Meta Knight Data Thread & Beginner's Guide - Current News: Hey, I'm Back!

[DiggersBoy]

Seeing how there is no real official threads for Meta Knight players to talk about their current findings and data, as well as it being hard for many new players to get into maining Meta Knight due to the lack of accessible data, I've taken it upon myself to make a Data Thread for us Meta Knight players to discuss on. As of the start of this thread, I've taken the liberty of putting other people's important findings on here already, but if you have another finding with either A) Video Evidence or B) A couple of people to confirm, then I'll edit it into this thread. This thread's small little guide is meant for players with a bit of Smash experience: We will not teach you how to fastfall, tomahawk, or use your final smash (shoutouts to http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2gbctz/hi_what_button_do_i_press_for_the_final_smash_in/)

- For all the people looking into picking up Meta Knight, either as a main, a secondary, or even a nice little pocket, welcome to the Sm4sh Meta Knight subforum. It's been somewhat like an apocalypse here, with a lot of interested fans leaving in favor of other characters, such as Rosalina (Although I can somewhat relate, I left Palutena to come here), as well as many people dropping him after seeing the infamous range nerfs that has pretty much gone viral in the short time that the game has been out, causing a lot of people to assume that Meta Knight is incredibly bad. In addition, many players just getting into the competitive scene immediately drop Meta Knight, assuming he's still OP after hearing of the many Meta Knight bans at Brawl tournaments (Can confirm, a couple of people think that at my school).
- HOWEVER. Meta Knight is not bad, yet the general consensus is that he's not top-tier, either. In fact, he's somewhere in between. While his range nerfs do exist, you just have to deal with it. One tip that I personally like to give is to stick close to the target when attacking. Meta Knight already has the range and spacing of a stick, so why would you want to stay far away from them while attacking, if they can still hit you either way?
- I think the general consensus of the community is that Meta Knight relies highly on a "bait and punish" tactic. You play very passive and wait for the opponent to mess up, before jumping on that opportunity and beating the **** out of them, then retreating to start over again.

- MK is clearly lacking power and range. I feel that the strongest way to play him is methodically aggressive. By this I mean that we should play very conservatively on stage and punish hard when given the opportunity.

- Pretty much your whole moveset is garnered toward punishing. Throws are Meta Knight's main source of damage (Check out ItoI6's Throw guide, a little bit below!), and while the tornado (Neutral-B) doesn't have any vacuum properties or priority anymore, it does a bunch of damage (20% if mashed all the way) and has a little bit of knockback to ensure that you can recover and safely return to a neutral game.
- Main kill moves include gimping, Up-B and Down-B. Other moves can be used to kill, but generally are not as reliable (i.e. Forwardsmash)
EDIT 11/18/14: With patch 1.04, new kill moves have arrived in Bair and Nair.

Now, for the current data as of November 2014.

Data Charts:

EDIT 11/19/14: Data Charts are up! Thank you, Claxus!

Attack | Damage | Max Total
Jab | 1% per hit, 2% finisher | 7% (Single tap)
F-tilt | 2%, 2%, 3% | 7%
U-tilt | 5% | 5%
D-tilt | 5% | 5%

N-air | 7%, 10% sweetspotted | 10%
F-air | 2%, 2%, 3% | 7%
B-air | 2%, 1%, 4% | 7%
U-air | 5% | 5%
D-air | 6% | 6%

F-smash | 16% | 16%
U-smash | 3%, 2%, 4% | 9%
D-smash | 7% front hit, 10% back hit| 10% F-throw | 6%, 3% | 9%
B-throw | 7%, 3% | 10%
U-throw | 10% | 10%
D-throw | 0.5% x 10, 2%| 7%

Neutral-B | 1% x (6-18), random 2%s(?), 3% finisher | 22%
Side-B | 1% x 8, 3% finisher | 11%
Up-B | 6% / 9% sweetspotted, 6% | 15%
Down-B (Neutral) | 15% / 16% sweetspotted | 16%
Down-B (Back) | 14% | 14%
Down-B (Forward) | 16% | 16%

Dash attack | 5% / 6% sweetspotted| 6%
Ledge attack | 7% | 7%
Get-up attack | 7% (both sides) | 7%

Final Smash | 40% | 40%

-Notes: Dtilt can trip enemies. Not sure on percentages, and the range is nerfed pretty hard, but keep that in mind when spacing to establish neutral game. Will put this into an actual data chart when it comes up.

Other information:

Key KO move averages (tested on Marth, Omega stage):
Center stage / Near edge
F-smash: 100% / 80%
U-smash: 130%
D-smash (back hit): 150% / 120%

N-air: 160% / 130%
B-air: 145% / 120%

Up-B: Can start KOing used from about fullhop height around 105%
Neutral-B: Started at fullhop, around 130%
Side-B: Started near the edge, can KO around 145%
Down-B: Non-backwards versions can KO at 115%, 100% near the edge. Sweetspot the neutral version.

And some move tidbits:
F-smash has a sweetspot close to Meta Knight. Does the same damage but tippers have less knockback.

D-tilt has a chance to trip, works up to 59%.

Up-B has a sweetspot point blank to Meta Knight which will do extra damage, and a bit more knockback.

