Data Mr Frame&Data- Frame Data information + KO%

lllp3lll · Dec 20, 2014

Here's some frame data I've found for G&W.

BEGIN gamewatch

**********

Jab1

Frame 4- 5: 3% 100f/20w 85°

Frame 4- 5: 3% 100f/10w 83°

Frame 4- 5: 3% 100f/5w 83°

Max Damage: 3%

Article generated on real frame 1

Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 12

Repeating Jab End

Frame 2- 2: 2% 60b/180g (KO@ 262%) 50° 2.0-Hitlag

Max Damage: 2%

Dash Attack

Frame 6- 9: 10%(+1) 70b/70g (KO@ 201%) 50°

Frame 10-19: 6.5%(+1) 70b/70g (KO@ 292%) 50°

Max Damage: 10%

F-tilt (normal)

Frame 10-10: 10% 35b/100g (KO@ 160%) 361°

Frame 10-10: 9% 35b/100g (KO@ 177%) 361°

Frame 11-17: 4% 35b/100g (KO@ 337%) 361°

Max Damage: 10%

U-tilt

Frame 10-12: 7% 20b/127g (KO@ 209%) 100°

Frame 10-12: 7% 20b/125g (KO@ 212%) 100°

Frame 20-22: 7% 20b/127g (KO@ 202%) 100°

Frame 20-22: 7% 20b/125g (KO@ 205%) 100°

Max Damage: 14%

D-tilt

Frame 6-11: 6% 10b/120g (KO@ 227%) 30° Ground-Target-Only

Frame 7-19: [1%]x3 60b/100g (KO@ 626%) 90° 0.0-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Aerial-Target-Only

Max Damage: 6%

Article generated on real frame 1

F-smash (normal)

Frame 17-18: 18% 48b/91g (KO@ 101%) 53° Fire

Frame 17-18: 14% 44b/100g (KO@ 125%) 53°

Max Damage: 18%

Article generated on real frame 1

Smash charge window on real frame 8

U-smash

Frame 24-25: 16% 40b/93g (KO@ 114%) 83°

Max Damage: 16%

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Smash charge window on real frame 18

