Meta Knight AT. [Instant Dimensional Edge Cancel]

[2 C H i L L E D]

Found this about a month ago but I just never got around to posting it. Not sure if anyone else has discovered this but by perfectly spacing the power hit of DC near any edge you can cancel the lag from the strong hit allowing you to perform any move or action instantly. And also by holding the opposite direction (Whatever way you are DC'ing toward the ledge DI the opposite direction) of the edge (if it's able to be grabbed) you can cancel the strong hit into an instant edgehog.

Its uses seem limited to me now, but what you can do with it when mastered would be amazing (assuming the PMBR doesn't remove it).

Since the spacing is so strict it makes the AT difficult to perform at first, but after some practice you'll be able to use it more consistently. And It also only works while moving forward with DC. If you try to do it any other way you will just do a reg DC strong hit with its massive lag. The animation for DC's strong hit will not appear just the sword swipe and hitbox, MK's forward momentum will be maintained. (So you know if you did it right.)

Quick Uses:

(Recovering Opponents) Assuming you IDEC --> Offstage.

IDEC --> Reverse Shuttle Loop
IDEC --> Drill Rush (Possible stage spike)
IDEC --> Mach Tornado
IDEC --> **** it. Anything that fits the situtation.

Those are just a few things you can do with it. Even if you don't intend to hit your opponent with the strong hit you always have an instant follow-up coming be it an attack or a ledgegrab. And it can be used on platforms for more movement options but if you screw up the spacing by even the smallest amount you're going to get punished. Sorry for no video but the only way I'd be able to upload is by cell phone, so **** that. Someone else can film themselves doing the AT and post if they want tho.

It's not the easiest or most convenient of AT's but I can see it really working well in MK's arsenal if time is taken to master it.

 

[ScaryPixel]

Seems interesting, could you provide a video demonstrating IDEC?

 

[dettadeus]

i noticed this a while back on PS2, never posted anything about it because i wanted to keep it for myself for a while :3

you can actually combo IDC into itself by doing this which is pretty ridiculous, the spacing is really tough because you have to ledgecancel after the attack comes out though

 

[SpiderMad]

Whoa this cancels quicker than I thought. Is there any place or way on certain stages to get the distance right more easily?

Also @ dettadeus I was watching this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ7k0Ecs3Pk . I wasn't able to perform the Zero-Lag Glide in the current version, as well as noticing they may have changed some global physics or lowered increased glide speed or something. On dreamland under the main top platform when you up-b under it while on the ground it acts differently and will cancel out before ever entering glide (like the landing detection possibly being raised a bit or something)

 

[dettadeus]

The Zero Lag Glide does indeed work, it's just fairly difficult to perform. I still do it in tournament sets with v3.02. They did however change how his upb handles landing detection and gave it a landing animation (something it lacked in brawl and his initial PM release), however if you space it properly you will slide off the top platform with a grounded UpB and immediately go into the air (basically just an edge cancel). You'll fly off in the opposite direction you're facing when you UpB due to the momentum you have, making it a really good OoS option when under the middle platform on Dreamland.

Also if you are gliding into a platform, try not to drop glide or glide attack and simply slide towards the edge and your momentum will carry you off more smoothly. Glide attack is harder to edge cancel now and the glide drop can be laggy if you don't space it properly (and also won't edge cancel 90% of the time).

One day I'll have some tournament videos up.

 

[SpiderMad]

I heard MK's Nair (and possibly other moves?) have some sort of unclankableness left over from Brawl or something? How do I utilize this? Does it always beat out certain projectiles easily or something?

 

[Kit Cal-N]

All of Meta Knight's non-special sword attacks (except Glide Attack (and d-tilt maybe?)) are unclankable. I've always heard this referred to as "laser priority". Like Fox and Falco's lasers, his sword will go through and continue through any other attack.
This has both positives and negatives. Usually two hitboxes that connect win, lose, or tie (clank) when they collide based on priority. Meta Knight's sword will just go through it. So, if MK's hitbox (sword) reaches the opponent's hurtbox (body) before their hitbox reaches your hurtbox, you win! If they reach at the same time, you'll exchange hits. Generally, that's bad for MK because his multi-hit attack will only hit once before being interrupted. It's difficult to LOSE this way, but you can't get much of an advantage with it, either. People won't be able to clank to "block" with their hitboxes like you can with a regular disjointed hitbox (Marth's non-special sword). Generally, if your spacing was correct to being with, it won't come up.

