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Milktea Gives TEDYouth Talk On Sexism In Gaming

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CheAkiwara

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I really liked this video , it does send out a strong message.

However , and correct me if Im wrong but was she ever harassed or something like that in person? She makes a kind of big deal out of it , that anynomous people on the internet are jerks on the internet.
 
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Those comments were pretty pathetic. I never understood sexism, and especially I don't understand it in a community like Smash's. Who the hell cares? It's more people to play the game and have fun with.

It was a good speech. I enjoyed it.

Also, I bet at least half of that audience got into Smash after hearing that lecture.

I really liked this video , it does send out a strong message.

However , and correct me if Im wrong but was she ever harassed or something like that in person? She makes a kind of big deal out of it , that anynomous people on the internet are jerks on the internet.
I don't think that matters honestly. It still portrays the community in a crappy way. I mean, what if you were a girl interested in Smash who went online to learn more about it and you saw comments like that?
It would probably turn you off to the game, yes?

It's all the same really. Thank God face to face sexism in Smash isn't as big of an issue. Holy cow that would be a problem.
 
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Lizalfos

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This is important, and how conveniently timed with this whole Australia debacle. The fact that the video has so many dislikes and needed comments to be disabled is truly a shame too. I love the gaming community but there's so much work that still needs to be done.

:093:
What happened in Australia? Did something happen at BAM7 ?
 

Camalange

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What happened in Australia? Did something happen at BAM7 ?
A girl won a major in Australia and of course everyone had something to say about that.

:093:
 

Hellrazor

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Really wish these things weren't discussed with such a narrow perspective. Anyone can get upset by mean words by some asshole on the internet. Nothing special about comments targeted toward a particular race, ethnicity, sex, or gender.

Can we not just tell people to play nice and be considerate? Is that not a trait we can instill in our youth and cultivate for our future? I get the message Milktea and countless other people are harping on about, but it all boils down to "be nice." I'd rather not see it constantly advertised as some issue affecting a specific victim group.

It's the internet. Either everyone gets **** on or nobody does. Can't service one portion of the population and ignore the rest. No use babbling over sexism. Special treatment won't solve anything. Just get people to stop being *****. That'll solve it all.
 
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SpandexBullets

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Look, if you believe that sexism is non-exisant, just stop, listen, and believe MilkTea when she talks about it because it's a very real problem.

Remember that horribleness Lilo experienced at Press Start? Well it didn't even get highlighted on Smashboards, but somehow absenteeism of high ranking smashers did.

Sexism has become the background radiation for many female smashers in the community, and while it is usually perpetrated by "that guy" at loads of tournaments, it's also enabled by loads of others who know that negative attention will arise if a smasher is accused of sexism, and do little to nothing about it.

And saying stuff like "Well at least she's not this feminist who definitely hates men and calls every game sexist and anti-women" only promotes this attitude, that if someone is discriminated in a sexist fashion, they might be less likely to bring that to the attention of the community for fear of being labelled such a thing, like many smashers have labelled Lilo and MilkTea.
 
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ChikoLad

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I think my friend (female) who goes by the gamer tag "X" tackles the issue much better by showing up to the events, and playing the game, and not making a big deal out of being one of the few girls.
The problem with simply doing that is that it's not girls who make a big deal of being the only girl there in the first place. It's the guys who make a big deal. It isn't just slander either. Sometimes girls go to these things and get an unwarranted amount of praise and hand holding, and it can feel uncomfortable. Even when they turn it down, many guys still persist.

You have to understand that most of the Smash scene are not upstanding gentlemen - they are mostly just teenage high school/college boys. Most of them don't have the maturity to just step down and leave a girl alone, especially since, being the high school kids that they are, it's a contest to see who can get her attention. Hanging out with the opposite sex, for some arbitrary reason, makes young people feel better about themselves. And when there are barely any of the opposite sex in your community, that drive to be "the one guy who always gets to hang out with her" gets much stronger. Which causes problems for the girl/s in question.
 

proxibomb

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http://milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com/post/64300739224/growing-up-in-the-super-smash-brothers-melee

This is from 2013. I dunno, but it's kind of annoying when someone goes off about the same topic all the time.

While I'm at it :

http://milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com/ - February 2014. Exact same topic.

http://ideas.ted.com/whats-it-like-to-be-a-woman-in-competitive-gaming-a-female-gamer-explains/ - September 2014. Same ****ing topic.