End partial invincibility on real frame 26

D-smash

Frame 15-19: 15% 60b/85g (KO@ 117%) 80°

Frame 15-19: 13% 30b/65g (KO@ 178%) 20°

Max Damage: 15%

Smash charge window on real frame 8

Nair

Frame 7- 7: 5% 100f/30w 160°

Frame 7- 7: 5% 20b/70g (KO@ 497%) 90°

Frame 12-12: 4% 100f/30w 160°

Frame 12-12: 4% 20b/70g (KO@ 576%) 90°

Frame 17-17: 4% 100f/30w 160°

Frame 17-17: 4% 20b/70g (KO@ 572%) 90°

Frame 22-22: 4% 40b/150g (KO@ 235%) 70°

Max Damage: 17%

Article generated on real frame 1

Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 3

Cancels transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 57

Fair

Frame 10-11: 11.5% 30b/86g (KO@ 171%) 361°

Frame 12-25: 6% 10b/80g (KO@ 370%) 361°

Max Damage: 11.5%

Enables transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 3

Cancels transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 42

Bair

Frame 10-13: [2%]x3 100f/40w 25° 1.5-Hitlag Slash

Frame 10-13: [2%]x3 30b/40g 366° 1.5-Hitlag Slash

Frame 22-22: 3% 30b/170g (KO@ 239%) 361° 2.5-Hitlag Slash

Max Damage: 9%

Article generated on real frame 1

Enables transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 10

Cancels transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 38

Uair

Frame 6-12: 7% 20b/60g (KO@ 449%) 94°

Frame 6-12: 0% 100f/120w 80° Unblockable

Frame 6-12: 0% 100f/70w 80° Unblockable

Frame 20-22: 9% 55b/98g (KO@ 165%) 90°

Frame 20-22: 0% 100f/120w 80° Unblockable

Frame 20-22: 0% 100f/70w 80° Unblockable

Max Damage: 16%

Article generated on real frame 1

Enables transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 6

Dair

Frame 12-13: 11% 20b/106g (KO@ 217%) 270° Pierce

Frame 14-38: 11% 20b/106g (KO@ 186%) 60° Pierce

Max Damage: 11%

Enables transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 6

Bair Landing

Frame 1- 2: 3% 90b/120g (KO@ 261%) 68° Slash

Max Damage: 3%

Dair Landing

Frame 1- 2: 3.5% 60b/50g (KO@ 615%) 40°

Max Damage: 3.5%

Grab

Frame 6- 7: Grab

Enables state transition on real frame 8

Dash Grab

Frame 8- 9: Grab

Enables state transition on real frame 10

Pivot Grab

Frame 9-10: Grab

Enables state transition on real frame 11

Pummel

Frame 13-13: 3.2% 100f/30w 361°

Max Damage: 3.2%

F-throw

Frame 1- 2: 8% 100b/40g (KO@ 386%) 58°

Max Damage: 8%

B-throw

Frame 1- 2: 8% 100b/40g (KO@ 386%) 58°

Max Damage: 8%

U-throw

Frame 1- 2: 8% 100b/40g (KO@ 322%) 90°

Max Damage: 8%

D-throw

Frame 1- 2: 4% 35b/120g (KO@ 309%) 80°

Max Damage: 4%

unknown substate 0x20e

Frame 24-25: 16% 40b/93g (KO@ 114%) 83°

Max Damage: 16%

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Begins partial invincibility on real frame 4

Smash charge window on real frame 18

End partial invincibility on real frame 26

Chef (pan hit)

Frame 18-20: 5% 60b/30g (KO@ 682%) 10° Fire

Max Damage: 5%

XXL Chef (pan hit)

Frame 29-32: 2% 80b/75g (KO@ 588%) 55° Fire

Max Damage: 2%

Short-Order Chef (pan hit)

Frame 16-20: 0.5% 50b/10g 85° Fire

Max Damage: 0.5%

Judge 1

Frame 1- 2: 2% 0b/0g 361°

Max Damage: 2%

Extreme Judge 1

Frame 1- 2: 5% 25b/55g (KO@ 567%) 361°

Max Damage: 5%

Chain Judge 1

Frame 1- 4: 1% 0b/0g 45°

Max Damage: 1%

Judge 2

Frame 1- 2: 4% 10b/40g 361° 0.2-Trip

Max Damage: 4%

Chain Judge 2

Frame 1- 3: 3% 100f/40w 75° 1.3-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 3: 3% 100f/40w 367° 1.3-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 4- 7: 2% 20b/20g 45° 2.0-Hitlag

Max Damage: 5%

Judge 3

Frame 1- 2: 6%(+25) 45b/50g (KO@ 473%) 140°

Max Damage: 6%

Chain Judge 3

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x2 100f/40w 75° 1.3-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x2 100f/40w 367° 1.3-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 7-10: 3% 30b/30g 45° 2.0-Hitlag

Max Damage: 9%

Judge 4

Frame 1- 2: 8% 50b/40g (KO@ 454%) 40° Slash

Max Damage: 8%

Chain Judge 4

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x3 100f/40w 75° 1.3-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x3 100f/40w 367° 1.3-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 10-13: 2% 40b/40g 45° 2.2-Hitlag

Max Damage: 11%

Judge 5

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x4 40b/80g (KO@ 554%) 75° Electric

Max Damage: 12%

Chain Judge 5

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x4 100f/40w 75° 1.4-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x4 100f/40w 367° 1.4-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 13-16: 3% 50b/50g (KO@ 765%) 45° 2.2-Hitlag

Max Damage: 15%

Judge 6

Frame 1- 2: 12% 30b/80g (KO@ 154%) 20° Fire

Max Damage: 12%

Extreme Judge 6 (unused)

Frame 1- 2: 12% 30b/80g (KO@ 154%) 20° Fire

Max Damage: 12%

Chain Judge 6

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x5 100f/40w 75° 1.4-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 3: [3%]x5 100f/40w 367° 1.4-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 16-18: 2% 60b/60g (KO@ 735%) 45° 2.2-Hitlag

Max Damage: 17%

Judge 7

Frame 1- 2: 14% 30b/50g (KO@ 252%) 361°

Max Damage: 14%

Chain Judge 7

Frame 1- 2: [2.5%]x6 100f/40w 75° 1.6-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 2: [2.5%]x6 100f/40w 367° 1.6-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 13-16: 4% 70b/70g (KO@ 376%) 45° 2.4-Hitlag