Notable exceptions:
Gimping Falco Phantasm takes tighter timing (don't nair!)
Din's Fire is tough to get rid of
Armor moves

 

[SpiderMad]

So if they fixed that, would that make him overall better or worse? What do His MU with Bowser would become better because he can't hit people out of Armor with the unclankable moves? And like Marth or something better or worse?

Also who created your signature? It's so weird and majestic, what's the tiger painting from?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Nair Falco phantasm works though because Falcos hurtbox is always slightly in front of his hitbox... Basically, the transcendent priority is bad when dealing with ranged combat because you can't clank projectiles that you normally could (like Marios fireballs). You can use Dash attack still to clank but it leaves you open... The best thing about it is that you will normally win ground attack wars because your attacks are often faster and ground attacks won't clank now. It makes your Down-smash (earliest frame 6) a much better option and your down (frame 6)- and forward (frame 3 on hit one but less range)-tilt to a lesser extent, too

 

[Kit Cal-N]

So if they fixed that, would that make him overall better or worse? What do His MU with Bowser would become better because he can't hit people out of Armor with the unclankable moves? And like Marth or something better or worse?

Also who created your signature? It's so weird and majestic, what's the tiger painting from?

He has a hard people out of armor because most of his attacks don't do enough damage, the priority doesn't matter.
I would say he'd be overall worse because he'd be landing fewer hits.

I made my signature in like 2009. The painting is Peter Paul Rubens Tiger Hunt http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Peter_Paul_Rubens_110.jpg

 

[JABS]

IDC is not restricted to just forward movement. It is restricted to his side swipe of the sword. Should MK do the turnaround animation(he swipes the sword upward) he moved slightly upwards, this will nullify he possibility of a ledge cancel since the character isn't moving downward. Anything else goes though, even a backhop, so long as the rematerialization occurs on the edge of a platform and the animation is a side swipe(which moves the character slightly downward. You could for instance run towards a platform, jump, (just as MK is halfway into the platform, use DC) then do the reverse C-stick. He would ledge-cancel off the opposite end of the platform facing towards the direction he ran from. OR, you could do the same thing, except do the forward quickstrick, resulting in the same thing, but him facing the same direction which he ran in. On battlefield, this will cause him to grab the ledge even so long as you hold back once he is falling. The strike animation will or will not come out depending on when you reappear. The timing is extremely strict and I don't want to admit but it's not consistent where a match counts unless you have this technique mastered.

I found this also with the DC GroundBounce but we already have a thread for this so I will include some footage of it in a separate video at the same time I compose the video for the DC jump recovery thread and post it here. Again, unless this is mastered, the consistency is hazardous but otherwise potentially destructive.

Its still sweet as **** though. "Likes"

 

[Pizzarand]

I don't know if this is trivial, but there's a similiar thing I just found out about. By using DC near a ledge facing the other direction and performing the upwards slash(the one that moves you back a bit), instead of going on top of the platform or near the ledge, you bounce of the platform without doing an attack. You can act immediately out of it and, like the cape bounce, you gain all your jumps back.
Imo this Technique holds little to no value, but I thought I just mention it because it seems pretty similar to how the IDEC works.

 

[JABS]

Okay I understand what you're saying, although you described it a bit unclearly. If you use the rising slash while adjacent to a platform or the edge of the stage, you ledge cancel. Its easier to do offstage imo but it sends you back off stage. To see this, go offstage and make sure MK is one full MK away from the edge, and he is facing backwards, use DC and press the c-stick to the opposite direction MK was facing, he should ledge cancel off stage. On stage yo can do this too, you usually have to jump though. Interesting Pizzarand, didn't know about this. I'll also put this in the video. Lol my post above is completely incorrect then. You can still edge cancel with any strike from MK's DC.

 

[burntfish44]

is this idec still a thing, and if so are there any video examples? just kinda having trouble getting it is all - you just have less lag near the edges? or something?

 

[JABS]

There aren't any up...yet. I'm still trying to get the video up; but due to classes, end of the semester exams and upcoming finals, and a silly bout with movie maker not working. It's taken me a ludicrous amount of time to get the job done. Thankfully I've just recently received a copy of ROXIO software from a friend, and I'm now currently putting everything together, balancing the time between the video, class, tests, and of course Smash.