Data Mega Man Moveset/Data Discussion

[---]

Please keep all findings, changes, and questions to this thread. Will update the OP as time goes on.

 

[plasticstomach]

So Leaf Shield got buffed at the cost of its versatility.

 

[Dimmy]

fair buffed and has killing power, also he seemed to gained a bit of a kill confirm at higher percents using jumping forward toss of metal blade into bair.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Sooooooooo... Since we found a LOT of stuff already on the Discord server, I thought it'd be nice to share some of them :
Small quirks:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19axRL9HYXBVH4ploqaLtpBUz1SF0cIJxymau3YbwD_8/edit

Spoiler: Frame Data, SimplyChrono

Complete Mega Man frame data (excluding grabs and throws) *note: "U-tilt (platform)" is on Battlefield's platforms

Spoiler: SH Macro Lemons, TriM

Lemon SH Macro Cancel : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d-lSB7A_HOd26RzyiJMjnKnu5HNcGAYH-QbfkPSeZXM/edit?usp=drivesdk

Spoiler: Yet more SH macro stuff

And le famous quote of centuries :

"People who dont main megaman have no clue what theyre talking about." -StaticHAMR, 2018.

And also there's Item Metal Blade -> pretty much everything you could want. And Leaf Shield actually being pretty good.

 

[ENKER]

Oh man! Remember the Z1gma Upper from Smash 4? Jump, down diagonal metal blade to landing Utilt? That combo doesn’t sweet spot connect with Utilt anymore and doesn’t kill well in Ultimate.

But replace Utilt with Dsmash, and you have yourself a solid three hit kill combo! I’m so excited Dsmash is good now, I can’t believe this is now a combo! It kills Mario easy on Battlefield starting at 73% pre-combo (No DI. I’ll be testing this with DI too, I just got excited!)

To land it as a combo, make sure to buffer the Dsmash just before landing, that’s key! :D

Edit: After some testing with DI it seems like a good rule of thumb with this combo is to look for a kill somewhere between 80-90%, depending on rage and the weight of your opponent. Against my friend’s Link, this killed him at 80% when at max rage and 90% with no rage.

 

[Deleted member]

He feels amazing in Ultimate. The increased range on megabuster and charge shot are fantastic, leaf shield seems faster too which I love. I havent played him a whole lot currently but I did play him a lot in 4, hes probably my secondary.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I don’t know how this didn’t blow up after release.

Megaman feels sooooo much stronger in general. Shorthop fairs combo into one another and can kill later on. Better radial coverage, too.

The fact you can run back and Turning Fsmash on a dime without any sort of thumb work is a godsend.

Up air. It connects better. Dair. More range.
Back air. It’s just good, as usual.

Lemons range is nice. They serve their purpose much better when they also serve as a constant measure for the uncharged f smash distance(seems to be).

Landing lag feels like it’s just not a thing anymore. It’s wonderful.

 

[Tornado_Man]

Fair feels so good now. Not only did it gain killpower, but its low landing lag makes it a great spacing tool.

Unsure how I feel about LS, still. I miss the old shenanigans we used to be able to do, plus getting basically free grabs. Though now it does a better job at eating projectiles, and it's so fast.

 

[Nethermoosen]

L

Fair feels so good now. Not only did it gain killpower, but its low landing lag makes it a great spacing tool.

Unsure how I feel about LS, still. I miss the old shenanigans we used to be able to do, plus getting basically free grabs. Though now it does a better job at eating projectiles, and it's so fast.

Leaf shield is pretty good against some characters like Ken and characters with weak projectiles. It also passes through a lot of other projectiles when thrown. Took down a projectile happy K. Rool that way. I ate a crown but it kept him from setting up long enough for me to break his patterns

 

[Erimir]

It seems like the way to use Leaf Shield now is more to run up into the opponent to let the leaves hit and interrupt them, then go into the throw (unless you are long range camping/countering their projectile camping, particularly on FD). It might still be useful for leafstooling or landing, too. But very different from before.

 

[ALADKTSA]

It seems like the way to use Leaf Shield now is more to run up into the opponent to let the leaves hit and interrupt them, then go into the throw (unless you are long range camping/countering their projectile camping, particularly on FD). It might still be useful for leafstooling or landing, too. But very different from before.

