Most balanced fighters?

[Pasqual]

Melee is a good example of how difficult the balancing of a game can be, particularly when taking into account the use of techniques that weren't intended to be in the game. What do you consider to be the most balanced (and imbalanced) fighters of recent memory?

 

[Zero Beat]

Balanced : SCII and SCIII.

Also, DOA2U, and DOA4.

Tekken 5.

Unabalanced : MK 6 and 7.

 

[Team Giza]

SC games? Tekken 5? This is really the first time I've ever heard these games being considered balanced...

Well... Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution is very balanced. 5 is pretty balanced too but not as much as VF4:E.

 

[Zero Beat]

SC games? Tekken 5? This is really the first time I've ever heard these games being considered balanced...

Well... Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution is very balanced. 5 is pretty balanced too but not as much as VF4:E.

Aside from a few banned characters, yeah.

 

[Dash_Fox]

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo is ballanced I think. SSB64 is pretty ballanced.

Imballanced: Mortal Kombat 3, MVC2, Tekken, I can't think of any more. But definatly MK3, Kung lao......

 

[pdk]

some well-balanced picks (and favorites of mine; kof98 trumps ssbm frankly) are garou, kof2002 (considered to be the best balanced of the whole series), real bout fatal fury 2, and (arguably) kof98

last blade 2 is an example of not-so-good balance however; fine game though and it's not nearly as bad as mvc2 or soul cal

and for the record "balanced when your friends call everything cheap" != "balanced when you're not ******* around;" someone care to explain what makes soul cal and DOA games not horribly broken?

edit: also sfa3 is considered pretty well-balanced

 

[KevinM]

Dash Fox how do you consider SSB to be balanced?

 

[Biolink]

3rd Strike.

Of course the game has it's Big 3(Yun,Chun,Ken)

But in practical terms,almost everybody in 3rd Strike is usable save Sean.

The Big 3 dominates tournaments as well,but that is to be expected when basically everybody is Tier whoring.

It's the kind of game,where picking a better character always doesn't guarantee victory,and knowing how to Cr.MK>Shippu does not make you Daigo.
---------

Inbalanced is easily Marvel vs Capcom 2.You have to have at least 2 members of the Big 4 in your in team to be successful.

 

[Peaches]

Balanced : SCII and SCIII.

Also, DOA2U, and DOA4.

Tekken 5.

Unabalanced : MK 6 and 7.

SSB 64 is honestly more of everyone being terrribly broken due to the game engine than it is balanced. For other examples, check out Xmen CotA and Marvel vs. Street Fighter
LOL, SC3 is ridiculously unbalanced
SF Alpha 3 is NOT balanced either.
Tekken 5 is hella not balanced. Steve owns the game for free in 5.0 compared to the top in DR.
I have heard very little of KOF 2002 being balanced.

"Balanced" games I can think of:

Garou (still has a fairly definite half of the cast that's better) Garou is really one of the exceptions I see as being a non-balanced 2D fighter that's not SF2
Virtua Fighter = king of balance
Street Fighter 2 is iffy. It's really been referred to as more of a counterpicking game by some, but overall it's actually pretty balanced and solid.
KOF'98?


Marvel vs. Capcom 2 has a special sense of balance, the fact that Storm and Sentinel own the game is present, Cable and Magneto get special mention, but Storm and Sent are better solo than them.

Anyways, those 4 own the game for free, but the fact is that you have to star thinking of each different team as a different character. MSS != MSP and never will be close nor will MCS. Yet it's just one character. ALso take note in the fact that Strider will never be able to compete without Doom and is pretty much stuck with Sent as his best option; Very few teams are that fragile, it's really more of a random team that can abuse some parts othe game engine really well.

Also take note that Ironman, THE infinite man is not top tier despite having a ridiculously good infinite; sure Mags and Storm have an infinite, but you never see the infinite win games.

Team balance is something that's really only available in MvC2 and no other game has come close to the same thing as Marvel could. Few games are that broken and yet it's highly playable (arguably).

3rd Strike.

Of course the game has it's Big 3(Yun,Chun,Ken)

But in practical terms,almost everybody in 3rd Strike is usable save Sean.

