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Megaman mains.. what are we dpimg wrong?

Sneak Sneaks

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Megaman seems not to be respected lately and it seems as he isnt relevant for top players? What is going on? I know the character isnt appealing for his obvious flaws but hardcore Megaman is great! Using his metal blade techs and perfect spacing with pellets he can be a serious threat that deserves at least to be high tier! I encourage you to develop Megaman ahead of his boundaries! Lets make him rise! Lets show him off in tourney! I know together we can do it!
 

DRU192

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I'm not a tourney man (too many real world responsibilities) but what I am is a lab-jockey, I love developing new tech and finding new uses for existing tech. I'll share whatever I find so we can raise the Megaman meta together! :)
 

p1ay6ack

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well, if this thread begs us to show our flaws and what we can improve on. I have a bad habit of challenging moves with super armor or moves that transcend past our normal attack and beat us. I got to stop that habit and find another way (perhaps run away till i get my spacing). I also tend to mis time frame data on my moves, but this could just be wifi
 

Sneak Sneaks

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I'm not a tourney man (too many real world responsibilities) but what I am is a lab-jockey, I love developing new tech and finding new uses for existing tech. I'll share whatever I find so we can raise the Megaman meta together! :)
That is surely one of the best ways to help Megaman mains! Also showing videos of him!
 

Tino

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Like DRU192, I'm not the tournament type of guy either. If you mean like what are our bad habits when you mention what we're doing wrong, I had a bad habit of not using Metal Blades nor Crash Bombers a whole lot, which would often cost me a match. Now, I managed to break that habit and started using those more often but I still have some other ones like going for Spark Shock (up smash) and Flame Blast (down smash) which leaves me open for a beating. Well, that's just me. I mean Mega Man is still an amazing character to play as regardless of whether or not "top players" uses him.
 

Sneak Sneaks

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Im not actually trying to point out your mistakes, Im trying to make a change in what we are doing, Im trying for us to boost our endeavors to make Megaman a more viable character, to boost the flame that will lead to our victory!
 

Red Shirt KRT

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Nothing is wrong with mega man, people are using him wrong.

Mega is not a traditional character by any means so if he plays that way he will get rekt.

Mega has to be played very patiently for the most part, and very smart.

He has all the tools to beat any character that he faces it is just a matter of if the player can use his moves effectively.

Basically you have to use mega like he is used in his original nes games, adapt to what works against your enemy. Most smashers play very much the same way no matter what character their opponent is, mega must adapt.

I will be at a medium size tournament this weekend and will post a link to the stream if anyone wants to watch.
 

Tino

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If we wanna make Mega Man become one of the best, then we just gotta rely on our skills to make him the best. He doesn't have to be tournament worthy for that to happen.
 

Sneak Sneaks

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Nothing is wrong with mega man, people are using him wrong.

Mega is not a traditional character by any means so if he plays that way he will get rekt.

Mega has to be played very patiently for the most part, and very smart.

He has all the tools to beat any character that he faces it is just a matter of if the player can use his moves effectively.

Basically you have to use mega like he is used in his original nes games, adapt to what works against your enemy. Most smashers play very much the same way no matter what character their opponent is, mega must adapt.

I will be at a medium size tournament this weekend and will post a link to the stream if anyone wants to watch.
That will be great, I will really appreciate that. I would especially love to see how you do in top 8.
 

Sneak Sneaks

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If we wanna make Mega Man become one of the best, then we just gotta rely on our skills to make him the best. He doesn't have to be tournament worthy for that to happen.
I want him to be more recognized.
 

p1ay6ack

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Thing is most people are reluctant to switch playstyles in mid match, because we have two different spectrums an agressive Megaman player and a defensive Megaman player. The Megaman players usually have one playstyle and stick to that playstyle throughout a match.

When we are playing an aggressive playstyle and we manage to get the first stock, a mistake that's made is when the aggressive player keeps playing aggressively, and gets their stock taken off in mere moments after their stock lead. The correct way is to seriously just camp the hell outta of your opponent on the 2nd stock. I mean run away and just spam projectiles and frustrate your opp to approach, because I mean They Have To approach. They're losing. They're chasing after our lead. We can't just throw that away.

