Q&A Meta Knight: Questions & Answers Thread (Don't make or reply to new threads just asking questions)

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
GRimer
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#1
Post here if you just have a simple generic question about Meta Knight.
 

⑨ball

Smash Ace
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#5
Tornado has a pretty good amount of knockback this time around and with some well placed Uair juggles, should be able to net some relatively early kills. Especially on platform stages.

Edit: Looks like DownB has some potential too.


I think our best options right now revolve around learning and abusing the new mechanics until further tech develops:

  • Ledge Stealing -- MK having 5 jumps and the Shuttle Loop is still a thing. Seeing as Bair looks a bit stronger now, as well both that and Fair having vacuum-like properties on hit, gimping may now revolve around waiting for opponents to grab the ledge, stealing it from them, and then going for a Bair into fast fall for a gimp attempt.
  • Lag after air dodges -- In Brawl, air dodging was immediately complained about as it made gimping a lot harder. It even made getting back from the ledge easier as air dodges would cancel in neutral upon landing letting users input anything. This time around, it does no such thing. And with the added mechanic that ledge regrabs lose invincibility, MK may be able to punish attempts to recover on reaction.
 
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ItoI6

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#9
the back hit does 10% instead of 7 and is strong enough to kill at like 130%.

Hitting both ways is nice ofc

charging a backward dsmash is probably his best move to hit someone who regrabs the ledge a 2nd time. I think upb might hit them on the ledge as well but idk
 

Float SSB

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#11
Anyone have any idea how to perform this technique:

(my account is too new so go append this to the end of a youtube URL)

/watch?v=j0_ImjLbR3g#t=3m10


I have seen this particular MK player do this several times. He dash grabs someone, pummels once and they somehow both end up tumbling over the edge and he hits them with a dair. Tried replicating in training on Palutena and couldn't figure it out.

Okay, seems to be a spacing thing. Near the end of the slide the person being held has to be reaching the edge. You will see the 2 characters start to push together. If you pummel at this moment, you will drop them over the edge and you can run off dair.
 
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Float SSB

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#13
I also found that when you do ANY grab release if you are pummelling you will let the person go on the ground, If you aren't pummelling they are thrown into the air. If you mess up the technique and end up holding them over the edge, just keep pummelling and you will release them downward and you can still follow up.
 

ItoI6

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#14
its been known for a long time in brawl that if they grab break in the middle of a pummel it forces a ground release but it isnt true that it forces an air release if you arent pummeling. It will force an air release if ur opponent pressed up or a jump button while being grabbed, its just that almost everyone does that accidentally when mashing out unless they are aware of it. also i really dont like that gimmick tbh it doesnt work if ur opponent knows what theyre doing, especially in this game. id rather just dthrow to fair at low %s or up throw for damage at higher percents if you dash grab at the ledge.
 

Float SSB

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#15
The situation in the video seemed pretty ideal given the scenario. One of MKs weaknesses is his inability to get a kill off grabs at his normal kill percents. In the video he scores a pretty sweet kill that seems hard to react to/avoid so I was just curious about its performance :p

Also, my apologies for not knowing that mechanic. I really didn't play much competitive Brawl.
 

ecaflip

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#16
How does one stave their tornado addiction?
Edit:
Guess I'll foot another question here.
I know MK has an improved punish game, but how do you guys go about capitalizing on it? I'm so used to abusing power house characters or guys with immense super armor (wolf for my aggro style and yoshi for my SA style) that I've kinda forgot how to deal with threats now.
Any tips on combating campy and aggro playstyles? I seem to collapse if I lose in the neutral game and it's a constant uphill battle to regain my momentum. Gone are the days I could just yoshi double jump egg lay reset or scare people off with meaty smashes. I can't believe I'm saying this, I've forgotten how to actively think inside a battle. I really can't deal with threat it seems.
 
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MagiusNecros

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#17
Best way to use Meta Knight is basically to keep moving and keep your opponent guessing what you will do next. And try to let them make the first move. And then quickly punish.

If we could only Cape Warp behind a camper on the edge and not fall off I would be pleased.
 

Shonoun

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#18
His fsmash would be a viable kill move if it didn't have 0.5 seconds of delay at 0 charge. Seriously, impossible to hit.
 

