Melee physics recreated with equipment

[SpandexBullets]

So, I did it.

I took every customization, option and alteration Sakurai put at my disposal and tried to recreate Melee's insane speed physics. To do this, I had to correctly adjust falling speed, air speed, launch power and damage output, which is difficult because of how different each character is to their respective Melee version.
Originally, I thought such a thing would be only be made possible by acquiring the very allusive Anchor Jump equipment to a specific stat and as a badge. Turns out, however, that piece of equipment just activates Heavy Gravity on a single character...so I moved to tailoring every character to behave under Special Smash with HG active. (I also pushed launch power to x1.2, so as to retain vertical kill power.)

The majority of the cast were given a set that met these stat boosts and bonuses:
Attack: +/- 0
Defense: +/- 0
Speed: +35
Bonus: Slow Glider, Jogger, Smooth Lander
With the +35 speed buff, each character could then fast-fall faster, and retain their jump height when under HG. Jogger and Slow Glider were implemented to balance out the other buffs given with +35 speed.
(Speed boosts and HG do not noticeably affect short hop height, which is a surprise.)

Buuuuuuuut, I couldn't just slap a single set onto each character be done with it. Shiek was given a damage buff of about...+92 and Metaknight was reverted to his Brawl falling speed using Floaty Jumps (PM be damned) and spared Smooth Lander. Some characters like Fox, Link, Mario and Ike got minimal damage buffs...but I'm still working on making the cast very solid (it sounds like a grind but this is actually superb fun - especially when I can make Mewtwo more resiliant and make Jiggs fly like a leaf in the wind...)

I recorded at least...twenty 3 minute battles with with a ghost P2 showcasing how each character worked under these changes.
Only 1 could be uploaded because Nintendo is hip with the kids and understands how the web works. I must have forgotten to get off the phone while playing. My B.

Anyway, here's my lone surviving Fox video (without Jogger mind you, so he runs slightly too fast)

(Ganon either jumps or airdodges after a throw to show when he can escape. HG doesn't directly affect histun, but it does affect trajectory, meaning that throws that send the opponent too far away are much shorter with the opponents in hitstun. Also, diagonal trajectories become curved and give less launch overall, allowing more follow-ups. Semi-spikes are OP.)

 

[SpandexBullets]

Oh, and changing the defence stat might be on the most crucial by far; it alters shield stun and shield health.

That's big.

 

[Paxadin]

Attack stack breaks shields much faster as well.

 

[ShinyRegice]

Inspired by your thread, I've tried to play with heavy gravity and giving equipments to all characters: +2 atq, -14 def, +22 spd, 0.6× landing lag (two smooth landers) and 0.5× shield regen (shield degenerator). So far I've played almost only against level 9 CPUs but that's because I don't have many people to play Smash with, and this had been overall a gameplay improvement imo, with a faster pace and more follow-ups.

After that I tried to go back with normal non-custom gameplay but it seemed so slow and floaty, which is weird considering this is how I've played this game for so long... I've also played a match with my brother with those custom equipments and heavy gravity and he said as well that it felt much better.

The main issue is that the recovery of some characters is sort of screwed, such as Diddy Kong who now sucks at recovering horizontally. I've changed his side special to the one which makes a high jump, but even then it doesn't improve that much.

 

[Raijinken]

I'm sure this will appeal to some subset of the playerbase, but I already deleted all of my equipment so I could random while playing customs.

Still, cool results for people who prefer the Melee-esque physics.

 

[SpandexBullets]

I'm sure this will appeal to some subset of the playerbase, but I already deleted all of my equipment so I could random while playing customs.

Still, cool results for people who prefer the Melee-esque physics.

This was just an experiment if anyone was interested in seeing if it could be done.
I do think equipment is underrated and can be genuinely fun.

 

[CrabLeg]

Now if only the movement options from Melee could be recreated.

 

[blootannery]

It would blow my mind if someone could create a blend of Smash4 and Melee.
Imagine.

Melee, with the Smash4 roster (ice climbers included, I'm very meh about pichu and young link), along with all of its beautiful mechanics and speed. L-cancelling, wavedashing, SHFFLing, all the hitboxes and hurtboxes and the finely tuned details, everything that didn't make the cut to brawl. And no tripping. Except Diddy's bananas.

All of that, but with the polish, graphics, and deadly-smash red lightning of Smash4.
That's all i really need in my life.

 

[SpandexBullets]

It would blow my mind if someone could create a blend of Smash4 and Melee.
Imagine.

Melee, with the Smash4 roster (ice climbers included, I'm very meh about pichu and young link), along with all of its beautiful mechanics and speed. L-cancelling, wavedashing, SHFFLing, all the hitboxes and hurtboxes and the finely tuned details, everything that didn't make the cut to brawl. And no tripping. Except Diddy's bananas.