Max Damage: 19%

Judge 8

Frame 1- 2: 9% 100f/70w 80° Ice

Max Damage: 9%

Chain Judge 8

Frame 1- 2: [2.4%]x7 100f/40w 75° 1.6-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 2: [2.4%]x7 100f/40w 367° 1.6-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 15-18: 4.2% 70b/60g (KO@ 425%) 45° 2.4-Hitlag

Max Damage: 21%

Judge 9

Frame 1- 2: 32% 100b/80g (KO@ 9%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag 0.0-SDI

Max Damage: 32%

Extreme Judge 9

Frame 1- 2: 23% 100b/90g (KO@ 26%) 361° 2.0-Hitlag 0.0-SDI

Max Damage: 23%

Chain Judge 9

Frame 1- 2:[2.25%]x8 100f/40w 75° 1.5-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 1- 2:[2.25%]x8 100f/40w 367° 1.5-Hitlag 0.2-SDI

Frame 17-18: 10% 90b/185g (KO@ 33%) 45° 2.5-Hitlag

Max Damage: 28%

Fire

Frame 2- 8: 0% 100f/120w 75°

Frame 9-29: 6% 60b/80g (KO@ 259%) 361°

Max Damage: 6%

Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 14

Enables state transition on real frame 33

Heavy Trampoline

Frame 8- 8: 16% 55b/75g (KO@ 148%) 60°

Frame 9-10: 10% 45b/65g (KO@ 267%) 75°

Max Damage: 16%

Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 12

Enables state transition on real frame 21

Trampoline High Jump

Frame 12-12: 12% 65b/90g (KO@ 131%) 90° 1.25-Hitlag

Frame 12-12: 8% 75b/85g (KO@ 195%) 75°

Max Damage: 12%

Enables forward ledge grabs on real frame 18

Oil Panic (ground, hit)

Frame 2- 7: 1% 30b/80g (KO@ 885%) 361°

Max Damage: 1%

Efficient Panic (ground, hit)

Frame 2- 7: 1% 30b/70g 45°

Frame 15-26: 1% 30b/70g 40°

Max Damage: 1%

Panic Overload (ground, hit)

Frame 2- 7: 1% 10b/60g 361°

Frame 8-14: 1% 10b/65g 361°

Max Damage: 1%

Panic Overload (aerial, hit)

Frame 2- 7: 1% 10b/60g 361°

Frame 8-14: 1% 10b/65g 361°

Max Damage: 1%

Final Smash

Enables state transition on real frame 8

Final Smash

Enables state transition on real frame 17

**********

END gamewatch

G&W's BACON

BEGIN gamewatch_food

**********

Chef (sausages)

Frame 1- 2: 4% 20b/50g (KO@ 853%) 70° 0.1-Trip

Max Damage: 4%

XXL Chef (sausages)

Frame 1- 2: 9% 45b/85g (KO@ 227%) 70° 1.8-Hitlag

Max Damage: 9%

Short-Order Chef (sausages)

Frame 1- 2: 2% 25b/10g 55° 0.1-Trip 0.5-Hitlag

Max Damage: 2%

Chef (steak)

Frame 1- 2: 4% 20b/50g (KO@ 853%) 70° 0.1-Trip

Max Damage: 4%

XXL Chef (steak)

Frame 1- 2: 8% 35b/75g (KO@ 305%) 70° 1.5-Hitlag

Max Damage: 8%

Short-Order Chef (steak)

Frame 1- 2: 1.5% 15b/10g 45° 0.1-Trip 0.5-Hitlag

Max Damage: 1.5%

Chef (skinny fish or fat fish)

Frame 1- 2: 4% 20b/50g (KO@ 853%) 70° 0.1-Trip

Max Damage: 4%

XXL Chef (skinny fish or fat fish)

Frame 1- 2: 7% 25b/65g (KO@ 420%) 70° 1.5-Hitlag

Max Damage: 7%

Short-Order Chef (skinny fish or fat fish)

Frame 1- 2: 1% 15b/10g 45° 0.1-Trip 0.1-Hitlag

Max Damage: 1%

Chef (skinny fish or fat fish)

Frame 1- 2: 4% 20b/50g (KO@ 853%) 70° 0.1-Trip

Max Damage: 4%

XXL Chef (skinny fish or fat fish)

