Meteor smash is key

[Deleted member]

I think meteor smashes are going to be huge for the competitive viability of this game. The blast zones are so big and survivability is so high that they are needed to get kills faster and keep the matches from extending too long

 

[Shaya]

Match length wouldn't determine viability though, but characters who are capable of getting kills are the ones which will come to dominate, yes.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Every character with a meteor that I've been able to play so far can combo into theirs Melee-style.

 

[Raijinken]

Meteors do seem pretty powerful, that's for sure. And it also seems like a fair majority of the cast has them, or at least a similarly powerful low-trajectory move.

 

[Shaya]

Is Meteor Cancelling still in the game? Are there moves that cannot be meteor cancelled if it exists ('a spike')?

 

[Deleted member]

Is Meteor Cancelling still in the game? Are there moves that cannot be meteor cancelled if it exists ('a spike')?

I haven't noticed yet, but i would assume meteor cancel is similar to brawl, considering all of the other brawl mechanics in this game

 

[Leonyx]

The way I see it, successful characters will either have strong KOing power (such as Bowser), or have strong gimping/off stage gameplay (someone like Villager). Spikes are certainly a part of that, but I don't think it's the only factor.

(Note: I haven't played so much as the demo yet. I've just been watching streams.)

 

[Deleted member]

The way I see it, successful characters will either have strong KOing power (such as Bowser), or have strong gimping/off stage gameplay (someone like Villager). Spikes are certainly a part of that, but I don't think it's the only factor.

(Note: I haven't played so much as the demo yet. I've just been watching streams.)

after playing the demo for close to 10 hours now, i have found that a lot of times it can take close to 200% to ko. After 100% it becomes more difficult to combo, and damage gets built a bit slower. So my goal is to meteor around 100% because it's is rare for them to recover, villager has an insane recovery so he difficult to kill with a meteor sometimes
(these are just my thoughts, I'm sure there are more play styles that work as well)

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Given how this game has wider blast zones, offstage kills are more important this time around because smash attacks at high percents don't reliably ko the opponent.

Because of this, yes, meteors and spikes are key. Anything that helps prevent recovery, unless it has some sort of really large drawback, is key.

 

[Leonyx]

after playing the demo for close to 10 hours now, i have found that a lot of times it can take close to 200% to ko. After 100% it becomes more difficult to combo, and damage gets built a bit slower. So my goal is to meteor around 100% because it's is rare for them to recover, villager has an insane recovery so he difficult to kill with a meteor sometimes
(these are just my thoughts, I'm sure there are more play styles that work as well)

What character have you been playing? I think the only character with strong KO power in the demo would be Link, and his probably isn't as good as a real heavy hitter. I've seen characters like Ganondorf KO at like 70% with an Fair.

Not to say that your strategy isn't solid. I think players are going to have to be more comfortable leaving the stage to finish off their opponent rather than waiting on stage, since almost every character can recover from any point off stage.

 

[Deleted member]

What character have you been playing? I think the only character with strong KO power in the demo would be Link, and his probably isn't as good as a real heavy hitter. I've seen characters like Ganondorf KO at like 70% with an Fair.

Not to say that your strategy isn't solid. I think players are going to have to be more comfortable leaving the stage to finish off their opponent rather than waiting on stage, since almost every character can recover from any point off stage.

I understand, I have been trying all of the characters in the demo. Mario and mega man i usually can get off a meteor to kill. Link i can get away with a dash attack to kill, but villager and pikachu i just cant really figure out how to kill. Pretty sure pikas f smash is good killing move though. I have gotten link's meteor off a few times to get a kill like 30-50% sooner, but i can't do his consistently

 

[Leonyx]

Again, haven't played the game, but I think that Villager wants to gimp using his tree and bowling ball from under the stage. If they go above stage, you've got Fair and Bair to keep them off the stage. I also saw a really cheesy kill by a CPU Villager by using the watering can to keep a Link from grabbing the stage. I think Villager's specialty is gimp kills.

Pikachu's got a good recovery, so you shouldn't be afraid to follow your foe and hit them with some aerials to keep them from the stage. There's also the new spike from Thunder, and the projectile spam. Pikachu's probably better at racking up damage than kills though, so I can understand the difficulty.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, haven't played the game, but I think that Villager wants to gimp using his tree and bowling ball from under the stage. If they go above stage, you've got Fair and Bair to keep them off the stage. I also saw a really cheesy kill by a CPU Villager by using the watering can to keep a Link from grabbing the stage. I think Villager's specialty is gimp kills.