I also found the knockback on it is limited. I think it could be used to set up a RAR back air kill at higher percents.

 

[cot(θ)]

The auto-short-hop mechanic seems to interact with lemons in a weird way. I have an impossible time full-hopping out of the short-hop lemon pattern, which makes it tough to jump over projectiles. It's also immensely aggravating to accidentally short-hop when going for a full-hop combo throw follow-up as any character, but it seems particularly bad when going for d-throw bair as Mega Man. I guess that's not as big a deal since fair is buffed, though.

Also, new leaf shield is practically useless for everything it was actually good for in Smash 4. I guess it's buffed for blocking projectiles? But I honestly can't stand playing Mega Man enough to find out because of the auto-short-hop lemon issue.

 

[ForteX]

The auto-short-hop mechanic seems to interact with lemons in a weird way. I have an impossible time full-hopping out of the short-hop lemon pattern, which makes it tough to jump over projectiles. It's also immensely aggravating to accidentally short-hop when going for a full-hop combo throw follow-up as any character, but it seems particularly bad when going for d-throw bair as Mega Man. I guess that's not as big a deal since fair is buffed, though.

Also, new leaf shield is practically useless for everything it was actually good for in Smash 4. I guess it's buffed for blocking projectiles? But I honestly can't stand playing Mega Man enough to find out because of the auto-short-hop lemon issue.

I'm having the same issue with the short hop thing. The auto-shorthop makes it very hard to do shorthopped lemon into ftilt, but conversely makes it easy to go from ftilt to shorthopped lemon for that sweetspot. My biggest issue right now is getting charge shots when I just want to ftilt - I hate the stick sensitivity so much. No matter what I put it on, it's too high.

For what it's worth, I haven't had any success blocking projectiles with Leaf Shield. Everything I've come into contact with goes right through it. Poor knockback and no viable options out of it really make it another worthless piece of Mega Man's kit.

 

[Erimir]

So far I'm having more success using Leaf Shield close up than at range. When you're against a projectile character it works against, you can toss it out to cancel their projectiles and hit them back, but it doesn't seem too effective otherwise.

But landing with it, getting a few circling hits and then tossing it at point-blank seems ok. I'm not sure it leads to anything, but it gets a little damage and gets them off you. Now, if you could grab out of it again, it would be amazingly better than Smash 4 LS...

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'm having the same issue with the short hop thing. The auto-shorthop makes it very hard to do shorthopped lemon into ftilt, but conversely makes it easy to go from ftilt to shorthopped lemon for that sweetspot. My biggest issue right now is getting charge shots when I just want to ftilt - I hate the stick sensitivity so much. No matter what I put it on, it's too high.

For what it's worth, I haven't had any success blocking projectiles with Leaf Shield. Everything I've come into contact with goes right through it. Poor knockback and no viable options out of it really make it another worthless piece of Mega Man's kit.

This game is looking like c-stick for tilts is de wei.

You can set sensitivity to high and never miss a freaking smash attack to save your life barring some surprise frame data.

We should really be giving c-tilt a chance because it can also be used to extend tilt range out of dash as IzawSmash has let the community know with the help of his friend.

If you don’t know, you can run(not dash, but run) then at the very beginning of the running turn around, input a tilt to retain momentum.

With a technique like that, I can’t justify using c-stick for smashes. And as an Olimar player, I will miss it. Haha.

 

[Erimir]

I'm trying to make the switch to tilt-stick because I can do a dash, turnaround f-tilt with tilt-stick pretty much fine. But if I try to do it with the left stick, I end up doing a smash or a dash instead unless I slow down my inputs and then it's too slow to be useful*

*Well, more accurately, with my other Smash 4 main it's too slow, because Mega Man's pellets are ranged it might still be useful, but WFT trying to run up and get the back hit of f-tilt is a lot less useful if it's slow...

 

[ENKER]

How about this? :D
https://twitter.com/enkersmash/status/1075764250516316160?s=21
I’m loving Dsmash in this game!

 

[DaleAM]

Mega man has gotten some serious buffs to his kit! His u-tilt has been sped up a ton, I feel like Luigi now sprinting up close when I see an opening and launching them into space. And it seems that a lot of people don't know his u-air can carry them out of the stage, I've been getting a lot of kills with that one without much resistance. Those two moves along with his foreward smash and f-air buffs have made mega man a killing machine!