You get the idea. Just google it, there's literally like fifteen articles about sexism and smash involving milktea in one way or another. She loves the attention, clearly.
It's not for the attention of fame genius, it's so people are aware of this problem. She wants people to know this is a problem, and you seem to know quite well of this.
 

Pazzo.

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God bless her.

I'm glad people know how to appropriately talk about sexism, especially in the Smash community, without going into strange misandrist tangents.
 

Dinn3r

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Hats off to milktea for finally drawing attention to such an important subject. The entire smash community, as a whole, tries desperately to stay out of "political" arguments but consequently ignores those who are affected by it.
 

Dylan_Tnga

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Hats off to milktea for finally drawing attention to such an important subject. The entire smash community, as a whole, tries desperately to stay out of "political" arguments but consequently ignores those who are affected by it.
Lol "Finally" She's been spouting the same spiel for like 3-4 years now.
 

SpandexBullets

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Guys, this is not good. And sadly, it's not even surprising.

This is a serious problem in our community, and it absolutely sucks. I don't care about figthing games in general, we work to better own community. But look at this:

This makes me so goddamn angry.
Like, there's such a hate wagon ready to **** on women who try to highlight sexism in different kinds of gaming/geek culture, and it spreads with such alarming security. I actually can't believe the things I've heard the horrible things said by people I would've admired most, it's like there's some kind of universal distrust of women's experiences, or that "oh she's like Anita always blaming and hating men, not trying to make a positive change".
I just don't get it, and it's stuff like this that makes quitting smash altogether seem like an attractive option.
 

SpandexBullets

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I think it's because milktea is constantly seeking attention, using this issue to achieve good results.

I agree with her message, but I find her annoying as a person. Not gonna lie, was tempted to thumbs down it myself... not because I disagree, because I'm sick of this same person bringing up the same issue for the past few years. You're a girl, guys can be *******s, we get it.
This guy.
His comment.

Not deleted.

whyyy.
 

Dylan_Tnga

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I just don't get it, and it's stuff like this that makes quitting smash altogether seem like an attractive option.
Wow. Really? You would quit doing something you love because a very SMALL percentage of the community has said something sexist to a woman?

And my comment wasn't deleted because I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't like milktea. Oh wait, I guess that automatically makes me sexist.. lol.
 

Zarxrax

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A ton of the comments in here are appalling, and the exact sort of thing that she is speaking out about.

Smash is created as a game that anyone can enjoy. But many gamers are such jerks towards women that they drive them all out of the community. It's like little kids saying "no women allowed". But guess what guys, most of you SHOULD have grown out of that stage by now.

People seem actually offended because she has had the gall to stand up and say something about this a couple of times over a period of several years. Well maybe that's because it continues to be a problem. And maybe that's because no one else is standing up for this.

All smasher's need to try to work to make women feel more welcome within the community, and without hitting on them or hoping they will become your girlfriend or something. If you see someone making disparaging comments about them solely on the basis of their gender, stand up with them and call that person out. Let them know that this is unacceptable behavior.

We should do this not because they are women, but because they are part of our community. And it's kinda tough to stand up for yourself when you are such a small minority and everyone is ganging up on you.

Everyone, men and women alike (and everyone in between) should all be made to feel welcome and a part of this great community.
 
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SpandexBullets

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Wow. Really? You would quit doing something you love because a very SMALL percentage of the community has said something sexist to a woman?

And my comment wasn't deleted because I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't like milktea. Oh wait, I guess that automatically makes me sexist.. lol.
It being your opinion, implying that these same serious issues being highlighted because they are never picked up annoys you, makes you feel that you could be right in some way? I dunno dude, that seems a little terrible.

And yes, you can admit that people like this exist in the community.
But I disagree if you believe that they are a constant thing that cannot be removed or discouraged. That's throwing female smashers under the bus, and it's you being a ****.

How about some positive change? Like, I don't know, changing your attitude to allow better gender diversity in the community?
 

Dylan_Tnga

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It being your opinion, implying that these same serious issues being highlighted because they are never picked up annoys you, makes you feel that you could be right in some way? I dunno dude, that seems a little terrible.

And yes, you can admit that people like this exist in the community.
But I disagree if you believe that they are a constant thing that cannot be removed or discouraged. That's throwing female smashers under the bus, and it's you being a ****.