Down-B neutral slash has a sweetspot, hitting enemies from above. Sourspotted its knockback requires 15%~ more to KO.

Dash attack sweetspots during the start of the animation. If sourspotted, it will do less damage but launches directly upwards.

Advanced Tech/Other Neat Findings:

- This exists. Creds to Ambrose/My Smash Corner for the find. Can confirm, have done this before. This is because Meta Knight's second-to-last hit of the fair is a spike, so if you fast fall and miss the last hit, you will spike them to the ground.

EDIT 11/18/14: Since the 1.04 patch, Fair no longer spikes. Bair still spikes, but it's quite hard to combo that into Downtilt. However, you can still combo a Bair spike into a Sidesmash. ItoI6 has also brought to attention that the person hit by the spike can immediately attack after hitting the ground, making this quite situational.

- ⑨ball has stated that Tornado and Down-B auto cancel. No real confirmation on this yet, but if anyone can confirm, please tell me.

Yeah, both tornado and downB auto cancel. Tornado auto cancels from about triple jump height and DownB is about full jump height. I usually just hold diagonal up back and fast fall when I come out and it works pretty easy. Trying to get it at other distances for approaches and generally unpredictable movement.

Looking at the animations for both it might be connected to the way MK lands from his recovery animation meaning we might also find an autocancel angle for sideB. If I find one I'll update.

EDIT 11/20/14: Claxus and sxiz have confirmed that Tornado and Down-B auto cancel. sxiz elaborates on this:

I can confirm tornado and cape auto-cancel when you hit the ground during the aerial ending animation. The aerial ending will then be interrupted and you'll go through the grounded ending. The sooner you interrupt the aerial ending, the longer you'll spend in the grounded ending. It seems there was a similar (if not identical) mechanic for tornado in Brawl:
Sounds like the same thing is happening here, with the cape this time too. I put up a video showing what happens at various heights, along with the helpless landings I was using for comparison.

The cool part is if you land right as the aerial ending animation finishes, you'll suffer at most one frame of landing lag, and there might be a way to get no lag at all. For cape (assuming you fall straight down and don't fastfall) this happens if you reappear without attacking at about full jump height from the ground. If you do attack, it's a little higher, about the height of MK's double jump. For tornado, it happens when you come out of it around the height of MK's double or triple jump.

Ending a tornado right above the ground results in a grounded ending of 12 frames in the video, which is 30 FPS, so I'll estimate that the one I did was 24 on the 3DS. This is in line with the above data from Brawl, which has aerial tornado's cooldown at 29 frames, so until someone cracks this game open I'm going to assume it's always that way and grounded endlag fills in any gap left behind by interrupted aerial endlag. For comparison, landing in helpless was 12 frames in my video.

I didn't get a no-attack cape right above the ground, but the interval from aerial reappearance to the end of the grounded animation is ~14 frames (so, ~28 frames). This is close to the Brawl data of 27 frames, so that's the number I'm going with.

For a cape with attack, I can't tell when the hitbox goes away and the cooldown officially begins, but he starts putting his sword away about 15 (30) frames before the ground ending is over. It's probably a little higher than that, if the additional autocancel height is any indication.

Drill Rush, as it turns out, has almost no actual endlag in the air. I couldn't get it to auto-cancel. I would either be so close to the ground that I triggered the grounded ending, or too high up to land before going into helpless. It's not very practical, if it's even possible at all.

Shuttle Loop is the same way, only worse. You'd have to start the move at a lower altitude than the ground you're going to land on. But the ending is so short that even the middle platform on Battlefield is too close to the ground for a grounded Shuttle Loop to put you in the right spot, and you'd hit the ledge if you tried to come up from offstage and drift over to land. Also, passing through platforms seems to dramatically increase its height? Is this new?

- There are 3 visual angles at which Meta Knight attacks with his down-b, Dimensional Cape. In this link you can see that he has a Neutral slash, a Retreating slash, and a Reverse slash. Lavani has helped me out and has said this:

The stationary slash does 15% and KOs Mario around 125%
The retreating slash does 14% and KOs Mario around 130%
The advancing/reverse slash does 16% and KOs Mario around 115%
(percents from center of FD)

As far as I can tell the launch angle does seem the same between all three versions, so if there's any differences I'd imagine it's in hitboxes or end lag, which I'm rather curious about personally because the reversed slash seems like the only one you'd ever want to use otherwise. Also worth noting that since you can move in multiple directions during Dimensional Cape, you can move back then forward to do a reversed slash on the spot.

EDIT: While attempting to compare the hitboxes between slashes I found a 16% hitbox on the stationary slash that KOs at 117%, seems to be around MK's feet, or maybe his center? I guess there's more to these variations after all.

And then Claxus elaborates a little on the Reverse slash:

Haven't found much use to the different versions the past few days... His strongest (reverse) slash already has a hitbox that seems to hit all around him and KOs the best. It also has the best range. Seems kinda weird that the other versions are there but don't really change much except being weaker in power and range. The neutral one is alright, but needs that awkward sweetspot.

I love to find niches for moves like this, but I dunno... Feels like their niche was making me wonder why I wasn't KOing sometimes. Now I know to go for the reverse version always...