 

[DCavalier]

Does anybody knows if U-tilt still has those I-frames ?
FSmash is great for edgeguarding characters without reflectors since it seems that it travels farther and faster now.

Short-Hop pellets have become easier imo due to the new mechanics.
Metal Blade is still awesome and is still pretty much the BnB of Mega along with pellets.
Crash Bomber is great, the explosions seem to be bigger and if the opponent is in the air they will have to take the hit or airdodge.

I still can't find a way to properly use Leaf Shield because it is so weird now.

Only had trouble against Lucina, racking damage up is not a problem because we can harass her with all our projectiles but getting in for the kill is hard because her aerials are larger and faster than ours.

Also trying to edgeguard her with anything else than Dair when she recovers low is pretty risky since she can just Up-B and stage spike us if we miss the tech and at high percents you can't tech it.

All in all Megaman feels faster and stronger in almost every way we only have to find a way around our worst matchups and we golden.

 

[Erimir]

Something I've noticed about Crash Bomber is that in cases where it doesn't stick to the opponent, there are more situations where it will explode and damage them. In particular, I've seen it instantly explode on the opponent sometimes when I shoot it while recovering and it hits at the edge of the stage. Does it work like a proximity mine now if it's attached to the stage?

 

[cot(θ)]

Short-Hop pellets have become easier imo due to the new mechanics.

It is much easier. In fact, it's almost impossible to full-hop out of the short hop lemon pattern, even when you want to. So not really a buff, imo. The auto-shorthop screws me over much more as Mega Man than as any other fighter.

 

[Erimir]

Something I've noticed about Crash Bomber is that in cases where it doesn't stick to the opponent, there are more situations where it will explode and damage them. In particular, I've seen it instantly explode on the opponent sometimes when I shoot it while recovering and it hits at the edge of the stage. Does it work like a proximity mine now if it's attached to the stage?

After testing this in training mode, I can confirm that if Crash Bomber sticks to the stage, it explodes if an opponent touches it or is sufficiently close (not sure how close they need to be, but it can be that Mega Man is between the opponent and a wall and it will instantly explode if the opponent is about as close to the wall as possible in that situation, so it has some range beyond literally touching it).

If Mega Man touches it, it will not explode until the timer runs out. I double checked and this is different from how it worked in Smash 4.

This means if the opponent is sitting all the way at the edge while you recover, if you can aim it just right to hit the very edge of the stage, it will explode immediately. Also perhaps makes Crash Bomber more useful on stages with slopes?

This seems like an overall buff, although I suppose it does mean that you'll get hit by the explosion in some situations where you wouldn't have before...

 

[ENKER]

After testing this in training mode, I can confirm that if Crash Bomber sticks to the stage, it explodes if an opponent touches it or is sufficiently close (not sure how close they need to be, but it can be that Mega Man is between the opponent and a wall and it will instantly explode if the opponent is about as close to the wall as possible in that situation, so it has some range beyond literally touching it).

If Mega Man touches it, it will not explode until the timer runs out. I double checked and this is different from how it worked in Smash 4.

This means if the opponent is sitting all the way at the edge while you recover, if you can aim it just right to hit the very edge of the stage, it will explode immediately. Also perhaps makes Crash Bomber more useful on stages with slopes?

This seems like an overall buff, although I suppose it does mean that you'll get hit by the explosion in some situations where you wouldn't have before...

I love the new Crash Bomber! I love landing it on the edge as I make my return to the stage, it can limit the ways my opponent can edge guard me since it’s basically a proximity mine now (when latching on the stage).

 

[DCavalier]

It is much easier. In fact, it's almost impossible to full-hop out of the short hop lemon pattern, even when you want to. So not really a buff, imo. The auto-shorthop screws me over much more as Mega Man than as any other fighter.

I had the same problem with lemons and the Short-hop nair and kicks from Zelda.
But yesterday I found a way to consistently input one or the other it comes down to timing at the end tho.

What I do is:
- If i want a Short-hop aerial I use the +
- If I want a Full-hop aerial I roll my thumb from to

Still requires a little practice to get it down but it works for me.
Maybe it can help you.