I know this playstyle is discouraged in hype circles but Sm4sh was designed in a way that rewards defensive play more than agressive play. Look at ZeRo who plays an extremely defensive safe Shiek. Sometimes ZeRo goes in agressive but that's just because Shiek was designed to have safe moves even when Sm4sh says defensive>agression. Unfortunately Megaman doesn't have this same amazing ability.

But we do have a great keep away game. And a very good one at that. We can pretty much keep away a Donkey Kong player just by spacing him out with projectiles. The only thing to be wary about is opponents precise rolling into us when we space projectiles. Precise rolling is when the roll animation gets invicbility frames and goes past our projectiles and they roll into an end lag move from us and punish us. We should read this option and keep a lead.
 
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Megaman36

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I've been playing a lot of Mega Man since launch but one thing that I have been doing a lot recently is using Leaf Shield to be able to get in on opponents and rack up some serious damage though throws or up throw into Air Shooter. I've also noticed that Leaf Shield can also stop some attacks in their tracks leaving them vulnerable for a punish. I posted a match I had from last night showing this off and I think if a Mega Man player that knows what he is doing with Leaf Shield and also adding in the Metal Blade tech, you can make Mega Man far more aggressive then normal....possibly.

 

Red Shirt KRT

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That pika is really bad, leaf shield is good but good players will find a way to get around it, not always though.

I find it really helps us land on the ground again. Some up smashes (yoshi, mario, fox) go through leaf shield but if you airdodge their attack the leaves will hit them out of it
 

Megaman36

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Yeah...but when you play for glory what do you expect? But anyways, I'm wondering if I might be overdoing it on the LS cause I've tried using boost blade and I just can't get it down so I'm trying to use more LS to just have more of an in your face playstyle. It's working for me most of the time but i feel like I need to go out to a smashfest or something to try this against real players and see what I might be doing wrong from an offline perspective.
 

Tino

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I've been playing a lot of Mega Man since launch but one thing that I have been doing a lot recently is using Leaf Shield to be able to get in on opponents and rack up some serious damage though throws or up throw into Air Shooter. I've also noticed that Leaf Shield can also stop some attacks in their tracks leaving them vulnerable for a punish. I posted a match I had from last night showing this off and I think if a Mega Man player that knows what he is doing with Leaf Shield and also adding in the Metal Blade tech, you can make Mega Man far more aggressive then normal....possibly.

Watching this makes me wanna use Leaf Shield more often especially when I'm going for a grab but I'm not gonna overuse it the same way you did. Of course, like Red Shirt said, good players will see through that one.
 

Mega-Spider

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Mega Man is more than viable for tournaments; it's just that his unorthodox style of play keep some away. I see a lot of people go over to strong characters like Captain Falcon and Sheik because of their amazing abilities to combo and rack up damage. Mega Man has to be played as he is in the Classic series and when fighting opponents, imagine fighting Robot Masters. There will be match ups that will resemble Cut Man or Top Man; incredibly easy and whether we play aggressively or defensively, we'll have the match up in the bag. Then there will be match ups like Slash Man or Shadow Man; not impossible, but very difficult and not in our favor.

People like to play characters that can rack up damage quickly, get in there and get in your opponent's faces. Mega Man has to handle things very differently, as his spacing abilities and play style benefit from distancing yourself from your opponent. Heck, top tier characters like Rosalina and Luma and Pikachu don't overshadow Rock because he has tools to combat them (Crash Bomber is a good way to damage Luma and Leaf Shield can counter Pikachu a fair bit). Mega Man needs extreme consistency on how much and how long you play him. Don't play him for a certain amount of time, and he'll feel new again. One thing I do is play any of the Classic Mega Man games (even games like 7 and 8 that handle differently) and keep the mentality of "Patience and pattern reading are the keys to victory." Every opponent has a pattern and your mission is to read that pattern and try to combat it. Rock also needs a couple of buffs as some people have brought up the issues of his moves having too much ending lag along with his killing moves, while effective, take a lot of commitment and are usually unsafe to use.

