Me playing Roy. Please give suggestions.

[MattTheGameFreak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM470ybqgfE

What are your thoughts? Raise the bar for me or keep it as is. Of course, I will gradually raise it as I play in the near future. [Stopped playing Melee a lot for two or so years in the Gamecube age to a degree.] If you have any training methods to share to excel skill, feel free to tell me as I'm always willing to become better.

Feel free to say whatever you want... o.0

 

[thaxceptional1]

you have a lot to learn my friend

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

you have a lot to learn my friend

Explain, if you will.

 

[Summit^]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749

Matt, look at the thread I posted above... It explains all the advanced techniques for smash bros (which I won't bother getting into right now).

Along with this thread, watch the advanced how to play video by Wak (it's really helpful).

Besides learning advanced techniques, watch other player's matches (preferably pros) and learn from them.

I hope that this helps... and good luck =)

 

[handsockpuppet]

wow...just wow. sheeeeeeeesh.

what to do more of: wavedashing, wavelanding, SHFFLS, mindgames, Dtilt, grabs, short hops, Dthrow Fsmash and other settups for Fsmash, dash dance, DED, Uairs, nairs, Fairs, and get better opponents ROFL

what not to do: dash attack, Utilt, Dairs, single jumps, double jumps, Dsmash, Usmash, obvious edgeguarding, chargind smashes (especially Fsmash), and overruse of taunt LOL.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

wow...just wow. sheeeeeeeesh.

what to do more of: wavedashing, wavelanding, SHFFLS, mindgames, Dtilt, grabs, short hops, Dthrow Fsmash and other settups for Fsmash, dash dance, DED, Uairs, nairs, Fairs, and get better opponents ROFL

what not to do: dash attack, Utilt, Dairs, single jumps, double jumps, Dsmash, Usmash, obvious edgeguarding, chargind smashes (especially Fsmash), and overruse of taunt LOL.

Umm... Why do all that when you can get to the point and kill your opponent? 0.o

Also, your list of tips doesn't help much. Why should I perform all of these and why should I not do all those? The moveset I used works a great majority of the time. EXPLAIN, MAN!

P.S. -Do you have any videos of yourself playing Melee? If so, I'd like to see them.

 

[NinjaRooster]

It works great against the people you'll used to playing. The point is you're going to need most of those techniques to stand a chance against more experienced players. Trust me, you'll need it.

 

[Airo]

i love the music <3
dont remember where its from ....

you DO have alot to learn.
in short, ssbm is about tecnique, mindgame, and experience.

you have yet to learn advance tecniques. learning advance tecniques increase your character's speed and increasing your amount of options during battle. (example, if you dont know how to wavedash, its difficult to execute a smash attack immediately after moving)

mindgame generally means, understanding your opponent's movement enough to predict, trick, and punish. humans do not move like computers at all. computers are static, they charge strait towards you and attack when they get close enough. the mindgame you developed, rolling behind your opponent, will not work against humans.

experience tells you what usually works and what doesnt, whether it is in comboing or DIing. again, the experience you developed only works on computers.

when people post that you have alot to learn, it means that when you are put up against good human players, you wont stand a chance.

i can elaborate more or analyze the way you played in ur video if you wish.

and repeat. Playing humans are absolutely completely different from playing computers.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Yes, Airo. Please elaborate as I'm very interested in what more you have to say. You given me the best and most indepth response all day.

I play against human players and generally, it works. Maybe my friends suck and maybe they don't. They are above the skill level of a level 9 and are human, yet, I can still do what I did in the video to them. Based on tournaments, I have no tournament information of any tournaments nearby. I live in IL., so that may limit it down as far as tournament opporunties.

 

[handsockpuppet]

Umm... Why do all that when you can get to the point and kill your opponent? 0.o

Also, your list of tips doesn't help much. Why should I perform all of these and why should I not do all those? The moveset I used works a great majority of the time. EXPLAIN, MAN!

P.S. -Do you have any videos of yourself playing Melee? If so, I'd like to see them.

first off, the reason why you don't get to the point and kill is because if you play like you do now, then the first person you meat at a tournament will definitely crush you like a fly. here are the main problems with your play style.

1) although this stuff may work on a computer, you really need to damage the opponent before you can go in for the kill.

2)the simple combos you do can be DIed out of, and the laggy moves you choose may be punished.

3) your too predictable. if a real person were playing you, then they'd dodge the dash attacks and Fsmashes and then combo you to death.

4) you give away your weaknesses. jumping and double jumping up and using the dair is like a chicken flying in front of a gun and saying "look at me". using the slow and laggy dash attack is like randomly shooting a bullet and missing.

i would be able to comment more but do to the sucky computer I can only critique your offensive strategy. I'll explain all the "what to do, and what not to do" things later.

 

[Zankoku]

Illinois? You might want to check out the Midwest regional boards, over here. Hell, viperboy's even hosting the Midwest Circuit championship event in Charleston, IL. You can find his thread here.