Frame 1- 2: 7% 20b/55g (KO@ 512%) 70° 1.25-Hitlag

Max Damage: 7%

Short-Order Chef (skinny fish or fat fish)

Frame 1- 2: 1% 0b/0g 361° 0.1-Trip 0.0-Hitlag

Max Damage: 1%

**********

END gamewatch_food

BEGIN gamewatch_octopus

**********

Final Smash (body)

Frame 1- 2: 15% 30b/80g (KO@ 141%) 361° Unblockable

Max Damage: 15%

Final Smash (tentacle)

Frame 1-118: [15%]x2 30b/90g (KO@ 147%) 55° Slash Unblockable

Max Damage: 30%

**********

END gamewatch_octopus

TL;DR
Jab is 4 frame
D-tilt is our fastest tilt- 6 frames
Up-smash's invincibility starts on frame 4 and ends on frame 26-
- Up-smash's hit box comes out on frame 24
Food from chef can trip.
Uair wins fastest aerial- 6 frames
2nd place Nair 7 frames

TOP KO MOVES (Custom Move*) (Sweetspot*)

1. Judge 9 KO@9%
2. Extreme Judge 9 KO@26%
3. Chain Judge 9 KO@33%
4. F-smash KO@101%
5. U-smash KO@114%
6. D-smash KO@117%
7. F-smash KO@125%
8. Trampoline High Jump KO@131%
9. Heavy Trampoline KO@148%
10. Judge 6 KO@154%
11. F-tilt KO@160%
12. Uair KO@165%
13. Fair KO@171%
14. F-tilt KO@177%
15. D-smash KO@178%

No rage / Average Mii / Final Destination (starting position)

-------------------------

Combo Section

General Strings:

Fast Falled / Weak Nair:
Weak Nair > D-smash
Weak Nair > up-tilt (inconsistent, size dependent)
Weak Nair > grab
Weak Nair > jab

Up-tilt > Up-tilt (low % heavies)
Up-tilt > Nair (low% BNB)
Up-tilt > up-B (easier BNB)

D-tilt > d-smash (d-tilt pushes them into d-smash sweet-spot)

Aerial Nair > Aerial Nair
Aerial Nair > Up-air
Aerial Nair > Up-B

Special/Character Specific

Fast Fall'er dthrow combo's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4GTuBofvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Lj5sSU1Rc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_KyKZIyy1M

ff nair > footstool > Dair

Chef regrab string
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fii5NFOLJ_M&feature=youtu.be

Legit 4 hit sheik combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brRJKXyrbsM
Sheik Grab combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWC_xgW2DNk

FFnair > footstool > Dair > Judge 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGbTIWic5WA&feature=youtu.be

chef to footstool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoh9avuNNCI

GW Hoo Hah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmB2-EeDHfg

0-70% on diddy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVDZn7KO7A

Death Combo

Death Combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOkc_xLfnQ
OOS Upsmash is super scary now.

Work on these characters at the listed % or under

Mario- 3%
Luigi- 2%
Bowser- 6%
Wario- 4%
DK- 2%
Diddy- 3%
G&W- 1%
Lil Mac- 3%
Link- 2%
Sheik- 2%
Gannon- 1%
ZSS- 4%
Pit- 2%
Palutena- 2%
Ike- 2%
Robin- 0%
D3- 1%
Meta Knight- 1%
Fox- 3%
Falco- 2%
Pika- 1%
Zard- 2%
Lucario- 0%
Greninja- 3%
ROB- 2%
Captain Falcon- 8%
Shulk- 2%
Dr Mario- 2%
Megaman- 7%

Characters not listed, doesn't work on. (Mostly Zoners: Samus, Toon Link, Duck Hunt, Villager etc.)

To sum up: If GW lands a upsmash on a fresh stock, the cooldown of upsmash is so small the you can follow up with an unavoidable (combo) SideB. And if said sideB is a 9, the 16% from upsmash can and most likely result in a ohko (on 90% of the cast).

Upsmash > judge 9
Is a true death combo on most of the cast.

JUDGE COMBO TREE

Assuming you can place 4-5ish % on your opponent (jab1 > grab or Chef food > grab) they'll be in the realm of OHKO or an edge-guard situation if you land a 9.

Here's what to follow up from Judge numbers.

