage spike.

 

[Folie]

Ganon is super easy to play neutral against if you're aware of his little tricks (ex: usmash having little lag) and he's one of the easiest characters for us to gimp in the game. Us being light and him having a few decent ranged moves is his only grace in that MU.

let's not get off topic tho, if you want to discuss MUs further use the social thread, MU thread, SeanS's MU thread, etc. not here.

 

[RAzul]

Let's hope he gets something that will really help him, much like how version 1.0.8 made our Down Tilt and Back Air so much better.

I'm eagerly awaiting a Forward Air buff so it kills again.

Honestly, the main thing he needs is ground cancel able moves. It's his biggest flaw in my opinion and it's ridiculous that he has so much lag upon landing a fair. Yeah, the bair landing lag was reduced...but so what? It helps but he's still laggy and he's light too. He legit NEEDS that buff. His combo game would be reminiscent of that in Brawl and he would be more viable. I love G&W but this is a big setback for him. He has to space well and half a solid off stage game to win,m. His neutral shouldn't be so bad. It's dash attack, bair and fair. Predictable and ridiculous.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

I wish customs were mainstream, chain judge with this update is soooo good.

 

[Furret24]

I wish customs were mainstream, chain judge with this update is soooo good.

Really?

I'm going to have to try this out.