How about some positive change? Like, I don't know, changing your attitude to allow better gender diversity in the community?
... My best friend at the weeklies is a girl. Occasionally guys hit on her there and she politely tells them she has a boyfriend. I respect her attitude, and for not making a HUGE DRAMATIC STATEMENT about it, but rather leading by example.

She is also one of the top peach players in the city.

I'm not implying anything. It's annoying to see the same person talk about the same thing, for YEARS no matter who they are.

You're literally attacking me for having an opinion. Calm down. I don't see how your insults / negative attitude are any better for competitive smash than sexism.

This is clearly an emotional issue for you, but please keep your cool. This is a discussion, no need to attack me just because you disagree.
 

Ultimastrike

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Milktea's speech brought up some important points when it comes to Sexism in Gaming(which I honestly have not seen, though I do seem to find it everywhere else).

It's like on the internet you think everyone's a male when you don't know in actuality if they're their gender that they put up. The stereotyping won't end there, though: In a comment in this list, I read that someone was assuming that most girls would be "I'm a girl, go easy on me?". That's already a stereotype that can be applied to others if you think that way.

Also @ Dylan_Tnga Dylan_Tnga sometimes things shouldn't be a one-time thing. Sexism, especially in America, is something that is not tolerated in most societies(even though there is the occasional sexist joke). It at times has to be repeated until people get the message due to a variety of factors either from a single person or a whole community.

I may not have been to a Smash scene before in my state, or in any other, but at times actions aren't the best way to put things when you can use words to describe it.

Note: I respect everyone's opinion here, so don't take this as any kind of attack.
 

Grizzlpaw

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http://milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com/post/64300739224/growing-up-in-the-super-smash-brothers-melee

This is from 2013. I dunno, but it's kind of annoying when someone goes off about the same topic all the time.

While I'm at it :

http://milktea-ssbm.tumblr.com/ - February 2014. Exact same topic.

http://ideas.ted.com/whats-it-like-to-be-a-woman-in-competitive-gaming-a-female-gamer-explains/ - September 2014. Same ****ing topic.

You get the idea. Just google it, there's literally like fifteen articles about sexism and smash involving milktea in one way or another. She loves the attention, clearly.
Oye... Confirmation bias at it's finest. The reason why she tackles the same subject is obvious if you take a moment to think about it.

Lets say you want to raise awareness within a large community.

Do you:

A. Bring up the subject once and only once, then never talk about it again?

or

B. Try to spread your message as much as possible via whatever resources you have available

I mean, any logical person would chose option B over option A if they wanted to get their message out there. Yeah, Milktea posted about the exact same issue multiple times on different sites? It could be that she's just seeking out the attention for personal reasons.

Or it could be that she legit wants to reach as many people as possible with this message because it's actually important to her. If this is the case, then any attention that she gets would only help her raise awareness that much faster.

So before we bash on Milktea anymore, let me ask everyone this. What evidence do you have that Milktea is only seeking attention for personal reasons?

How do you know that she's not just trying to spread her message?

:006:
 
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SpandexBullets

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I think it's because milktea is constantly seeking attention, using this issue to achieve good results.

I agree with her message, but I find her annoying as a person. Not gonna lie, was tempted to thumbs down it myself... not because I disagree, because I'm sick of this same person bringing up the same issue for the past few years. You're a girl, guys can be *******s, we get it.
... My best friend at the weeklies is a girl. Occasionally guys hit on her there and she politely tells them she has a boyfriend. I respect her attitude, and for not making a HUGE DRAMATIC STATEMENT about it, but rather leading by example.

She is also one of the top peach players in the city.

I'm not implying anything. It's annoying to see the same person talk about the same thing, for YEARS no matter who they are.

You're literally attacking me for having an opinion. Calm down. I don't see how your insults / negative attitude are any better for competitive smash than sexism.

This is clearly an emotional issue for you, but please keep your cool. This is a discussion, no need to attack me just because you disagree.
Ok.
What I'm getting at, is that if guys keep on pestering her and paying her attention solely for the fact that she is female, she really should cause some drama.

BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENS TO MALE PLAYERS. EVER.