All of that, but with the polish, graphics, and deadly-smash red lightning of Smash4.
That's all i really need in my life.

Well, PM is basically that with Brawl, although I do think L-cancelling and wavedashing are inherently flawed;
they do a lot to the metagame (without it Falco and Fox would not be top tier), but they make the game needlessly complicated, which is what makes the learning curve so steep and hostile to new players. It also makes the margin for mistakes incredibly small, and you see these mistakes often in high level play.

Like, why would you ever NOT L-cancel? I get that it was a restriction in Melee, but even players who play PM and not Melee have to do it (although the recent inclusion of auto-Lcancel is pretty sweet).

And I like wavedashing, but have any Brawl or melee mods attempted to remedy it by tying wavedashing to the / buttons when used with the control stick? The control stick already has set angles, and there's always at least 2 buttons unused on the GC controller.

 

[ChikoLad]

Eh, it's a neat attempt, but at the end of the day, this isn't Melee physics, just buffing characters by changing their variables.

Melee physics entails quite a bit more, such as being able to carry the momentum from a dash into a jump.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Eh, it's a neat attempt, but at the end of the day, this isn't Melee physics, just buffing characters by changing their variables.

Melee physics entails quite a bit more, such as being able to carry the momentum from a dash into a jump.

THAT. I LOVED THAT.

Well, it does carry the biggest parts of melee's physics; the gravity and fast-falling speed, but yeah. It's never gonna be perfect.

 

[ChikoLad]

Gravity and fast falling speed are not something specific to Melee, as it's just a variable. Fox in Smash 4 already feels pretty similar to Melee Fox in terms of movement.

Idk I'm less seeing Melee physics and more Smash 4 physics with some more extreme variables. I'm sure it's fun to play with these settings but I don't think Melee elitists would suddenly start playing Smash 4 with these settings, especially with it being currently impossible to control the kind of equipment one can get.

I apologise if I sound overly critical, but I don't think Melee was necessarily defined by quick variables. It was just geared more towards offense. I would say Smash 4 is pretty close to Melee as is with the speed of a lot of characters, but the landing and end lag variables in Smash 4 are (mostly) more realistic and shields and such are stronger, and then characters like Rosalina are exceptional despite not being defined by their more rushdown centric tactics and qualities. Essentially, it isn't the speed variables that are all that different in Smash 4, it's the mechanics, like more variety in characters, stronger shields, lack of dash-jump momentum, lack of wave dashing, wider variety of viable playstyles, etc.

EDIT: GAIS REAL MELEE PHYSICS

 

[SpandexBullets]

Gravity and fast falling speed are not something specific to Melee, as it's just a variable. Fox in Smash 4 already feels pretty similar to Melee Fox in terms of movement.

Idk I'm less seeing Melee physics and more Smash 4 physics with some more extreme variables. I'm sure it's fun to play with these settings but I don't think Melee elitists would suddenly start playing Smash 4 with these settings, especially with it being currently impossible to control the kind of equipment one can get.

I apologise if I sound overly critical, but I don't think Melee was necessarily defined by quick variables. It was just geared more towards offense. I would say Smash 4 is pretty close to Melee as is with the speed of a lot of characters, but the landing and end lag variables in Smash 4 are (mostly) more realistic and shields and such are stronger, and then characters like Rosalina are exceptional despite not being defined by their more rushdown centric tactics and qualities. Essentially, it isn't the speed variables that are all that different in Smash 4, it's the mechanics, like more variety in characters, stronger shields, lack of dash-jump momentum, lack of wave dashing, wider variety of viable playstyles, etc.

No prob, it really is just an experiment.

EDIT: woah

 

[GhettoNinja]

Well, PM is basically that with Brawl, although I do think L-cancelling and wavedashing are inherently flawed;
they do a lot to the metagame (without it Falco and Fox would not be top tier), but they make the game needlessly complicated, which is what makes the learning curve so steep and hostile to new players. It also makes the margin for mistakes incredibly small, and you see these mistakes often in high level play.

Like, why would you ever NOT L-cancel? I get that it was a restriction in Melee, but even players who play PM and not Melee have to do it (although the recent inclusion of auto-Lcancel is pretty sweet).

And I like wavedashing, but have any Brawl or melee mods attempted to remedy it by tying wavedashing to the / buttons when used with the control stick? The control stick already has set angles, and there's always at least 2 buttons unused on the GC controller.