ItoI6

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#21
go to training mode and practice dash attack shuttle loop and dthrow shuttle loop

you have to start the move at a good angle which cant be directly below them

i try to use the version where he shortens and and does it close to his body because its harder for them to fall out i think. in order to combo out of dthrow at higher percents you need to shuttle loop holding away though its easy for them to fall out if you do that version

also try in training mode to roofio dk with dthrow-uairs-shuttle loop start the dthrow at like 40-50%. its hype and will help you practice it

also if you think the shuttle loop combo looks iffy from ur last attack for whatever reason then just jump at them and wait for airdodge. take note of how they reacted and next time act based on that.
 
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Shonoun

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#22
I've heard of people comboing from MK's dthrow, but I haven't seemed to be able to get anything out of dthrows, not even in training mode. In Online games, they just airdodge way before I land an attack, on every single attempt. I've tried doing a shuttle loop followup, a nspec followup, a fair followup, everything. I either can't get to them before they hit the ground, or they airdodge. Any info on how I should be doing this?
 

Karasu

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#23
I've heard of people comboing from MK's dthrow, but I haven't seemed to be able to get anything out of dthrows, not even in training mode. In Online games, they just airdodge way before I land an attack, on every single attempt. I've tried doing a shuttle loop followup, a nspec followup, a fair followup, everything. I either can't get to them before they hit the ground, or they airdodge. Any info on how I should be doing this?
Be faster. There is not much to say about it. To successfully pull off a combo your opponent has to be at the right percentage (I hope this was not your mistake) and you have to react fast. If you hestitate you give your opponent too much time to react.
The only combo that is kind of difficult on the 3DS is the Downthrow -> Fair at low percentage. In this situation you jump too high most of the time. Here you need to short jump to hit it but I usually prefer Downthrow -> Upsmash at low percentage.
Just practice a bit and you will get used to it.
 

Shonoun

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#24
No, once I'd practiced for 5 minutes trying to land anything at varying percents, apparently a combo was dthrow>nair, and it was used at 0-15%. I'd use dthrow on them, sprint and shorthop, and they hit the ground before I can hit them...
 

Karasu

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#25
No, once I'd practiced for 5 minutes trying to land anything at varying percents, apparently a combo was dthrow>nair, and it was used at 0-15%. I'd use dthrow on them, sprint and shorthop, and they hit the ground before I can hit them...
That is not a true combo at that percentage (at least the training mode doesn't register it as true combo) but it can work of course, you just have to be faster. It definitely works between 45%-55%.
Try the Downthrow -> Upsmash combo at 0%. It is way easier and safer.
 

Karasu

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#27
Yeah that is an important combo too but at 0% I prefer Downthrow -> UpSmash. Easier to hit with these controls.
 

Lavani

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#28
At the percents you can do dthrow>usmash you can instead do dthrow>Mach Tornado for significantly more damage.

Stuff you can do off dthrow (all percentages vs ZSS):

dthrow→Mach Tornado......0-40%.......28%
dthrow→nair.....................0-55%.......17%
dthrow→fair......................0-80%.......13%
dthrow→usmash...............0-20%.......16%
dthrow→uair (x1-4)→upB...10-75%.....24-39% (uairs combo best around 35-40%)
dthrow→upB.....................0-135%.....19-22% (depending on grounded vs airborne upB)

Also dthrow→downB works at like, specifically 65%, but there's no reason to go for something so specific lol
 
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-Jax

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#29
At the percents you can do dthrow>usmash you can instead do dthrow>Mach Tornado for significantly more damage.

Stuff you can do off dthrow (all percentages vs ZSS):

dthrow→Mach Tornado......0-40%.......28%
dthrow→nair.....................0-55%.......17%
dthrow→fair......................0-80%.......13%
dthrow→usmash...............0-20%.......16%
dthrow→uair (x1-4)→upB...10-75%.....24-39% (uairs combo best around 35-40%)
dthrow→upB.....................0-135%.....19-22% (depending on grounded vs airborne upB)

Also dthrow→downB works at like, specifically 65%, but there's no reason to go for something so specific lol
Nice overview, I'll go learn this by heart now. :drflip:

I think I'll still prefer dthrow>usmash over tornado, as I've been able to get an upB followup out of the usmash. I'll definitely give the Tornado a try if I'm in one of those moments where I'm not 100% sure about my execution, never really thought of using that out of dthrow.
 

ndayday

stuck on a whole different plaaaanet
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#30
At the percents you can do dthrow>usmash you can instead do dthrow>Mach Tornado for significantly more damage.