Imagine this scenario, if you will:

Female smasher plays at Xanadu, does well against some high ranking player (Boss, Seagull, Officer etc.) and goes to the youtube channel to see the game again and what people think of it, as some helpfuls usually leave advice to aid a players game.
However, she sees lots of sexist remarks, reducing attention to her actual play at the tournament and focusing instead on her physical figure (I will link you actual comments and actual videos.)
However, she chooses to ignore it, and focuses on the helpful comments.
Next Smash weekly, she plays, and the same comments go up again.
It's irritating that these comments are usually the most liked in the whole section, and it looks like the Twitch chat was no different. But it's only some smashers, and she doesn't want to offend male smashers who actually aren't sexist if she makes a complaint about it.

And then it happens next week. And the week after that. And the next one.

It doesn't appear on male Smashers videos at all, and those seem to get more serious attention towards their gameplay and use of the characters than she does.

But, she can't complain. Otherwise, it's drama.

So, after weeks and weeks of seeing this, she stops looking at her videos altogether, and focuses on talking to attendees at tourney instead, because they're not gonna behave like these guys. They understand that she's just a smasher like them, and that competitive gaming is totally accepting towards female and male gamers alike, and she's not gonna behave like that woman. She's cool.

...do you see where I'm going with this? This was the situation MilkTea, and many female gamers I have met over years of attending cons were in.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that this really is your opinion, and you really don't see sexism in Smash as a big or even harmful thing. I know you want to focus on competitive smash above all else, because gameplay is the only thing that matters in that regard, and if we begin talking about sexism in smash, it's something that's totally not relevant within the sphere in gaming, because its only perpetrated by guys who are sexist and should just play the game like everyone else.

But it is harmful. It doesn't affect you, and theres an atmosphere of "dont stir up trouble not relevant to gameplay", but you need to break that.
Be a good representative of the community and listen to one of it's most compassionate members.

She is looking for attention, but it's not for her sake, it's for the community. Could you help to make it better?
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Certain issues take a lot of time to improve themselves and female equality and respect within gaming communities is one of the biggest issues that's been around since day 1. Milktea may be harping on the same point year after year but I feel it's to enact positive change. Doing nothing as a female smash and just playing the game is one way to go about it and has its set of pros and cons but I do feel the entire "standing on a soapbox" approach to be more effective in bringing the issue to the forefront as a whole and bringing attention to it from outside the community.

She may be seeking attention but at least the issue is getting attention too.

My biggest beef? Not really digging that color of hair....:/
 
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Blue Sun Studios

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Just get people to stop being *****. That'll solve it all.
Many people in the world are chronic *ssholes however, and sadly, being nice generally doesn't accomplish much to begin with against people who are unreasonable in the first place. i.e., all sexists. I don't think that many people are asking for special treatment, more or less asking to stop being treated like sh*t.
 

SpandexBullets

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Certain issues take a lot of time to improve themselves and female equality and respect within gaming communities is one of the biggest issues that's been around since day 1. Milktea may be harping on the same point year after year but I feel it's to enact positive be change. Doing nothing as a female smash and just playing the game is one way to go about it and has its set of pros and cons but I do feel the entire "standing on a soapbox" approach to be more effective in bringing the issue to the forefront as a whole and bringing attention to it from outside the community.

She may be seeking attention but at least the issue is getting attention too.

My biggest beef? Not really digging that color of hair....:/
No one should have to complain about being treated differently because of their gender.
I never have, and I never see any comments on VGBC referring to a male players body in an inappropriate way.

That fact that some female smashers are encouraged to just accept that this will happen and not complain for the comfort of their male friends...that's deplorable. That is awful.
 

Dylan_Tnga

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No one should have to complain about being treated differently because of their gender.
I never have, and I never see any comments on VGBC referring to a male players body in an inappropriate way.

That fact that some female smashers are encouraged to just accept that this will happen and not complain for the comfort of their male friends...that's deplorable. That is awful.
I dunno. I've seen a hell of a lot of extremely racist comments about Prog / D1 just because they are black. N word and everything.

Prog and D1 are male, last I checked. Yeah it's not about their body but close enough. Everyone has to deal with harsh words, male and female alike.

Smash is an extremely diverse community because of love for the game. Go to an event and you'll see men and women of all races loving the same game.

Milktea and the rest of you overly sensitive people are taking anonymous internet comments WAY TOO FAR.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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No one should have to complain about being treated differently because of their gender.
I never have, and I never see any comments on VGBC referring to a male players body in an inappropriate way.