 

[Erimir]

Some interesting use of Leaf Shield in this match (well, at least in the first two games, it's kind of long so I haven't watched all of it)

Also would probably be useful to compile the interactions of Mega Man's projectiles with opponents' somewhere, but seems like that's hard to test without a second person. Like, what projectiles can Leaf Shield block as a shield, and which ones can it destroy when thrown, etc.?

 

[Rush 2112]

I'm a little late to the game, got it a few days ago. But here's a few things I've noticed so far:

After pressing upB, when you come back down for a bounce on Rush you can press downward airdodge(right as/after you bounce) to cancel the bounce entirely and land on the ground. It's a nice fake out.

You can no longer do falling Uair after full hop Fair. Not a big deal but unfortunate.

I used to sync my taunt with Rush disappearing so we both "teleported" at the same time. Used to be if you press upB, land, and mash taunt they would be in sync. Now you have to wait until Rush stops shaking his head to sync your taunt. *VERY IMPORTANT*

One time I landed a CB and they blocked. I got in their face and parry'd the explosion so I was able to utilt while they were still in shield. I'm not sure if this is in any way useful, but maybe? If their shield is already low and your opponent tends to block the CB, you could get a shield break. Or at least get them to do something other than block, which is more likely to lead to a mistake. Although it's safer to simply throw a Fsmash while they block.

-------------------------------------------------

Other than that I'm doing my best to find more uses for LS. In Smash4 I made it a big part of my gameplan, so I find myself doing it out of habit now whenever it's safe. Not being able to airdodge or block sucksssss. Then I usually get hit or get stuck in lag cause I expect it to vanish. But, I've been having some success using it as an approach pressure tool. As soon as you get the first hit in, the rest are pretty much guaranteed. So if you have it up you can just walk up to them, get the hit and let the rest fly. If they block, then you run away and throw it back at them, to keep the pressure on. With practice and timing, this is actually pretty strong. Especially against certain characters. Someone was avoiding all my other stuff, so I started spamming LS and zoning him, approaching when he was wide open(after attacks or on landings), and got him up to 70% without taking a hit.

As a ledge guard it has it's uses. If you read a roll, just walk over to where they will be and you caught them. It can prevent ledge grabbing sometimes. Plus it still dips below the ledge, so a throw from mid stage is still a great long range ledge guard option. They usually don't expect it at all, and don't think it will hit below the ledge.

How come nobody is talking about pellets doing 2.some damage? For me this is probably the best buff he got! A heavy pellet game is rewarded even more now, and with the new range it's pretty rockin'.

Also, I noticed right away that pivot pellets don't work as they did in Smash4. Which is a shame because that was an amazing spacing tool. Now, I haven't read/seen all the tech and game mechanics, so maybe this is already known but I found a way to do quick pivot pellets. If you do it the normal way, run back and immediately press opposite direction and attack you get Fsmash. If you delay the opposite direction, you kind of get a pivot pellet, but he sticks his arm the wrong way THEN turns around to shoot. But if you dash, let the dash finish, and (this part is a little fuzzy) if you press down then the opposite direction, MM will turn around while he still has momentum and immediately do the pellet the way you want it. I think maybe you need to let the stick go to neutral in there somewhere. Is this known?

 

[Next Door Dog]

I used to sync my taunt with Rush disappearing so we both "teleported" at the same time. Used to be if you press upB, land, and mash taunt they would be in sync. Now you have to wait until Rush stops shaking his head to sync your taunt. *VERY IMPORTANT*

I used to do this too, too bad taunts are disabled in quickplay. It really shows that Rush Coil has much less landing lag, though I still land with nair out of habit.

Also, I noticed right away that pivot pellets don't work as they did in Smash4. Which is a shame because that was an amazing spacing tool. Now, I haven't read/seen all the tech and game mechanics, so maybe this is already known but I found a way to do quick pivot pellets. If you do it the normal way, run back and immediately press opposite direction and attack you get Fsmash. If you delay the opposite direction, you kind of get a pivot pellet, but he sticks his arm the wrong way THEN turns around to shoot. But if you dash, let the dash finish, and (this part is a little fuzzy) if you press down then the opposite direction, MM will turn around while he still has momentum and immediately do the pellet the way you want it. I think maybe you need to let the stick go to neutral in there somewhere. Is this known?

