Melee plus N64 ssb = Brawl???

[alwinroth]

well i think i came up with something...

this is my opnion so dont be all made... opinions are simply opinions...


anyways

in the n64 ssb
which i loved, you were able to actually jump off the stage and manage to not sink down as fast as melee...
gameplay was slow...

in melee gameplay was very fast, sometimes you probably cant figure out what your doing...
and when you jump off the stage you sink down quite fast...

in brawl -
they sort of mixed it together...
you can jump off the stage but you wont sink down as fast...
gameplay was fast, but not as fast as melee, so i actually can handle kirby much better now...



note-
i notieced these changes using only kirby...

in the n64 kirby was terribly powerful -(once again my opinion)
in the melee he was wimpy, i never managed to win against my brother, but in the n64 version i can completely own him...
in the brawl version kirby is mixed together with the n64 version and the melee. i actually can win some fights against my brother as long as he doesnt hog up the brawl...


this is my opinion go ahead and post your ideas on this...

happy brawling <("<)

 

[Surri-Sama]

well i think i came up with something...

this is my opnion so dont be all made... opinions are simply opinions...


anyways

in the n64 ssb
which i loved, you were able to actually jump off the stage and manage to not sink down as fast as melee...
gameplay was slow...

in melee gameplay was very fast, sometimes you probably cant figure out what your doing...
and when you jump off the stage you sink down quite fast...

in brawl -
they sort of mixed it together...
you can jump off the stage but you wont sink down as fast...
gameplay was fast, but not as fast as melee, so i actually can handle kirby much better now...



note-
i notieced these changes using only kirby...

in the n64 kirby was terribly powerful -(once again my opinion)
in the melee he was wimpy, i never managed to win against my brother, but in the n64 version i can completely own him...
in the brawl version kirby is mixed together with the n64 version and the melee. i actually can win some fights against my brother as long as he doesnt hog up the brawl...


this is my opinion go ahead and post your ideas on this...

happy brawling <("<)

"in the n64 kirby was terribly powerful -(once again my opinion)" this is just as much opinion as it is fact, kirby was very easy to use in the 64 one as he had very high priority.

some parts of Brawl remind me of Smash64 but for the majority it seems like an entirly diffrent fighting game, much like comparing melee to smash64, some small similarties but a lot more HUGE diffreances

 

[b13lion]

*<10 Char>*

 

[Surri-Sama]

yea I agree, I've been telling all my friends the same thing about the 64+melee=brawl thing...I'm a main Link player but I fiddled around with some other characters and I found that brawl pika is much like 64 pika.

heh I wish man, pika being my main in both I can very clearly tell you there are a LOT of diffrences, no huge Arieal Finisher, only 2-3 Arieal UP links, uneffective grabs, (well for finishing Dthrow is good for combo) and a few others I dont wish to go into detial about as i am far to lazy, plus I think you allready get the point

 

[b13lion]

*<10 Char>*

 

[Snakeyes]

Yeah ? Where is the lag-canceling, where are the combos ?

 

[Surri-Sama]

Yeah ? Where is the lag-canceling, where are the combos ?

back in the stone age with you Fred, combos are stil there but they seem all very situational now, its like playing with Samus all the time =.=

 

[Mike87]

Yeah you it does kind of feel like a combination of the first two games

 

[_kSo_]

Yeah you it does kind of feel like a combination of the first two games

brawl = no combos, no tech skill, no speed

where are the characteristics of brawl that represent melee + 64 again?

 

[b13lion]

*<10 Char>*

 

[Fabrian]

there are combos, play as metaknight he's full of em.
If you want a tip, use Timing attacks, that means use your attack so that it finishes right before you land it works perfect with many aerials.

 

[greenblob]

Low hitstun=no combos. If you use a weak attack, most of the time your opponent will recover from hitstun before your attack animation is over.

 

[Fabrian]

That's why metaknight is the best for combos... because his animation is extremely minimal. Others like pit have those kind of moves and the other characters in brawl have moves to back it up, like snake. I've seen sonic chain his forward aerial x3 in a row.

 

[Surri-Sama]

That's why metaknight is the best for combos... because his animation is extremely minimal. Others like pit have those kind of moves and the other characters in brawl have moves to back it up, like snake. I've seen sonic chain his forward aerial x3 in a row.

