Mewtwo complaint thread

[Diddy Kong]

I thought I should make this thread as to not overflood the social thread with my negative opinion about Mewtwo's preformances in Smash 4.

So, let's just say I am really quite dissapointed in Mewtwo's new playstyle in this game. And I can't imagine I am the only one around here who feels this way. Common complaints are of course his ridiculously low weight and his low speed, but to me it's more than that.

I just do not get how Sakurai spends at least 4 full months in developing a character that barely has any moveset changes, doesn't have any Custom Moves as of yet, and is hardly balanced. I thought each and every character needed to be "accurately portraited" in Smash, and each character needed to "help bring balance into the game". Then why the hell do you make one of the most sluggish characters with enourmous lag on everything and almost no safe options the second lightest character in the game? Samurai plz...

Compare him to the likes of other low tiers in Melee, especially Bowser, Ness and Kirby, and you see how badly he holds up, even to them... From Melee to this game, at least these three characters got their issues fixed. Ness can safely recover, his projectiles aren't useless anymore, he can combo, has more safe options, and is far more speedy than before. Bowser got a major moveset overhaul, and was once considered a serious treat even (lol). Kirby got his issues mostly fixed in Brawl, and stayed mostly the same in Smash 4 with even some hidden power in him somewhere according to the latest rumours at the grapevine...

As a PAL Mewtwo main, I am really dissapointed in the weird nerfs Mewtwo got from Melee to Smash 4.

His weight got decreased by 17 points.
B Throw doesn't really kill anymore.
U Tilt and D Tilt are straight up worse moves than before.
Certain Melee mechanics gave Mewtwo better approach options, as WD > D Tilt. SHFFL DJL F Airs for example.
Melee Mewtwo had better rolls
Teleport was more fluid to and didn't have that weird helpless floating he does for a second or two afterwards
Lots of characters gotten faster since Melee, as Kirby, Ness, Bowser.. even Zelda......

Sure, kill power was buffed, and especially Dash attack, U Smash, F Smash and Confusion got way better. But why take away from a character that needed all around buffs for the most part..? I do not get this design approach from Sakurai and his dev team, and am hoping that this is some kind of joke.

Can we fill up the internet with complaints about Mewtwo like the whole anti-Hoo Hah movement did with their agenda against Diddy please?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

At least Up Throw didn't get nerfed then I would've been annoyed lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

At least Up Throw didn't get nerfed then I would've been annoyed lol

If his grab range would've gotten the neccecary buffs he could actually make use of it, but he doesn't...

 

[Sirgabite]

mewtwo does have the tools to be middle tier IMO, he has amazing kill power and setups, a reflector that has a litttle bigger hitbox than marios cape and his recovery is great, but his negatives are his weight, lack of safe combo's and ofcourse his grab range, but he does have some amazing throws, so you just gotta get used to it

but he does have some painfull MU's aswell *cough* Diddy and Fox *Cough*

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Real talk tho, this SHOULD be in the MU thread or the Moveset thread...

 

[Sirgabite]

lets see if the moderators do something with this thread, or if it stays

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

he's really awkward at first, and i do agreed with you at some points, like he can be hard to approach with at times, allthough after only 2 days of playing mewtwo (coming from falcon, so i rly had to rethink my playstyle) I cant say that i think he's a bad character. You just gotta know which attacks are worth using,

as to approach you can shortjump(or fulljump dont remember at the top of my head), airdodge and follow up with a fair, dtilt. Its timed pretty well when you reappear and the fair connects.. And his teleport got endlag even if you hit the ground, but its not nearly as bad as if you teleport and reappear in the air, then you float like a *****!

And fair is redonk, its god dang great, i reeeally enjoy this character after some games with him!

 

[Tino]

You're not still feeling a sour taste in your mouth about Diddy being nerfed, are ya?

Well anyways, I've never played Melee before to notice any changes between that and Sm4sh for Mewtwo, but to me, he plays just fine regardless of his ups and downs and whatever. He's not really a bad character, it just take sometime to get used to his playstyle and, of course, his lightweight status...although I already got used to Rosalina's lightweight status so I'm pretty sure I'll get used to his.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No am not actually, Diddy still plays amazing. But Mewtwo clearly doesn't hold up to the expectation. It's bad that Hoo Hah, despite getting nerfed, still kills Mewtwo at previously appropriate %s, but now this appropriate % is only valid for him, and Jigglypuff...

Rosalina has more than enough tools to get around her light weight. My problem is that Mewtwo does not.

