MIA: Ridley and Isaac

[PeterJude]

Ridley is a boss, Isaac was deleted.

A weak hypothesis, it doesn't explain why neither have a trophy, nor why they'd completely remove Isaac as an assist trophy.

 

[MagnesD3]

A weak hypothesis, it doesn't explain why neither have a trophy, nor why they'd completely remove Isaac as an assist trophy.

Easy, Ridley is being focused on as a boss for the Wii U version so his trophy is waiting for you in that game to unlock while Isaac was cut simply because Golden Sun is basically uncared for by nintendo.

 

[Tumbleweed Tuner]

We have to wait until the Wii U is out. For all we know, Issac could be a stage hazard on his own map or a Wii U assist trophy.

 

[PeterJude]

Easy, Ridley is being focused on as a boss for the Wii U version so his trophy is waiting for you in that game to unlock while Isaac was cut simply because Golden Sun is basically uncared for by nintendo.

Last Golden Sun game was 4 years ago, far more recent than the last F-Zero, StarFox, etc.

They have no reason to outright cut him as an assist trophy. Actually, I might have a but more of a look into the other assist trophies that aren't in the 3DS version.

 

[MagnesD3]

Last Golden Sun game was 4 years ago, far more recent than the last F-Zero, StarFox, etc.

They have no reason to outright cut him as an assist trophy. Actually, I might have a but more of a look into the other assist trophies that aren't in the 3DS version.

It honestly doesn't have to make sense.

 

[Bjørn Christian Noor]

Last Golden Sun game was 4 years ago, far more recent than the last F-Zero, StarFox, etc.

Don't matter, Captain Falcon and space animals have been in all the other smash games, while Isaac has been a assist trophy in _one_ game.

 

[PeterJude]

It honestly doesn't have to make sense.

So, what I've seen so far, still looking, but:

Assist trophies in Brawl that aren't in Smash 3DS:
Barbara - Has trophy
Excitebikes - Has trophy
Mr. Resetti - Has trophy

There's also Little Mac, who's playable and:
Grey Fox
Helirin
Isaac ("Robin" in Japan)
Jill
Ray MK III
Saki

I'd guess Grey Fox is gone, but the problem with the rest is sifting through the trophies looking for them. I'll see what I can find. In any case, the fact that Barbara, Excitebikes and Mr. Resetti got trophies, but Isaac is nowhere to be seen is bizarre. This isn't some tiny bit part character from a small series, he was a highly requested character.

Edit: The rest from what I can find:

Grey Fox - Can't find, probably cut with Snake
Helirin - Smash Bros object, can't find
Isaac - Can't find
Jill - Can't find, one off series, last installment pre-brawl
Ray MK III - Can't find, one off series, last installment pre-brawl
Saki - Seems there's a trophy, I can't see it, but the texture data has "Saki" listed

Long story short, Isaac is something quite exceptional on that cut list. A pretty big series, one that had a release post Brawl, a highly requested character, and no sight of him in the game. That's odd, that's very odd. When Barbara, Excitebikes and Mr Resetti all got trophies after not being assist trophies for the game, this just comes across as suspicious.

I have no idea why they would, maybe they did just decide to completely cut him from the 3DS game for giggles, but it just doesn't fit with the rest.

 

[HenryZusa]

3DS couldn't handle Ice Climbers and you want it to handle a Ridley trophy? C'mon!

 

[MagnesD3]

So, what I've seen so far, still looking, but:

Assist trophies in Brawl that aren't in Smash 3DS:
Barbara - Has trophy
Excitebikes - Has trophy
Mr. Resetti - Has trophy

There's also Little Mac, who's playable and:
Grey Fox
Helirin
Isaac ("Robin" in Japan)
Jill
Ray MK III
Saki

I'd guess Grey Fox is gone, but the problem with the rest is sifting through the trophies looking for them. I'll see what I can find. In any case, the fact that Barbara, Excitebikes and Mr. Resetti got trophies, but Isaac is nowhere to be seen is bizarre. This isn't some tiny bit part character from a small series, he was a highly requested character.

