Momma's Boys - A Lucas Video/Archive Thread

[Kipcom]

Yeah, I noticed it back during 3.6b, actually. I don't know if collisions were changed for 3.6, but I definitely noticed an easier time pulling them off.

I've actually be dabbling with DJ Landing since 3.5 and I've come up with a bunch of ideas for using them offensively and defensively, so them making it easier is definitely fine in my book. Got them around 60% of the time in 3.5. I get them like 80% of the time now.

And yeah, he definitely went for Magnet -> DJC Uair. I don't know any Lucas who actually DJLs on platforms intentionally yet (or rather, I haven't seen any other than myself) and it's a fairly niche thing to do.

 

[D e l t a]

Has anyone else noticed that lagless DJ-lands are much easier to do in 3.6? It used to be extremely difficult, but now I can do it with ~60% success when warmed up.

Dair > usmash becomes possible at even higher percents with a platform above you, to name just one minor application.

It looked like Hyper flame was going for mag-uair.

DJ lands IMO have always been the easiest 1 frame tech in the game. I'm working on implementing them for platform tech chases; however, it's irrationally difficult- especially during tourney matches. It would be cool to see someone intentionally land lagless DJL stuff all the time and get something out of it. Currently, I don't see this happening as there is much of Lucas' meta that should / will be pushed way before insane 1 frame niche tech will be seen. For the most part, the only times Lucas players DJL is when they go for instant doublejump aerials and in Hyper's case, when doing mag->uair.

Dair -> Usmash at higher %'s will still work easier than DJL followups. At higher %'s, you have to either fully commit to Upsmash right away, or go for an aerial followup.

 

[Scraket]

Scraket (Lucas) vs Big E (Ike)

This is from a tournament I went to yesterday. Placed alright but this was a winners match that I lost on stream. Game 2 is a lot closer lol.
Could've played better but whatever. So many random tech skill errors lol (all those silly Up Bs)

 

[Kipcom]

How in the world were you doing those accident up b's so often lol

You still seem pretty good to me

 

[Scraket]

How in the world were you doing those accident up b's so often lol

You still seem pretty good to me

no ****ing clue

 

[D e l t a]

I like how you play it off all cool and still try to make it work for you XD

 

[Xcite]

Dude you literally DI'd in every single fair. You would've died at later percents if you weren't always doing survival DI.

 

[Scraket]

nah it was a guaranteed KO either way obviously
Ike OP plz nerf he's 2 gud

 

[prem]

yeah big e says himself ike's broken and hes carried by this broken character anyway.

also i think you can upsmash more from what i saw i wouldve upsmashed like 10 more times pretty sure even if i will admit i upsmash obsessively at times

 

[Kipcom]

Alright I'm gonna update this soon. Probably tonight or tomorrow morning cause it's been a while.

I'm going to post the lucas footage from blacklisted and paragon. Are there any tournaments in recent history besides those that I'm forgetting?



EDIT: Okay, I put up all of the Lucas footage from both Blacklisted (even though that was 3.6b, but Lucas hasn't changed from 3.6b to 3.6) and Paragon footage from both Tourney Locator and azprojectmelee.

I also added some Lucas footage on AZPM's youtube channel from up to like 4 weeks ago. Have fun.

 

[D e l t a]

Some PM majors lately, but it seems to be the same top performers *sigh*

In happier news, the countdown continues: 3 weeks till Big House 5 aka the first tourney after this college term ends. Streams going up around MI which means I'll finally be able to provide you guys with some Lucas content

 

[D e l t a]

Soo, Pink Fresh is looking better

Vs Westballz (C. Falcon, Falco)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ULwe3KWrVN4

 

[Scraket]

And it was his last pm tournament he's entering apparently. R.I.P.

 

[AntSSB]

Ant(lucas) vs lpag(ddd)
http://youtu.be/ViZC5pyzNsw
Any advice would be helpful!

 

[Kipcom]

L_Pag got all his experience from playing me on netplay back in 3.0.

Im sorry bro there's no hope for you now.