Seems like the general consensus is that Reverse slash is the strongest. However, it leaves you quite open, and close to them as well.

EDIT 11/19/14: Meta Knight's Neutral Slash confirmed to have a sweetspot. It does 16%, and kills as well as the Reverse Slash. However, both slash in different directions, so you need to do the slash that launches towards the nearest blast zone. Retreating Slash still confirmed useless compared to the others. Also, I didn't say this before, but the Slash is determined by what direction you're pressing right before Meta Knight appears. If you try to do a Reverse Slash, but return the Circle Pad/Control Stick back to neutral before Meta Knight appears, you will do a Neutral Slash.

EDIT 11/21/14: Katakiri has evidence that Meta Knight's Upair and Downair have their range indicators shorter to match their actual hitboxes. The other attacks remain the same, however.

So I wasn't crazy. I did some testing with one 3DS on 1.0.4 and the other on 1.0.3. I found that both Meta Knight's Down-Air and Up-Air have changed but it's not as exciting as I thought it would be.

D-Air & Up-Air's Sword-trails are now shorter to match their actual reach. F-Air, F-Tilt, & D-Smash still have their slightly deceptive sword trails. Even then, F-Air almost isn't even worth mentioning because the sword-trail is only very slightly inaccurate and F-Tilt isn't even a spacing tool so, if D-Smash gets fixed, MK will literally look good.

So no new hitboxes, just honest sword-trails. It really does make a big difference though. A lot less whiffed D-Airs or ruined Up-Air chains.

EDIT 12/1/14: Lavani has added onto Katakiri's post, saying that the hitboxes of the Uair and Dair have been changed a little bit, as well.

Adding to the uair/dair changes, the hitboxes were also changed along with the visuals. uair's hitboxes were shifted upward, while dair's were shifted downward and back, more accurately matching the animation.

Since @Katakiri made a convenient image and I'm really bored, I made a (really) rough approximation:

Custom Moves??? (Updated 3/4/15):

While there is a thread corresponding to this question (Thanks, AmazingAmpharos!), I'd thought that I could touch up on it here, with EVO now accepting custom moves and all.

The majority rule on MK's customs are that 1111 is not trash, but there's only a few good options to change on him.

- All of Meta Knight's Dimensional Capes suck except for the default (Although, if you can find a good use for them, show us!)
- Meta Knight's default Shuttle Loop is the most consistent, but Blade Coaster (2) might be an option, as shown here.
- Meta Knight's default Mach Tornado is pretty good, but I've currently started to use his Entangling Tornado (2), and I've been loving it as a strong kill option.
- Meta Knight's Side-B can be changed accordingly. While default is pretty good, High-Speed Drill (2) is great as a quick, horizontal recovery option, and Giga Drill Breaker (3) is great to punish shields.

That's all I currently have.

Now, a few questions:

1) How do you play your Meta Knight? How does it perform different than other people's Meta Knights?
2) What Useful Info have you found with Meta Knight? Do you mind sharing? Even if it's a well known find, we could still use the help. Just... no "omg Meta Knight is actually good", because we know that. That's why we're here.
3) Any new findings on custom moves?

 

[ItoI6]

At first I thought the way mk should be played is jumping around the opponent to bait stuff and go in with dash grabs and tornado punishes, but honestly it feels like that just doesn't work if your opponent is patient and goes in with uairs at the right time because mks dair range sucks and cant cover him well. They can also just run under you and reset the situation for free and theres not really much you can do about it as well. Metaknight's platform camping is incredible as ever though, seriously if he has a lead its super hard to catch him if he's smart when jumping between platforms.

But anyway the way I like to play is just being patient and walking back and forth, and mixing in dash shielding to force a reaction that mk can punish with oos ftilt and upb. Ftilt to dash under and shield at like 0-50% basically forces them to give up their double jump and i find the ability to get more damage from a juggle against someone with no jump far more reliable than a dtilt at low percents hoping they trip. upb also has huge ass range if you hold forward before after you activate the move, and can punish things that are actually pretty far away. Being on point with oos punishes is hugely important for mk's game, so if you can't do it consistently I'd recommend going to training and buffering ftilt in the end lag of shield drop to get a feel for it. Also you need to have tap jump on in order to do oos upb i think, or else you have to press a jump button+upb in order to activate it which is slower than just doing it regularly with tap jump on.

As far as approaching goes, mk has a completely safe approach if you dash attack so that the beginning of the hitbox activates as you pass the other side of their body. If it hits shield it will push them in the opposite direction that you end up, and if it hits them the angle will fling them directly above you so that you can follow up with utilt/uair/upb. Dtilt is also pretty safe if spaced but you get like no reward from it without luck and you are negative on hit at like 0-20% without a trip so I don't really like the move. I think dash shielding threatening oos moves, walkup filt, dash attack, grab, and fade away fair are good enough to be able to get in on anyone.