 

[Tino]

You actually did the already nerfed Hoo-Hah on him and still kill him? Are you saying Mewtwo is lighter than Rosalina?

 

[Diddy Kong]

You actually did the already nerfed Hoo-Hah on him and still kill him? Are you saying Mewtwo is lighter than Rosalina?

Yes, Mewtwo dies to nerfed Hoo Hah and he's lighter than Rosalina indeed... The only character that's lighter than him is Jigglypuff.

 

[Tino]

Well, it does look like he's gonna have a rough matchup against certain characters due to his weight, lack of mobility and all that other negative stuff, but it's like I said, he's not really a bad character. It just means we gotta play smarter and use his movesets more wisely.

 

[SeanS]

Expecting Mewtwo to play how he did in Melee is ridiculous. This game is fundamentally different.

When will this community get that?

Oh well, I'll have fun doing the most damage per hit in the game, outprioritizing projectiles with Shadow Ball, easily winning footsies with dtilt, and killing people off 1 mistake with fair and uthrow while you still complain. God, I can't imagine how some of you would fare as G&W mains.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Of course I did not expect him to play exactly as in Melee. I was expecting Mewtwo to keep the positive influences from his Melee playstyle, as his big and fast rolls, big shield, better U Tilt and D Tilts and good Teleport. Maybe even expand on them. Yet, they gave Mewtwo the worst weight nerf in Smash history while he needed the biggest weight buff in Smash history and kept him slow while they heavily sped up slower characters before as, Ike, Ness, Bowser, Zelda, Samus, Yoshi, you name it...

 

[Chiroz]

Of course I did not expect him to play exactly as in Melee. I was expecting Mewtwo to keep the positive influences from his Melee playstyle, as his big and fast rolls, big shield, better U Tilt and D Tilts and good Teleport. Maybe even expand on them. Yet, they gave Mewtwo the worst weight nerf in Smash history while he needed the biggest weight buff in Smash history and kept him slow while they heavily sped up slower characters before as, Ike, Ness, Bowser, Zelda, Samus, Yoshi, you name it...

And they took away the good rolls and Teleport.

Gave him the worst teleport of all and one of if not the worst roll in the game in terms of range/speed/invincibility. They went all out with this glass cannon design and nerfed all of his defensive options for no reason as Melee Mewtwo was already known for getting completely wrecked on.

I like Mewtwo offensively and I like his overall playstyle, but once you play against someone who knows what he's doing then Mewtwo will make you feel like you're playing Melee again, you won't be playing or moving at all as you will just be stuck in juggles with no escape options the whole match.

 

[pikazz]

mained Mewtwo in melee since the day I unlocked when I was a child.
I always thought that melees rolls was terrible since it was sluggish and painful. its a nudge better in smash4 however in my opinion.

the teleport massive lag only accurd if you dont do it on the ground, sadly by doing on the ground and only go to left and right will still be in air, so you have to aim little down to make sure its grounded

sadly his weight is 2nd lightest ingame, but I wouldnt mind if he was 4th, so I hope they increase it just a little bit!

but otherwise, he is a viable character and I do expect him being mid tier or higher

 

[Chiroz]

mained Mewtwo in melee since the day I unlocked when I was a child.
I always thought that melees rolls was terrible since it was sluggish and painful. its a nudge better in smash4 however in my opinion.

the teleport massive lag only accurd if you dont do it on the ground, sadly by doing on the ground and only go to left and right will still be in air, so you have to aim little down to make sure its grounded

sadly his weight is 2nd lightest ingame, but I wouldnt mind if he was 4th, so I hope they increase it just a little bit!

but otherwise, he is a viable character and I do expect him being mid tier or higher

Rolls in melee were terrible, but Mewtwo's was one of the best in comparison to the rest of the cast. In Smash 4 rolls in general are good but Mewtwo's is terrible in comparison to the rest of the cast.

Yea I was talking about teleport in general. Teleporting in the ground has very limited options and situations where it would be useful.

 

[Sirgabite]

also, Mewtwo is not an easy character to pick up and play, to use him well, he might be one of the hardest characters in the game to learn because of how intense your desicion making and punishing capabilities will be, IMO he plays like an agresive punisher in this game and hes very different from everyone else in the cast

Rolls in melee were terrible, but Mewtwo's was one of the best in comparison to the rest of the cast. In Smash 4 rolls in general are good but Mewtwo's is terrible in comparison to the rest of the cast.