What I had been doing was pressing down like you say (I do a quarter circle roll down but I don't think it makes a difference) and tilt the opposite direction on the c-stick (set to tilts) and then finish the pellet string with the A button. But now that I look at it he does face the other way before turning around and shooting. What I think is best is to try a half circle roll and then shoot (so running right roll the stick from the right to left). This works for his other tilts, too. There's still a matter of timing since you can still get the same issue of him pointing the wrong way but so far it's the most consistent for me.

 

[TriforceBun]

Hey guys--

I do pretty well online with Mega Man, particularly in building up damage, but I struggle landing the coup de grace. I'll often lose in battles where I've outdamaged the opponent by 100+ because they'll be alive at like 160% or something.

What are Mega Man's best KO options? Utilt seems risky, particularly when both characters are at high damage levels. Bair is nice but I often can't land the very last strike (which is the one with all the power). I'm not used to using Fair to KO because of SSB4; it seems stronger, but is it a viable option prior to 150% or so? What do you guys rely on?

 

[DCavalier]

Hey guys--

I do pretty well online with Mega Man, particularly in building up damage, but I struggle landing the coup de grace. I'll often lose in battles where I've outdamaged the opponent by 100+ because they'll be alive at like 160% or something.

What are Mega Man's best KO options? Utilt seems risky, particularly when both characters are at high damage levels. Bair is nice but I often can't land the very last strike (which is the one with all the power). I'm not used to using Fair to KO because of SSB4; it seems stronger, but is it a viable option prior to 150% or so? What do you guys rely on?

On stage ( percentages may vary depending on weight class, assume midweights like swordies) :
- Back-air at 100%
- F-air at 130%
- Up-air at 120%
- Backthrow at 130% near the ledge.
- F-Smash for ledge-trapping and catching landings ( Especially against opponents that used their second Jump and don't have reflectors )

Off stage:
- Back-air
- F-air
- D-air for opponents that recover low like

Also, something that I noticed but haven't seen people mention is that, it seems that you can mess the tether recoveries of chars like by obstructing their "line of sight ".

 

[TriforceBun]

Thanks. Looks like it's time to practice my aerials and offstage game.

 

[DCavalier]

I forgot to mention a string that I have been pulling off consistently at around 100% on every character I have tried it on QuickPlay.

- Smash-Throw Metal Blade into F-Smash.

If the Metal Blade hits them, it lifts them just enough to not be able to shield the F-Smash on time.
They might be able to jump out of it, but due to the fast nature of the hit from the Metal Blade and the low height it sends they most likely will try to shield on reaction and buffer an airdodge.

If they jump then they won't have a 2 jump and you can push on the offensive with B-air or F-air.
Just beware of disjoints and remember to space it properly just in case they try to punish a failed F-Smash.

 

[SneakOak]

I need feedback on this battle, how could I do it better?

Also on this one

 

[DCavalier]

: is one of the hardest characters to play against but what I saw was:
- You kept rolling too much, almost every time Pichu hit your shield you rolled back
- You spot dodge a lot against multi-hit moves
- Lack of MetalBlade usage
- Lack of ItemBlade usage, this is one of the best tools Megaman has, you should find a way to include it in your gameplan
- Some instances of unsafe Fair on shield that got you punished with a multihit move from Pichu
- Full hop Up airs that didn't hit and got you punished.
- Leaf Shield was not used in the safest way, you sometimes failed to connect but didn't retreat to avoid getting punished from the end lag
- Unsafe Pellet usage, there were some instances in which you used Standing Triple Pellet, against heavies or slow chars is not that much of a problem, but this is Pichu, it can easily jump over the pellets and punish you if you miss the first one and keep shooting while standing still.
To correct this I would say, practice jumping single Pellets as in you short hop the before landing shoot a pellet and then keep jumping back and forth while mixing the pellet shot.
Ex.
- Short Hop right
- Pellet Shot
- Short Hop left
- No Pellet
- Short Hop right double Pellet

Regarding Jumping Pellets, you remember the Macro Cancel tech that we lost on the 2.0 update ?
Well, if you mastered the Inputs you can use these same inputs to do a Double Pellet Shot with a single input.
It works the same as the Macro Cancel but instead of a Special you simply keep holding the to buffer the second pellet shot after canceling the first one with the jump ( whoever made that comment in one of the threads I thank thee ).