No really though, I think you're trying to go in too much with PK Freeze, when I feel like DDD actually deals with PKF pretty well.
Instead of down airing his shield so often (It's not even safe on shield unless you're at least crossing him up), just grab him. DDDs love to put themselves in shield. I also don't think you need to be giving DDD so much space. You had good opportunities to either pressure him into doing something stupid or you could have gotten a combo started, but instead you just...run away to the other side of the stage and give up all stage positioning. If you're going to pressure DDD's shield, do it from behind. so he's forced to jump or roll. You really don't want to be getting grabbed by that character.

You played kinda scared throughout the entire set and I knew exactly what was going to happen on that last stock of game 2 when I saw him just standing near the ledge, lol.

 

[D e l t a]

I'll watch and critique later when I get time. For now, just know that PKF is almost next to useless against DDD. It's especially worse in the MU given that his minions absorb the hits since they're hurtboxes. DDD's shield is so large that most PKFs will be stopped before they come near him. Even if you manage to hit DDD, his fall speed is so great that he can fast fall -> shield / grab / Ftilt, before you can even convert.

Pressuring DDD isn't hard since you're able to get right behind him on cross ups. His Bair hits just above you if hes not good with timing OoS. It's also somewhat slow, so you can use tilts mixed in with your magnet/aerial pressure to throw them off.

Comboing him is even easier and converting into a kill move is where Lucas does better than most of the cast. He's got guaranteed kills around 130% rather than living to over 200% against some other characters like Mario or Diddy. Plus, Bair & Dair will keep ledge guarding DDD for free and it's safe to go offstage against DDD with Dair when he's recovering (especially when he doesn't have any more jumps).

 

[AntSSB]

L_Pag got all his experience from playing me on netplay back in 3.0.

Im sorry bro there's no hope for you now.

No really though, I think you're trying to go in too much with PK Freeze, when I feel like DDD actually deals with PKF pretty well.
Instead of down airing his shield so often (It's not even safe on shield unless you're at least crossing him up), just grab him. DDDs love to put themselves in shield. I also don't think you need to be giving DDD so much space. You had good opportunities to either pressure him into doing something stupid or you could have gotten a combo started, but instead you just...run away to the other side of the stage and give up all stage positioning. If you're going to pressure DDD's shield, do it from behind. so he's forced to jump or roll. You really don't want to be getting grabbed by that character.

You played kinda scared throughout the entire set and I knew exactly what was going to happen on that last stock of game 2 when I saw him just standing near the ledge, lol.

yeah we played the week before and i have no clue what to do against ddd so i was scared the whole time. i realized about dair after i watched it. how should i approach him without getting grabbed, or hit with waddle dashes?

 

[D e l t a]

How should i approach him without getting grabbed, or hit with waddle dashes?

Baits. Lots and lots of baits.

DDD's Ftilt covers a large range, but running up and shielding gives lots of time to shield grab or punish with an aerial OoS. Minions are pretty easy to avoid and they can be hit away safely (fsmash / Fair / magnet) to avoid waddle dashing. The endlag after his SideB is also pretty high, so you can force DDD to take defensive measures if you approach right after they whiff a minion toss.

If you've ever watched the classic Neon vs Heysuess MU, you'll see Neon's Lucas doing tons of baits and throwing safe aerials in DDD's zone in attempts to get him to throw out unsafe tilts / minions.

==

In regards to Dair, use more Nair. You can always set up for a Dair combo later, but Nair is super safe and the ground hitbox can either shield stab or catch opponents attempting to shield grab early. IMO, Fair is also really unsafe as an approach in this MU due to the amount of time that DDD has to respond and punish to the move.

 

[AntSSB]

Ant(Lucas) vs Little Turtle(Kirby)
http://youtu.be/klvzzGaEbsA

 

[D e l t a]

Coming at y'all with some fresh new content

Delta (Lucas) vs Railz (Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fpZJe-wRqM

BTW, let me know what you guys think, areas to improve on, things you saw I did well, etc. There's always something I might not see in my play that others will.

 

[Kipcom]

I'll look into it when I can.

 

[D e l t a]

I suck

Delta (Lucas) vs Gato (GnW) $5 MM
https://youtu.be/yYwfX2Vw7X0

 

[trancex]

That PK thunder suicide was sooo dumb lol.