This is because your playing people who dont use Arieal Dodge, now that it doesnt cancle yoru jumps its pretty much the combo killer of Brawl, with the hitstun so low air dodge makes combo dam near imposibul

and to the person who said Bralws speed is between Melee and 64, wth?? Melee was super fast, Smash64 was a little slow, Bralw is just Snail riding on a turtle =.=

 

[b13lion]

*<10 Char>*

 

[Surri-Sama]

yea that was me...and seriously it's not that slow, what characters are you playing with??? DeDeDe, Bowser, DK, Ganondorf... if you want speed play with Fox or Sonic or something. Link was slower compared to other people in melee too and I still kicked arse with him as did many other Link mainers such as GERM(seriously if you have never seen a video by GERM...your just missing out cause he makes Link seem like one of the fastest Characters in melee...just watching how he played Link made me a better Link player)

i main Pika and Pit, i know what fast chars are =.=

 

[Snakeyes]

The speed of Brawl is in between melee and 64

there are combos, you just haven't discovered them yet because the game has only been out for 10 days where as melee 7 years...I promise you in 2 or 3 years down the road people will come up with some crazy combos...I found a bad as$ one already with link but it's just kind of a given...you are above your opponent and already have a bomb out...throw the bomb down at him/her and come down with your Dair...simple and very effective at sending people at high %...if the bomb misses just do a Nair or Bair so you won't leave yourself wide open.

and as far as teching...I never really liked that anyways...if your good enough you shouldn't have to use teching(if we are on the same page about teching)

The game has been out for a month for many of us. And ROFL at 2 hit combos

 

[b13lion]

*<10 Char>*

 

[PhillipthaGoober]

I kinda agree.

 

[Fabrian]

i main Pika and Pit, i know what fast chars are =.=

pit is a mind game type of character, he's medium closer to fast but not fast... I think you're getting that illusion from the multihit attacks, same for pika except pika has some fast moves. Sonic and shiek are what you call fast characters.

The people that say they hate brawl are reacting the same way peole did when melee first came out.

 

[greenblob]

That's why metaknight is the best for combos... because his animation is extremely minimal. Others like pit have those kind of moves and the other characters in brawl have moves to back it up, like snake. I've seen sonic chain his forward aerial x3 in a row.

You know there's something wrong when I bair with Toon Link and get hit back before I recover from my own attack.

ok this game is NOT called Killer Instinct or Mortal Kombat...who honestly counts there combos in Smash...the game sure doesn't...would it be more impressive if I hit them with a boomerang first followed up by a short hop Nair to a Up smash then a bomb Dair, would that be better?

What are you talking about. Smash 64 and Melee had good combos.

 

[Fabrian]

lol your exagerating there greenblob the only way for that to happen is if you tried to light hit.

 

[Surri-Sama]

pit is a mind game type of character, he's medium closer to fast but not fast... I think you're getting that illusion from the multihit attacks, same for pika except pika has some fast moves. Sonic and shiek are what you call fast characters.

The people that say they hate brawl are reacting the same way peole did when melee first came out.

Aye now your putting words in my mouth i never said i hated brawl, i just said the combos are lesser and the game play is overall slower compared to Melee and Smash64, obviously itll get faster as we all (by we all i mean me) get better but i don't think itll come up to the latter games of Smash

 

[Fabrian]

Aye now your putting words in my mouth i never said i hated brawl, i just said the combos are lesser and the game play is overall slower compared to Melee and Smash64, obviously itll get faster as we all (by we all i mean me) get better but i don't think itll come up to the latter games of Smash

well my mistake i meant to put a quotations on hate.

Anyways you must admit sakurai's goal this time around was to make the gap in the balance between the characters smaller and they did a pretty dam good job at it.

The entertainment factor is still there for the tournaments as I've seen from a lot of videos...

I was tired of just seeing just marth, fox, falco, falcon, and shiek (and the occasional peach ) in the tourneys...

 

[Surri-Sama]

well my mistake i meant to put a quotations on hate.

Anyways you must admit sakurai's goal this time around was to make the gap in the balance between the characters smaller and they did a pretty dam good job at it.

The entertainment factor is still there for the tournaments as I've seen from a lot of videos...