Inputs:
- for pellet and keep holding it
- on the first frames after the pellet while holding
- You should have a second pellet come out at max short hop height
This basically creates a small wall of pellets because you have one at floor level and one at max short hop height.

Basically:
- Keep in mind how safe or unsafe your options are
- Fix your rolling habits
- Optimize your tool usage
- Include some or all of the tools you are not using like ItemBlade.

I will get to Ike later.
You guys are free to correct any info I might have had gotten wrong.

 

[DCavalier]

: yIKEs. This guy knew Megaman's weaknesses and capitalized in the fact that you couldn't adapt.
- The biggest problem in this one is that habit of Rolling and air dodging you have.
Every single time Ike Nair'ed you, you kept going for the same air dodge.
He caught up really fast and kept punishing you.
- Practice Parrying, it will help on this MU a lot.
- You had a perfect opportunity to U-tilt after that parry but instead you rolled..
- You stopped using pellets.
- You used random FSmashes, that maybe were missed inputs ?
- Leaf shield can maybe help here to rack up damage since characters like Ike can't escape from Leaf Shield once caught.
- Try to use more Aerial Metal Blades that way you can have a MB come out and be able to move away a little to be less open to a punish.
- ItemBlade would be helpful in this MU since it gives you a second fast option after using it that you could use to win some of the aerial exchanges you had.

I don't know what else to add.

 

[SneakOak]

: is one of the hardest characters to play against but what I saw was:
- You kept rolling too much, almost every time Pichu hit your shield you rolled back
- You spot dodge a lot against multi-hit moves
- Lack of MetalBlade usage
- Lack of ItemBlade usage, this is one of the best tools Megaman has, you should find a way to include it in your gameplan
- Some instances of unsafe Fair on shield that got you punished with a multihit move from Pichu
- Full hop Up airs that didn't hit and got you punished.
- Leaf Shield was not used in the safest way, you sometimes failed to connect but didn't retreat to avoid getting punished from the end lag
- Unsafe Pellet usage, there were some instances in which you used Standing Triple Pellet, against heavies or slow chars is not that much of a problem, but this is Pichu, it can easily jump over the pellets and punish you if you miss the first one and keep shooting while standing still.
To correct this I would say, practice jumping single Pellets as in you short hop the before landing shoot a pellet and then keep jumping back and forth while mixing the pellet shot.
Ex.
- Short Hop right
- Pellet Shot
- Short Hop left
- No Pellet
- Short Hop right double Pellet

Regarding Jumping Pellets, you remember the Macro Cancel tech that we lost on the 2.0 update ?
Well, if you mastered the Inputs you can use these same inputs to do a Double Pellet Shot with a single input.
It works the same as the Macro Cancel but instead of a Special you simply keep holding the to buffer the second pellet shot after canceling the first one with the jump ( whoever made that comment in one of the threads I thank thee ).

Inputs:
- for pellet and keep holding it
- on the first frames after the pellet while holding
- You should have a second pellet come out at max short hop height
This basically creates a small wall of pellets because you have one at floor level and one at max short hop height.

Basically:
- Keep in mind how safe or unsafe your options are
- Fix your rolling habits
- Optimize your tool usage
- Include some or all of the tools you are not using like ItemBlade.

I will get to Ike later.
You guys are free to correct any info I might have had gotten wrong.

I've tried to implement the sh double pellet but on characters like DK I've got punished because they grab me after the 2nd or 3rd pellet, they grab me after the sh

 

[SneakOak]

How would you suggest me to use leafshield? In what moment?

: yIKEs. This guy knew Megaman's weaknesses and capitalized in the fact that you couldn't adapt.
- The biggest problem in this one is that habit of Rolling and air dodging you have.
Every single time Ike Nair'ed you, you kept going for the same air dodge.
He caught up really fast and kept punishing you.
- Practice Parrying, it will help on this MU a lot.
- You had a perfect opportunity to U-tilt after that parry but instead you rolled..
- You stopped using pellets.
- You used random FSmashes, that maybe were missed inputs ?
- Leaf shield can maybe help here to rack up damage since characters like Ike can't escape from Leaf Shield once caught.
- Try to use more Aerial Metal Blades that way you can have a MB come out and be able to move away a little to be less open to a punish.
- ItemBlade would be helpful in this MU since it gives you a second fast option after using it that you could use to win some of the aerial exchanges you had.