Stuff you can do off dthrow (all percentages vs ZSS):

dthrow→Mach Tornado......0-40%.......28%
dthrow→nair.....................0-55%.......17%
dthrow→fair......................0-80%.......13%
dthrow→usmash...............0-20%.......16%
dthrow→uair (x1-4)→upB...10-75%.....24-39% (uairs combo best around 35-40%)
dthrow→upB.....................0-135%.....19-22% (depending on grounded vs airborne upB)

Also dthrow→downB works at like, specifically 65%, but there's no reason to go for something so specific lol
are you sure this is accurate? I'm not sure if rage would be a factor but I tried throw to tornado on zss in a game when she was at 0 and I was at 14 and she jumped before I could touch her with it. she landed into the last few hits of it but I mean...

btw I did practice it in training before on mario so I think I had the timing down.
 
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Lavani

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#31
are you sure this is accurate? I'm not sure if rage would be a factor but I tried throw to tornado on zss in a game when she was at 0 and I was at 14 and she jumped before I could touch her with it. she landed into the last few hits of it but I mean...

btw I did practice it in training before on mario so I think I had the timing down.
All I can tell you for sure is that those numbers hold up against ZSS in training mode. Dthrow>tornado is a pretty tight link so it wouldn't surprise me if it was possible to DI out of.
 

ndayday

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#32
Yeah, I could tell it's kind of hard to get them together optimally so maybe I was a bit off. I never managed the 28% but did get 26 a few times. I'll try again when I get the chance!
 

ItoI6

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#33
if they hold away tornado will never combo from dthrow, and uair wont at the percent where it starts chaining into itself

those percents are really generous lol i would say dthrow shuttle loop starts being iffy at 80% on midweights. the hitstun might be there but im pretty confident they can escape with di
 
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DiggersBoy

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#34
Someone teach me how to walk (Lookin' at you, ItoI)

I find myself dashing and running too much for my own good. While MK's options out of dash is godly compared to everyone else, I often get frustrated when I can't Ftilt or Dtilt on command. I've been practicing a bit, but it's really hard for me to throw away 12 years of casual-play running habits.

How do I train myself to walk around better?

EDIT 12/4/14: Riding on this a bit more, should I just throw out up-b's whenever I can punish? I feel like keeping specials fresh is good, but ItoI's doin' pretty well throwing out up-b's everywhere.
 
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ItoI6

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#35
If you know for a fact that upb oos is the only way you can punish (it cleanly beats bouncing fish before it hits your shield btw because of the disjoint) then absolutely use it. People who say you need to keep your kill moves fresh are just full of ****. Let say that they are at 90% and you land an upb oos when it was your only move that couldve landed you the punish. Let say theyre at 105%. Lets look at the pros and cons here.

+ every one of your moves except upb hit stronger than before and are now closer to being able to kill
+ an upb with 1 more stale move in the 10 move queue and at 105% is still killing slightly earlier than it not being in the queue and being at 90%.
+ a different move is now out of the queue and can kill earlier.
- upb will kill slightly later than before
- you needed to guess correctly on an all or nothing move basically

its just totally pointless not to use it if you know it will connect.

as for walking better idk. its just moving where you want to go lol. I guess try dash shield up to someone, and then sort of slowly inch backward in your walk. It baits things out pretty well. inching forward or backward and then going at his full walkspeed feels like its kind of unexpected. And tbh just dashing around everywhere isnt really bad for metaknight when you can just cancel it with shield at basically any time. either that or short hop backward. A good approach i like to do is fullhop dair over their body and either land behind them into a grab, or be sort of ambiguous of what side of them Im going to land on after dair and just tornadoing when i get down. You can fullhop dair defensively if you think someone is going to grab you shield or theyve baited it out or something. idk its not really something they can punish even if they know its coming so its pretty great. oh and also oos ftilt is a really great move, i know the first hitbox of ftilt is fraud lol but the last two hits are legitimate and they honestly have pretty good range, especially the last hit.

im gonna make a matchup thread in a bit i think ill have some nice stuff posted about some important matchups.
 