You missed your sweetspots a bunch of times on your PKT2 recovery above the ledge, clean that up. Overall, a lot of spaghetti, with some nice combos and reads. I liked that DACUS read on PS2 a lot, so satisfying.

 

[D e l t a]

Yeah I just came back from school term the weekend before TBH5 so my tech is ****ty AF. My sweetspots were super off that day idk. If you saw me earlier I had the PKT2 cancel straight down which is what I normally do. RIP tech skill. We played some friendlies later and I did better then

Overall, I think my neutral was good save for some terrible retreating DJC PKF when I could've gotten a better punish. I've been working on restraining myself when retreating

Hopefully you guys get an idea of how to combat GnW's combos with good SDI (except that one OoS UpB that caught me off guard Game 1). Plus Lucas can destroy GnW at really low %'s and combo him easy. Pay careful notice to my spacing and awareness of his UpB and how I DI/SDI his combos. I think that's one of the best things to take away from this video if all else.

 

[Kipcom]

Brushed up the Original Post a bit.
Made the $ for money matches a brighter green since the old one was too damn dark on this site's background. Now it looks much more visible $$$.

I also updated it with all of the videos posted so far. Finally, I decided to add links to all of the other stickied threads on the Lucas forum, cause why not?

I probably wont have any actual tournament footage until next month. My locals hardly ever record PM (usually Melee or Smash 4 get the good end of that deal), but I'll be posting some more netplay videos that involve more of the well known players in PM. I've got some matches with DLA's charizard and hopefully I can get the chance to play some other people who are really good and attend Anther's Ladder (ex: MrLz, Emukiller, Dirtboy, etc.) and record those games for your entertainment.

As for tourney footage, It'll most likely happen at Tipped Off next month. I'm really looking forward to that. I'll either play really well or go out like a buster/fraud. We'll see.

 

[AntSSB]

Ant (Lucas) vs AIDS (Ganon)
http://youtu.be/Jmi6IEyv3U4
Pls help me... I've had a mental block against AIDS for the longest time. Almost every tourney he always double eliminates me. HELP! After the SD the 3rd game I knew it was over, I was gonna quit out but then stayed and got bopped );

 

[AntSSB]

Ant (Lucas) vs 5by5 | bubbles (Wario)
http://youtu.be/6WIpkvWy8vM

 

[Scraket]

Ant (Lucas) vs AIDS (Ganon)
http://youtu.be/Jmi6IEyv3U4
Pls help me... I've had a mental block against AIDS for the longest time. Almost every tourney he always double eliminates me. HELP! After the SD the 3rd game I knew it was over, I was gonna quit out but then stayed and got bopped );

One thing is that I feel like you get punished for pkf a lot. Be aware of when your opponent is in a position where he can just fair through the pkf and just KO you. I tend to ease up on pkf a bit in this mu personally.

 

[assortedletters]

Ant (Lucas) vs AIDS (Ganon)
http://youtu.be/Jmi6IEyv3U4
Pls help me... I've had a mental block against AIDS for the longest time. Almost every tourney he always double eliminates me. HELP! After the SD the 3rd game I knew it was over, I was gonna quit out but then stayed and got bopped );

In the ganon matchup, nice roomy stages are your friend. Ganon's pressure comes from all his stage control. I like to zone them out with grounded and retreating PK freezes on stages like FD, PS 2, and smashville. If keep him at range, you can shield his down b for an easy grab/punish. Also, when recovering, sweet spotting could help, but if you can't, angle higher and use your drift to mixup your recovery.

Remember, ganon's just waiting for you to make a mistake. try waiting for him

 

[AntSSB]

Ant (Lucas) vs Bubbaking (MK)
http://youtu.be/ltFApSSi238

 

[Kipcom]

Ant (Lucas) vs AIDS (Ganon)
http://youtu.be/Jmi6IEyv3U4
Pls help me... I've had a mental block against AIDS for the longest time. Almost every tourney he always double eliminates me. HELP! After the SD the 3rd game I knew it was over, I was gonna quit out but then stayed and got bopped );

I told you a long time ago that you need to stop using PK Freeze so wrecklessly, and it shows in this video. You keep running to the edge of the stage to shoot PK freeze when all AIDS is doing is either shielding it or floating over it. When you run away just to shoot PK Freeze, you're giving up so much stage control, against a character with really beefy attacks that has a good amount of moves that will go right through PK Freeze and into poor Lucas' face. You did better when you were up close to him. Stop putting yourself in the corner.