Edit: The rest from what I can find:

Grey Fox - Can't find, probably cut with Snake
Helirin - Smash Bros object, can't find
Isaac - Can't find
Jill - Can't find, one off series, last installment pre-brawl
Ray MK III - Can't find, one off series, last installment pre-brawl
Saki - Seems there's a trophy, I can't see it, but the texture data has "Saki" listed

Long story short, Isaac is something quite exceptional on that cut list. A pretty big series, one that had a release post Brawl, a highly requested character, and no sight of him in the game. That's odd, that's very odd. When Barbara, Excitebikes and Mr Resetti all got trophies after not being assist trophies for the game, this just comes across as suspicious.

I have no idea why they would, maybe they did just decide to completely cut him from the 3DS game for giggles, but it just doesn't fit with the rest.

The ones with trophies are more likely than the ones with no references IMO.

 

[Enigma14]

That doesn't really make sense for Isaac, a character from Golden Sun, a HANDHELD series, to be exclusive to the console version...

Methinks Sakurai forgot-eth much.

Just like Dark Dawn.

 

[Methacrylate]

Well, if we make the assumptions that the trophy theory and theory that there are 4 unique characters to both the 3DS and WiiU version which can be shared by linking are correct. Then add the idea that these 4 uniques between the versions are similar, we get:

2 non-clone newcomers and 2 clones

3DS version: Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Dark Pit, Dr. Mario
WiiU version: Ridley, Isaac, (insert clone), (insert clone)

Though I would consider Isaac more apt to be a unique to 3DS than both Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt.

 

[PeterJude]

The ones with trophies are more likely than the ones with no references IMO.

Another poor hypothesis with little to no backing.

If, and it's a extremely big if, there are characters unlocked through connecting the Wii U version to the 3DS version, then they likely wouldn't have standard trophies. That is, any characters already planned now as part of the initial release of both versions would, based on all prior evidence we have to work with, have no trophies to go with them.

The case for characters with trophies being playable is another beast all together, and has to do with DLC being an afterthought, rather than being planned prior to release. That is, DLC would be open to any and all characters, including those with prior content in the game, whether that be trophies, previous assist trophies and such. In this instance though the only reason trophies would be beneficial to chances is coincidental more than anything else, as characters with trophies are generally more represented in the series, and as such are more likely to be playable. This however is very different to what's being discussed here.

This entire situation though is a different beast, the question is why are Ridley and Isaac missing from the trophies, and other aspects in the game, when it would be a reasonable expectation that they'd receive some recognition. In their case it seems suspicious in particular as they are unlikely to be completely forgotten (and we know Ridley is in the Wii U version), so the question is why don't they have trophies. At this time there is no adequate answer to this question as the rest have quite weak reasoning attached.

The common thoughts though are:

1. Ridley is likely a stage boss, they wouldn't have trophies:
- They do
2. Maybe only a trophy for the Wii U one then?
- Maybe, but Wii U exclusive content already has some trophies, most notably with the assist trophies, and the lack of Ridley trophy does make this the only Smash game without Ridley yet
3. Isaac could be a Wii U exclusive assist trophy
- Wii U assist trophies have trophies on the 3DS version so far it seems
4. Maybe Isaac got canned
- Based on Barbara, Excitebike and Mr Resetti getting trophies after seemingly being canned, it would seem unlikely that Isaac would be outright canned

This of course doesn't imply that there will be some system to unlock them as playable with the Wii U, and I honestly doubt that's the case. It's just really interesting that these two lack a trophy all things considered. They may well end up having Wii U exclusive trophies, maybe they have special trophies that can be transferred to the 3DS from the Wii U, who really knows, but it's worth keeping the record straight on the matter.

 

[Malkior7]

Isaac can't be a Wii U only Assist Trophy because...?

None of this is that surprising. If the characters only exist on the Wii U version, having their trophies there is completely logical.

Because it's already known fact that the 3DS AT's and trophies would be mainly hand held based games and with Isaac being from a game that is purely handheld so not having anything from Golden Sun on the 3DS version just wouldn't make sense.

 

[PeterJude]

Well, if we make the assumptions that the trophy theory and theory that there are 4 unique characters to both the 3DS and WiiU version which can be shared by linking are correct. Then add the idea that these 4 uniques between the versions are similar, we get:

2 non-clone newcomers and 2 clones

3DS version: Bowser Jr., Duck Hunt, Dark Pit, Dr. Mario
WiiU version: Ridley, Isaac, (insert clone), (insert clone)

Though I would consider Isaac more apt to be a unique to 3DS than both Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt.