Pikachu's got a good recovery, so you shouldn't be afraid to follow your foe and hit them with some aerials to keep them from the stage. There's also the new spike from Thunder, and the projectile spam. Pikachu's probably better at racking up damage than kills though, so I can understand the difficulty.

pikachus thunder spike is much harder to do than it seems, they have to be in the thunder cloud to make them spike down

 

[L9999]

If Meteor Smash is the key than DK has a chance in this game? He has 4 Meteor Smashes. F-Air, D-B, Side-B, and D-Air.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Again, haven't played the game, but I think that Villager wants to gimp using his tree and bowling ball from under the stage. If they go above stage, you've got Fair and Bair to keep them off the stage. I also saw a really cheesy kill by a CPU Villager by using the watering can to keep a Link from grabbing the stage. I think Villager's specialty is gimp kills.

Pikachu's got a good recovery, so you shouldn't be afraid to follow your foe and hit them with some aerials to keep them from the stage. There's also the new spike from Thunder, and the projectile spam. Pikachu's probably better at racking up damage than kills though, so I can understand the difficulty.

Villager can actually gimp Link in a single combo from 0%, it seems. FThrow near the edge of Battlefield leads to a pretty near guaranteed kill with Slingshot abuse. Now, it's certainly possible for the Link to use DI to make Villager's life harder by requiring precise aim and intelligent reads, but once that FThrow lands the whole situation seems to be far more in Villager's favour than it is Link's.

As for Pikachu, NAir offstage definitely looks like a decent option. DSmash is pretty powerful, but only if your opponent is stupid enough to stay in it. (It can be escaped via SDI just before the last hit, but it's still safe on hit because they're in hitstun until the end of the animation even if they SDI out.) USmash is still one of the best in the game, it seems like. Good kill power, sends opponents off the top at around 130% or so from the centre of Battlefield while being relatively easy to land. FAir and DAir seem to have kill power as well, IIRC. Also, don't forget about Skull Bash! No-one ever uses that move competitively, but perhaps it might be possible to get a combo or read into a partially-charged Skull Bash? I wonder how hard that hits in this game...

Sorry this is sort of off-topic, but people are complaining about being unable to KO in a reasonable timeframe and I'm trying to suggest ways to get around that.

 

[Deleted member]

I made this because with my time with the demo, it was actually difficult to get a kill in matches in 2 minutes and would just result in sudden death. Once i got better with meteor in this game, and same with my friends, we started getting kills in the 2 minutes. The blast zones are pretty ridiculous and need very high% to have a chance to kill

 

[SonicZeroX]

So far I've seen a number of footstool gimps since it forces you to fall for a while before you can do anything. It seems especially deadly if you footstool someone after their second jump is used.

 

[Deleted member]

So far I've seen a number of footstool gimps since it forces you to fall for a while before you can do anything. It seems especially deadly if you footstool someone after their second jump is used.

Been killed by CPU's like this a couple times, you can't do anything

 

[L9999]

So far I've seen a number of footstool gimps since it forces you to fall for a while before you can do anything. It seems especially deadly if you footstool someone after their second jump is used.

LITTLE MAC GIMPED SOMETHING!!!!!!!

 

[TastyCarcass]

There are other ways of edgeguarding than spiking/meteor smashes. Just knocking them back again or gimping their recovery after they have wasted their double jump for example

 

[L9999]

There are other ways of edgeguarding than spiking/meteor smashes. Just knocking them back again or gimping their recovery after they have wasted their double jump for example

Like in the video above?

 

[Leonyx]

Villager can actually gimp Link in a single combo from 0%, it seems. FThrow near the edge of Battlefield leads to a pretty near guaranteed kill with Slingshot abuse. Now, it's certainly possible for the Link to use DI to make Villager's life harder by requiring precise aim and intelligent reads, but once that FThrow lands the whole situation seems to be far more in Villager's favour than it is Link's.

As for Pikachu, NAir offstage definitely looks like a decent option. DSmash is pretty powerful, but only if your opponent is stupid enough to stay in it. (It can be escaped via SDI just before the last hit, but it's still safe on hit because they're in hitstun until the end of the animation even if they SDI out.) USmash is still one of the best in the game, it seems like. Good kill power, sends opponents off the top at around 130% or so from the centre of Battlefield while being relatively easy to land. FAir and DAir seem to have kill power as well, IIRC. Also, don't forget about Skull Bash! No-one ever uses that move competitively, but perhaps it might be possible to get a combo or read into a partially-charged Skull Bash? I wonder how hard that hits in this game...

Sorry this is sort of off-topic, but people are complaining about being unable to KO in a reasonable timeframe and I'm trying to suggest ways to get around that.