I don't give up on Mega Man even when I'm not at my best because I just love the series and character too much for me to say "I'm not gonna use you anymore." I have other characters that I play like Kirby and Pit, but Mega Man is the one I feel the most comfortable playing. Besides, I win with him a lot on For Glory, against my friends, and even my sparring partners have expressed how much my Mega Man can put up a fight against them (with my partners being Fox and Rosalina mains respectfully).

To answer the question of the thread, a lot of people aren't taking the time to learn how to use Mega Man properly and don't realize that he wasn't built to be a heavy hitter or a "get in your face" character. I've been playing Mega Man since the day 3DS came out in America and I've been learning more and more stuff with Rock each day, and I'm executing some of those moves. I still may be a little scared to do the Leaf Shield gimp sometimes, but I'll eventually get so used to it, it'll be one of my edgeguarding strats.

If you're dedicated enough with a character, you're going to do great things with them. And believe me, winning with Mega Man is one of the most satisfying things to do in this game, especially with that sweet, sweet victory theme. :)
 

Sneak Sneaks

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To be honest with you, I have been secondarying Marth and Kirby lately.. I think they cover some of Megaman's bad matchups like ZSS, Sheik (well...), Falcon and close range fighters in general.
 

p1ay6ack

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Yeah...but when you play for glory what do you expect? But anyways, I'm wondering if I might be overdoing it on the LS cause I've tried using boost blade and I just can't get it down so I'm trying to use more LS to just have more of an in your face playstyle. It's working for me most of the time but i feel like I need to go out to a smashfest or something to try this against real players and see what I might be doing wrong from an offline perspective.
I wouldnt use the word overuse. Because the times you did use leaf shield, you didn't get punished, and you most of the time came out on top. That's good. The pikachu player couldve played better, but it is what it is. This video just shows us how good leaf shield is and how much we should use it more in our combo strings. I recently found a new way to use leaf shield by having leaf shield up and holding a metal blade, then jumping and throwing the metal blade down, then throwing leaf shield across the stage, then picking up metal blade and throwing metal blade. This sounds like a simple combo that shouldn't work, but It does and its viable, giving us stage control and going for bair reads when our opp gets popped up in the air by leaf shield or metal blade. This does 17% of free damage and its safe
 
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ravemaster47

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Ill.have to try that out. But everyone here has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Megaman cannot play as other roster characters. I have noticed leaf shield bring used more. I use it much more now that it was buffed and it usually helps me approach certain matchups I had problems with before.
 

Sneak Sneaks

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I wouldnt use the word overuse. Because the times you did use leaf shield, you didn't get punished, and you most of the time came out on top. That's good. The pikachu player couldve played better, but it is what it is. This video just shows us how good leaf shield is and how much we should use it more in our combo strings. I recently found a new way to use leaf shield by having leaf shield up and holding a metal blade, then jumping and throwing the metal blade down, then throwing leaf shield across the stage, then picking up metal blade and throwing metal blade. This sounds like a simple combo that shouldn't work, but It does and its viable, giving us stage control and going for bair reads when our opp gets popped up in the air by leaf shield or metal blade. This does 17% of free damage and its safe
Would love to see that mb ls thing
 

Mega-Spider

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Also take into account all the BAD PLAYERS playing MegaMan ruining the chances of him being seen as an actual threat.
Oh man, I cannot tell you the amount of times I've seen Mega Man players either shoot and don't move or throw out F-Smashes like idiots. It makes us Mega Mains look bad.
 