Even if it were the case, there are a lot of different options. If they are there to hype the game, I doubt that they'd leave them hidden until release, in which case the exclusives are likely starters. That opens a whole can of worms about who the 3DS' "exclusives" that need to be transferred could be. Though I doubt that's what's being done.

They could be having special characters unlocked by having both and doing a link between them, and these characters could unlock for both by use of the link, rather than already being on one or the other. That is, two characters (or 4, or 6, or 22,182,581) unlocked by the link on both consoles.

At this point though I really wouldn't get your hopes up. There's something interesting here, but I doubt that's it.

Because it's already known fact that the 3DS AT's and trophies would be mainly hand held based games and with Isaac being from a game that is purely handheld not having a At or trophy somewhere from Golden Sun on the 3DS version so not having anything from Golden Sun on the 3DS version just wouldn't make sense.

Also keep in mind that the Wii U exclusive assist trophies do seem to have trophies in the 3DS version anyhow.

 

[MagnesD3]

L

Another poor hypothesis with little to no backing.

If, and it's a extremely big if, there are characters unlocked through connecting the Wii U version to the 3DS version, then they likely wouldn't have standard trophies. That is, any characters already planned now as part of the initial release of both versions would, based on all prior evidence we have to work with, have no trophies to go with them.

The case for characters with trophies being playable is another beast all together, and has to do with DLC being an afterthought, rather than being planned prior to release. That is, DLC would be open to any and all characters, including those with prior content in the game, whether that be trophies, previous assist trophies and such. In this instance though the only reason trophies would be beneficial to chances is coincidental more than anything else, as characters with trophies are generally more represented in the series, and as such are more likely to be playable. This however is very different to what's being discussed here.

This entire situation though is a different beast, the question is why are Ridley and Isaac missing from the trophies, and other aspects in the game, when it would be a reasonable expectation that they'd receive some recognition. In their case it seems suspicious in particular as they are unlikely to be completely forgotten (and we know Ridley is in the Wii U version), so the question is why don't they have trophies. At this time there is no adequate answer to this question as the rest have quite weak reasoning attached.

The common thoughts though are:

1. Ridley is likely a stage boss, they wouldn't have trophies:
- They do
2. Maybe only a trophy for the Wii U one then?
- Maybe, but Wii U exclusive content already has some trophies, most notably with the assist trophies, and the lack of Ridley trophy does make this the only Smash game without Ridley yet
3. Isaac could be a Wii U exclusive assist trophy
- Wii U assist trophies have trophies on the 3DS version so far it seems
4. Maybe Isaac got canned
- Based on Barbara, Excitebike and Mr Resetti getting trophies after seemingly being canned, it would seem unlikely that Isaac would be outright canned

This of course doesn't imply that there will be some system to unlock them as playable with the Wii U, and I honestly doubt that's the case. It's just really interesting that these two lack a trophy all things considered. They may well end up having Wii U exclusive trophies, maybe they have special trophies that can be transferred to the 3DS from the Wii U, who really knows, but it's worth keeping the record straight on the matter.

That's a big assumption on your part about trophies deconfirming dlc. Were all assuming crap because nobody has a clue.

 

[Roxas215]

As a boss.

And regarding Isaac, wasn't the Wii U version confirmed to have more content such as Pokemon and Assist Trophies? Maybe he's there too?

That doesnt make sense though. GS is a handheld series. Why would he have a exclsuive trophy on the console version?

 

[PeterJude]

L

That's a big assumption on your part about trophies deconfirming dlc. Were all assuming crap because nobody has a clue.

Where did I say anything about disconfirming DLC? What I said was that playable characters don't get that kind of trophy, and if there are any more characters in the "initial" roster (that is, the roster once the Wii U version comes out) that they'd be extremely unlikely to have such trophies, and if they did, they'd be entirely unique.

