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There's no way that dash dancing or foxtrotting is 'accidental'. They were very specifically coded into the game, foxtrots even have very character dependent windows. Smash turn was made so that it can be cancelled into dash specifically on frame 2, so that dashing back quickly is possible. Turn during dash also cancels momentum, which it doesn't do from any other state. The reason for that must be to allow players to instantly change directions during dash and give more freedom of movement.
Fine then, I guess the point I should've tried to make is that there were many techniques that weren't included to make it competitive, they were either to make the game feel better (didn't make that point clear in my first response, though) or techniques that were accidents. Sakurai has since removed nearly all the techniques that were considered competitive in Melee because they developed a competitive scene and he sincerely wants Smash to just be a party game.
A lot of the problems with the older games on 64 and PS1 were with collision detection because the 3D technology was so new that they didn't know they should have made the walls have a thicker hitbox than one or two pixels to ensure nobody could get through, you could cut through connections in the walls where the hitboxes didn't quite meet up, etc.
Haha that's amazing (about the DK64 and MK64 info), so in DK64, the lag would get so bad that the engine would only have collision detection boxes working on like every 4 or 5th frame or something?
If I remember correctly, it would still detect every frame, but you could clip through the walls because they didn't account for how much faster the kongs are when the game is lagging. But DK64 is actually EXTREMELY glitchy and broken, so you can run it in under an hour (53:40 run seen here). The problem with collision detection is explained at around 19:10.
Tbh I didn't. Anything I said is based on others posts here. I didn't have time to read though it all.
Sakurai thinks that beginners wouldn't be able to play a game like Melee and how everything is like a Mountain, where only the strongest and most dedicated of players will be on that mountain playing said game. They don't embrace what Melee did because he wants to make Smash easier to play. This is said all here: http://smashboards.com/threads/saku...titive-players-it-will-have-no-future.384952/
No it isn't. Melee is one of the easiest fighting games out there. Unless you're going competitive, you can have a blast with your friends in minutes! Indeed, when Brawl came out, I remember that my group frequently went back to Melee because even then, we recognized and enjoyed Melee's fast pace compared to Brawl.
What I meant when I said that was if you were going purely competitive, Melee is the hardest. Anyone could casually pick up Melee and play it the way Sakurai tried to do so, and that's fine of course. Melee at it's purest competitive spirit takes one hell of a long time to master.
The words of my brother when he couldn't beat me at Melee or Project M simply because he thought it was very cheap to do Wavedashing and L-canceling and what not. They still add skill to the competitive side of Melee, exploit or not, might I add changed competitive smash as we know it. My possible theory is because players like those haven't been exposed to that kind of competitive play in Smash and never been used to it. Either way, I agree with you. People really need to just stop b**ching that it's an exploit and it shouldn't count in the game. Otherwise, go play Smash 4 if anyone is bothered by it.
Well...duh. Any competitive game takes time to master, but you don't have to put that time in unless you wish. It takes years upon years of work to get good at sports, but that doesn't stop kids from having basketball ball matches in their driveway.
You claim you read the article but fail to understand many of Goldenyumyum's points. He's shown the in-game pointers which hold true even in the metagame, meaning that the developers took care in making the characters's playstyle integral and not too loose. Shield mechanics and such prevent the game from leaning too much toward one type of combat approach, where the sequels are obviously more defense oriented.
C'mon now every single one of your replies was incorrect and bordeline brainwashed.
L-canceling isn't in the Melee manual (it was in N64).
Okay so then you basically just agreed with me. There ya go.
kingPiano
. Of course the developers knew about wls / wds.
It's clear you have no idea how computer programming or game design works. There are global variables and nested object values that can be affected by anything and interact freely (unless you reset them). And if not properly QA'ed they will have unintended or unforeseen results (it's impossible to catch everything). I'm sure you don't know but think about how long it took players to figure out wavedashing. Longer than it takes to find most glitches and exploits from most games, which means it very well could have been missed by the QA team. There have been much more critical game breaking glitches and bugs that have been found days after release of a game... do you think those were intended as well? Those got past their respective QA teams@
The collision and sliding part of wavelanding isn't what's unnatural or accidental, it's a decision of how the chars should interact with ground while airdodging. It's actually the most intuitive way to handle the situation. Think about other possible solutions that avoid sliding: One would be to set velocity to zero when landing. I think that would look very weird, when you hit the ground with very high speed and then suddenly stop for no reason. Other one that comes to mind is to simply have no collisions when airdodging, and let chars just float above the ground until their horizontal movement ceases. I don't see how that would be more natural.
So the real 'glitch' and unnatural thing here is having a directional airdodge in the first place. It's not coincidence that brawl version of airdodge isn't directional one.
And also I find it pretty hard to believe that the development team would have been so incompetent that they didn't test or even think how the airdodge to ground collision they programmed worked in action
Nintendo programmed, QA'ed and released Brawl with MetaKnight as is.....so yea I do believe that Nintendo programmers are pretty stupid. They definitely are clueless about how to balance a fighting game....or any competitive game actually.
Nintendo is the last stop for Quality Control and setting requirements so they are ultimately responsible for everything that ends up in the game and how it turns out. So in order to not have to explain a paragraph every time you just use Nintendo. Any other pedantic points?
lol this is such a terrible example. CPUs don't use more than 1 recovery move. They grab when you start jump squat. They powershield everything. They don't L-cancel. I don't think they ever even run (only dash grabs and dash attack off of the initial dash). They also don't tech. WTH is this example?