The Big 3 dominates tournaments as well,but that is to be expected when basically everybody is Tier whoring.

It's the kind of game,where picking a better character always doesn't guarantee victory,and knowing how to Cr.MK>Shippu does not make you Daigo.
---------

Inbalanced is easily Marvel vs Capcom 2.You have to have at least 2 members of the Big 4 in your in team to be successful.

3rD Strike isn't Balanced. It might seem like it, but it's really not. Yun's Genei Jin really does own everything and Ken really does have too many options and Chun really does have broken normals and a beastly super. Makoto can stun and kill you in one combo, no one else can do that.

Honestly, what does Twelve really have that Yun, Ken, or Makoto can't do well? Twelve might be good if he took 1/3 less damage and did 1.5 times more damage. But he'd still lose bad to shoryu on airdashes.

Remy loses due to parry, those sonic boom thingies are weak and he'd do a lot better with lack of parry. Because 1. Parry kills his lockdown. ANd 2. He can't punish off of parry.

Q is slow and can be juggled ridiculously well.



Really, a lot of characters have a lot going for them, but Yun still gets free rushdown, Chun has way too good normals and supers (and easiest connect in the game), Ken is superman, and Makoto will kill you in 1 hit (plus with a grab and no super she STILL does mad stun).

Third Strike is pretty good, but it's balance isn't amazing at all. There's some definite rankings in the cast.

 

[Biolink]

I can agree that there are definitive rankings.I guess there has to be somebody that can use Low-Tier characters good enough.

Kuroda a Prominent Q player vs Makoto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_hFuD9dmH0&mode=related&search=

He is a low Tier character,and yes he is hella slow,but his command grab can punish you big time,and Taunt X 3 makes him darn near invincible.For a Low-Tier character,he does have options.

Hugo can kill Yun with 4 ,360 Grabs

Remy I agree,they really messed up on.He would be alot better if Rings of Light were stronger,because nobody is really afraid of eating a stray Ring of Light.

Twelve can effectively Zone and run away from characters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIXOLV1-WBg

 

[MetaKnight0]

Guilty Gear series in general is pretty good for balance.

Guilty Gear Slash especially.

 

[Flare233]

My 2nd favorite fighting game besides SSBM is definately 3rd Strike. I think the game is very balanced. So far my only experiences with an overpowered character are with Makoto and her infinites.

I thought Soul Calibur 1 and 2 were balanced as well.

 

[Peaches]

\
Hugo can kill Yun with 4 ,360 Grabs

*Cough* Hayao.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-2ZiWjgCew

THat's not even the best match I've seen with Hayao. And, BTW. KO is a world class Yun. Hayao is also THE Hugo.

@ Flare. Makoto has no infinite. The juggle system in Third strike only allows for 7 juggle hits on stun. Which will only happen in the corner with a few characters.

 

[Dash_Fox]

Dash Fox how do you consider SSB to be balanced?

Because it's all about the skill. Just look at Malva play! He can win with any character against anyone... even the ones we consider "cheap".

 

[Wiseguy]

They got it right thre first time: Super Smash Bros 64 is the most balanced fighter I know of.

 

[pdk]

it's time to look harder then

 

[ToXn]

I consider games where 5 or more charecter can win tournamnets balenced.

That leaves SSBM.

Mortal kombat does not have tourneys cuz it's garbage.

Marvel vs Capcom is a peice of **** infinate fest. where everybody uses the same team (aside from sometimes chageing 1 character out of 3 occasinoly)

Trubo's good as long as Akuma's banned. That leaves Ryu,T Hawk, Ken and Chun Li.

Virtua Fighter 2 on the saturn is balenced IIRC. I was little when I played it though so I may not have been using good techniques.

Guitly Gear seems "Okay".

All in all nothing Beats SSBM.

EDIT: Wow I forgot SSB 64. That game is balenced except maybe a few charecters suck.

EDIT2: And soul calibur is a button mashing garbage game. At least 2 is. Same with tekken. And tekken players are *******s to boot. Come to think of it everyone who plays fighting games other then SSB Players are complete idiots who think they play the best "Type of Game".