You gotta learn how to play neutral and to get in someone's zone without the over reliance PK Freeze. I'm not saying you SHOULDN'T use PK Freeze. I'm just saying you SHOULDN'T use it much if they're easily avoiding it or punishing you almost every time for doing it. Also pls sweetspot ledge.


As for your stage striking after winning game 2, you made it reeeeeeally obvious that you didn't want to go to Green Hill or Yoshi's. You probably should have just left the cursor still so that he wouldn't know what stages you don't want to go to, even if he was going to pick one of those stages. You only had one ban left and you had to choose between those two, and honestly I have no idea why you'd strike Green Hill Zone over Yoshi's, considering Yoshi's is smaller, with more platforms, and a smaller blastzone. I could tell that you would have probably been uncomfortable on either stage, but still, you allowed him to pick the greater of 2 evils, here.

Hope I don't sound too harsh or anything, just giving my honest criticism.

 

[Kipcom]

double post boys


Kip (Lucas) vs. DLA (Charizard)*

Kip (Lucas) vs. Pug (Yoshi)* - Part 1 (uploading part 2 today)

 

[D e l t a]

I'll look over your matches when I find more time later (W O R K B O Y S)

On the Ganon MU, I really dove into that after losing to a few Ganons I felt were below my skill level

Basically you want to be just outside of their aerial range and bait with Ftilt, Magnet, and Fair. Don't use Dtilt or PKF as they get eaten alive by Ganon. Study Bizzaro Flame vs Armada. Watch how Armada stays outside of Ganon's range and when he approaches. Substitute Fox Nair for Lucas Fair.

Ganons Warlock kick and sideB all have decent startup but high burst. If the Ganon plays a ground-centric game, dash dance in and out of that range. If they're doing lots of SH aerials, use PKF sparingly and punish the landings. Ganon's aerials are safe on Lucas' sheild 95% of the time, but you can punish the landing lag / jumpsquat / startup frames on aerials.

My friend best described fighting Ganon in neutral as follows:
Avoid his DownB & SideB. Ganon can't rush you down. He will bait you with SH aerials and platform movement. Those are the only three things Ganon can do. Recognize which of those that the Ganon likes to do and punish accordingly.

 

[AntSSB]

Thanks everyone! And kip for the stages we play A LOT so which ever stage I didn't ban he was going to go to... So last time we played I banned yoshis and lost, so I banned green hill to see what would happen, I'm definitely banning yoshis next time we end up playing.

 

[D e l t a]

Just get better and it won't be a problem

 

[Kipcom]

Went and did more updates on the OP.

Decent amount of Sartron and StereoKidd Lucas vids have been added and there should be more of them coming to YouTube (though the stream they had last time was almost unwatchable so I'm not sure if I should bother with those).
Added a couple gfys and also added PKJoey's combo video.

 

[Sartron]

Went and did more updates on the OP.

Decent amount of Sartron and StereoKidd Lucas vids have been added and there should be more of them coming to YouTube (though the stream they had last time was almost unwatchable so I'm not sure if I should bother with those).
Added a couple gfys and also added PKJoey's combo video.

I think it was the internet that was awful, the local recordings shouldn't be bad when they get uploaded.

 

[D e l t a]

Excited to watch all the vods I hadn't caught up on yet. I got a couple tourneys coming up and there's one on Halloween that will have a stream so I'll try to get my own stuff out there for you guys ^_^

 

[Scraket]

Scraket (Lucas) vs ThundeRzReiGN (dk/falcon)

Thunderz is 2gud. I started out aight against his falcon before scrubbing it up lmao.

 

[AntSSB]

Ant(Lucas) vs Little Turtle(Kirby)
http://youtu.be/CcSrrGZdfrA

Ant(Lucas) vs Bubbaking(MK)
http://youtu.be/depDnXeSBEk

Ant(Lucas) vs Face(Zelda)
http://youtu.be/GWgJdW8UbhY

Ant(Lucas) vs 9000(Fox)
http://youtu.be/oJKTjKw8C5I