- JUDGE NO# > High risk (Damage) / Med risk (gamble) / Low risk (safest / guaranteed damage)

1 > Raise Shield
1 >Up-B
1 > Jab1

2 Trip > D-smash
2 Trip > Side-B
2 Trip > Dash-grab

3 > Behind Side-B
3 > Turn grab
3 > D-smash

4 > GO to neutral

5 > Nair
5 > Jump Side-B

6 > Reset to Neutral

7 > Dash Attack (consume apple)
7 > Jab1 > Jab1 (consume apple)
7 > Jab (consume apple) > Go to neutral

8 > Jump Side-B NOTE: While frozen a 6 will melt the ice letting them escape.
8 > Nair

9 > Taunt
Example:
3, 2, 1, GO!
I space with chef and land a sausage
I go in for a dash grab.

Grab > D-throw > Judge 1 > Jab1 > Grab > D-throw > Judge 8 > Jump Judge 2 > Judge 9 > Taunt
or
Grab > D-throw > Judge 3 > Behind Side-B > Judge 6 > Neutral

FAQ.
Opponents combo breaking with a fast aerial?
D-throw > Shield > Shield grab
D-throw >Shield > OOS UpB
D-throw > Up-smash

Opponents escaping with a movement option?
D-throw>Nair
D-throw>UpB

Dr. Robotnik · Dec 23, 2014

holy **** this is cool. is the "unknown substate" at line 122 his up-B? how long is the invincibility?

lllp3lll · Dec 24, 2014

Line 215 - "Fire" refers to his up-B, it doesn't list the move as having invincibility but could have something else placed on it not shown in this code.

Line 122 could be an unused command line for his Up smash.

----------------------

My "go-to" strings now that I've been playing around with the frame data are:

Fast Falled / Weak Nair:
Weak Nair > D-smash
Weak Nair > up-tilt (inconsistent, size dependent)
Weak Nair > grab
Weak Nair > jab

Up-tilt > Up-tilt (low % heavies)
Up-tilt > Nair (low% BNB)
Up-tilt > up-B (easier BNB)

D-tilt > d-smash (d-tilt pushes them into d-smash sweet-spot)

Aerial Nair > Aerial Nair
Aerial Nair > Up-air
Aerial Nair > Up-B

------------------------------------------------
Ground Landing Traps: Up-Smash is King

@ low%
D-throw > Up-tilt > Up-smash (Up-smash will eat most aerials if timed right)

Up-smash > Up-smash (Landing up-smash @ low% puts them in the same position where you can bully their landing with another Up-smash)

Up-smash > Side-B

------------------------------------------
Fair > Weak Fair > (forced get up) > anything???
If they miss a tech from strong Fair and your close enough, you can hit them with weak Fair and make them forced get up,

Deleted member · Dec 26, 2014

I may sound dumb for asking, but could this somehow relate to/explain the 'changes' he got in 1.0.4? There appears to be some extra information added on a few of his moves.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=gamewatch&mode=diff102#

Dr. Robotnik · Dec 27, 2014

id like to know as well

lllp3lll · Dec 27, 2014

1337President said:
I may sound dumb for asking, but could this somehow relate to/explain the 'changes' he got in 1.0.4? There appears to be some extra information added on a few of his moves.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=gamewatch&mode=diff102#

"290" gained an extra line of code, not sure what it effected.

"22D" was given a hitbox which it previously didn't have. The new hitbox does 12 damage.

lllp3lll · Dec 29, 2014

TOP KO MOVES (Custom Move*) (Sweetspot*)

1. Judge 9 KO@9%
2. Extreme Judge 9 KO@26%
3. Chain Judge 9 KO@33%
4. F-smash KO@101%
5. U-smash KO@114%
6. D-smash KO@117%
7. F-smash KO@125%
8. Trampoline High Jump KO@131%
9. Heavy Trampoline KO@148%
10. Judge 6 KO@154%
11. F-tilt KO@160%
12. Uair KO@165%
13. Fair KO@171%
14. F-tilt KO@177%
15. D-smash KO@178%

No rage / Average Mii / Final Destination (starting positions)

Dr. Robotnik · Dec 31, 2014

so, you can jump out of Fire after doing an attack Fire >attack > ability to do everything cept fire again.