random thoughts:
- i see some people think bair is better than fair but tbh im not really seeing it. Bair is at most 1-2 frames faster than fair, has far worse end lag if you dont land into the ground, and traps people in a different way than fair that makes people fall out of the move far more easily.
- you need to be able to juggle people well to get the most out of mk. a lot of people think juggling is just jumping at the opponent and using an attack but its really a lot more nuanced then that. Try getting under people and shielding which covers attacks and airdodge, train people to fear shuttle loop to bait airdodges, and uairing with the right timing and spacing while falling to the ground to catch people as soon as they land while they are in air dodge lag. I think mks greatest strength is that he juggles the **** out of everyone but hes never really in a bad position himself because his movement is just really good.
- you know i really wouldnt have a problem with that fair-dtilt lock thing if there was no drawback to it, like even if they could escape and neither side gets hurt if they hold away or something itd be ok but the truth is its worse than that. You will literally get punished on hit for doing this vs someone who knows what theyre doing lol, its just bad.
- one thing i would like to know about mks dtilt at high percents is if your opponent can jump out of it before they slam into the ground, and also if they can jump out if they hold up before being hit. I'd consider it a lot better if it genuinely forced a tech chase when you land the move but i havent tested with another person if the opponent can just jump.
- mk can tornado just a bit below the ledge vs sheik and it will catch her because she actually isnt invincible before her 2nd hitbox appears. Her first explosion needs to be far enough away that you arent hit though so this really only works if shes deep offstage. Make sure to mash ur ass off though so you dont sd lol

 

[Claxus]

SSSweet topic, Meta Knight finally has a foundation. Kinda ironic how desolate it is here now, but I'm glad true Meta Knight fans can be told apart now.

Anyway, I have the damage table basically done. I listed the damage of every hit, and then the max total, which is a bit redundant for several attacks, but I thought it'd be useful since a lot of Meta Knight's attacks are multihit. But what do you have in mind for data charts? Since you said you'd fit in the D-tilt tidbit in a chart. Maybe just a separate listing for notable information and average KO percents?

About the F-air spike, B-air works identically for it. And if it works, it can hit confirm into F-smash. However, it was mentioned the enemy has time to react by attacking in the air before they splat...

Mach Tornado can hit 18 times for up to 22%, but it requires insane mashing skills or something. It's basically impossible to make it consistently do more than 16%, the mash detect is pretty weird... And it also has a weird pattern for damage I can't really decipher of 1s and occasional 2s.

Meta Knight also has that grab thing where he pummels them while sliding off stage with them... I'm not sure how it works though, can't do it consistently.

I can confirm the tornado and cape auto cancel. Cape cancels if you use it upwards, and press down at the last split second, or just use it horizontally at fullhop height. Tornado cancels at about a fullhop, then lightly mash it to spin in place. Both can auto cancel at the right height however you use them, that's just to get an idea.

And perhaps we can also compile some combos for the data section?

Answer time
1.) I play safe, but not so much conservative bait and punish, but attack and punish. I go on the offensive a lot with jumping D-airs. His other aerials are unsafe on shield, but D-air is an awesome safe pressure attack. Lots of F-tilts and D-tilts when in range on the ground. I use his specials sparingly, Mach Tornado for damage, Drill Rush for unexpected approaches and it pierced through a LOT of projectiles. Dash attack and grabs are key to get the enemy airborne where Meta Knight shines. U-air juggle when I can, or just get them off stage to chase. In a nutshell, an offensive but refined style that tries to make opponents feel pressured and bait mistakes, using a lot of safe pokes until they're airborne or punishable and I make momentum.

2.) Well, I think I've covered this.

3.) Definitely should keep things up to speed here. Already an awesome resource for Meta Knight meta... And the only structure for him.

That's a lot of stuff... I'll send the chart when I can during the afternoon, and some info/tips/combos for moves.

 

[ndayday]

Did you get the damage data from a regular match and not training? If you are then good, it's better to have data with unstaled bonus multiplier imo.

also mach tornado is not too hard to get 22% out of. But then again I've been playing Bayonetta heh heh heh.
And the pummel thing works by dash grabbing them near the ledge and pummeling when you reach it. half the time I forget I'm doing it so I can't get the aerial, but if it really catches them off guard you can even manage bair or fair. Don't count on it though.

 

[Claxus]

I dunno about the tornado, I'm a pure action gamer and have an easy time mashing. The infamous Metal Gear Solid mashing segments were a cakewalk to me. But here it seems pretty random at times no matter how fast I do it, even if I go full rage with it.

About the damages, I just went with Training because it's so much easier, especially with that play-by-play function for all of his multi-hit moves. But come to think of it, do you think decimals are important, too? I noticed B-air does 7.5 I believe. Hitting with two in a row ("7%" each) in training totals to 15%. I've never done damage recording before honestly. I can try to work on a chart that takes variables into account, or leave it to someone who's more experienced for it, I just figured it'd be nice to have a starting point to go with the topic so players can see how his general attack damage is.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Did you get the damage data from a regular match and not training? If you are then good, it's better to have data with unstaled bonus multiplier imo.

Training mode is fine. Fresh move only puts a 1.05x multiplier on the damage and knockback, so that really only calculates to a percent (Or, in the case of Meta Knight, maybe even less)

Anyway, I have the damage table basically done. I listed the damage of every hit, and then the max total, which is a bit redundant for several attacks, but I thought it'd be useful since a lot of Meta Knight's attacks are multihit. But what do you have in mind for data charts? Since you said you'd fit in the D-tilt tidbit in a chart. Maybe just a separate listing for notable information and average KO percents?