Thanks for that. I don't think discussing the best way to kill someone in this game is off topic at all. It's more interesting to talk about than just spikes. I definitely agree that there are plenty of more unique ways to KO than just the regular smash attack. Especially since people can get back on stage so easily now.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Thanks for that. I don't think discussing the best way to kill someone in this game is off topic at all. It's more interesting to talk about than just spikes. I definitely agree that there are plenty of more unique ways to KO than just the regular smash attack. Especially since people can get back on stage so easily now.

Actually, even Smash Attacks still work, just have to be a little more precise with them. They seem to be faster at base overall for many characters, so with a proper read you can charge them to get a KO.

Also, you can get equipment that lets you charge Smash Attacks for longer in exchange for 1.3x damage at full charge. Hyper Smash, the property is called. That can make getting reads easier, since you don't have to worry as much about starting it too early.

 

[Leonyx]

Actually, even Smash Attacks still work, just have to be a little more precise with them. They seem to be faster at base overall for many characters, so with a proper read you can charge them to get a KO.

I agree, I just think that it's significantly harder to kill that way in this game unless you have a really strong KO move. I still haven't played the demo, so maybe I shouldn't be talking.

 

[Zek]

I agree, I just think that it's significantly harder to kill that way in this game unless you have a really strong KO move. I still haven't played the demo, so maybe I shouldn't be talking.

I've KOed CPUs below 100% countless times in the demo with ordinary smash attacks, though I don't know if they do any DI. You do need to know what your KO moves are though and save them for the end to avoid the repeat penalty.

 

[Leonyx]

I've KOed CPUs below 100% countless times in the demo with ordinary smash attacks, though I don't know if they do any DI. You do need to know what your KO moves are though and save them for the end to avoid the repeat penalty.

Who were you playing as? I've seen quite a few characters KO at smaller percentages, but most of those were from heavy fighters.

 

[Senario]

Match length wouldn't determine viability though, but characters who are capable of getting kills are the ones which will come to dominate, yes.

Actually match length may have a huge effect on competitive viability. Nobody is going to want to sit around and watch a really long game because nobody dies when you would expect them to. I'm getting bored with 2 stocks mode in this game on VG bootcamp, and that is bad.

 

[SonicZeroX]

TBH the VGBootcamp guys aren't that good

Zero on the other hand is really good at this game and he's been really great to watch. He's landed all sorts of crazy KOs like way off the screen spikes and multiple Falcon Punches.

 

[Ganreizu]

TBH the VGBootcamp guys aren't that good

Zero on the other hand is really good at this game and he's been really great to watch. He's landed all sorts of crazy KOs like way off the screen spikes and multiple Falcon Punches.

And this is at all relevant how?

VGbootcamp boys aren't as accomplished as zero in rankings. Regardless they're pulling more views at any given time. I wonder why...

 

[Bladeviper]

And this is at all relevant how?

VGbootcamp boys aren't as accomplished as zero in rankings. Regardless they're pulling more views at any given time. I wonder why...

and your post is more relevant than his because?

on topic the tournament from the tourny finder guys was pretty good, each match didnt last too long around 4-5 per round and around 10 to 15 minutes depending on how many games it went too.

 

[Ganreizu]

and your post is more relevant than his because?

on topic the tournament from the tourny finder guys was pretty good, each match didnt last too long around 4-5 per round and around 10 to 15 minutes depending on how many games it went too.

It's relevant to his but not than his.

The tournylocator players were really solid given how much time they could have possibly dedicated to playing their characters since it was like a day 1 tourny or something.

On topic, i wonder, if you compared the match lengths in that tournament that got meteors/spikes to the ones that didn't, would the match times be wildly different? They would have to be for meteor/spike kills to be "key", but i'm more inclined to say solid edgeguarding in general is key rather than one specific aspect of edgeguarding being key.

 

[Bladeviper]

It's relevant to his but not than his.

The tournylocator players were really solid given how much time they could have possibly dedicated to playing their characters since it was like a day 1 tourny or something.

On topic, i wonder, if you compared the match lengths in that tournament that got meteors/spikes to the ones that didn't, would the match times be wildly different?

im not sure but the shorter matches were the ones they chased people offstage meteors or no

 

[Conda]

Every character with a meteor that I've been able to play so far can combo into theirs Melee-style.

I'm not sure if megaman can - he's more of a chain character, not a combo character. At least from my testing so far.

 

[Shaya]

There are better threads to cover this conversation now which has moved from "meteor smashes" to general match timing / kill power thread...