Q&A Meta Knight: Questions & Answers Thread (Don't make or reply to new threads just asking questions)

[ぱみゅ]

The whole point is that it is not guaranteed, but if you do it not too awfully often (as in, once every 5 or 6 sets) you are more likely to pull it off, and the result is worth it.
If you mess up, or they actually expect and avoid it, you lose nothing.

 

[Ulevo]

Lmao wtf is going on.

Players will try DIing in d-throw every once in a while, if they DI in and you go for dash > up-smash, some characters fall out or don't get hit or whatever.

And against those characters or when you have rage you opt for neutral air.

If they're consistently DIing away and you get dash attack followups > nair/nado/whatever from d-throw then they'll probably try DIing in.
This is a legitimate mix-up option for those situations.

People don't DI perfectly every time lmao, and if you're consistently mixing up your followups, they won't know where they're supposed to DI. (it might surprise you Ulevo, but players of other characters don't spend their days on the MK boards learning exactly which angle to DI d-throw at which %s to avoid the worst followups)

Learning to hold the stick to the left or right away from Meta Knight during a throw that takes a second to launch the opponent is not brain intensive. The worst that can happen if they DI away is they set up for a dash attack 3, up air, back air 1 which can be teched since it is heavily telegraphed.

 

[Ghostbone]

And against those characters or when you have rage you opt for neutral air.

What's the advantage of nair though? (i mean if they go too high you could just uair chain them?)

Learning to hold the stick to the left or right away from Meta Knight during a throw that takes a second to launch the opponent is not brain intensive. The worst that can happen if they DI away is they set up for a dash attack 3, up air, back air 1 which can be teched since it is heavily telegraphed.

Well mix up your bairs by doing two hits before you land to throw off their tech timing lol.
That or just go for uair > nair or something.
That's still a lot more damage than just d-throw > nair if they DI in and and that's all you go for, so clearly the right option for your opponent in that scenario is to just DI in every time because you'll never go for d-throw > bair.

Why are you so pessimistic lmao, Fox's didn't give up learning u-throw > uair in melee just because opponents can SDI uair.

 

[busken]

Misplayed :/

 

[Amadeus9]

this isn't the social

 

[Dach]

Is anything else a decent kill move besides f-smash, down-b, and up-b?

Nair is good offstage and bair works sometimes but isn't really optimal for killing

 

[Fr8]

So i've started to pick up MetaKnight, and I need a bit of help pulling off the uair to up b combom I can usually, get them in the air and hit them once or twice with a uair, but they always get out. I play without tap jump on, any advice such as button switches or things to watch for?

 

[Grimtixx]

Hi there, MK people. I have a question about this character. Before I became a competitive player for Smash 4 I used to play Brawl casually with MK. He was my favorite character in Brawl because I absolutely loved him in the Kirby series. I've heard really good things about MK in this game, and I'm thinking about picking him up again to use alongside my current main Lucas. How well would you guys say MK does against the matchups that Lucas struggles with? I find that Mario, ZSS, Sheik and Pikachu give Lucas the most trouble.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

Im just peeking around, but how do you guys feel about metaknights grabs and his upsmash. The does the expanded hixbox make it more useful? i know if you're trying to play safe, dthrow upsamsh is a confirmed combo

 

[Jamurai]

Hi there, MK people. I have a question about this character. Before I became a competitive player for Smash 4 I used to play Brawl casually with MK. He was my favorite character in Brawl because I absolutely loved him in the Kirby series. I've heard really good things about MK in this game, and I'm thinking about picking him up again to use alongside my current main Lucas. How well would you guys say MK does against the matchups that Lucas struggles with? I find that Mario, ZSS, Sheik and Pikachu give Lucas the most trouble.

Hello. We lose to ZSS and Sheik (-1) but we're pretty good vs Mario and Pikachu.

Im just peeking around, but how do you guys feel about metaknights grabs and his upsmash. The does the expanded hixbox make it more useful? i know if you're trying to play safe, dthrow upsamsh is a confirmed combo

MK's dash grab is excellent and his throws are all good especially Fthrow. Usmash is a great anti-air and has surprisingly good killing power especially on light characters. Very useful in matchups like Peach and Jigglypuff.

