Mother Series's Eternal Villain - Porky Support Thread (New Ownership!)

[FalKoopa]

Oh my.

Okay, I'll admit I was quite negative to Ninten in the OP; I frankly don't like the idea of Ninten being in Smash..., he looks better as a palette swap.

But regardless, this thread isn't anti-Ninten. It's aim is only to present Porky as better option than him.

 

[PK-Omelette]

...Wait what?

You mean the very minor details between the two? He doesn't even have a belt...

Characters are modified over time (notice how on his model he doesn't have it around his neck like in pretty much every picture drawn of him). The belt thing is also a reference to the... wait, are you saying you haven't already seen it? Plus even in this there is some noticeable differences, again going back to the exact same things I mentioned before.

I think you'd get more accurate depictions concerning them all drawn together, like in this:

(yes, Ninten is holding a pink Ocarina)

Ninten not only has different hair, eyes, cap [top is blue and bill is darker, the red is also closer to orange hue over Ness's basic red cap/also depicted in clay models], has eyebrows [lol, poor Ness], round head/different face, shoes and socks (shirt is arguable I suppose considering the favored would be his red white and blue striped one). Considering the basis for M2/EB cast was meant to build on the original cast, Ninten isn't the only "look alike". With the exception of Poo (and by your standard of clone), all members of the Mother2/EB, despite having some rather obvious differences, are exact copies of Mother 1/EB0.

 

[PK-Omelette]

Oh my.

Okay, I'll admit I was quite negative to Ninten in the OP; I frankly don't like the idea of Ninten being in Smash..., he looks better as a palette swap.

But regardless, this thread isn't anti-Ninten. It's aim is only to present Porky as better option than him.

Palette swap...?
Anyway, thank you for understanding, and I know it is to present Pokey in that way. Does it mean I cannot ask the logic of why though? After all, if he is to be a brawler, what I've asked is simply the basic ground for Pokey, nothing more. IF it cannot be grounded, then I cannot support Pokey due to logical issues.

 

[AEMehr]

Characters are modified over time (notice how on his model he doesn't have it around his neck like in pretty much every picture drawn of him). The belt thing is also a reference to the... wait, are you saying you haven't already seen it? Plus even in this there is some noticeable differences, again going back to the exact same things I mentioned before.

I think you'd get more accurate depictions concerning them all drawn together, like in this:

(yes, Ninten is holding a pink Ocarina)

Ninten not only has different hair, eyes, cap [top is blue and bill is darker, the red is also closer to orange hue over Ness's basic red cap/also depicted in clay models], has eyebrows [lol, poor Ness], round head/different face, shoes and socks (shirt is arguable I suppose considering the favored would be his red white and blue striped one). Considering the basis for M2/EB cast was meant to build on the original cast, Ninten isn't the only "look alike". With the exception of Poo (and by your standard of clone), all members of the Mother2/EB, despite having some rather obvious differences, are exact copies of Mother 1/EB0.

Except that is fanart.
Not his official design.

His official design is this.

Anybody without any knowledge of Mother / Earthbound would just blantly call Ninten Ness.
Not to mention, would you imagine being stuck in a match with two of each of these guys? You'd always have to focus on Ness's backpack to keep track of who you are in the middle of the match.

 

[FalKoopa]

In any case, Ninten and Ness are about as different in appearance as Mario or Luigi.

And seeing that Luigi is still a semi-clone even after two games, expecting Ninten to be fully unique from Ness or Lucas is really expecting too much.

That's primarily why I'm not in favour of Ninten.

 

[PK-Omelette]

In any case, Ninten and Ness are about as different in appearance as Mario or Luigi.

And seeing that Luigi is still a semi-clone even after two games, expecting Ninten to be fully unique from Ness or Lucas is really expecting too much.

That's primarily why I'm not in favour of Ninten.

You know, it's really funny you bring up Mario and Luigi considering Ness and Ninten's heights are different too XD (plus their ages are a year apart).
Expecting Ninten to be fully unique in 100% of the way is impossible, and I agree it really would be expecting to much. Remember Lucas was considered a Ness clone by some players of Brawl too, so physically appearance wise I really don't think 100% is possible with Ninten. However Ninten really does have the potential to be 100% unique from the other 2 via move set, speed and his weight class being lighter (for obvious reasons). He might be called a "look alike", but at the dismissal of everything but the red if his cap and blue of his shorts.