A2ZOMG · Dec 31, 2014

I'm so annoyed they killed all the lingering hitboxes on G&W's Smashes except on D-smash. F-smash was great when you could catch spotdodges with it. Have to retrain myself to rely on F-tilt more in this game.

Lavani · Dec 31, 2014

1337President said:
I may sound dumb for asking, but could this somehow relate to/explain the 'changes' he got in 1.0.4? There appears to be some extra information added on a few of his moves.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=gamewatch&mode=diff102#

22D (Judge 6) gained two extra hitboxes. Not really sure how it affects the attack overall.

Not really sure what 290 is.

Neb · Jan 8, 2015

OP...

is ff nair > footstool > soft fair > ??? realistic?

lllp3lll · Jan 8, 2015

Neb said:
OP...

is ff nair > footstool > soft fair > ??? realistic?

Doesn't sound realistic but I'll play around with it.

------------------
I've been working on a combo tree for Judge

Assuming you can place 4-5ish % on your opponent (jab1 > grab or Chef food > grab) they'll be in the realm of OHKO or an edge-guard situation if you land a 9.

Here's what to follow up from Judge numbers.

- JUDGE NO# > High risk (Damage) / Med risk (gamble) / Low risk (safest / guaranteed damage)

1 > Raise Shield
1 > Up-B
1 > Jab1

2 Trip > D-smash
2 Trip > Side-B
2 Trip > Dash-grab

3 > Behind Side-B
3 > Turn grab
3 > D-smash

4 > GO to neutral

5 > Nair
5 > Jump Side-B

6 > Reset to Neutral

7 > Dash Attack (consume apple)
7 > Jab1 > Jab1 (consume apple)
7 > Jab (consume apple) > Go to neutral

8 > Jump Side-B NOTE: While frozen a 6 will melt the ice letting them escape.
8 > Nair

9 > Taunt

Example:
3, 2, 1, GO!
I space with chef and land a sausage
I go in for a dash grab.

Grab > D-throw > Judge 1 > Jab1 > Grab > D-throw > Judge 8 > Jump Judge 2 > Judge 9 > Taunt
or
Grab > D-throw > Judge 3 > Behind Side-B > Judge 6 > Neutral

FAQ.
Opponents combo breaking with a fast aerial?
D-throw > Shield > Shield grab
D-throw > Shield > OOS UpB
D-throw > Up-smash

Opponents escaping with a movement option?
D-throw>Nair
D-throw>UpB

lllp3lll · Jan 8, 2015

Neb said:
OP...

is ff nair > footstool > soft fair > ??? realistic?

No way your getting fair to hit after that footstool. Also opponent needs to be +100& for ff nair to send them high enough for a aerial footstool.

ff nair > footstool > Dair

*Dair's spike hitbox. FF Uair also works / easier.

This is a jab lock setup.

They have 2 chances to tech.
1 .Dair spiking them into the stage.
2. Hitting the stage for the second time after bouncing off from Dair.
Dair needs to hit them after 31% to spike. If used before u will not get a spike but have a chance of the character tripping.

I'd recommend using Judge after Dair as Judge 1 and 2 seem to jab lock in this situation.
This would be amazing for Extreme Judge if customs are allowed.

Neb · Jan 8, 2015

Bummer. But thanks for looking that over, P3.

Your alternative option gave me somewhat of an idea. Fast falling characters are often able to shield (etc) our dthrow follow-ups at early percentages. From my own assessment, a footstool absolutely crushes that option.

Testing Fox and Captain Falcon, I cannot see "Dthrow > Footstool > Dair" being humanly possible to avoid. It appears that G&W's footstool is reliable from 0 - 75% -- giving the choice of an immediate dair follow-up or tech chase scenario. On a fresh stock I was also able to "dthrow > footstool dair > buffered dash grab > repeat" up to 3 times with some DI adjustment. The grab can be easily replaced for dash attack.

Something to consider also, Upb angled into the opponent creates a tech chase from 0-mid%. One may be able to DI the tech, but I have no way of confirming.

lllp3lll · Jan 18, 2015

potato video's

Fast Fall'er dthrow combo's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4GTuBofvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Lj5sSU1Rc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_KyKZIyy1M

Neb · Jan 19, 2015

I'll be away from my console the next few months, however, I was testing a "chain grab" the other week. Maybe you will explore this for me... I used Ness, still it shouldn't matter once the opponents at a certain percentage. Dthrow > chef > repeat. You'll have to play with the number of food you toss. At times I was able to catch them in more. Aim to do this when the % puts your opponent just above the pan.