Personally I don't give a 2 *** about there being no wave dashing. What does hurt me is no L Canceling. Its the most useful tool in any game. As for why it's needed? First off its a tool that allows platers to add more combos and speed to their play but isnt hard or complicated and the game is still fun without using it. Also it's important to note you don't want to L-Cancel all moves because it will Cancel important frames on multi hit moves as well as make some aerials less useful since they're instantly gone.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Personally I don't give a 2 *** about there being no wave dashing. What does hurt me is no L Canceling. Its the most useful tool in any game. As for why it's needed? First off its a tool that allows platers to add more combos and speed to their play but isnt hard or complicated and the game is still fun without using it. Also it's important to note you don't want to L-Cancel all moves because it will Cancel important frames on multi hit moves as well as make some aerials less useful since they're instantly gone.

But you have to do it every. damn. time. with most aerial attacks like strong bairs, up airs, combo breaking nairs and drills like Kirby and Mario's, and since SDI is a much more prominent factor in PM and Melee, why would you NOT do it with those attacks? It's just creating a steeper difficulty curve and a smaller margin for mistake for almost no reason.

 

[Khao]

Personally I don't give a 2 *** about there being no wave dashing. What does hurt me is no L Canceling. Its the most useful tool in any game. As for why it's needed? First off its a tool that allows platers to add more combos and speed to their play but isnt hard or complicated and the game is still fun without using it. Also it's important to note you don't want to L-Cancel all moves because it will Cancel important frames on multi hit moves as well as make some aerials less useful since they're instantly gone.

Uh... When exactly would missing an L-Cancel be better? All it does is make you act faster out of a recovery animation, you never lose hitboxes or anything useful by doing it. Doing an L-Cancel is objectively better than not doing so 100% of times, it's not even arguable.

Making those animations faster in the first place would be even better. You really don't need L-Cancel to recreate Melee-level physics or playstyle.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Uh... When exactly would missing an L-Cancel be better? All it does is make you act faster out of a recovery animation, you never lose hitboxes or anything useful by doing it. Doing an L-Cancel is objectively better than not doing so 100% of times, it's not even arguable.

Making those animations faster in the first place would be even better. You really don't need L-Cancel to recreate Melee-level physics or playstyle.

I think ninja meant landing hitboxes (i think) like Dr Mario's dair. But yeah, it's still kind of a ridiculous mechanic that's only present so Melee players aren't alienated/feel disadvantaged.

 

[Emz | 250]

I mean, it's not perfect, but it's a pretty cool experiment!

 

[GhettoNinja]

Uh... When exactly would missing an L-Cancel be better? All it does is make you act faster out of a recovery animation, you never lose hitboxes or anything useful by doing it. Doing an L-Cancel is objectively better than not doing so 100% of times, it's not even arguable.

Making those animations faster in the first place would be even better. You really don't need L-Cancel to recreate Melee-level physics or playstyle.

Smh this is the problem with people that Dislike L-Canceling, they don't understand its uses outside of removing lag. When you L-Cancel you are removing frames. Which is fine for when you wiff a attack but sometimes you want the move to stay out longer. For example Young Link's Bair Is a multi hit move. If I wanted to use it all the way to the ground I'd have to not L-Cancel it because the L-Cancel window is wonky like that.

I think ninja meant landing hitboxes (i think) like Dr Mario's dair. But yeah, it's still kind of a ridiculous mechanic that's only present so Melee players aren't alienated/feel disadvantaged.

It's present in 64 too.. It's not about having a advantage its about adding layers to the game. It's really not Ridiculous(In my Opinion) because it has multiple uses and has to be thought out. It's a good mechanic to have because not everyone plays comepetively. Some people just want to have fun and if every character is lag less I think the game would be a lot less approachable to casuals. Also lets be real, if you want to play the game comepetively there's nothing wrong with learning a simple button press. one that opens quite a bit of options for the player but isn't ground breaking.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Smh this is the problem with people that Dislike L-Canceling, they don't understand its uses outside of removing lag. When you L-Cancel you are removing frames. Which is fine for when you wiff a attack but sometimes you want the move to stay out longer. For example Young Link's Bair Is a multi hit move. If I wanted to use it all the way to the ground I'd have to not L-Cancel it because the L-Cancel window is wonky like that.

It's present in 64 too.. It's not about having a advantage its about adding layers to the game. It's really not Ridiculous(In my Opinion) because it has multiple uses and has to be thought out. It's a good mechanic to have because not everyone plays comepetively. Some people just want to have fun and if every character is lag less I think the game would be a lot less approachable to casuals. Also lets be real, if you want to play the game comepetively there's nothing wrong with learning a simple button press. one that opens quite a bit of options for the player but isn't ground breaking.

It's a 7 frame window that you have to press at least 70 times in a match. That's kind of excessive.