 

[PK-Omelette]

Except that is fanart.
Not his official design.

His official design is this.

Anybody without any knowledge of Mother / Earthbound would just blantly call Ninten Ness.
Not to mention, would you imagine being stuck in a match with two of each of these guys? You'd always have to focus on Ness's backpack to keep track of who you are in the middle of the match.

Okey dokey, you've officially proven you haven't seen the Mother 1 commercial in which the line, "no crying until the ending" originates from, as well as his belt, red white and blue striped shirt and... you get the idea. I hope the official release will convince you otherwise on his official design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQUN7QAnMp0

 

[AEMehr]

Okey dokey, you've officially proven you haven't seen the Mother 1 commercial in which the line, "no crying until the ending" originates from, as well as his belt, red white and blue striped shirt and... you get the idea. I hope the official release will convince you otherwise on his official design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQUN7QAnMp0

Except his official design is the image I have posted.

I've seen that video several times, but it's not his official design.

 

[FalKoopa]

Well, would it be considered rude if I asked you move the discussion to the Mother series discussion thread or the Ninten thread?

Really, hardly any of this is about Porky.

 

[PK-Omelette]

Except his official design is the image I have posted.

I've seen that video several times, but it's not his official design.

Poor quality and bad art skills (which have clearly improved over time) shouldn't punish a character, should it? I mean, say if Itoi wants to make a new official design for Ninten by remaking the old one, how likey do you think it is that it would turn out like that one did? As mentioned before, the games graphics in Mother 1 are also horrible. If he remade it for say... the 3DS, how much do you think it would change in appearance if he gave Ninten the same playground as he gave Ness and Lucas? The person who played for Ninten in the commercial didn't need to be so different from Ninten, so the question arises as to why portray him in such? Mother 3's story changed after it gave up on N64 (Giygas theme from Mother 3 anyone?), and seeing the preview of that and comparing it to the one that was released, some other aspects indeed changed too (though most are really quite small).
I have no doubt in my mind if Ninten was re-published onto another game, his design would change to be improved

 

[PK-Omelette]

Well, would it be considered rude if I asked you move the discussion to the Mother series discussion thread or the Ninten thread?

Really, hardly any of this is about Porky.

You're right this has derailed. Perhaps to re-rail (I have no idea if that's the correct term or not) the discussion would be best?

Would you like me to re-post my questions about Porky or would you prefer if you just addressed them in a reply to this?

 

[grizby2]

this is getting off topic.

IVYSAUR.

by the way, has anyone made a non-mech porky moveset?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

this is getting off topic.

IVYSAUR.

by the way, has anyone made a non-mech porky moveset?

I'd say that Porky's moveset potential without a mech is rather... limited, as in:

• Complains to Ness.
• Uses Ness as a shield.
• Pretends to cry.
• Smiles insincerely.
• Plays dead.
• Thinks to himself.
• Apologizes profusely.
• Tries to edge closer to the enemy.
• Acts all innocent.

 

[FalKoopa]

this is getting off topic.

IVYSAUR.

by the way, has anyone made a non-mech porky moveset?

A complete non-mech moveset would require quite a bit of imagination, since you always fight in his mech.

Or it could be based on complaining to Ness, playing dead, or using Ness as a shield.

The Doc Ock Porky idea is quite popular, though.

 

[grizby2]

I'd say that Porky's moveset potential without a mech is rather... limited, as in:

• Complains to Ness.
• Uses Ness as a shield.
• Pretends to cry.
• Smiles insincerely.
• Plays dead.
• Thinks to himself.
• Apologizes profusely.
• Tries to edge closer to the enemy.
• Acts all innocent.

ye olde worthless temporary one-scene party member moveset.
heck, even in the last boss fight he BAILS on you.

also, young porky or old porky?

 

[PK-Omelette]

ye olde worthless temporary one-scene party member moveset.
heck, even in the last boss fight he BAILS on you.

also, young porky or old porky?