Make sure to calculate for the new 1.04 patch changes, please. Otherwise, thank you so much!

 

[Claxus]

Here's the thing.

Spoiler

[table=head]
Attack | Damage | Max Total
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Jab[/B][/COLOR] | 1% per hit, 2% finisher | 7% (Single tap)
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]F-tilt[/B][/COLOR] | 2%, 2%, 3% | 7%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]U-tilt[/B][/COLOR] | 5% | 5%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]D-tilt[/B][/COLOR] | 5% | 5%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]N-air[/B][/COLOR] | 7%, 10% sweetspotted | 10%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]F-air[/B][/COLOR] | 2%, 2%, 3% | 7%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]B-air[/B][/COLOR] | 2%, 1%, 4% | 7%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]U-air[/B][/COLOR] | 5% | 5%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]D-air[/B][/COLOR] | 6% | 6%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]F-smash[/B][/COLOR] | 16% | 16%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]U-smash[/B][/COLOR] | 3%, 2%, 4% | 9%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]D-smash[/B][/COLOR] | 7% front hit, 10% back hit|[B] [/B]10%[B][/B]

[B][COLOR=#ffffff]F-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 6%, 3% | 9%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]B-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 7%, 3% | 10%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]U-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 10% | 10%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]D-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 0.5% x 10, 2%| 7%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Neutral-B[/B][/COLOR] | 1% x (6-18), random 2%s(?), 3% finisher  | 22%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Side-B[/B][/COLOR] | 1% x 8, 3% finisher  | 11%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Up-B[/B][/COLOR] | 6% / 9% sweetspotted, 6% | 15%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Down-B[/COLOR][/B] (Neutral) | 15% / 16% sweetspotted | 16%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Down-B[/COLOR][/B] (Back) | 14% | 14%
[B]Down-B[/B] (Forward) | 16% | 16%

[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Dash attack[/COLOR][/B] | 5% / 6% sweetspotted| 6%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Ledge attack[/COLOR][/B] | 7% | 7%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Get-up attack[/COLOR][/B] | 7% (both sides) | 7%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Final Smash[/B][/COLOR] | 40% | 40%
[/table]

And other information:

Key KO move averages (tested on Marth, Omega stage):
Center stage / Near edge
F-smash: 100% / 80%
U-smash: 130%
D-smash (back hit): 150% / 120%

N-air: 160% / 130%
B-air: 145% / 120%

Up-B: Can start KOing used from about fullhop height around 105%
Neutral-B: Started at fullhop, around 130%
Side-B: Started near the edge, can KO around 145%
Down-B: Non-backwards versions can KO at 115%, 100% near the edge. Sweetspot the neutral version.


And some move tidbits:
F-smash has a sweetspot close to Meta Knight. Does the same damage but tippers have less knockback.

D-tilt has a chance to trip, works up to 59%.

Up-B has a sweetspot point blank to Meta Knight which will do extra damage, and a bit more knockback.

Down-B neutral slash has a sweetspot, hitting enemies from above. Sourspotted its knockback requires 15%~ more to KO.

Dash attack sweetspots during the start of the animation. If sourspotted, it will do less damage but launches directly upwards.

Happy end.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Here's the thing.

Spoiler

[table=head]
Attack | Damage | Max Total
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Jab[/B][/COLOR] | 1% per hit, 2% finisher | 7% (Single tap)
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]F-tilt[/B][/COLOR] | 2%, 2%, 3% | 7%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]U-tilt[/B][/COLOR] | 5% | 5%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]D-tilt[/B][/COLOR] | 5% | 5%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]N-air[/B][/COLOR] | 7%, 10% sweetspotted | 10%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]F-air[/B][/COLOR] | 2%, 2%, 3% | 7%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]B-air[/B][/COLOR] | 2%, 1%, 4% | 7%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]U-air[/B][/COLOR] | 5% | 5%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]D-air[/B][/COLOR] | 6% | 6%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]F-smash[/B][/COLOR] | 16% | 16%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]U-smash[/B][/COLOR] | 3%, 2%, 4% | 9%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]D-smash[/B][/COLOR] | 7% front hit, 10% back hit|[B] [/B]10%[B][/B]

[B][COLOR=#ffffff]F-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 6%, 3% | 9%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]B-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 7%, 3% | 10%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]U-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 10% | 10%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]D-throw[/COLOR][/B] | 0.5% x 10, 2%| 7%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Neutral-B[/B][/COLOR] | 1% x (6-18), random 2%s(?), 3% finisher  | 22%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Side-B[/B][/COLOR] | 1% x 8, 3% finisher  | 11%
[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Up-B[/B][/COLOR] | 6% / 9% sweetspotted, 6% | 15%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Down-B[/COLOR][/B] (Neutral) | 15% / 16% sweetspotted | 16%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Down-B[/COLOR][/B] (Back) | 14% | 14%
[B]Down-B[/B] (Forward) | 16% | 16%

[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Dash attack[/COLOR][/B] | 5% / 6% sweetspotted| 6%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Ledge attack[/COLOR][/B] | 7% | 7%
[B][COLOR=#ffffff]Get-up attack[/COLOR][/B] | 7% (both sides) | 7%

[COLOR=#ffffff][B]Final Smash[/B][/COLOR] | 40% | 40%
[/table]

And other information:

Key KO move averages (tested on Marth, Omega stage):
Center stage / Near edge
F-smash: 100% / 80%
U-smash: 130%
D-smash (back hit): 150% / 120%

N-air: 160% / 130%
B-air: 145% / 120%

Up-B: Can start KOing used from about fullhop height around 105%
Neutral-B: Started at fullhop, around 130%
Side-B: Started near the edge, can KO around 145%
Down-B: Non-backwards versions can KO at 115%, 100% near the edge. Sweetspot the neutral version.