Dthrow > Usmash is fine and it can combo into Up-B at 0% if the opponent doesn't DI, but Dthrow > Nair is also guaranteed and does more damage by 1%. If you're going for optimal damage, if they DI away (which they probably will do the first time you throw them) dash attack will combo and then you can do another followup off of that eg. Uair then FF Nair against fast fallers or big characters, which does 30% total. If they DI up then full hop Tornado will combo which also does about 30% total.

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

Also, ive been practicing but with each jump-upair i dont seem to get as much height as i should be? Do i just need to change my button layout to jump higher? ((im just picking up metakight)

 

[2Quick]

Message deleted

 

[Kaffei]

I'm **** vs DDD

What do I do vs Gordos when he just lets them bounce slowly in front of him

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm **** vs DDD

What do I do vs Gordos when he just lets them bounce slowly in front of him

Dedede is easy. Gordos always trip people up when they first try this MU.

I've found Fair to be too inconsistent for slapping them back so I use retreating Nair/Bair a bit. If you're close enough, Dimensional Cape will also send a message.

Also pay attention to your positioning on stage when they do this. If their back is at the ledge, I back off and let them approach me a little bit so they're away from the ledge. I do this so I can get the roll-behind as a mix up. Alternatively, you can just DA them if your timing is right. If you're not feeling confident, just slowly kite them and use more of the stage to increase your options for navigating past Gordos. After you get in though, we sodomize Dedede. His moves are too slow to react to our pressure correctly. Main things to worry about in this MU are:

1. How does the Dedede land? Usually its Dair or Bair. Sometimes B Reverse Inhale. Sometimes Gordo. Either way, hover in mid range and focus on getting him in the air. You always have a chance to punish his landing which is why I find this MU easy because you more chances to Death Combo him compared to many other characters.

2. Gordos. If you're not close enough to D3 when he uses this, you're probably better off waitinf and seeing how he responds to you being cautious of the Gordo. Always pay attention to what angle to bounce them at. It will give you clues as to what they want. If they do a short lob where the D3 is just standing behind it and you're at close range, the Dedede is trying to goad you into shielding so he can run up and grab you. If they throw it at you at mid range, there's a strong chance they want you to hit it back so they can surprise you with throwing it back at you. Gordos are telegraphed. People just get scared because they're big ass, lingering hitboxes. They aren't that big of a deal though.

3. The ground game. Dedede's range is exceptional but end lag on his moves is pretty bad. If you get a decent read you can literally just Cape him and scare him off whatever he's banking on. The main thing is just being patient, knowing when you can dart in and just get him in the air. I play pretty cautiously in the beginning because you don't want to get grabbed at low percents. Dedede is juggle bait so you want to take advantage of that.

We totally win this MU but its one of those ones where typical Meta Knight BnB neutral doesn't work as effectively so you have to get creative. The plus side is that, all you need is working hands and a pulse to combo Dedede.

 

[Kaffei]

Thanks buddy

 

[tyro8]

thnkz i struggled against D3 too

 

[Deleted member]

All of what Technology said is right. Meta Knight easily wins that MU.

I've wanted to ask myself though, is it good to use dairs onstage to apply pressure? I've seen players like Abadango do it and I wanted people's thoughts on it.

 

[Grimtixx]

Aight, I've got one more question. I've decided to pick back up Meta-Knight after spending my time with other characters, and I was wondering if there was a Meta-Knight Skype and/or Discord group that I could join?

 

[Amadeus9]

All of what Technology said is right. Meta Knight easily wins that MU.

I've wanted to ask myself though, is it good to use dairs onstage to apply pressure? I've seen players like Abadango do it and I wanted people's thoughts on it.

Dair is good because it's basically unpunishable and has pretty decent reward on hit, you either gain just positional advantage or you gain positional advantage and a follow up through a tech chase. Don't just spam it tho, eventually you will get punished, but properly playing neutral with a mix of dair, dtilt, ftilt, dash attack, and bair is what is most effective. Dair and dtilt are just really fantastic pokes in general that have really great reward on hit.

 

[Deleted member]

Aight, I've got one more question. I've decided to pick back up Meta-Knight after spending my time with other characters, and I was wondering if there was a Meta-Knight Skype and/or Discord group that I could join?

Yes, PM me your Skype name and I'll add you to our Skype chat.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Dair is also useful because it can force a tech chase situation at mid percents (40% + ish). Dair causes hard knockback and with it being Frame 4, its hard to tech on reaction. This means you can get follow ups such as Tornado, Dimensional Cape, Dash Attack and more.