10,000 year old ****** snorlax-Eggman hybrid or a 13 year old ****** snorlax-Eggman hybrid
HHHHMMMMMM
But seriously young Pokey. Weight and height class seems more within realism of a brawler

 

[grizby2]

Weight and height class seems more within realism of a brawler

use those words very.. VERY rarely. or someone might hear.

im pretty sure doc-oc porky would be a good size in either age.
id also like to note that porky's mech in earthbound is probably the same size as boswer really.
COUGHCOUGHCOUGH

 

[MasterOfKnees]

also, young porky or old porky?

Young, he struck me as much more evil, sinister and douchey in the Giygas fight, rather than old Porky in Mother 3 where he was pretty pitiful himself.

 

[PK-Omelette]

use those words very.. VERY rarely. or someone might hear.

im pretty sure doc-oc porky would be a good size in either age.
id also like to note that porky's mech in earthbound is probably the same size as boswer really.
COUGHCOUGHCOUGH

Bowser on Brawl vs Porky through the-wait, why am I telling you this? Bowser is smaller than heavily armed Porky. Heck, you'd need either a shroom or giga if you want to pair height with him.
Anyway, young Pokey is what, about the same height as Ness? He'd definitely be heavier because of the equipment and therefore slower (kinda like Samus when you think about it). Heavily armored would be even heavier and bigger than young Pokey (the concept of it holding a ledge still baffles me simply due to its enormous size)

EDIT: It appears I misread your comment. I didn't catch at first you were referring to EB. My reference to Pokey vs Porky is Doc Oc vs M3 HA. My mistake

 

[grizby2]

Young, he struck me as much more evil, sinister and douchey in the Giygas fight, rather than old Porky in Mother 3 where he was pretty pitiful himself.

well yes. that's mainly because it was giygas controlling him.
and since there wasn't giygas in mother 3, he just kinda accepted that what he has done was bad. but he was living the good life, so he just kinda rolled with it.

 

[grizby2]

sorry for posting 2 times in a row

Bowser on Brawl vs Porky through the-wait, why am I telling you this? Bowser is smaller than heavily armed Porky. Heck, you'd need either a shroom or giga if you want to pair height with him.
Anyway, young Pokey is what, about the same height as Ness? He'd definitely be heavier because of the equipment and therefore slower (kinda like Samus when you think about it). Heavily armored would be even heavier and bigger than young Pokey (the concept of it holding a ledge still baffles me simply due to its enormous size)

nooooo that's the MOTHER 3 porky mech. im talking about the EARTHBOUND one, the organic-y mech.
pixle-wise, that thing is no bigger than bowser.

 

[PK-Omelette]

sorry for posting 2 times in a row

nooooo that's the MOTHER 3 porky mech. im talking about the EARTHBOUND one, the organic-y mech.
pixle-wise, that thing is no bigger than bowser.

re-read comment.....above

 

[PK-Omelette]

well yes. that's mainly because it was giygas controlling him.
and since there wasn't giygas in mother 3, he just kinda accepted that what he has done was bad. but he was living the good life, so he just kinda rolled with it.

Oh, well in the final version there was no Giygas in M3, sure... (comment off topic)

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Even with the differences their awfully similar, sure, they wear different color shirts and hats different ways, but it just seems a little too, similar, even with the minor differences, you can give the argument of 2 links being in the game, but Sakurai, wanted both an adult and young link, because there are many games with a young version, while recent are usually adult. To me they're similar. Plus, who's to say Ninten won't get PK beam and the other offensive PSI. Ness only had Flash in Smash while the rest he didn't have. I hate to argue as a mother series fan, but I'd much prefer someone like MM or Porky.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Oh, well in the final version there was no Giygas in M3, sure... (comment off topic)

You mean "Lucas' Nightmare", I would provide pics but I'm typing this on my wiiU. That stuff is creepy as ****. Especially that one claus head... Anyways like you said off topic.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Characters are modified over time (notice how on his model he doesn't have it around his neck like in pretty much every picture drawn of him). The belt thing is also a reference to the... wait, are you saying you haven't already seen it? Plus even in this there is some noticeable differences, again going back to the exact same things I mentioned before.