Yea I was talking about teleport in general. Teleporting in the ground has very limited options and situations where it would be useful.

teleport on the ground feels more like a move you use to get out of bad situation, because if they read your teleport you will still just have time to get a shield or a spot dodge, but using it offensivly is not a good option unless you edge cancel it

 

[KaptenFullkorn]

teleport on the ground feels more like a move you use to get out of bad situation, because if they read your teleport you will still just have time to get a shield or a spot dodge, but using it offensivly is not a good option unless you edge cancel it

exactly how i feel about it! I think that teleport could be better, but i dont see it as useless in the current state.

 

[A-money2121]

Look, you guys wanted Mewtwo. Now that we have him, you start complaining. It's either this or that. This community needs to make up their mind. ALL characters have weaknesses, not every character can be perfect. Turn those weaknesses into possibilities. Not every character is going to be as perfect as you want them to be. I don't know when this community will realize that this is Smash 4, not Melee.

Instead of complaining, get good. How do you think a character like Pikachu (who was said to SUCK during the 3DS days) managed to become top tier? Because people actually used him and learned techniques. Get real people. Your character has been granted back to you, and you should be happy about it. Remember the phrase "Ya get what cha' pay for?"

Ungrateful people...

 

[kirby3021]

My biggest gripes are his grab range and his weight. I'd love him to move up a few characters in weight and have a slightly extended grab, but aside from that I really like him. Oh, being able to act out of teleport would be nice, too.

 

[Toph_87]

The only complaint I have about Mewtwo is that when you are charging Shadow Ball it doesn't damage people when they approach him. That was in Melee, so I don't know why they took that out. I mean, people take damage when they approach Lucario charging his Aura Sphere so I assumed they would carry that ability over. As a player that came from Melee, it will take me some time to adjust to that.

 

[Shog]

My only complaint is that I have to wait to get this beast.

 

[warionumbah2]

I have mixed feelings on his viability since no one has used him in a tournament yet, but i can honestly say you'll need a secondary to back him up because he just doesn't cut it against a large portion of the cast.

He's viable but i cannot see him go through a tournament and place high with characters like Falcon,Fox,Sheik,Diddy being in almost every scene. Then there's customs, oh boy customs.

Fun character, high damage output and strong footsies. Reminds me of Marth and Ganon, he has the same problem as Marth with his MUs against certain characters: ZSS for Marth and a handful for Mewtwo.

When you play one of his bad MUs you'll feel so helpless.

Oh well, I'll have fun doing the most damage per hit in the game

Ganon hits waaaaay harder than Mewtwo.

also, Mewtwo is not an easy character to pick up and play, to use him well, he might be one of the hardest characters in the game to learn because of how intense your desicion making and punishing capabilities will be, IMO he plays like an agresive punisher in this game and hes very different from everyone else in the cast

This "hardest character to use" and "precision" card has been used for so many characters. Him being the hardest character to learn is a bold statement.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I don't think he's viable. Low tier he'll be. No matter his strengths, being bigger and lighter than Kirby is just... awful.

Rosalina may be big and light, but she has Luma. Which invalidates so many things.

I can't find anything Mewtwo has to compensate for being so light and big. Yeah D-tilt, U-smash, Shadow Ball, Confusion, his edge-guarding game, etc, are all great, but I don't think they're enough to compensate.

He's definetely not worse than Melee Mewtwo though. At least he has a usable shield that doesn't leave the edges of his body exposed all the time and Confusion is so much better. The tier gaps are much, much smaller in this game than in Melee.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Like others have said, all out glass canon. Great damage, footsies, great projectile, decent range on tail attacks, etc. He's going to have some bad matchups though.

I'd say he's looking mid-lower mid tier and a good pocket character.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Mewtwo is definatly not low tier but definatly has cons


Grabbing is tough

Up and back throw requires more damage for a ko but not to much though.

Second lightest character (but still requires higher damage to knock him out of the ring)

Lag in his up aerial & tilt

Close range attacks required (but trophy describes that its a risk and reward thing.)

Neutral aerial is too long I garaenteed you, you always hit the ground before the knockback hit.

Other than those mewtwo is good

Sakurai please fix this stuff in the next character tweak.

 

[Oniric Spriter]

 

[---]

lets see if the moderators do something with this thread, or if it stays

Will allow for now, but if things turn unnecessarily negative/un-constructive I'll lock it without a second thought.

Would probably change the thread's title.

 

[cstonic]

Mewtwo has weaknesses, quite a few.
But I feel like he just has a bigger learning curve and we're writing him off far too quickly.