On stage it's a good poking and space denying tool. Meta Knight's Fair sucks and F-Tilt 3 is a moderate commitment so he lacks reliable tools for controlling the air space in front of him. Dair helps circumvent this by being Frame 4, and coupled with our 6 jumps, allows MK to control diagonal space below him well. As mentioned above, it's not something to be spammed but its an effective tool when used correctly.

 

[Amadeus9]

Oh also, for some reason dair stage spikes really hard. Why? Ask Sakurai.

Seriously use dair offstage

 

[SubconsciousRose]

Hello MK boards!
Just wanted to stop by to ask a quick question about MK
Does Shuttle Loop have any intangibility frames to it because I have found nothing suggesting so but I Shuttle Looped through a Wario's full waft offstage just earlier and pausing the replay makes it appear as if MK is clearly within the hitbox of Waft but I didn't get hit at all.

 

[Kaffei]

Hello MK boards!
Just wanted to stop by to ask a quick question about MK
Does Shuttle Loop have any intangibility frames to it because I have found nothing suggesting so but I Shuttle Looped through a Wario's full waft offstage just earlier and pausing the replay makes it appear as if MK is clearly within the hitbox of Waft but I didn't get hit at all.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Meta Knight

According to this, no


On an unrelated note, can anyone here give me some advice vs ROB? I struggle a lot in the neutral

 

[eclipsis17]

Pretty sure it has no intangibility.
Here are some other suggestions:
1. Meta Knight found a blind spot of Waft (most likely) Edit: Or rather Waft has less active frames than the animation would suggest.
2. Meta Knight's hurtbox doesn't match his SL animation?

 

[ぱみゅ]

My vote is on 2, with a dash of 1. There's a bit of disjoint on Shuttle Loop, so probably it hit Wario before the Waft hit you, meaning that for some reason Waft's hitbox wouldn't reach you but the animation did.
That's just a guess on the description, it's hard to figure without video evidence.

Whatever the case, remember there is not intangibility so don't use it to challenge many moves.

 

[eclipsis17]

Okay so I have questions for you guys.

1. Do you think forgoing a small punish which would push the opponent outside of death combo range from dash attack, which means you still retain the ability to death combo them is worth it? In other words, don't punish them so they stay in the "golden percent" . This leads into my next question.

2. How do you avoid tunnelling on just landing that one dash attack which will give you the opportunity to kill them? I'm constantly finding myself becoming too predictable, only searching for that dash attack. I think part of it stems from my fear of the melee marth syndrome as I struggle to kill at later percents.

3. What are some options after you FSmash (on block or on whiff) in neutral? My most commonly used aggressive go to options currently are dash back pivot FSmash (to catch a dash attack/grab) and d-tilt/f-tilt. What other options do you find effective?

4. You'll remember before I started that "discussion" above about the RAR bair jab lock from down throw. (Sorry about that). (I originally asked this in the social but have moved it here for visibility) With the My Smash Corner video being released, he showcased Perfect Pivot Bair jab lock from down throw. Has anyone tested this to check if this is actually guaranteed? If not, I'll have to hit the lab. If it is guaranteed, it will provide a very powerful mixup from downthrow (though once people learn to tech it...) .

Thanks in advance!

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Okay so I have questions for you guys.

1. Do you think forgoing a small punish which would push the opponent outside of death combo range from dash attack, which means you still retain the ability to death combo them is worth it? In other words, don't punish them so they stay in the "golden percent" . This leads into my next question.

2. How do you avoid tunnelling on just landing that one dash attack which will give you the opportunity to kill them? I'm constantly finding myself becoming too predictable, only searching for that dash attack. I think part of it stems from my fear of the melee marth syndrome as I struggle to kill at later percents.

3. What are some options after you FSmash (on block or on whiff) in neutral? My most commonly used aggressive go to options currently are dash back pivot FSmash (to catch a dash attack/grab) and d-tilt/f-tilt. What other options do you find effective?

4. You'll remember before I started that "discussion" above about the RAR bair jab lock from down throw. (Sorry about that). (I originally asked this in the social but have moved it here for visibility) With the My Smash Corner video being released, he showcased Perfect Pivot Bair jab lock from down throw. Has anyone tested this to check if this is actually guaranteed? If not, I'll have to hit the lab. If it is guaranteed, it will provide a very powerful mixup from downthrow (though once people learn to tech it...) .