Sorry to continue this, FalKoopa, but I just wanted to make my own input on this. For the sake of the thread, most of it will go in a spoiler.

Now, Omelette, notice that you keep using fanart. Those aren't official redesigns. That is non-official artwork. Official artwork is what appears in Smash Bros.
[collapse="Big stuff incoming"]
This is an official redesign.

This too, is an official redesign. This is what made it into Smash Bros.

This is an unofficial redesign.

This too is an unofficial redesign.

You could argue that Magikarp could be playable and distinct because it could look like that... But it doesn't. Same thing with Ninten. You could argue that Ninten could be playable and distinct from Ness because he could look like that. But he doesn't. He looks like this.

Sakurai won't be digging up the old commercial footage just to use the design of the boy that represented Ninten. It's not official artwork. It's not canon. Official artwork is canon. The only major changes to canon artwork when a character enters Smash Bros. is minor details that don't drastically change the appearance, like with Fox.

And, before you go reeling in any Pit or Ice Climber pictures, just remember that those are retro characters included specifically to fulfill Sakurai's wanted niche of representing classic NES titles. Ninten wouldn't be a NES representative. He would be a Mother representative, meaning he wouldn't get a drastic change to his appearance, only minor touch-ups, and no amount of minor touch-ups will stop Ninten from looking uncannily like Ness.

So stop using unofficial sources as credit towards Ninten being playable. People will take it as serious as they'll take MuscleKarp.
[/collapse]
All that said, Ninten discussion should go in the Ninten thread. This is a happy place, spankety.

You mean "Lucas' Nightmare", I would provide pics but I'm typing this on my wiiU. That stuff is creepy as ****. Especially that one claus head... Anyways like you said off topic.

The final battle was less exciting the way it was, but oh hell oh boy did it make the ending a lot less terrifying as well.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Sorry to continue this, FalKoopa, but I just wanted to make my own input on this. For the sake of the thread, most of it will go in a spoiler.


Now, Omelette, notice that you keep using fanart. Those aren't official redesigns. That is non-official artwork. Official artwork is what appears in Smash Bros.
[collapse="Big stuff incoming"]
This is an official redesign.



This too, is an official redesign. This is what made it into Smash Bros.



This is an unofficial redesign.



This too is an unofficial redesign.



You could argue that Magikarp could be playable and distinct because it could look like that... But it doesn't. Same thing with Ninten. You could argue that Ninten could be playable and distinct from Ness because he could look like that. But he doesn't. He looks like this.

Sakurai won't be digging up the old commercial footage just to use the design of the boy that represented Ninten. It's not official artwork. It's not canon. Official artwork is canon. The only major changes to canon artwork when a character enters Smash Bros. is minor details that don't drastically change the appearance, like with Fox.


And, before you go reeling in any Pit or Ice Climber pictures, just remember that those are retro characters included specifically to fulfill Sakurai's wanted niche of representing classic NES titles. Ninten wouldn't be a NES representative. He would be a Mother representative, meaning he wouldn't get a drastic change to his appearance, only minor touch-ups, and no amount of minor touch-ups will stop Ninten from looking uncannily like Ness.


So stop using unofficial sources as credit towards Ninten being playable. People will take it as serious as they'll take MuscleKarp.
[/collapse]
All that said, Ninten discussion should go in the Ninten thread. This is a happy place, spankety.



The final battle was less exciting the way it was, but oh hell oh boy did it make the ending a lot less terrifying as well.

Those eyes are staring into my soul, anyways, Porky was awesome in Brawl and I actually hope they get him in some sort of mech, maybe a spider mech that's around the size of bowser...

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Mother DOES NOT absolutely, positively, necessarily need another representative. In fact, THEY NEED LESS REPRESENTATION. How is it that METROID and DONKEY KONG get jiffed in terms of reps, bu not MOTHER?!