I don't know what else to add.

 

[DCavalier]

I've tried to implement the sh double pellet but on characters like DK I've got punished because they grab me after the 2nd or 3rd pellet, they grab me after the sh

The only way they could grab you is if you are way too close to them and they should not be able to grab you if you are doing the retreating SH Pellet.
Maybe proper pellet spacing is another issue.
Or maybe you are trying to get in on the opponent while doing the SH Pellets and the last pellet you shot is a Grounded pellet, this one does leave you quite exposed and that is why imo whenever you are too close to the opponent it is better that the last pellet shot is always a Jump Pellet because you have that extra hit box that sends them away and even if it doesn't hit you can still move away because you are jumping.

On the Ike LS thing:
Maybe that was not a good advice because any Ike aerial can hit you out of LS.
However I have found success in using it whenever Ike shield is on the low side.
For example:
- Crash Bomber attached to Ike
- Ike shields explosion
- LS into shielding Ike for poking

LS also pushes people of ledges and forces them to tech or be locked for additional damage.

It is very situational I agree, you may or may not want to use it, I guess it depends on your opponent and if you can force him onto those situations.

 

[SneakOak]

The only way they could grab you is if you are way too close to them and they should not be able to grab you if you are doing the retreating SH Pellet.
Maybe proper pellet spacing is another issue.
Or maybe you are trying to get in on the opponent while doing the SH Pellets and the last pellet you shot is a Grounded pellet, this one does leave you quite exposed and that is why imo whenever you are too close to the opponent it is better that the last pellet shot is always a Jump Pellet because you have that extra hit box that sends them away and even if it doesn't hit you can still move away because you are jumping.

On the Ike LS thing:
Maybe that was not a good advice because any Ike aerial can hit you out of LS.
However I have found success in using it whenever Ike shield is on the low side.
For example:
- Crash Bomber attached to Ike
- Ike shields explosion
- LS into shielding Ike for poking

LS also pushes people of ledges and forces them to tech or be locked for additional damage.

It is very situational I agree, you may or may not want to use it, I guess it depends on your opponent and if you can force him onto those situations.

How can you edgeguard as MegaMan? For example, Dk is coming back and he goes to the ledge quick enough so the down air doesn't touch him, how could I wait for him on the ledge?

 

[DCavalier]

How can you edgeguard as MegaMan? For example, Dk is coming back and he goes to the ledge quick enough so the down air doesn't touch him, how could I wait for him on the ledge?

Dair is the best option against DK because of his telegraphed recovery.
But I have seen with my eyes how sometimes Dair clanks with DK's Up-B or Peach's Up-Air, it sucks but it happens.

Besides Dair, there's are some other options I use against heavies or chars with floaty jumps like Ness or Mewtwo:
If for some reason your opponent jumps before Up-Bing you can:
- Pellet them and if he is close enough to the ledge, he won't be able to grab the ledge after some time passes, that gives you time to go for a Dair.
- You can Full charge shot if you they are recovering from above to catch a landing or to catch an Up-B that is coming at ground level.

If you are standing at the ledge against DK :
- Metal Blade diagonally and then on hit try a Dair.
- Jump out there and Back air or Fair, might only work if he isn't Up-Bing .
- Jump out there and Double or Triple pellet, this might only work if he isn't Up-Bing because that attack beats pellets but you can actually stop him if you hit his feet.

- Throw a LS and react accordingly, since he has a big body he will either:
- Take the hit, and then you can follow with Charge Shot or Bair.
- Jump above it, and the you can wait for a landing with a charge shot, go out there and Bair or Jump pellet.
- Go below it, and you can fish for that Dair.

But honestly I think Dair is the best option since it the one that doesn't put you in danger, can easily take DK stock.
I agree that sometimes it seems hard to land it but the farther DK is from the Stage the easier it becomes to land.

 

[SneakOak]

Any tips vs Fox or Mario? Or should I just go ahead and use Wolf for that?