Mind Games - No Dash Dancing

[Thino]

Sakurai suddenly made the competitive tier more unbalanced removing all those lol
Metaknights ,Peaches and Toon Links will dominate this game (in 1v1 at least)

 

[Goober]

I love it how shortsighted people are. If L-cancelling is out it's because the need for it is gone, all characters have had their move-recovery lag adjusted against each others moves now. They have basically shortened all characters lag time for move down to what the timing would be if they had l-cancelled it. Of course short hop and fast fall are still in, so really, L-cancelling has been MADE OBSOLETE by the new mechanics. We don't effing need l-cancelling if characters landing time for air moves is BALANCED. If L-cancelling was still in, it would do what it did in melee, favor fast characters and give them instant recover, unbalancing things again.

I'll make an analogy, just in case someone missed that. I'll give a numeric value for landing lag on 3 different characters moves and show what L-canceling does. Let's take (in melee) Bowser's, Mario's, and Falco's Dair and give them lag values of 8, 5, and 2. L-cancelling would subtract 2/3 lag rounding up. In order still, that's 8-6 5-4, and 2-2. So, in order, the lag times are Bowser 2, mario 1, and falco 0. The problem here is the 0, because 0 means 0 time for shield grab, roll, or jab. This obviously favors fast characters over others, because they're the only ones that can make it to that 0 which has implications of it's own. If the characters had set and balanced values, like in brawl, all characters would have their own compensations for their speed without being penalized. The numbers would look more like this: Bowser, 3, mario, 2, falco, 1.


I'll summarize for effing emphasis, L CANCELING ISN'T NEEDED IF LANDING LAG FOR ALL CHARACTERS IS ACTUALLY BALANCED.

You were pointing out the flaw by being extremely vague and subversive? Are you high?




Except it isn't, ***got, since Ganondorf has MORE lag than in Melee. The slow characters are going to be laggy out the *** from aerials nad get ***** even harder than they did in Melee.

You sir, have no idea wtf you are talking about, and I hope a piano falls on you.

The thing that I think a lot of people are afraid of is that without l-cancelling, slow characters will just get shield grabbed all day. Neither of you take into account shield hit stun, which could balance the laggy aerials of slow characters. Sakurai may have increased the shield hit stun to the point where if an aerial hits a shield, the opponent won't have time to shield grab. If this were the case it seems the focus of slow, powerful characters would be shifted towards making sure their attacks connect with either opponent or shield in order to avoid getting punished for a whiffed attack that leaves them with a lot of delay.

 

[Sliq]

The thing that I think a lot of people are afraid of is that without l-cancelling, slow characters will just get shield grabbed all day. Neither of you take into account shield hit stun, which could balance the laggy aerials of slow characters. Sakurai may have increased the shield hit stun to the point where if an aerial hits a shield, the opponent won't have time to shield grab. If this were the case it seems the focus of slow, powerful characters would be shifted towards making sure their attacks connect with either opponent or shield in order to avoid getting punished for a whiffed attack that leaves them with a lot of delay.

Except characters with more maneuverability will dodge the hit, and retaliate in his horrible lag. Furthermore, simply spot dodging the aerial should be enough to just **** slow aerials.

 

[PiKMN TRNR]

Dash Dancing was in at the E 4 ALL Demo, I would know, I played it lol, and yes, Sonic had an insane DashDance, probably the best I saw and far better than anyones from Melee.

 

[DstyCube]

T!mmy was dash dancing with Meta Knight at E 4 All, sorta lol.
@ 0:45:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57YTZnIWvJY

Where's proof that shows dash dancing is not in brawl?

*Edit* Just because you can't dash dance 'effectively' doesn't mean that there's 'No Dash Dancing'. It's still mind games.

 

[Goober]

Except characters with more maneuverability will dodge the hit, and retaliate in his horrible lag. Furthermore, simply spot dodging the aerial should be enough to just **** slow aerials.

lol, do you really think you can dismiss a tactic by suggesting one possible way around it? I'm not saying it will always work, no approach always works, I'm saying it could. It's obviously up to the players to MAKE it work (which is what I meant when I said the focus would be shifted to the players making sure they connect with something)

I could conjure a possible way to get around the opponent spot dodging and then you could respond with a way to get around that and we could sit here all day going back and forth with an increasingly convoluted hypothetical series of events but in the end we'll just both be ******** because we both know that 5 minutes of playing the game will offer more real insight than hours and hours of talking about it.

I do want to say though that I think the "character with more maneuverability dodge and retaliate" move will be more complicated than it sounds. There'll probably be ways to do it but wavedashing is out, so wavedash back to grab or attack is a no go. And with this thread talking about dash dancing being removed or at the least less effective I'm not sure if dashing away and dashing back will work very well either. Then again I have no idea how the game will actually play so this is all still hypothetical.

 

[Lynkx]

Who cares if it doesn't have L-Cancelling? It's not Melee's Patch file, it's a completely new game. Of course, you can always look forward to other, newer techniques...