SFA Smiley · Jan 20, 2015

lllp3lll said:
potato video's

Fast Fall'er dthrow combo's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF4GTuBofvg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Lj5sSU1Rc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_KyKZIyy1M

Amazing. This is great thanks. Is this yours?

lllp3lll · Jan 20, 2015

Yes they are, thanks Smiley.

I'll make a clip of the jab lock from nair as well, and test out that chain grab.

lllp3lll · Jan 20, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fii5NFOLJ_M&feature=youtu.be
I used a jab since jab is faster than grab
If they have a fast aerial you'll have to respect it and use a shield grab.
If they air-dodge food- that's landing lag
They need to be around 25%+ or you'll combo into the pan hit of chef
You can be greedy and do:
Dthrow> chef > chef > jab > regrab

Its kinda useful as a mix-up to normal dthrow combo's. But a grab at 0% should put them at least at 50% with g&w anyway.

Neb · Jan 21, 2015

Looks good. 60-70% from a grab punish demands respect, but I imagine if we can push the envelope -- say 75-90% -- it would counterbalance our light weight/short lifespan, and force the opponent to approach by creating a damage gap. Pummelling helps. Sweetspot fsmash does 2% more than usmash, and also sets our edgeguard. Every direction but dthrow deals 8%.

After I add a pummel and upb to your string on C. Falcon, G&W delivers 77% damage

lllp3lll · Jan 23, 2015

Legit 4 hit sheik combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brRJKXyrbsM

Sheik Grab combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWC_xgW2DNk

Neb · Jan 23, 2015

Really enjoyed the ending of the second clip. But there are likely some doors for escape.

Edit: Noticed G&W was at a significant frame advantage on the second fair -- true combo. Did you use the frame/hitlag sync?

lllp3lll · Jan 23, 2015

After around 28% Strong Fair starts making them bounce off the ground, so if they miss the tech Fair > Dash attack works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGbTIWic5WA&feature=youtu.be
FFnair > footstool > Dair > Judge 1
Seems like a jablock, the height they are launched seems to depend on the fish from Nair. Don't know if this is usable or not.

Neb · Jan 24, 2015

I would think so, since it gives benefit to Judgement 1. Which then lessens the risk of using sideB as whole, and provides a solid setup opportunity.

X3I · Jan 24, 2015

Thanks for the Dthrow > footstool > Dair, I was in need of a low % grab combos against Fox/Falcon/Sheik/etc...

One thing I love to do is Sourspot Fair > Uair right before the landing (so it does only one hit), and then I combo with UpSmash/Nair/whatever. A good setup for this can be, on Samus: Dthrow > Utilt > Nair > Fair > Uair > UpSmash... Pretty sure it's not a true combo, but it's just so you can imagine what I'm saying. That can be something good to exploit.

lllp3lll · Jan 24, 2015

X3I you just gave me a nice idea for a string.

Dthrow > Uptilt > Bair > Pivot Chef > Regrab

Neb · Jan 30, 2015

P3, do you mind gathering some data on G&W's rage? KO options, or even changes to hitbox trajectory.

Edit - In my imagination, G&W's meta is going to weigh heavily on knowing vortex options on all members of the cast for safe damage racking. Being a light character. But having his KO options opened up with rage could possibly provide the tools for an evade-and-snipe type of conversion at high percents. Especially with # 1 Judge (*

A2ZOMG ).

Edit - Our grab has to be one of the top in this game.

lllp3lll · Jan 31, 2015

I like the idea and see him turning into the new Ice Climbers in terms of fearing his grab.

KO options generally KO 10-15% earlier when in rage.
But i'll look into it.

A2ZOMG · Jan 31, 2015

Neb said:
P3, do you mind gathering some data on G&W's rage? KO options, or even changes to hitbox trajectory.

Edit - In my imagination, G&W's meta is going to weigh heavily on knowing vortex options on all members of the cast for safe damage racking. Being a light character. But having his KO options opened up with rage could possibly provide the tools for an evade-and-snipe type of conversion at high percents. Especially with # 1 Judge (* A2ZOMG ).

Edit - Our grab has to be one of the top in this game.