You were taking advantage of an awful lot of AI stupidities in that video. For instance, only computers will not do ANYTHING about a charged smash. Edgeguarding with a charged dsmash should rarely, if ever, work on humans with a brain. Edgeguarding with Flare Blade is a little better, but only computers will consistently fall into it.

You kept full hop-double jumping. Do less of that, Roy has enough troubles getting back to the stage as it is, and you don't want to be short a double jump when you get knocked off. Learn some advanced techniques, as you definitely need to work on a lot of technical skill. Specifically for Roy, shorthopping and fastfalling will be crucial. L-Canceling is a must for any and every character in the game, so be sure to practice that, as it halves lag of all your aerials when you land before they end.

Also, Roy's dashdance game is very good, and his grab has some respectable range too. However, you won't be able to practice the uses and applications of dashdancing against CPUs, so try to get some more games in against your friends.

I might write more later, but for now I'm lazy again.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Hmm... Do you guys mind giving me links to Youtube videos that explain all these techniques as I obviously didn't use them in which means, I probably don't fully understand them.

I probably could find videos of these techniques myself but I imagine you guys are much more adept to knowing where to find these videos.

Based on tournaments, Charleston is way way way too far. If I recall where Charleston is... I'm about a 70-90 miles south or so.

On a side note, without even using these techniques, didn't I do at all decent in consideration that I've never played a single person who fully understands or fully uses all the super "advanced" moves?

 

[Zankoku]

Don't compare yourself to failure, it still only means you're failure. You need to compare yourself to win, so you can see what you need to do to achieve win.

Roy Video thread here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=80353

 

[Black Waltz]

just search youtube for wak's advanced tech videos. anyhow, if you want to get better and go to tournies to pwn some people, its best for you to learn advanced techs. wavedashing is not an ABSOLUTE essential for roy, but it helps ALOT for mindgames and with movement. shffl is definitely an essential to roy. although his aerials are generally terrible, they compensate for roy's lack of an effective dash attack. you roll wayyyy to much, so much that it hurts my eyes; if you played someone decent, they would punish you for that. you seem to have the basics down pretty much, so learning these advanced techs shouldn't be too difficult for you.

 

[handsockpuppet]

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE

this is just part one of Wak's videos i'd suggest seeing all of them. this is where i learned advanced techniques and it's a very good watch.

 

[Airo]

You really need to realize how BIG and complex the world of smash is as well as how GOOD players can actually get.

Heres my story; im sure we all have similar stories of how we started out.

Ive always been THE top player amoung my school friends. I played with my school friends in hongkong, then played with friends in canada. i was absolutely unbeatable.
Out of pure interest in the game cause i loved it so much, i found smash boards.
local top ranking players around my area send me messages and invited me to join their group and fun.


So i went to their house. Found 10 other smashers there. and found that i could not land a single hit on ANYONE. i was constantly 4 stocked.
i simply could not move when they started a combo one me, because i didnt know how to DI
my attacks did not hit, because they saw right through them
of the rare times i hit, my comboes dont go beyond 1 hit cause they know how to DI and escape them.
It just seemed impossible to do anything. I was crushed by every player in that house.
(this was 2 years ago)


and heres is a video i made 2 years ago.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wVVD5K_J1rM
its much similar to yours; me vs computers.
but you could also check out my other videos and see just how different it is to play at a more 'advance' level.

 

[handsockpuppet]

yah, it takes skill to play Mewtwo well. and i bet it was the same story with you. you played a lot and beat all your computers and friends, but you didn't realize how weak you were compared to the rest of the smash world. some of the things in matt's video made me think, "if I were there, I could just DI and then Fsmash."

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Thanks for the all the helpful comments and suggestions... This has given me a reason to hook up Gamecube to the TV next to the computer. Since I don't want to go 30 feet away from the computer downstairs to Wii while trying to learn from videos, what you guys say and so forth.

Its hard though to an extent to learn all of this... How long did it take you guys to learn wavedashing, so forth?

 

[5150]

matt dont listen tot hese jerks you are ****ing amazing if i met you in rl id prob **** my pants cuz i was too scared to play you

 

[edgeswipe21]

well this is prolly already mentioned but i didnt take the time to check: Learn advanced techniques such as L-cancel, wavedash, and SHFFL. Umm.. a bit of advice, on fast fallers, such as fox, roy can combo by chain grabbing to SHFFL u-air to f smash. I find the combo very useful.

Edit: I found a good reference, neo: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bde1Igr7tfE

 

[handsockpuppet]

Thanks for the all the helpful comments and suggestions... This has given me a reason to hook up Gamecube to the TV next to the computer. Since I don't want to go 30 feet away from the computer downstairs to Wii while trying to learn from videos, what you guys say and so forth.