I get it, you want Wolf back, you're hostile about anything that isn't literally screaming "Wolf is back", and you've got to get rid of any hint that Wolf isn't coming back as quickly as you can, but I never said he wasn't coming back. I'm just discussing the interesting point about a lack of Ridley and Isaac trophies, and how this may be relevant to the very unlikely scenario that they have kept some characters back in the "initial" roster for linking the Wii U and 3DS versions.

 

[fearless.leader]

The fact that Isaac is absent from the 3DS version is extremely backwards in my opinion.
Also, Ridley not having a trophy in the 3DS game indicates he is being mostly identified by his Other M form, which is stupid.

saving things for dlc i hope *waggles eyebrows* as a side note your sig makes me want girahim in smash.

 

[MagnesD3]

Where did I say anything about disconfirming DLC? What I said was that playable characters don't get that kind of trophy, and if there are any more characters in the "initial" roster (that is, the roster once the Wii U version comes out) that they'd be extremely unlikely to have such trophies, and if they did, they'd be entirely unique.

I get it, you want Wolf back, you're hostile about anything that isn't literally screaming "Wolf is back", and you've got to get rid of any hint that Wolf isn't coming back as quickly as you can, but I never said he wasn't coming back. I'm just discussing the interesting point about a lack of Ridley and Isaac trophies, and how this may be relevant to the very unlikely scenario that they have kept some characters back in the "initial" roster for linking the Wii U and 3DS versions.

How am I hostle ATM I don't think we are getting any dlc at all tbh. All I'm saying is I find trophy characters more likely than the ones that don't have trophies.

 

[PeterJude]

How am I hostle ATM I don't think we are getting any dlc at all tbh

By entirely ignoring the point of the post by quoting it and responding to something it doesn't even say perhaps?

I've been trying to discuss the idea of linked characters, and you keep coming back to DLC, which at no point did I rule or, nor did I ever suggest that trophies had any impact. It just seems you've wanted to drag the argument back to "but characters with trophies are possible", which was never disputed in the posts you were quoting. Ultimately you've been dragging the discussion off topic repeatedly by shift a discussion about Wii U linked characters to DLC, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The funny part is that in this post you're still going on about DLC. It's as though you're having a discussion with yourself and it just happens to have ended up in this thread.

Edit: To response to the rest of your edited post:

How am I hostle ATM I don't think we are getting any dlc at all tbh. All I'm saying is I find trophy characters more likely than the ones that don't have trophies.

That's nice and all, but you never really outlined why your argument made any sense, beyond repeating "I think they are more likely". I've explained my reasons, and I've explained it in the context of a 3DS-Wii U link, but you seem stuck on DLC, which as discussed prior, is unlikely to follow any rules we currently know.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ice Climbers could have only been on the Wii U version but weren't

Because they can't be on the 3DS version. No exclusives. They worked pretty hard to fix them, but think from a developer's standpoint; If you do nothing but concentrate on one aspect of the game, the rest suffer severely. Brawl's areas besides the SSE had this issue. The game's fun, but it isn't high quality in some areas. Some are very lacking. It has horrible balance due to this. Sakurai made a smart decision not to screw over the rest of the game for one cut. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if he gave up on them earlier, many veterans would be back. So they may have held back more. He was never going to return every veteran. He even said himself if he tried to do so, get this, it'd be many years before release. Making us wait that long for what might not be fixable is ludicrous.

That doesn't really make sense for Isaac, a character from Golden Sun, a HANDHELD series, to be exclusive to the console version...

Methinks Sakurai forgot-eth much.

Sakurai does not care that much about origins. If he did, Pokemon would not have any Anime influence. It also does support the "characters are unlocked by connecting both" or dlc in general theory, though.

Well he can be, but all the others have trophies in the 3DS version. Isaac is well and truly suspicious.

Not to mention the stage hazard bosses having trophies...

The simple point is that some characters might just be missed, but Ridley and Isaac? Ridley has been in every game in some form or another, him being completely out of this one is bizarre, not to mention Isaac going from assist trophy to non-existent.

Fixed up your phrase a little. Stage Bosses do not exist and never have. It's just some dumb fan made up term for Stage Hazards with a new twist. Anyway, I do think it's suspicious. And I do think him not having a trophy in both is ridiculous too. But you might notice how many damn Kid Icarus trophies there are. He clearly put most in there, so the Wii U version will hopefully have a severely better list.

