Melee Mode

[Vkrm]

Even the casuals I know prefer melee.

 

[nessokman]

They'd never give it a crappy name like freaking "melee mode".thats the most ******** idea ever.i could see them using coins as currency and let you buy the ability to do such things

 

[PikaJew]

PikaJew, your intentions are benevolent and in most rights I agree-some people do take it a bit too far on their feeling towards the upcoming Smash, and as you have said each game should feel different from the last and like an unique beast. but I feel the issue people had, and the reason why Melee gets so much praise, is because it was arguably the most well rounded of the 3-64 was a very, VERY offensive game, and then Melee introduced more tools for defensive use like the air dodge and Samus/Link's Grapples, but still maintained enough of an offensive game that it was engaging to have matches in. Brawl went overkill with defensive tools, with changing the air dodge to infinite use, the auto ledge grab, and gliding, as well as cutting hitstun almost in half. because of that, most matches devolved to a more campier nature, sometimes to the point where some were turned off by the design, and some offensive characters suffered from the change(Weegee,cap,Puffy).

What I'm basically driving at is even though I love Brawl and will defend it with it's warts and all, I can still see why some were turned off and are wary of the next game....and to an extent I agree. But I'm, absolutely sure Sakurai has heard the feedback and seen the fan reaction, and with Nintendo trying to target a more traditional gaming audience, KI:U NOT being designed in a more casual-natured setting, and them getting Bamco to help(including guys who worked on Tekken and SC), I get the feeling they may be trying to recapture that balance of offense and defense again. Sakurai said he doesn't plan on making another Melee, but as long as it can maintain the same intensity of gamplay, isn't that really enough?

Thank you very much for that educated and well thought out response.
So tired of just hearing "melee > brawl" without a decent explanation.

I'm a fan of the Smash series, so I love all 3 and put my time into mastering every one.
Each game needs a different strategy to play well, and for a lot of cases (me included) I didn't know how to do wavedashes and l cancels like people who play competitively do. I mean it's a completely different game when you watch them play online and then go play with your friends. But all 3 games are like that.

People mastered Melee in a way to make it extremely competitive. Something that couldn't be done with 64 or Brawl. But those 2 could still be played extremely competitively, just not in that Melee way.

I'm 100% sure the new Smash will have a completely different feel to it, not Brawl's or Melee's, but something different.

I feel most times people who didn't like Brawl are the competitive Melee players who were looking for a carbon copy sequel. Because all my friends love it, we still play it whenever we are all in town from school. And I've been friends with these guys since grade school so we were playing 64 and Melee too. We all played the **** out of them and we all enjoyed them every much.

There was a learning curve from the switch to Brawl, but not nearly as bad as 64 to Melee because of all the new moves they added (side B messed with me). But they never knocked Brawl because it wasn't like Melee. We were all happy to be playing a new Smash game.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's not that people wanted a carbon copy sequel (as was said earlier). Rather, people just wanted a dyanamic and deep game and Brawl, to them, failed to meet those expectations. That's not to say Brawl can't be fun, but long term playing potential is decreased with the missing depth.

I get the whole strategy thing too, but having different strategies doesn't make it better, or worse for that matter.

If anything, Smash 4 needs to return the depth, but also make the learning curve much less steeper with things like making the wavedash with an actual motion in mind or doing something else entirely.

 

[El Duderino]

Melee's praise comes mostly from competitive players, not the fanbase as a whole.

Mind explaining where you are getting this info? What hard evidence is there that the greater Smash fanbase does not commend Melee?

 

[SmashChu]

Mind explaining where you are getting this info? What hard evidence is there that the greater Smash fanbase does not commend Melee?

Because I've been around long enough. The only reason someone might think Brawl was bad and Melee was the best is that the audience who wants more Melee happens to also be the loudest. This opinion isn't shared by the fan base. It depends on who you ask. If you only look here, you'll get the wrong answer. Go to other message board and you'll here Brawl come up more and the people who say Melee will likely say "Brawl sucked and lacked depth" It's actually kind of sad because the people who liked Melee more just cause are drowned out by competitive players whining. Some other fun facts:

1. Brawl sold over 10 million in it's lifetime. 3 million more than Melee
2. Had positive reviews across the board (given, not sure how Melee did)
3. Was the most played Wii game for years (eventually being beaten by Animal Crossing and

 

[El Duderino]

You are getting ahead of yourself here SmashChu. I'm asking you for concrete evidence on the general perception and reception of Melee, not Brawl.