 

[pdk]

"i don't know an awful lot about (insert game here), it sucks and **** everyone who plays it"

swf in a nutshell

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I consider games where 5 or more charecter can win tournamnets balenced.

That leaves SSBM.

Mortal kombat does not have tourneys cuz it's garbage.

Marvel vs Capcom is a peice of **** infinate fest. where everybody uses the same team (aside from sometimes chageing 1 character out of 3 occasinoly)

Trubo's good as long as Akuma's banned. That leaves Ryu,T Hawk, Ken and Chun Li.

Virtua Fighter 2 on the saturn is balenced IIRC. I was little when I played it though so I may not have been using good techniques.

Guitly Gear seems "Okay".

All in all nothing Beats SSBM.

EDIT: Wow I forgot SSB 64. That game is balenced except maybe a few charecters suck.

EDIT2: And soul calibur is a button mashing garbage game. At least 2 is. Same with tekken. And tekken players are *******s to boot. Come to think of it everyone who plays fighting games other then SSB Players are complete idiots who think they play the best "Type of Game".

What a complete contradiction.

I think Guilty Gear is decent on the balance scale.

(Don't even mention dust loops)

 

[Biolink]

*Cough* Hayao.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-2ZiWjgCew

THat's not even the best match I've seen with Hayao. And, BTW. KO is a world class Yun. Hayao is also THE Hugo.

@ Flare. Makoto has no infinite. The juggle system in Third strike only allows for 7 juggle hits on stun. Which will only happen in the corner with a few characters.

That was one of my favorite matches ever.

As far as KO goes,dude had a great Yun,but as far as Yun goes I would take Nitto over just about anybody else.

To add on,as far as I know KO does not use Yun anymore.Dude has a crazy Tanden-Makoto that smashed Nitto's Yun in record time,and he also uses Yang alot now.

For Makoto,I know she has those stupid tick-Command Throw trap's that are absolutely ******** and can ace you out in a few seconds.

 

[MetaKnight0]

Dust Loops are nowhere near as bad as #R Eddie, Millia, or Slayer. They are actually pretty tame because it can be hard for Sol to put them in the corner. Besides they aren't in Slash.

Also Robo Ky can win a ranking tournament in Guilty Gear AC (a basically low tier character in a game 'dominated' by Eddie, Testament, Baiken, ABA, and Jam) but you rarely see the equivalent in SSBM (dominated by top 5). People will confidently use '****' characters like Zappa or Chipp or Anji or Johnny or mid tier characters like Order Sol, Ky, Dizzy but you could probably count all the 17th place or above low/bottom tier players in SSBM on two hands.

And ToXN is an excellent example of why every other fighting game player hates SSBM players. "Come to think of it everyone who plays fighting games other then SSB Players are complete idiots who think they play the best "Type of Game"." Shut the hell up.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

ToXN is retarted,nothing more than that.


Lol,the main reason why I said not to mention dustloops is because idiots who don't know much about the game(ToXN for example) would usually say that it's cheap without even having any extended knowledge beyond how it is used.

 

[Wiseguy]

it's time to look harder then

True enough.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

EDIT2: And soul calibur is a button mashing garbage game. At least 2 is. Same with tekken. And tekken players are *******s to boot. Come to think of it everyone who plays fighting games other then SSB Players are complete idiots who think they play the best "Type of Game".

Hey, I play Soul Calibur, and Guilty Gear.. Not as well as I do Smash, but is there a problem with playing Smash along with other fighting games? I don't see it as a problem at all.

 

[KevinM]

it's time to look harder then

"i don't know an awful lot about (insert game here), it sucks and **** everyone who plays it"

swf in a nutshell

I agree with this man on both accounts.

 

[pdk]

Hey, I play Soul Calibur, and Guilty Gear.. Not as well as I do Smash, but is there a problem with playing Smash along with other fighting games? I don't see it as a problem at all.

spend 5 minutes in the brawl forums and you'll see the answer is yes

 

[Goldkirby]

I really have no idea what fighting games are "balanced" but I don't really care, as long as the game is playable and fun.