Isaac might be in, I really want him in, but there's always a chance Golden Sun will just be ignored completely this time.

Ridley was deconfirmed awhile ago, you guys are so desperate :3

Just stop posting about it and enjoy purple charizard

That's not even similar looking to Ridley. But you also forgot the fact Sakurai has never once said "Ridley will not be playable in Smash 4". DLC, Data Transfer unlocks, we don't know. Yet. This isn't Waluigi where he actually said he never had a chance. Doesn't mean he will be, but an actual disconfirmation in a game that just recently got DLC is a bit harder to do now. You have to outright say you will never made them playable in order for it to be taken as a fact. The roster can be buffed now with characters, so "they aren't playable now" is not a legitimate disconfirmation anymore.

Because it's already known fact that the 3DS AT's and trophies would be mainly hand held based games and with Isaac being from a game that is purely handheld so not having anything from Golden Sun on the 3DS version just wouldn't make sense.

...No it wasn't. He said courses. And only some. People are putting words in his mouth again.

 

[Malkior7]

...No it wasn't. He said courses. And only some. People are putting words in his mouth again.

“There will be trophies in the 3DS and Wii U games, and each version will boast different types and models. The 3DS trophies will be mainly from handhelds and the Wii U version will feature trophies from the home-console games.”

Nope regarding trophies Sakurai's statement is above.

However, regarding assist trophies upon further research I didn't find anything say they are exclusive by the console they appear or exclusive by version at all so isaac would be deconfirmed as an assist trophy regardless thus I still stand by my post.

 

[MagnesD3]

By entirely ignoring the point of the post by quoting it and responding to something it doesn't even say perhaps?

I've been trying to discuss the idea of linked characters, and you keep coming back to DLC, which at no point did I rule or, nor did I ever suggest that trophies had any impact. It just seems you've wanted to drag the argument back to "but characters with trophies are possible", which was never disputed in the posts you were quoting. Ultimately you've been dragging the discussion off topic repeatedly by shift a discussion about Wii U linked characters to DLC, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

The funny part is that in this post you're still going on about DLC. It's as though you're having a discussion with yourself and it just happens to have ended up in this thread.

I consider linked characters dlc since there're not on the 3ds's code apparently.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nope regarding trophies Sakurai's statement is above.

However, regarding assist trophies upon further research I didn't find anything say they are exclusive by the console they appear on so Isaac could still be exclusive to Wii U if he is to be in that way but regardless I still stand by my previous post.

Well, then it applies to Trophies(as we've seen) and courses. He did say AT's can be exclusive, but didn't specify any reasons how it's handled in the Miiverse post. So there's nothing to stand by here. He didn't say that. Not that I disagree with the notion of keeping handheld AT's and console AT's separated in their appropriate origins, but he didn't regardless.

I think I slightly misread yours. Never mind about courses. He did say the Handheld version would focus more on Handheld courses at one time, though. And vice versa with the Console version. Note, that he didn't actually say "only", just focus.

 

[Lazor Llama]

Is there a Mach Rider trophy?

 

[Roy-Kun]

That doesnt make sense though. GS is a handheld series. Why would he have a exclsuive trophy on the console version?

I'm being hopeful here, don't bring my hopes down please.

 

[Cactusblah]

I'd say Ridley has a 50% chance of being a character rather than a boss/stage hazard
Isaac has an 80% chance of being a character with the Wii U version or as DLC.

 

[Quetzal77]

It's really bizarre Ridley isn't in the 3DS version, after being in all the other games so far. Even if he is a boss on Pyrosphere, I doubt they would make his trophy Wii U exclusive since Metroid has a history on handhelds as well. Maybe the description spoiled his role and that's why? It still seems weird. IMO it boosts his chances for being DLC playable. I think Sakurai knows how many fans he has and I really don't see how he could think making him a stage boss AND completely leaving him out of one version would be a good idea.

Isaac has been my most wanted newcomer for a very long time, but at this point with zero Golden Sun references and even Motoi Sakuraba not being credited as the series' composer, and the DLC rumours not mentioning him, I've given up. Maybe he'll be a link-up/DLC assist trophy.