D-throw U-air I think is technically G&W's best KO option, but it's VERY percent/character specific. I personally have been too lazy to get a general sense of when I should be going for U-air for KOs, but I do think it's really important.

I wouldn't particularly rely on Judgement just as a way of abusing Rage. Actually using it as a punish (or followup out of D-throw) just generally speaking though is pretty viable. My main argument about the 1 is it's overall less awful to get a 1 in this game than in other Smash games.

lllp3lll · Jan 31, 2015

chef to footstool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoh9avuNNCI

Neb · Jan 31, 2015

Since a chance 9 is always looming with its use, I agree that judgement should be one of G&W's primary punishes. Tacking damage to oneself also quickens the possibility for death... There's an inherent risk to playing such a character, but honestly, it seems to equal out. Judgement as a punish lends the opponent no solid ground for retaliation given that the hitbox is always fluctuating.

lllp3lll · Jan 31, 2015

I think its a very viable style of gameplay for Extreme Judge.
Given that G&W is light also helps to break from low % combo's earlier than heavier characters.
Raising your own % could also benifit to avoid normal 0% combo's

X3I · Feb 2, 2015

G&W is definitely the best hype-maker.
Bucket, Judgement 9, stylish chaingrab, UpSmash invincibility, windbox kills, edgeguard...
He just makes everyone salty, ahah.

TheMiSP · Feb 2, 2015

So, (non-true) chain grab actually has to be dthrow > chef > jab1 > regrab?
I've been doing dthrow > chef > regrab

Also what should I do in general if they decide to jump behind you after dthrow?

lllp3lll · Feb 2, 2015

Cøllin_ said:
So, (non-true) chain grab actually has to be dthrow > chef > jab1 > regrab?
I've been doing dthrow > chef > regrab

Also what should I do in general if they decide to jump behind you after dthrow?

You can go straight to regrab from chef, but jab1 is faster so it may in fact stuff counter attack options which grab may lose to.

If they jump behind you after a dthrow (assuming you tried chef chain grab):
Chase with Nair
UpB
Trap with UpSmash

lllp3lll · Feb 2, 2015

We have a legit 0% death combo, testing it on the cast atm.
---------------------
GW Hoo Hah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmB2-EeDHfg

Death Combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOkc_xLfnQ
OOS Upsmash is super scary now.

Work on these characters at the listed % or under

Mario- 3%
Luigi- 2%
Bowser- 6%
Wario- 4%
DK- 2%
Diddy- 3%
G&W- 1%
Lil Mac- 3%
Link- 2%
Sheik- 2%
Gannon- 1%
ZSS- 4%
Pit- 2%
Palutena- 2%
Ike- 2%
Robin- 0%
D3- 1%
Meta Knight- 1%
Fox- 3%
Falco- 2%
Pika- 1%
Zard- 2%
Lucario- 0%
Greninja- 3%
ROB- 2%
Captain Falcon- 8%
Shulk- 2%
Dr Mario- 2%
Megaman- 7%

Characters not listed, doesn't work on. (Mostly Zoners: Samus, Toon Link, Duck Hunt, Villager etc.)

Neb · Feb 2, 2015

Would your "Hoo ha" combo zero death those zoners?

lllp3lll · Feb 3, 2015

Afraid not, a lucky combination of weight and/or hurtboxs would mean it would be a string and escapable via some method.

To sum up: If GW lands a upsmash on a fresh stock, the cooldown of upsmash is so small the you can follow up with an unavoidable (combo) SideB. And if said sideB is a 9, the 16% from upsmash can and most likely result in a ohko (on 90% of the cast).

Upsmash > judge 9
Is a true death combo on most of the cast.

X3I · Feb 3, 2015

Other players should fear a lot about our grab game, especially Judgement jankens.
We have thousand possibilities after a down throw, and Judgement is one.
What beats a grab ? A move. What beats a move ? Our UpSmash.
Which allows another Judgement... Vicious circle.

Neb · Feb 3, 2015

If P3 faithfully updates the OP, I would say this deserves a sticky. It is our most progressive thread on the simple basis of collective thought and cheap videos. The information should be universally known throughout our following. Clean up the OP and sticky.

Data Mr Frame&Data- Frame Data information + KO%

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Deleted member

Guest

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Legend

Indigo Destiny

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

The SFA King

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Legend

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Information

Network