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Sneak Sneaks

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I feel like when someone wants to play with another character because they are bored of using the same they never go for Megaman because how hard he is to master or they do and they play terrible with him
 

Mega-Spider

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I feel like when someone wants to play with another character because they are bored of using the same they never go for Megaman because how hard he is to master or they do and they play terrible with him
Mega Man takes an extreme amount of commitment to get good with. He's not a character that brings in instant results, but rather a character that needs both experimentation and trial and error in order to get results. It's very reminiscent of his series to where it's hard, really hard sometimes, but through experimentation with the Robot Master weapons and trial and error via dying, you'll make it out alive and satisfied.
The main reason why I feel Rock needs buffs (beyond the fact that he needs a couple good buffs), is because it'll encourage more people to play as him. Imagine how many people would jump on Mega Man when they hear that his end lag was decreased, maybe even dramatically decreased. It also comes down to how a lot of people like to go with the characters that get instant results, having their meta developed quickly as opposed to taking months, maybe even years to have their meta developed. Mega Man is a different breed of Smash Bros character; a unique and interesting breed at that, and people aren't using him to his fullest potential. One day, I can imagine him having a lot more (good) representation, and it'll be a glorious day when that happens.
 

CopShowGuy

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People are wising up to some of Mega Man's tricks while finding new one of their own. We're going to have to find something really good to bring Mega Man to the top.
 

Greward

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I believe that super glide toss forward can make Mega Man improve a lot if mastered to the point you can do it consistently.
 

ShiroSSB

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I'm just going to say this now. I used to hate the guy a lot but ever since I started playing him, I admit he is very under developed all because of the fact that he is so projectile based. Mega man has a ton of tools at his disposal and this has most certainly been proven because of players like StylesX2 who are devoted and really encourage people to play him, however it all comes down to just that. Devotion. It's just like peach in a way. You won't be good with her unless you put in the time and sweat to really know her moves, frames, combos and set ups. From fundamentals to reads, it's all the same with Megaman. He's not flawed at all or anything. It's just, people don't really like how he plays because most aren't devoted to him or are motivated by others to play him. Those who are, always end up getting shreked by a sheik main or somebody who can easily destroy a megaman which can put them in a bad mood to play. I have faith in the blue bomber. He's pretty cool and I see him going somewhere in the future. You players who love him, I support ya so give it your all.
 

Sneak Sneaks

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I believe that super glide toss forward can make Mega Man improve a lot if mastered to the point you can do it consistently.
I gave up to that sometime ago (3ds version) but I hope people gets to master it soon and use it on tourneys
 

SanAntonioSmasher

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I have been experimenting a bunch lately with a whole new approach to the blue bomber.

We all know spacing is important, but for the most part mega man players work with their horizontal spacing, ie lemons spacing. Keeping the right distance is hard because of how quickly most characters can run in. Players have figured out what distance mega man likes to be at (mid-range), and how to close that distance.

My new approach is to focus on both horizontal and vertical spacing. I imagine a large bubble around MM, and it is my top priority to keep the opponent out of that zone while in neutral. So, if you cant safely create distance horizontally, then create vertical distance. Remember both his up and down airs are ranged also. Obviously you take advantage of openings for punishes and capitalize on those.

The best tool to help you do this is using rush often, almost to the point of spamming it. Mega man has good air mobility, and with a rush out there are tons of tricks to safely get both metal blades in hand and leaf shield up, such as b-reversing, down throws and catch, up throw and catch after bouncing, etc. Also, having rush out gives you like a constant safety net. Fast fall or dodge into it, and you can get out of danger.

This is very much work in progress. If I can get it down, I might post some replays. I'm not sure how good this is, but at the very least my opponents seem to struggle with how to fight it, and it makes them overly aggressive and easier to punish.
 
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Red Shirt KRT

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Rush def helps you get out of stuff but don't overuse lead shield, good opponents will figure out how to punish it.
 

Mega-Spider

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With this whole new patch update, I've been thinking about where we can and should go from here. This may sound crazy, stupid to some, but we need to improve and fine-tune our offensive game. Yes, I know; Mega Man's offensive game isn't good compared to the majority of the cast, but if we want to still be a threat and be taken seriously, we need to improve our offensive game. Now, I'm not saying to be purely offensive, because that would be stupid. We need to have a balanced game between defensive and offensive play. We can't be too defensive anymore because of the shield nerfs and making every attack safer out of shield, but we can't be too offensive since that goes against how Mega Man is supposed to be play. However, we shouldn't just give up and say that we are now not viable. I went through a depression phase myself for this update, but I'm not going to let this bring me down. In fact, this allows us to experiment more and find new styles to work with. Me personally, I'm toning down some of my defensive gameplay to add to my offensive play. This would make us less predictable, because both styles in both the extreme directions get predictable after a while.
Basically, my message is "Don't get discouraged, my fellow Mega Mains. This change allows us to experiment in a new direction, one that might seem bad at first, but we need to learn to adapt in order to stand a chance." We can do this, guys. We just gotta practice and keep a positive mindset. :)
 