 

[PikaSamus]

Easy, Ridley is being focused on as a boss for the Wii U version so his trophy is waiting for you in that game to unlock while Isaac was cut simply because Golden Sun is basically uncared for by nintendo.

It's completely possible that not one person has unlocked the trophies yet.
Metroid has had three handheld games (four if you count NES Classics: Metroid), with only one lacking Ridley. Golden Sun has had two handheld games, if I remember correctly. Since it has been stated that the 3DS will have trophies based on handheld games, it makes perfect sense to have both Ridley and Isaac as trophies. However, it is also possible that Ridley is a trophy in the Wii U version, due to having both Metroid and Super Metroid under his belt as console games (Other M's Ridley wasn't actually Ridley), along with appearing as a stage boss (really, Sakurai?) in Smash Wii U, or could have trophies in both. It's also possible that Isaac could be a Wii U exclusive trophy, but it's a little less likely.

 

[Reila]

Was Jill's Assist Trophy found or is she MIA as well? I don't really care about Isaac.

It is the superior version anyways

But it is not.

 

[Hayzie]

If Isaac is in they might as well change the series' name to Bushido Blade Bros.

Not that I'm against him being it. It'd be cool. It also doesn't matter if Isaac's trophy is in the Wii U version. It is the superior version anyways and the previous installments always draw from history. Who wouldn't want Isaac or Ridley in HD?

 

[MagnesD3]

It's completely possible that not one person has unlocked the trophies yet.
Metroid has had three handheld games (four if you count NES Classics: Metroid), with only one lacking Ridley. Golden Sun has had two handheld games, if I remember correctly. Since it has been stated that the 3DS will have trophies based on handheld games, it makes perfect sense to have both Ridley and Isaac as trophies. However, it is also possible that Ridley is a trophy in the Wii U version, due to having both Metroid and Super Metroid under his belt as console games (Other M's Ridley wasn't actually Ridley), along with appearing as a stage boss (really, Sakurai?) in Smash Wii U, or could have trophies in both. It's also possible that Isaac could be a Wii U exclusive trophy, but it's a little less likely.

The trophies have all been found out for the 3ds version, they are both still missing.

 

[Sehnsucht]

So, what I've seen so far, still looking, but:

Assist trophies in Brawl that aren't in Smash 3DS:
Barbara - Has trophy
Excitebikes - Has trophy
Mr. Resetti - Has trophy

There's also Little Mac, who's playable and:
Grey Fox
Helirin
Isaac ("Robin" in Japan)
Jill
Ray MK III
Saki

Saki was shown as an Assist Trophy way back in the April Direct.

You can also see him in this video, starting at 12:31.

The rest, however, are MIA as Assist Trophies (and/or regular trophies).

 

[PikaSamus]

I've seen a tip talking about Saki in the demo, so he's still a 3DS AT.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

As a boss.

And regarding Isaac, wasn't the Wii U version confirmed to have more content such as Pokemon and Assist Trophies? Maybe he's there too?

I feel writing as a boss is some kind of passive aggressive attack on the Ridley fan base or something.

We all know what his role is going to be since the characters in both versions are the same

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Ridley and Isaac Confirmed?

Please Samurai

No but for real this roster kinda blows, There's got to be more

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel writing as a boss is some kind of passive aggressive attack on the Ridley fan base or something.

We all know what his role is going to be since the characters in both versions are the same

We don't know what his role is at all. We assume what his role will be.

Remember, if somebody is first introduced on the Wii U version, they'll be DLC for the other version in return. They will have the same rosters no matter what. In this scenario, Sakurai is perfectly keeping his promise. We know a lot less than you think.

 

[Hayzie]

We don't know what his role is at all. We assume what his role will be.

Remember, if somebody is first introduced on the Wii U version, they'll be DLC for the other version in return. They will have the same rosters no matter what. In this scenario, Sakurai is perfectly keeping his promise. We know a lot less than you think.

 

[Gidy]

Ridley and Isaac are in Smash 4.

@10:14 & @14:21

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ridley and Isaac are in Smash 4.

@10:14 & @14:21

Crappy recolors are not characters(especially when they are not blatant references to them. The Daisy colors are obvious. Even Marth's Roy clothes and Ike's Chrom clothes are). Don't advertise false crap, please. Not cool, bro. :|