I was tired of just seeing just marth, fox, falco, falcon, and shiek (and the occasional peach ) in the tourneys...

yeah, but i dont find that justifies killing a combo system and speed, :| but thats just IMO and we all know IMO mean nothing when it comes to how games are made

 

[Fabrian]

speed is kind of still there just a bit lower the graphics give you the illusion it's very slow, but the physics are changed so air time is greatly increased.

Apart from L/Z(in 64) canceling I don't mind that every other technique has disappeared or changed, not many fighting games that make their sequels keep some of the systems they had in their previous games anyways...

 

[_kSo_]

The speed of Brawl is in between melee and 64

there are combos, you just haven't discovered them yet because the game has only been out for 10 days where as melee 7 years...I promise you in 2 or 3 years down the road people will come up with some crazy combos...I found a bad as$ one already with link but it's just kind of a given...you are above your opponent and already have a bomb out...throw the bomb down at him/her and come down with your Dair...simple and very effective at sending people at high %...if the bomb misses just do a Nair or Bair so you won't leave yourself wide open.

and as far as teching...I never really liked that anyways...if your good enough you shouldn't have to use teching(if we are on the same page about teching)

i believe you are terribly mistaken

brawl, in fact is SLOWER than ssb64. if you are referring to the game itself and not the gameplay, I'd say it's about the same. But the actual gameplay is slower than anything because of the severe lack of techniques required to play this game.

Don't go into all that nonsense about how the lack of tech makes the game revolve around mind games therefore making it require more mind games. Of course, that is a false statement. the lack of tech skill is indeed a severe cut in mind games as well. With more tech skill in the game, it opens up the window to more mind games because there are more options as far as evading and maneuvering around the map.

 

[Fabrian]

i believe you are terribly mistaken

brawl, in fact is SLOWER than ssb64. if you are referring to the game itself and not the gameplay, I'd say it's about the same. But the actual gameplay is slower than anything because of the severe lack of techniques required to play this game.

Don't go into all that nonsense about how the lack of tech makes the game revolve around mind games therefore making it require more mind games. Of course, that is a false statement. the lack of tech skill is indeed a severe cut in mind games as well. With more tech skill in the game, it opens up the window to more mind games because there are more options as far as evading and maneuvering around the map.

techniques required to play the game? wtf

I have a lot to say but now is not the time to say it... you just have to wait that people get out of the 64 and melee mindset, because just in the same way, you'll suck in melee if you play it with a 64 mindset.

 

[Surri-Sama]

techniques required to play the game? wtf

I have a lot to say but now is not the time to say it... you just have to wait that people get out of the 64 and melee mindset, because just in the same way, you'll suck in melee if you play it with a 64 mindset.

your not even making counter points anymore, just repeating the same thigns we prove wrong time and time again, so im done here i think we all who know how to read understand whats going on =.=

 

[omfgomfg]

The actual gameplay is slower than anything because of the severe lack of techniques required to play this game.

yes

pit is a mind game type of character

no

 

[Fabrian]

your not even making counter points anymore, just repeating the same thigns we prove wrong time and time again, so im done here i think we all who know how to read understand whats going on =.=

I don't need to... he's making a link between things that don't exist.

The only important technique that has been removed was canceling and there already ways to counter that... wavedash was considered a glitch and automaticly killed off a good 3/4 of the characters in melee so sakurai decided to lessen that gap. The techniques are not required to play the game, I don't know where you get that idea because it's not like they were required to play melee or 64 anyways. They were only noticed, discovered and then implemented because they helped maximize the player's potential. That's a good thing but you realize that with a new game being created, the game maker probably knows that if melee was too similar it'd be boring as hell, and many new characters (like metaknight and sonic) would be overpowered... the same characters would remain unused and you get my point. Brawl will have his own techs, just like smash 64 or melee. Whether there are many small techs discovered or 1 big one, it's not something to compare to melee or smash 64, just like how smash 64 isn't something you can compare to melee, because they are completely different from one another in every aspect apart for the classic mode setting...

 

[OnettSphere]

I'd have to agree,
Brawl is floaty and Melee was fast
I'd actually go and say that N64SB was in the middle

 

[Surri-Sama]

I don't need to... he's making a link between things that don't exist.