Mewtwo has a ton of damage output and can kill quickly. He has defensive options, its just they are punishable if miss used. Pretty much the ultimate glass cannon.

 

[Wiley]

Mewtwo is Really strong vs a lot of the cast..... I don't know what all of this is about. He has a few terrible mu's but even still 2days in I'm having way too good a time with him.

 

[Modular Zeal]

My biggest gripes are his grab range and his weight. I'd love him to move up a few characters in weight and have a slightly extended grab, but aside from that I really like him. Oh, being able to act out of teleport would be nice, too.

Agreed, I'm only a decent player at the game so I don't have much to say, but the only real problems ive had with Mewtwo are being practically right next to the person and not being able to grab them. this is really all im asking for as of now

 

[warionumbah2]

Mewtwo is Really strong vs a lot of the cast..... I don't know what all of this is about. He has a few terrible mu's but even still 2days in I'm having way too good a time with him.

You've peaked my interest, who does he beat? Cause i can easily name 10 characters that have a distinct advantage against him.

 

[Wiley]

Well I'd say the biggest issue like many of the cast is that some of the higher tiers are his threats, I don't like Rosa, Falcon, Fox with him at all so far, But his range and reflect are so strong... he has quite reliable kill potential with a throw and range attack that both finish the job.
he shuts down side special rushers well.
Lucario is easy to me
Rob is beatable
the plumbers don't seem that bad, though mario > the others
villager is kind of even feeling but the reflect feels like it's slightly in your favor.
all the heavies are... very easy to me. DK, Bowser, D3, Ganon
I'm having a good time with him so far. This is day 2 though opinions both favorable and negative are all open to change. So far... really enjoy him though.

 

[Ze Diglett]

The only thing I have to complain about is his weight. Just... why??? Why would they make Mewtwo lighter from Melee?? I know he's supposed to be a glass cannon character, which I really do like, there's no need to make him this juggle/low% KO prone. Really, at least give him some better options for getting out of a juggle combo.
Other than that, I honestly think Mewtwo is a fantastic character, and I'm really have a lot of fun using him in friendlies and FG 1v1's. You'll definitely need to carry a pocket character that covers up his weaknesses, though, since he gets completely shut down in certain matchups.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Expecting Mewtwo to play how he did in Melee is ridiculous. This game is fundamentally different.

When will this community get that?

Oh well, I'll have fun doing the most damage per hit in the game, outprioritizing projectiles with Shadow Ball, easily winning footsies with dtilt, and killing people off 1 mistake with fair and uthrow while you still complain. God, I can't imagine how some of you would fare as G&W mains.

Most damage per hit?
What on earth are you talking about?

 

[ZombieVito]

He needs a weight buff, there's no denying that.

The lack of customs and not doing damage while charging Shadow Ball are annoying as well.

This things need fixing ASAP.

 

[Dark Phazon]

He needs a weight buff, there's no denying that.

The lack of customs and not doing damage while charging Shadow Ball are annoying as well.

This things need fixing ASAP.

Imo its a weight buff or
Faster F-Tilt
Shadow ball hurts while charging
And his Melee back throw power

But a weight buff would be ideal

His back throw imo should be same power as D.K's but Ness still should have the strongest plus Mewtwo can kill with Up throw aswell but his Up throw still wasent as strong as in melee....

Imo back throw not killing and none damaging shadow ball while charging hurt me the most...

And the weight nerf is so stupid i dont think it needs explaining....

Tbh though i have found it that with a weight buff he would be to damn long to kill.

If you notice even though he is light a lot of the time Mewtwo lives untill very high percent due to his insane mobility in the air with a very high double jump and teleport also good air dodge fast and quirky.

Also he can escape death air cpmbos quick and is one of the few characters who sort of defy the laws of smash and play how they want which can be extremely annoying to play against

Another char who does this and is fricking annoying is Sonic....
And Rosalina...

TLDR:
i think a weight buff might make mewtwo the most annoying character to KO in smash history it might not be the way to go if you think about it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No Mewtwo needs to at least be middle weight in my opinion. At least heavier than the princeses. He's far too slow to be this light. He has good aerial coverage, and the strongest projectile in the game. But being killed off this early as he does is just pitiful. I just really hope for buffs next patch...

 

[Sirgabite]

Imo back throw not killing and none damaging shadow ball while charging hurt me the most...

BThrow kills at around 130-140% at the ledge against mid weight characters without rage, lol