I have fun playing 3s, CvS2, MvC2, SSB:M, and just fighting games in general. SSB:M is probably my best game, but that is cause I play it a lot more, and I don't really know anyone that plays the capcom 2d fighters.

btw, pdk, I love that Terry-chu you got in your sig.

 

[pdk]

goldkirby: once everyone realizes how half of pika's moveset parallels terry's he'll be top tier; count on it

only problem is pika doesn't have anything for BUSTA WHARF or RISIN' TAHKLE, and if garou taught us anything it's that a terry without RISIN' TAHKLE just ain't right (on a side note gotta give bonus points to kof98 here; it's annoying as hell how every other game makes that move a charge motion)

 

[OneWingSephiroth]

I consider games where 5 or more charecter can win tournamnets balenced.

That leaves SSBM.

Mortal kombat does not have tourneys cuz it's garbage.

Marvel vs Capcom is a peice of **** infinate fest. where everybody uses the same team (aside from sometimes chageing 1 character out of 3 occasinoly)

Trubo's good as long as Akuma's banned. That leaves Ryu,T Hawk, Ken and Chun Li.

Virtua Fighter 2 on the saturn is balenced IIRC. I was little when I played it though so I may not have been using good techniques.

Guitly Gear seems "Okay".

All in all nothing Beats SSBM.

EDIT: Wow I forgot SSB 64. That game is balenced except maybe a few charecters suck.

EDIT2: And soul calibur is a button mashing garbage game. At least 2 is. Same with tekken. And tekken players are *******s to boot. Come to think of it everyone who plays fighting games other then SSB Players are complete idiots who think they play the best "Type of Game".

Toxn, your an idiot beyond comprehension, your very single post tells me that you have 0% knowledge of fighting games outside of SSBM.

MvC2 may have the Big 4 running the game, however any well knowledged MvC2 players know that different sets of teams like MSP, Santhrax, Rowtron etc, all present different styles of play, you cannot rushdown with Santhrax like you can with MSP, it just won't work, so quit your "infinite" crying, because the only person to really do that consistently is Mags out of the Top 4, and no offense, but Mag's Rom's are 50x harder to do than Foxes shines.

Funny how this game gets alot of bashing from lots of players(Mostly by those who don't know much about the game again points at Toxn), yet this is the most exciting fighting game to watch period, especially during Evolution, not to mention it has the biggest trash talking, drama and money matches.

Virtua Fighter 2 is not balance, lmao, I guess you never saw any of the nonsense you can do within that game now did you?

ST is very balanced, infact one of the most balanced Street Fighter games, with O. Sagat, Sim, and Balrog on top, however Ryu, Chunli, Vega, Bison, Honda, Guile, Gief, etc are all very playable...T.Hawk is considered the worst character although he can kill you in less then 20 seconds(easier said then done).

Tekken 5 : DR although my most despised Tekken game, it's balance is the BEST EVER. The gaps between the Top characters like Mishima's to the middle-tier class is surprisingly not a huge gap at all. I've seen tons of variety within the placements for T5:DR at high lvls.

Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting is the most balanced Street Fighter game of all time period. Practically every single character can be played at the highest lvls (Sim, Claw, Balrog have some very bad matchups but they are still good, and they also have some extremely good matchups as well) except for M. Bison who just got completely nerfed comming out of CE, he's the only character within the cast who is completely crippled.

I don't remember much about SC anymore(since I kind of stopped caring after crappy SC2, and even worse yet SC3 *shrugs*) however SC1 recieved the biggest recognition(Excellent Game Engine, Gameplay period), there wasn't an entirely overpowered character unlike in SC2 (Mistu with 2b2, Xianghua 8-Way Run) or in SC3 (VC's where busted, 88B with Mistu was stupid, Xianghua still HAD whoring 8-Way Run although not as good anymore, the Sisters where completely outrageous with easy 70%+ strings).

VF4:Evolution is balanced, yes, I will say this again, their is a Tier Listing, that's why you see characters like Kage doing very well. Most balanced 3-D game of all time period though.

Those are the few fighting games that come into mind for me, that I know.