And some move tidbits:
F-smash has a sweetspot close to Meta Knight. Does the same damage but tippers have less knockback.

D-tilt has a chance to trip, works up to 59%.

Up-B has a sweetspot point blank to Meta Knight which will do extra damage, and a bit more knockback.

Down-B neutral slash has a sweetspot, hitting enemies from above. Sourspotted its knockback requires 15%~ more to KO.

Dash attack sweetspots during the start of the animation. If sourspotted, it will do less damage but launches directly upwards.

Happy end.

Added. Thanks!

 

[sxiz]

I can confirm tornado and cape auto-cancel when you hit the ground during the aerial ending animation. The aerial ending will then be interrupted and you'll go through the grounded ending. The sooner you interrupt the aerial ending, the longer you'll spend in the grounded ending. It seems there was a similar (if not identical) mechanic for tornado in Brawl:

cooldown: this is interesting. Cooldown will ALWAYS be 29 frames. Landing lag adjusts to this. So if your nado ends in midair and you free fall for 10 frames your landing lag will be 19 frames. The botched up landing is 30 frames.

Sounds like the same thing is happening here, with the cape this time too. I put up a video showing what happens at various heights, along with the helpless landings I was using for comparison.

The cool part is if you land right as the aerial ending animation finishes, you'll suffer at most one frame of landing lag, and there might be a way to get no lag at all. For cape (assuming you fall straight down and don't fastfall) this happens if you reappear without attacking at about full jump height from the ground. If you do attack, it's a little higher, about the height of MK's double jump. For tornado, it happens when you come out of it around the height of MK's double or triple jump.

Spoiler: Frame details

Ending a tornado right above the ground results in a grounded ending of 12 frames in the video, which is 30 FPS, so I'll estimate that the one I did was 24 on the 3DS. This is in line with the above data from Brawl, which has aerial tornado's cooldown at 29 frames, so until someone cracks this game open I'm going to assume it's always that way and grounded endlag fills in any gap left behind by interrupted aerial endlag. For comparison, landing in helpless was 12 frames in my video.

I didn't get a no-attack cape right above the ground, but the interval from aerial reappearance to the end of the grounded animation is ~14 frames (so, ~28 frames). This is close to the Brawl data of 27 frames, so that's the number I'm going with.

For a cape with attack, I can't tell when the hitbox goes away and the cooldown officially begins, but he starts putting his sword away about 15 (30) frames before the ground ending is over. It's probably a little higher than that, if the additional autocancel height is any indication.

Drill Rush, as it turns out, has almost no actual endlag in the air. I couldn't get it to auto-cancel. I would either be so close to the ground that I triggered the grounded ending, or too high up to land before going into helpless. It's not very practical, if it's even possible at all.

Shuttle Loop is the same way, only worse. You'd have to start the move at a lower altitude than the ground you're going to land on. But the ending is so short that even the middle platform on Battlefield is too close to the ground for a grounded Shuttle Loop to put you in the right spot, and you'd hit the ledge if you tried to come up from offstage and drift over to land. Also, passing through platforms seems to dramatically increase its height? Is this new?

 

[DiggersBoy]

I can confirm tornado and cape auto-cancel when you hit the ground during the aerial ending animation. The aerial ending will then be interrupted and you'll go through the grounded ending. The sooner you interrupt the aerial ending, the longer you'll spend in the grounded ending. It seems there was a similar (if not identical) mechanic for tornado in Brawl:
Sounds like the same thing is happening here, with the cape this time too. I put up a video showing what happens at various heights, along with the helpless landings I was using for comparison.

The cool part is if you land right as the aerial ending animation finishes, you'll suffer at most one frame of landing lag, and there might be a way to get no lag at all. For cape (assuming you fall straight down and don't fastfall) this happens if you reappear without attacking at about full jump height from the ground. If you do attack, it's a little higher, about the height of MK's double jump. For tornado, it happens when you come out of it around the height of MK's double or triple jump.

Spoiler: Frame details

Ending a tornado right above the ground results in a grounded ending of 12 frames in the video, which is 30 FPS, so I'll estimate that the one I did was 24 on the 3DS. This is in line with the above data from Brawl, which has aerial tornado's cooldown at 29 frames, so until someone cracks this game open I'm going to assume it's always that way and grounded endlag fills in any gap left behind by interrupted aerial endlag. For comparison, landing in helpless was 12 frames in my video.

I didn't get a no-attack cape right above the ground, but the interval from aerial reappearance to the end of the grounded animation is ~14 frames (so, ~28 frames). This is close to the Brawl data of 27 frames, so that's the number I'm going with.