Thanks in advance!

Hello. In order:

1/2. It kind of depends on the situation and opponent. Taking into consideration other factors like Rage and what the opponent's options are if you are a few frames off on your timing is important. If I think I can get away with it, I will still opt for a Death Combo if its just outside of the normal % range for its starter because sometimes you can still land it. Although if the opponent has a frame 3 Nair or something with Super Armor (or both), then you may want not want to go for it. Alternatively, if you know the opponent will airdodge out if even given the chance, you can do what Ito does and wait out the airdodge and THEN go for the combo.

Also keep in mind that Up-Tilt's soutspot almost always allows you to go for Death Combos later than Dash Attacks do. If you haven't been working on your Perfect Pivot game, I suggest you do. Remember that Dash Attack is your most reliable Death Combo starter but it's not the only one. It's just as important to be proficient from starting them from D-Throw/FThrow as well as U-Tilt and your D-Tilt Locks. Forward Throw allows you to get Death Combos off at roughly the same percent at Dash Attack (depending on DI, but because its a fast throw and people are more used to Down Throw, its really hard to DI correctly). Down Throw can sometimes let you get Death Combos off but because of the longer throw animation, it's easier to DI (but if you can condition them to DI up; ie "fishing" for Dash Attacks out of Down Throw, you can land these sometimes). Throws are very important because people will tend to sit in shield a lot because of Dash Attack.

Anyway, other times I will hold off on doing damage if I think this might be my only chance to win or even up the game. It really just depends.

3. The options you listed are solid but you can also get away with Dash Attack and Dash Grab; especially if you hit their shield. You just have to pay attention to what they do after they get hit. This is another case where conditioning comes in handy. If the opponent expects you to Dash Attack after your F-Smash, then you might see a shield or spotdodge. If that's the case, you can bait that and free punish. You unless you didn't space it right or are overusing it, you usually don't come out in a negative situation with F-Smash so its fun to toss in out in neutral in close/mid range to see how the opponent reactions. Even if you're not in a position to hit them unless they run in stupidly, the sheer threat of the move being so powerful can provide intel on some bad habits they may have.

4. It seems like it's guaranteed on certain characters, however more testing is needed. We're all testing this stuff after that last video got dropped. The ledge cancel Jab stuff particularly piqued my interests.

Hope this helped.

 

[Funkermonster]

So... as a Mega Man player, would MK be ok as a secondary or nah? While I await for Corrin to be released and see how good he turns out (fingers crossed), I've been deciding I might need a secondary after all and I've been looking at Meta Knight: being my favorite character from the Kirby franchise and one of the few other top/high tiers I'd actually enjoy using? I personally don't believe MM has too many losing MUs, but the few that he does have don't exactly help his viability: . Mostly Sheik is the worst offender (Mario's pretty controversial ranging from -1 to -1.5 for us, but I'm not too convinced yet) and I think he'd otherwise be solo-viable if not for her alone, and from what I've been hearing Meta Knight seems to stand a relatively decent shot against her compared to most other characters. On top of that his playstyle is essentially the opposite of Mega Man's, and your secondary should usually be the opposite of your main, right? Meta Knight has a godly combo game and is arguably the best at killing, but his neutral and approach options are pretty pathetic. Mega Man has arguably one of the best neutrals from lemons and shenangians with his other projectiles (mainly metal blades, leaf shield, air shooter, and crash bomber), but he suffers from 'meh' kill options and a generally weak damage output.Sadly, as much as I love Greninja, he helps with Mario and Falcon a little bit but Sheik still walks all over him, and unless she gets nerfed I don't think my dream team's gonna work anymore

Also, how much do you think latency affects him online? Been told his learning curve is a bit high and is especially frustrating to work with online, and i can think I can see why. Haven't played with him offline yet against my friends (local tomorrow and a monthly the day after tomorrow so that'll be a first) but I can somewhat consistently pull off his bnb Uair > Shuttle Loop combo in training mode, but online against live opponents I've only managed to pull it off like once as far as I can remember.

 

[warionumbah2]

There's much better options in the game, use mario or some other top tier if sheik and mario are your porblems. MK doesn't beat/do well vs sheik and that fact won't change.

You've been looking for secondaries for months maybe you should stick with MM and figure the MU out if you can.