 

[pdk]

thank you OWS; we just need to clean house in the brawl forums and that'll be the end of "SSBM PLAYER ONLY AND PROUD!" folk

on a side note we (most of the people in this thread) should get something going on with kaillera, even if it's just us; there's already plenty of talk about SSB64 netplay through kaillera on here, no reason there can't be room for talk of street fighter + mame or whatever

 

[Team Giza]

Sonic the Fighters is fairly balanced. Bark is the only character that is really fairly crippled.

 

[Brightside6382]

This is only showing the ignorance of the smash community when to comes to other fighting games. With the exception of a few posts everything said has been horribly wrong. If SSBM is the first fighting game you've ever played competitively you shouldn't bash other fighting games for being "broken" lol SSB balanced? Thats was a good laugh.

 

[Wiseguy]

"i don't know an awful lot about (insert game here), it sucks and **** everyone who plays it"

swf in a nutshell

spend 5 minutes in the brawl forums and you'll see the answer is yes

thank you OWS; we just need to clean house in the brawl forums and that'll be the end of "SSBM PLAYER ONLY AND PROUD!" folk

on a side note we (most of the people in this thread) should get something going on with kaillera, even if it's just us; there's already plenty of talk about SSB64 netplay through kaillera on here, no reason there can't be room for talk of street fighter + mame or whatever

This is only showing the ignorance of the smash community when to comes to other fighting games. With the exception of a few posts everything said has been horribly wrong. If SSBM is the first fighting game you've ever played competitively you shouldn't bash other fighting games for being "broken" lol SSB balanced? Thats was a good laugh.

Bashing games you havn't played is idiotic, no doubt. We agree in that regard.

But c'mon guys. This is a Smash Bros fan site, so you have to expect that alot of Smash Bros fans are going to support their favorite fighting game. You don't have to agree, and you can explain why many games are far more balanced if that is the case (as OneWingSephiroth did in great detail) but there is no point in getting defensive or upset about it. It's not the end of the world if someone disagrees with you, and it's certainly not neccessary to label the entire Smash community as ignorant...

 

[maelstrom218]

How about we only talk about games we're familiar with? That way, we can all avoid shooting ourselves in the foot.

And out of the 2 games I've played/studied (SSBM and GGXX), I have to say that Melee is a (sort of) relatively balanced game. The fact that matchups play a more important role than tiers is a good thing. . .it makes character diversity a lot more important than just knowing a top-tier character.

GGXX/ is also relatively balanced. #Reload had its fair share of issues (namely dust loops and the craziness that was Eddie and Slayer), but Slash managed to iron everything out. It's too bad that Accent Core introduced a lot of unnecessary stupid stuff (Testament's Badlands Loop, Baiken's Superman counter, etc.). . .but still, the GGXX series is alright when it comes to balancing. Usually.

 

[pdk]

don't worry wiseguy, things will be better once we make some progress on this:

on a side note we (most of the people in this thread) should get something going on with kaillera, even if it's just us; there's already plenty of talk about SSB64 netplay through kaillera on here, no reason there can't be room for talk of street fighter + mame or whatever

 

[Peaches]

I have no comp of my own to use for Kaillera. . . >_> Not yet at least.

 

[pdk]

go for something cheap and refurbished then i guess, my laptop is a wimpy 1ghz pentium 3 and still runs neogeo/cps2 stuff (snk/capcom fighters basically) under mame at full speed and then some

as for the rest of you, i'm waiting ; )

 

[titus]

soul calibur games are all pretty balanced, imo.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

This is only showing the ignorance of the smash community when to comes to other fighting games. With the exception of a few posts everything said has been horribly wrong. If SSBM is the first fighting game you've ever played competitively you shouldn't bash other fighting games for being "broken" lol SSB balanced? Thats was a good laugh.

You cant really compare smash to most other fighting games, smash is more of free roaming than other fighters were you can even really run away or anything, smash gives you i think more control. I use to play SCII and long ago i played Street Fighters but nothing compares to smash. Smash is more balanced because its not really how many combos you can do but more of knowing how to use your characters simple moves. Since smash is kinda not really a combo doing game. Unless you play IC's like me

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Wow,now this game is broken.