For a cape with attack, I can't tell when the hitbox goes away and the cooldown officially begins, but he starts putting his sword away about 15 (30) frames before the ground ending is over. It's probably a little higher than that, if the additional autocancel height is any indication.

Drill Rush, as it turns out, has almost no actual endlag in the air. I couldn't get it to auto-cancel. I would either be so close to the ground that I triggered the grounded ending, or too high up to land before going into helpless. It's not very practical, if it's even possible at all.

Shuttle Loop is the same way, only worse. You'd have to start the move at a lower altitude than the ground you're going to land on. But the ending is so short that even the middle platform on Battlefield is too close to the ground for a grounded Shuttle Loop to put you in the right spot, and you'd hit the ledge if you tried to come up from offstage and drift over to land. Also, passing through platforms seems to dramatically increase its height? Is this new?

Aight, thanks. I'll add that in later.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Edited! New edits: The change to the range indicators of Downair and Upair. Shoutouts to Katakiri!

 

[Lavani]

Adding to the uair/dair changes, the hitboxes were also changed along with the visuals. uair's hitboxes were shifted upward, while dair's were shifted downward and back, more accurately matching the animation.

Since @Katakiri made a convenient image and I'm really bored, I made a (really) rough approximation:

 

[DiggersBoy]

Aight, sorry. Was busy with vacations and stuffs. Thanks Lavani, will update this in as well.

EDIT 12/1/14: Updated the original post.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Bump for justice. I really want this pinned, as it's very hard to find, and that's a problem when the thread is geared towards new players.

 

[LimitCrown]

Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape attack actually has four variations. The fourth variation is when Meta Knight is in the air and doesn't hold left or right. It deals the same damage and appears to deal the same knockback as the advancing slash, but it's the one that actually has the most range compared to the others.

 

[Claxus]

Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape attack actually has four variations. The fourth variation is when Meta Knight is in the air and doesn't hold left or right. It deals the same damage and appears to deal the same knockback as the advancing slash, but it's the one that actually has the most range compared to the others.

Wouldn't that just be three? Left right and neutral? The neutral one also happens when holding up or down.

It's about as strong as the forward version, but it has to be sweetspotted... And while the attack itself has more range, Meta Knight's forward-version extends his reach more because he reappears furthest.

 

[LimitCrown]

Wouldn't that just be three? Left right and neutral? The neutral one also happens when holding up or down.

It's about as strong as the forward version, but it has to be sweetspotted... And while the attack itself has more range, Meta Knight's forward-version extends his reach more because he reappears furthest.

It's actually a different animation if the neutral version is used in the air instead of on the ground, which is why I said it was a fourth variation of the attack.

 

[Claxus]

It's actually a different animation if the neutral version is used in the air instead of on the ground, which is why i said it was a fourth variation of the attack.

Ah, I see. Nice catch, then. I always use it from the air, because that's the only way to get the sweetspot.

 

[Sideswipe]

I made a post some days ago regarding Meta Knight's Side-B being able to spike. I've been playing around with it and testing it in FG and training and it turns out it does Side-B does have a sweetspot where it launches the enemy downward during the drill animation. It consists of tilting downward slightly during the drill animation. It's a bit more complicated in the air because you don't have a visual queue to go off of. When done correctly on land, the enemy will be bounced down similar to the bair spike animation and MK will not bounce off the stage or the enemy (as if you did a side b without changing direction) When done in the air, MK will bounce off the enemy and the enemy will be launched downward. This has a weak meteor effect so it can be jump cancelled quickly as opposed to a true spike. I would record my replays and some videos if I had a better quality camera but if anyone wants to do this be my guest

EDIT: I took a screenshot of the ground spike angle that usually works.

Basically you tilt the side b at a 45 degree angle (just a bit before crashing to the ground) and if done correctly, the enemy crashing animation should happen through every drill hit. What usually happens afterward is Meta Knight finishes the drill animation as if he never hit an enemy and the enemy crashes down with a soft spike effect sort of like this

I haven't found a consistent setup for the spike when using side b offstage/in the air but I noticed something interesting while testing this. I actually got the side-b spike effect as well while holding up instead of down which leads me to believe the spike works because each drill hit launches your enemy forward as MK moves forward so that you can chain each consecutive hit so if one were to get a drill hit and willingly miss the next hits the enemy would be launched forward away from MK.

 

[busken]

Speaking of spikes, prior to patch 1.0.4 Meta Knight's fair was not a spike, but one of the hits had a special knock back called the autolink angle, in which targets are sent in whatever direction the attacker is moving. This was why you had to fast fall the fair in order to quickly send the target downward, while a true spike always sends the target downward regardless of the direction the attacker is moving. However, bair can also send the opponent downward, but I don't know any of the restrictions/requirements. Can somebody please confirm this? If so, this can be a really good edge guarding tactic, as you can slip of the edge and perform the back air and when mastered can take off a stock. It can also be viable for perfect pivoting as a spacing option as you can PP into back aerial and fast fall right away getting the opportunity to rack up at least 22% from just a spacing option.