That fact that some female smashers are encouraged to just accept that this will happen and not complain for the comfort of their male friends...that's deplorable. That is awful.
In a perfect world, everyone gets along and flowers rain down from the sky. Sadly, this world is beyond imperfect and, as such, we have issues like this to deal with not only within our small gaming community but within the entire global community. We need people like milk tea who can take the backlash and hate in order to champion a just cause as well as those who create a positive change within inside (referencing the female gamers who are just playing the game and not voicing their opinions).

I'm not going to tell a girl that "Instead of playing the game and conforming to make perceptions, you should be more like milktea and make your opinion known to the community." Some people can handle that but people can enact change without even realizing it within their small group of friends.

And ultimately, there's the idea that girls play with dolls and boys plays videos games that's so prevelant without culture.
 
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SpandexBullets

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I dunno. I've seen a hell of a lot of extremely racist comments about Prog / D1 just because they are black. N word and everything.

Prog and D1 are male, last I checked. Yeah it's not about their body but close enough. Everyone has to deal with harsh words, male and female alike.

Smash is an extremely diverse community because of love for the game. Go to an event and you'll see men and women of all races loving the same game.

Milktea and the rest of you overly sensitive people are taking anonymous internet comments WAY TOO FAR.

Dude.

Read what you just typed.
 
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SpandexBullets

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In a perfect world, everyone would get along and flowers rain down from the sky. Sadly, this world is beyond imperfect and, as such, we have issues like this to deal with not only within our small gaming community but within the entire global community. We need people like milk tea who can take the backlash and hate in order to champion a just cause as well as those who create a positive change within inside (referencing the female gamers who are just playing the game and not voicing their opinions).
We can all be a champion for equality if we wanted to.
We could all take the backlash, and we could emerge a better, stronger community.

We need to listen to female gamers who are not enjoying the community to the extent that the present majority of male gamers are, and I really can't believe I had to type that.

MilkTea aims to be compassionate towards male gamers who haven't thought about sexism in the community, but she shouldn't have to.
So, we should all do it, just counter sexism where you see it and draw attention to it. Don't let it become background radiation, highlight it and show everyone exactly what they're saying when they might not even realise it.
 

Dylan_Tnga

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What an annoying lisp she has on top of everything else. Tried to watch the video but couldn't. Worse than a mango interview lol.

She is very brave. I wouldn't speak in public if I had a severe lisp.
 

SpandexBullets

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What an annoying lisp she has on top of everything else. Tried to watch the video but couldn't. Worse than a mango interview lol.

She is very brave. I wouldn't speak in public if I had a severe lisp.
I think, after complaining about her saying the same stuff for years, you might actually comment of what she's saying.
 

Mr. Cuddles

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oh god this again. i really hope she doent get bashed like anita sarkeeta did.anita got BASHED for saying simple things. i hope the same doesnt happen to her
 

equationcrunchor

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@ Dylan_Tnga Dylan_Tnga You probably live somewhere like I do, that's super tolerant and welcoming. The reality is, everywhere else there is a lot of sexism. You can't just mention it once, and then wait for it to solve itself. She's giving this talk not just to get attention but because sexism still runs rampant in other communities. People like us are obliged to pressure sexist communities to stop.
 

ChikoLad

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oh god this again. i really hope she doent get bashed like anita sarkeeta did.anita got BASHED for saying simple things. i hope the same doesnt happen to her
Anita did a lot wrong and has said a lot of awful things and even targets random people for no reason at all.

Anita is one person I do sincerely think is in it for the attention alone, at least at this point. She's not comparable to Milktea at all. Milktea hasn't done anything wrong or out of line, but Anita has on tons of occasions and even a lot of feminists don't like her. She tries to dictate what people can and can't like too, like trying to **** on Bayonetta even though the game is actually considered quite progressive by most women.
 

Sleek Media

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Let me save you one long-winded feminist speech.

There is sexism in gaming because feminists are unattractive, insecure, and have a financial incentive to convince you that there is sexism in gaming. You were born with the wrong sex and should feel bad.
 

ChikoLad

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Let me save you one long-winded feminist speech.

There is sexism in gaming because feminists are unattractive, insecure, and have a financial incentive to convince you that there is sexism in gaming. You were born with the wrong sex and should feel bad.
Was this supposed to be funny or edgy?
 
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