 

[JKJ]

Allow me to start by saying that I love Melee.
Also understand that I love 64, if somewhat less than I love Melee.
But that is not to say that either are better.
I love 64's ridiculous hitstun and insane combos, I love it's crazy DI's, I love it's insane recoveries (64 Mario, I'm looking at you), I love its broken spikes and insane inescapable grabs. I love everything about it. But most of all, I love the change of pace it gives me when I switch from Melee to 64. I think both games are equally as competitive, and equally as awesome, I just happen to find Melee more fun overall.
I don't know what it is, but Melee's intense combos and demanding technical ability makes it so rewarding to play at a high level. I am a person whose entire life revolves around manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination; every major hobby of mine (speed-solving Rubik's cubes, sleight of hand, origami to a lesser extent, and, of course, Melee) incorporates this in some major way. I love the synergy of body and mind acting in perfect conjunction, and I love the human potential in this area. It is as unbelievable to perform a perfectly invisible Classic Pass in magic (if you don't know what it is, here is the master, Jason England, performing it perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXlGUuqsvo) as it is to solve a Rubik's cube in under 30 seconds, and also to play a high-level Melee match. All are extremely demanding and impressive, on both the mind and the body.
N64 Smash was less demanding physically, but just as mentally demanding. This is why I find Melee more engaging.
What I did not like about Brawl was that, though highly mentally demanding, there was little to no physical demand. There was no urgency physically, I felt often sleepy while playing it, as I did not feel engaged at all. For me, if I want a completely mental competition, I will play chess. This is not to invalidate Brawl players or the Brawl competitive scene. They obviously love the game, and they make the tournament scene what it is.
Now, to address the OP:

I do not want a Melee clone. I don't think wavedashing should be in the game. I do, however, want L-canceling of some kind. This was not a fluke thing like wavedashing, it was purposefully put into both of the first two smash games, and I think it should continue to be a part of the series. It rewards technical prowess and mental awareness.

I don't want recovering to be as stupid easy as it was in Brawl. I never felt at risk in Brawl; I was always safe no matter if I was off the stage, on it, or under it. There was no danger; I want the dangerous feeling back. It doesn't have to be as crazy as Melee's edge-game, but something a little more dynamic and risky would be appreciated.

I want faster physics. Melee physics are insanely fast, granted, but somewhere in between the molasses physics of Brawl and the lighting physics of Melee would be fine with me. I'm all in favor of a change in physics, but definitely towards the faster side.

I want balance. I know very dynamic balance is hard to achieve. I know that Melee has ~8 viable tournament characters. But Brawl's laughably unbalanced gameplay turned me off to the game even further. At least make most, if not all of the cast somewhat viable. We want to pick our characters without worrying that we are gettingan unfair advantage or disadvantage.

That's about all I hope to see from Smash 4. I don't want a Melee clone, there will always be Melee and Project: M for that. I just want a game that is reasonably physically demanding and reasonably mentally challenging with a dynamic learning curve. That's my sh** right there.

 

[El Duderino]

Mostly agree, except I really do like wavedashing's application. Fluke or not, I think something similar can progress the gameplay forward. Also, I approve of L-canceling's results but am not married to the execution. Last Brawl can feel pretty dangerous when you're up against a good MK, but yeah.

 

[link2702]

stopped reading the post when the topic creator claimed all characters would become "op'd" just by having melee's physics/techs from melee again.


You have no idea what you're even talking about bluepikmin, do some research on something before you try to talk about it.

 

[JKJ]

@El Duderino
I do love wavedashing, and believe me I would love it to be in SSB4, but I don't see any possible future in which Sakurai actively chooses to put that in the game.

 

[Big-Cat]

@El Duderino
I do love wavedashing, and believe me I would love it to be in SSB4, but I don't see any possible future in which Sakurai actively chooses to put that in the game.

It depends on how its implemented. Looking at Tekken as a reference, we could have a QCF motion for wavedashing forward and a up-back, back motion for a back wavedash (or whatever it'll look like) and neither would be bad with just a little bit of practice. The thing with wavedashing was that it was an unintentional byproduct of Melee's air dodging mechanics. I'm pretty sure the input would be much more user friendly had it been deliberate all along.