Here is an example of the autolink angle using Pikachu's bair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJfk1cP-CbQ

 

[Metalex]

@ busken Yeah that's correct! The second hit of Metaknight's Bair still has the meteor effect and a thing i think it can be used for is setting up a jab lock into 3 dtilts. It was much easier before when you could use Fair to do it since you were facing the opponent, but it still seems to work pretty well.

EDIT: Saw just now that this was in the OP already... Interesting that Fsmash can be used after the "Bair meteor".

 

[Beardbot]

I was hitting the sandbag in the online practice room with b-air and it launched straight up. Im wondering why this is because ive never seen b-air launch anything straight up. Any ideas?

 

[Lavani]

I was hitting the sandbag in the online practice room with b-air and it launched straight up. Im wondering why this is because ive never seen b-air launch anything straight up. Any ideas?

Bair's first two hits have an "autolink" angle that adjusts its knockback speed and angle to attempt to keep opponents in the attack until the last hit depending on your own position and movement.

In the case of Sandbag, it has weird aerial hurtboxes that cause the final hit to whiff, so it goes flying into the sky.

 

[busken]

I think the best way to play any character is being able to capitalize on their strengths, and constantly put your opponent in situations where this is achievable. As Meta Knight players, our end goal is to convert our advantages into an edge guard or juggle as this is our greatest strength. Having this in mind, our neutral game has to be very strong. Baiting moves, and hammering the opposition for their mistakes is critical in getting the kill, so our play style should revolve around this idea. Knowing this, we need master our movement options, strongest edge guarding moves, and timing. So questions for us are: What moves can I use to bait my opponent into putting themselves in a position where I can strongly punish? How should I time my moves, in order for them to constantly struggle making it back on stage. How can I counter my opponent's ledge options? What are my kill moves?(most notably via edge guard and juggle.) What are my strongest approach options and how can I use them to gain the advantage?

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm looking to perhaps pick up MK as a rushdown complement to Ness.

Any beginner tips?

 

[Rockin]

Did anyone knew there's a sweet spot for MK's Foward Smash?

I do not take credit in finding this (actually, me and NL stumbled upon a website that explained each character's frame data) and apparantly, MK's Fsmash gots a sweet spot from the middle of the blade to the hilt of it (so basically pretty close). You'll notice you've hit the sweet spot cause it'll freeze like zelda's Bair/Fair sweet spots.

The sweet spot kills the opponent 10% earlier.

also, as for my style, I play a more patient/opportunist type of style. I look for openings with MK and take it as soon as it's shown to me. I then briefly become a rush down character before going back to the patient game with MK. Thus far, I'm doing better then I was before when I was being aggro as hell. XD

 

[DiggersBoy]

I will update this eventually. Finals week for me right now, then I'll work on this a bit after I'm done with that.

 

[Shadow Blitz]

I think I may have noticed some variance in F air damages the other day, does anyone know if it has a sweetspot? Does Bair possiboly has this as well? Sorry, I cannot test this right now as I am busy.

 

[Luigisama]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but I like to do falling bair to fsmash as a kill setup. The bair bounces the opponent off the ground and allows for a fsmash.

 

[LimitCrown]

I think I may have noticed some variance in F air damages the other day, does anyone know if it has a sweetspot? Does Bair possiboly has this as well? Sorry, I cannot test this right now as I am busy.

Each of the first two hits of the front air attack and back air attack deal either 2.2% if the target is on the ground or 1.5% if the target is in the air.

 

[busken]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but I like to do falling bair to fsmash as a kill setup. The bair bounces the opponent off the ground and allows for a fsmash.

This only works if they miss the tech after bouncing on the ground. On top of that it only works from 0-60%. Meta Knight's side smash can't kill at 60%

 

[SSBSteve]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but I like to do falling bair to fsmash as a kill setup. The bair bounces the opponent off the ground and allows for a fsmash.

I mostly do this by accident and end up with a Neutral Air in my face. :/

 

[Xmark]

It's actually a different animation if the neutral version is used in the air instead of on the ground, which is why I said it was a fourth variation of the attack.

What if I told you guys I invented a way to;
Move forward with MK's retreating slash and
Move forward (actual distance) with MK's stationary slash without warping behind the enemy...
Edit* nvm, it's be discovered already... *sad face*

 

[Xmark]

*sigh* I really thought I was the only one who knew about that tech tho... I wanted to name it and everything... T~T

 

[DiggersBoy]

Aight I'm back and holy **** when was this stickied

Will update but first I gotta find things to update with

What has changed/been discovered since I left around the beginning of December?

 

[(Buddha)]

Something to do as MK is Try to use is UP special in the air if you know both attacks will connect... if the enemy is at higher damage.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Hey look I did a thing and updated it

Only added custom moves briefing but will add more as I find more info

 

[Beardbot]

I was in oregon playing smash and met a few metaknight players. One of them was useing d-throw -> shorthop b-air and try as i might i cant seem to execute it. Is there a button mapping change im missing here? He managed to do it pretty consistantly as a follow-up to d-throw

 

[NextPain]

Good to see so many mk mains

 

[Beardbot]

as far as I know and correct me if im wrong but im the only meta knight on any competitive spectrum in Washington. but I do know that t1mmy of the smash twins plays him a lot. I pick up a lot of stuff from this thread though and I appreciate that im not alone.