 

[Dr. Shades]

I need some advice for fighting heavyweights(mainly Ganondorf).

First off, I'm no MK expert, but I've been doing my best to improve and have a fairly reliable win streak. While I have no problem with medium characters(usually) and small characters are just harder to combo, how can I kill heavyweights reliably and leave enough room so one mistake won't cost me the whole match?

 

[Kaffei]

I need some advice for fighting heavyweights(mainly Ganondorf).

First off, I'm no MK expert, but I've been doing my best to improve and have a fairly reliable win streak. While I have no problem with medium characters(usually) and small characters are just harder to combo, how can I kill heavyweights reliably and leave enough room so one mistake won't cost me the whole match?

Most heavy weights don't really have super safe poke tools so a very basic rule of thumb vs them is to threaten their zone with your movement and then try to make them commit. After they whiff you can just get a million damage on them



ALSO DOES ANYONE KNOW IF FTILT 1 > UP B IS A RELIABLE KILL SET UP

 

[Jamurai]

ALSO DOES ANYONE KNOW IF FTILT 1 > UP B IS A RELIABLE KILL SET UP

It is, from about 120%+

Earlier than that and they can shield. They can jump + buffered airdodge out, but if their % is much higher than 120 or MK has rage then it should be guaranteed.

 

[Kaffei]

It is, from about 120%+

Earlier than that and they can shield. They can jump + buffered airdodge out, but if their % is much higher than 120 or MK has rage then it should be guaranteed.

sweeeeeeet I did it on someone today and I got so excited lol

 

[CaptainVul]

Yeah once again I'm not sure if this is asked for a lot and if it is a mod can delete this topic but I just wanted to know if anyone can point me in the right direction to where I can find a guide on the dash attack -> up air -> up b stuff. I tried looking at the guides on the top and unless I glossed over it I didn't see anything talking about it specifically and haven't been able too find a good youtube video on the subject either.

I've been using Meta-Knight for a while, since the 3DS version release and even though I feel like I have a pretty solid Meta-Knight fundamentally I don't really feel like my Meta-Knight is optimal because I don't consistently convert the Up Air strings to Up B. Actually I am fine getting them at the right percents, and carrying them up with the up airs, its just that I don't usually get them all the way to a K.O. I can get them to the top of the blast zone and Up B them but the opponent is usually still alive after that so I'm assuming that I'm doing something wrong and I haven't really been able to find out what that is.

I'm not saying that I never get them because I do sometimes just not consistently, but I probably couldn't tell you the difference between as of why when I do and don't get them other then something like rage being a factor. So hopefully a guide can clear that up for me

Please and thank you

 

[Zeke8877]

me and my friend started playing doubles with meta and robin. any tips?

 

[CaptainVul]

Oh and recently someone told me that the blast zones for FD on the 3DS is different from the ones on the Wii U and I usually practice on the 3DS since I leave my Wii U at home when I'm away at school, so maybe that could be it?

 

[warionumbah2]

Ftilt 1 has the 2nd worst horizontal range of all of MKs grounded sword based move AND its not safe on block. So its not something you wanna go for often if at all.

 

[NegaNixx]

http://smashboards.com/guides/meta-knight-death-combo-tutorial-with-hands-and-kills-sheik-at-29.577/

There ya go. I think this is what you're looking for

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

me and my friend started playing doubles with meta and robin. any tips?

I feel like Robin and Meta Knight aren’t a harmonious team. Mostly because, neither character really wants to be the aggressor. Robin simply can’t perform the role effectively due to the slower movement speed and frame data. And gets juggle rather hard so putting yourself in a situation to be put in the air isn’t good. And if there’s a Meta Knight on a team with a character who has a slower, more predictable recovery, any smart opponent is just going to double team the other character and try to get them off stage. Meta Knight is well suited for bailing Robin out of bad situations but then having to prioritize that, detracts from the things that Meta Knight wants to do in a doubles setting. Both are really meant for support but MK is just much better at it.


In addition, both characters need room. So playing on smaller stages gets problematic. Arcfire is a useful zoning tool that can set up into things, however having lingering hitboxes on the ground often prevents MK from going after the set ups he wants to do.

Lastly, something Meta Knight really looks for in a partner is the ability to set up into his vertical kill options smoothly. Robin doesn’t really perform that task well. I just feel like there are so many better partners for a Meta Knight.