Sneak Sneaks

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With this whole new patch update, I've been thinking about where we can and should go from here. This may sound crazy, stupid to some, but we need to improve and fine-tune our offensive game. Yes, I know; Mega Man's offensive game isn't good compared to the majority of the cast, but if we want to still be a threat and be taken seriously, we need to improve our offensive game. Now, I'm not saying to be purely offensive, because that would be stupid. We need to have a balanced game between defensive and offensive play. We can't be too defensive anymore because of the shield nerfs and making every attack safer out of shield, but we can't be too offensive since that goes against how Mega Man is supposed to be play. However, we shouldn't just give up and say that we are now not viable. I went through a depression phase myself for this update, but I'm not going to let this bring me down. In fact, this allows us to experiment more and find new styles to work with. Me personally, I'm toning down some of my defensive gameplay to add to my offensive play. This would make us less predictable, because both styles in both the extreme directions get predictable after a while.
Basically, my message is "Don't get discouraged, my fellow Mega Mains. This change allows us to experiment in a new direction, one that might seem bad at first, but we need to learn to adapt in order to stand a chance." We can do this, guys. We just gotta practice and keep a positive mindset. :)
I gotta admit I thought about giving Megaman a rest until next update and focus on Kirby (until I saw he also suffered from the shields nerf) but when tou think about it, fair is an attack that has always been there, we can now do retreating fairs to approach and it is pretty safe (I guess) so I won't get discouraged by this but improve my aerial game!
 

Red Shirt KRT

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I thought this was super bad for us but I think we can adjust and remain relatively at the same level.

I'm too far invested into Mega man to switch mains.
 

Mega-Spider

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I thought this was super bad for us but I think we can adjust and remain relatively at the same level.

I'm too far invested into Mega man to switch mains.
It hasn't affected me at all. Yeah, some matches I've had have been more aggressive on the receiving end, but I've been able to adjust to the new shield change by not shielding so much.
 

Red Shirt KRT

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I got to thinking about something that mega mans are really bad at (generally). I was messing around with other characters and was playing as jiggly for a while and was realizing how hard she relies on reads for rest.

I think we need to get better at utilizing Dsmash to punish rolls,whifs, and get ups.

Again don't spam this but actually look for opportunities for it. It has decent range for how powerful it is.
 

Sorichuudo

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I got to thinking about something that mega mans are really bad at (generally). I was messing around with other characters and was playing as jiggly for a while and was realizing how hard she relies on reads for rest.

I think we need to get better at utilizing Dsmash to punish rolls,whifs, and get ups.

Again don't spam this but actually look for opportunities for it. It has decent range for how powerful it is.
We really need to find some use for this thing, but considering that at high percents the opponent can hit us with whatever they feel like should we whiff it, costing us a stock. I usually go for it only if i have a CB on them, or on the hardest of hard reads.
 

Red Shirt KRT

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I'm meaning the hardest of hard reads. We are so focused on chip damage we don't follow opponents tendencies.
 

Sorichuudo

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I'm meaning the hardest of hard reads. We are so focused on chip damage we don't follow opponents tendencies.
True.
How about it for an anti-air? I mean when their percent is high enough for dsmash to kill, i found my opponents trying to approach from the air cause they either have an aerial that has no landing lag/beats slash claw, and are not really affraid of air shooter since it won't kill em. Does flame blast hits a bit above mega(the flames) or is just the lower part that has the strong hitbox? I know i beat a ROB's nair with it once, but i barely use this move so i don't know if it was luck/he mispaced his nair and i actually hit him as he landed.
 
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