DiggersBoy

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#36
If you know for a fact that upb oos is the only way you can punish (it cleanly beats bouncing fish before it hits your shield btw because of the disjoint) then absolutely use it. People who say you need to keep your kill moves fresh are just full of ****. Let say that they are at 90% and you land an upb oos when it was your only move that couldve landed you the punish. Let say theyre at 105%. Lets look at the pros and cons here.

+ every one of your moves except upb hit stronger than before and are now closer to being able to kill
+ an upb with 1 more stale move in the 10 move queue and at 105% is still killing slightly earlier than it not being in the queue and being at 90%.
+ a different move is now out of the queue and can kill earlier.
- upb will kill slightly later than before
- you needed to guess correctly on an all or nothing move basically

its just totally pointless not to use it if you know it will connect.

as for walking better idk. its just moving where you want to go lol. I guess try dash shield up to someone, and then sort of slowly inch backward in your walk. It baits things out pretty well. inching forward or backward and then going at his full walkspeed feels like its kind of unexpected. And tbh just dashing around everywhere isnt really bad for metaknight when you can just cancel it with shield at basically any time. either that or short hop backward. A good approach i like to do is fullhop dair over their body and either land behind them into a grab, or be sort of ambiguous of what side of them Im going to land on after dair and just tornadoing when i get down. You can fullhop dair defensively if you think someone is going to grab you shield or theyve baited it out or something. idk its not really something they can punish even if they know its coming so its pretty great. oh and also oos ftilt is a really great move, i know the first hitbox of ftilt is fraud lol but the last two hits are legitimate and they honestly have pretty good range, especially the last hit.

im gonna make a matchup thread in a bit i think ill have some nice stuff posted about some important matchups.
Aight, thanks. Will hit the lab and try this out.

As for the matchup thread, go for it. I would've done it, but I have absolutlely no tournament experience outside of VGC so I didn't feel as though I was a right canidate to lead very big competitive discussions.

However, when making your guide, make it look neat-ish, please. If it's something as important as matchups, I personally don't want it to be a massive dump like,

MK is good. rosalina matchups are kinda wonky, you gotta stop her nair somehow idk
 

ItoI6

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#37
Aight, thanks. Will hit the lab and try this out.

As for the matchup thread, go for it. I would've done it, but I have absolutlely no tournament experience outside of VGC so I didn't feel as though I was a right canidate to lead very big competitive discussions.

However, when making your guide, make it look neat-ish, please. If it's something as important as matchups, I personally don't want it to be a massive dump like,

MK is good. rosalina matchups are kinda wonky, you gotta stop her nair somehow idk
lool you know me too well

its ok i got this son

i think that i wont really be talking too much about each character. his gameplan shouldnt drastically change depending on the character hes fighting i think. and if youve gone over 3 paragraphs in talking about one guy its just instant fail imo lol. itll be like "zss will often use multiple neutral bs in a row, and it just has enough lag if you can guess at the right time you can get a down b pretty easily" (ill explain a bit more later)
 

David Galanos

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#38
I really like Meta Knight but I get my butt handed to me when I play him. Should I try to keep using him or just give up now and not waste my time. I feel like it's a bit late for me to start using a character like him who I'm sure takes a lot of practice
 

MagiusNecros

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#39
I really like Meta Knight but I get my butt handed to me when I play him. Should I try to keep using him or just give up now and not waste my time. I feel like it's a bit late for me to start using a character like him who I'm sure takes a lot of practice
I keep using him because I just look at why was I hit and what should I do to avoid that. If you like the character then stick with it.
 

DiggersBoy

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#40
I really like Meta Knight but I get my butt handed to me when I play him. Should I try to keep using him or just give up now and not waste my time. I feel like it's a bit late for me to start using a character like him who I'm sure takes a lot of practice
Bro, just play whoever feels natural. With the endless amount of diversity in Smash, you shouldn't have to make a hard decision about who you want to play. If you have doubts on whether or not you should play a character, drop him. I used to play Palutena, but I always had doubts on her damage and lag. So, I dropped her for Meta Knight. Meta Knight just generally felt better to me, so I began to main him.
 
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