The only important technique that has been removed was canceling and there already ways to counter that... wavedash was considered a glitch and automaticly killed off a good 3/4 of the characters in melee so sakurai decided to lessen that gap. The techniques are not required to play the game, I don't know where you get that idea because it's not like they were required to play melee or 64 anyways. They were only noticed, discovered and then implemented because they helped maximize the player's potential. That's a good thing but you realize that with a new game being created, the game maker probably knows that if melee was too similar it'd be boring as hell, and many new characters (like metaknight and sonic) would be overpowered... the same characters would remain unused and you get my point. Brawl will have his own techs, just like smash 64 or melee. Whether there are many small techs discovered or 1 big one, it's not something to compare to melee or smash 64, just like how smash 64 isn't something you can compare to melee, because they are completely different from one another in every aspect apart for the classic mode setting...

You take a really long time to say things, "Brawl and smash64/Melee are diffrent games" NAO WAI this still doesnt mean ANYTHING when it comes to the factr that Brawl is slower, (it could actually help point towards that fact) and that its not a combo centered game

 

[Fabrian]

You take a really long time to say things, "Brawl and smash64/Melee are diffrent games" NAO WAI this still doesnt mean ANYTHING when it comes to the factr that Brawl is slower, (it could actually help point towards that fact) and that its not a combo centered game

Don't comment on irrelevant things, i made that post long with purpose.
I say so what if brawl is slower the fights are still entertaining to watch and play if you're fighting someone who knows what he's doing. If it was faster it would suck, just look at character movesets and you'll see why.

Your gonna tell me there are no combos possible when some are already shown on youtube? Those that are more obvious are yoshi, ice climbers etc... Just because it's not as easy to get good at does mean that melee has anything over brawl right now.

When you add a special attack that does not determine the outcome of the match but can do a one hit K.O you know you made a good game...

 

[Surri-Sama]

When you add a special attack that does not determine the outcome of the match but can do a one hit K.O you know you made a good game...

hah i see what the problem is but it doesnt matter, im not gona keep argueing, i just want to say somethign about this ising a system of combat/health ratios that is based of %s, THEN knowing this, using it to your advantage, is a good thing

 

[Wenbobular]

When you add a special attack that does not determine the outcome of the match but can do a one hit K.O you know you made a good game...

This point doesn't even make sense. What're you even talking about?

Let's start from KSO's comment.
You say he has to get out of the SSB64/SSBM mindset, when all he was doing was addressing your statement about SSBB being between SSB and SSBM (false) and how less tech means less mindgames (possibly debatable, but you didn't even try).
Things that don't exist? What, lack of tech skill required? True. You don't even have to L-cancel anymore.
Lack of mindgames? Debatable, but you're not debating.
Your big post was definitely just saying "Brawl is different from the previous installments."
The best combo I've seen so far is Falco's laser lock on an opponent who forgot to tech. Great. Most of the other "combos" I've seen have thus far not been practical.
Just to put things out there, Aniki plays a very mean Link.
And another thing - I don't dislike Brawl. I think it's a fun game (Ike is pretty beast, Metaknight sucks ), but I don't think you're doing a very good job defending it

 

[Mike87]

brawl = no combos, no tech skill, no speed

There are plenty of techniques being found in Brawl, just go to the Tactical discussion forum.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

pit is a mind game type of character, he's medium closer to fast but not fast... I think you're getting that illusion from the multihit attacks, same for pika except pika has some fast moves. Sonic and shiek are what you call fast characters

Sheik is much slower then you think, ask any melee sheik player that went into brawl(sheik was never very fast thou compared to fox in melee however) ... Sonic on the other hand is stupid fast.

The people that say they hate brawl are reacting the same way peole did when melee first came out.

This is somewhat true, the game is still very new, however we have much more talent(people) trying to learn stuff then we did 7 years ago. The only reason people overreacted for the most part was because of the lack of combo's they found the first few years playing it, however it evolved over time. Many people ARE affraid of change(you know who you are ). However I'm only scared that brawl will not live up to the standards of melee competitive play : /

 

[b13lion]

*<10 Char>*

 

[Fabrian]

This point doesn't even make sense. What're you even talking about?

All I said is that brawl is a good game... There's no doubt about it... I don't know why you quoted that statement. And dude when I skip lines, that means I'm not talking about the same thing. (Like this)

The only thing I replied to the quote about kso was on my first line. For the rest of your post I don't know what your talking about. There are still mind games, that is not debatable, in every game where there is fighting and the fighting system works there are mind games... combos are easy to do... if you haven't seen one, then you haven't been looking. That's all there is to say that is relevant to what I said in previous posts I think.