 

[grizby2]

Mother DOES NOT absolutely, positively, necessarily need another representative. In fact, THEY NEED LESS REPRESENTATION. How is it that METROID and DONKEY KONG get jiffed in terms of reps, bu not MOTHER?!

did you read the title? its a SUPPORT thread.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Wait, nobody is allowed to give constructive criticism? If not, I'll take my leave...

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Wait, nobody is allowed to give constructive criticism? If not, I'll take my leave...

Constructive criticism means that you're stating its flaws and leaving advice as to how something can be improved.

"WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER REP AT ALL" doesn't exactly reach that definition...

 

[PK-Omelette]

Sorry to continue this, FalKoopa, but I just wanted to make my own input on this. For the sake of the thread, most of it will go in a spoiler.

Now, Omelette, notice that you keep using fanart. Those aren't official redesigns. That is non-official artwork. Official artwork is what appears in Smash Bros.

Yes, I am aware. This was also pointed out before, but remember he never really went back to improve on Ninten, so simply re-drawing based on the original official to me simply gives better visuals to the character itself. Let's also not forget the transformation of Sonic when the artists got better, and Ness clearly has shown he did indeed get better over time too (I myself am an artist, so this is something you kinda have to familiarize yourself with). In case you may have came here after the original was edited, the harsh critique of Ninten (now currently removed [thank you Falkoopa ] in the beginning of this Porky support thread was mainly why I brought Ninten up. If Claus/MM was given that kind of harsh critique [not to say he wasn't originally critiqued, merely that his wasn't as harsh as Ninten's], such as his character within itself was useless, as well as his game and/or purpose amongst the plot in said game, then my post would've been in showing a positive image of Claus/MM instead of Ninten. It was brought up because of an issue and it appears some may have missed that ship completely.
Oh well~

The final battle was less exciting the way it was, but oh hell oh boy did it make the ending a lot less terrifying as well.

Meh, I've seen worse.
lol, after seeing so many drug references in Mother, seeing this image again I can really just picture fighting him with "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane playing in the background XD

 

[PK-Omelette]

Oh, the akward silence of derailing forums. I must remember to stop doing that, but such old habits die hard don't they?

Anyway, getting back to Pokey...

It's obvious that the HA from M3 isn't an option, making M2 or Doc Oc are really the only options when it comes to him as a brawler. I still wonder how much he'd move and fight like a Krab though considering the similarities in the obviously most common method of offense and movement (legs and claws).

 

[Starcutter]

How would you guys feel if Lucas was removed and porky took his place?

 

[AEMehr]

Pretty bad.

Sure King P is great and all, but I'd much rather have Lucas stay.

 

[PK-Omelette]

Pretty bad.

Sure King P is great and all, but I'd much rather have Lucas stay.

MUST.... SPAM.... THE LIKE BUTTON....

 

[FalKoopa]

How would you guys feel if Lucas was removed and porky took his place?

To be very honest, I won't exactly feel happy about it, because Lucas kind of earned his place in Smash. Replacing a character for another isn't what I'd want.

 

[MagnesD3]

Porky is the last rep thats needed for Earthbound IMO, him in his spiderbot would be amazing and terrifying (especially if his stage was giygas). Also imo they need to give lucas new specials for his b over and b up, as well as make his pk freeze better and make his absorb cause hitstun (pretty sure it doesnt cant remember).

 

[PK-Omelette]

Porky is the last rep thats needed for Earthbound IMO, him in his spiderbot would be amazing and terrifying (especially if his stage was giygas). Also imo they need to give lucas new specials for his b over and b up, as well as make his pk freeze better and make his absorb cause hitstun (pretty sure it doesnt cant remember).

The series only has 3 official games (I say this because of Mo 4 the fan game), so if any rep is deserving to be added it should be someone from Mo1/EB0. Still, if the logical issues revolving around Pokey were to be solved, I'd be more supportive of him as a rep too.

 

[MagnesD3]

The series only has 3 official games (I say this because of Mo 4 the fan game), so if any rep is deserving to be added it should be someone from Mo1/EB0. Still, if the logical issues revolving around Pokey were to be solved, I'd be more supportive of him as a rep too.

It would just require effort to make him a character, he also is a recurring villian so I think he is the most worthy, and is really cool. Just shrink his form from brawl to character size.