Its hard though to an extent to learn all of this... How long did it take you guys to learn wavedashing, so forth?

well there's a thing called internet channel...oh nevermind.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

matt dont listen tot hese jerks you are ****ing amazing if i met you in rl id prob **** my pants cuz i was too scared to play you

Are you serious? While I can stand my ground quite well, amazing well in some cases against those who do not use these advanced techniques, I don't know if I could stand against those that do. However, I've never played anyone who has in my recent memory. Maybe I would stand a chance by adaptation and maybe I wouldn't... o.0

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

I'm working on new advanced techniques and while, I haven't perfected any of them yet. I've noticed an immense speed on my combos, though I'm not intentionally trying to do any of the techniques. Though, I repeated most of them shown in video, over ten times. It might be half instrinct at the moment, I can't seemingly just call it out, I just do what I do.

Anyway... Although not recommended, when I'm playing against computers. When I'm practicing on my throw speed and precision, should I truly take notice/care to the computer grabbing me first since its nearly frame perfect. The average human can't be that fast, can it? Anyway, aren't throws faster to conjure than any other attack in the game?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Never use level 9 computers. They really, really, suck in too many ways. Level 9 computers have unrealistic control over their directional influence, so they'll escape many combos that humans would fall into, because of frame precision they'll kill any of your attempts to shield grab, and worst of all, they never recover very well. Do not fool yourself into thinking that you will become truly good at the game by playing against level 9 computers. Instead focus on level 1-5 computers which don't have the crazy DI and grab precision, and use them for combo practice.

The fastest attack in the game is Fox and Falco's reflector, which activates in one frame. It's fast to the point where it is possible to intercept grabs with a well timed reflector.

And 5150 is soooooooo serious. Yeah right.

Spoiler

Do you know what sarcasm is?

=/

 

[handsockpuppet]

Are you serious? While I can stand my ground quite well, amazing well in some cases against those who do not use these advanced techniques, I don't know if I could stand against those that do. However, I've never played anyone who has in my recent memory. Maybe I would stand a chance by adaptation and maybe I wouldn't... o.0

yah of course he was serious why wouldn't he be? your awesome to the max, and someone like 5150 would get crushed if he went up against someone as good as YOU.

 

[Black Waltz]

Are you serious? While I can stand my ground quite well, amazing well in some cases against those who do not use these advanced techniques, I don't know if I could stand against those that do. However, I've never played anyone who has in my recent memory. Maybe I would stand a chance by adaptation and maybe I wouldn't... o.0

liek /omg dude, i dont think its possible for me to win when you roll so much. i mean like, those invul frames are just TOO GOOD. and what about that lag? who cares, you get INVULNERABLE FRAMES. /epicwin

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Umm... I sensed the sarcasm in his words. Hence, I responded as I personally do not like sarcasm or anything of that sort and hence, responded so, accordingly. To me, if you are to use sarcasm, state it assumably after within the minute.

Nonetheless, my main comment to what this has turned into is... You don't necessarily have to have the skills to wavedash, so forth in order to defeat someone who has mastered those. Its just a bit harder and more of a struggle but certainly possible. Despite advanced abilities, you are still open to defeat to even the least of skilled people. The best metaphor or whatever you may think it as to this would be the fall of Sauron to some human. [The scene that plays at the beginning of FOTR.]

 

[Airo]

advance tecniques makes quite a world of difference.

a person who does not know how to l-cancel moves visibly much slowler. There will be heavy lag each time you try and use an aerial. without l-canceling your playing style becomes FULL of openings, and a proffesionally player wont hesitate to punish you.

there are lots of combos that connect out of an aerial ONLY if you l-cancel. no l-cancel = a lot less combos

wavedash provides movement, while allowing you to use standing moves such as tilts and smashes
running provides movement, but does not allow you to use standing moves unless you learn another advance tecnique called pivoting.

if you play against a player that has mastered advance tecniques but doesnt apply them properly, ofcourse you will have your chance defeating him. But against a player that knows what he is doing, I garentee that you not even close to winning.

These are bold words, but with no exageration

 

[5150]

matt im ****ing serious. i watched yoru video and i see something in you that almost no one else has. want me to name a few people that DO have it? isai, azen, ken, m2k, kdj. its just the IT factor. when i see you moving with your roy i just KNOW that if i were top lay you i'd get ****ign 4 stocked and go cry int eh corner. you would just be able to do it all over my face and hand me a paper towel and say "clean yourself up boy.......round 2 starts soon" then 4 stock me again. if i have to plya you in a tournament i wil ljust forfeit so that chillindude doesnt ****ing rag on me again.

 

[thaxceptional1]

dude me too, this guy is easily better than neo

i think he can beat m2k and kdj 2 on 1

 

[handsockpuppet]

dude you're so 1337. your knew name should be MattTheGameFreakingAwesomeAtSmah.

 

[Fuzzy Guts]

I'm quitting smash if the competition is this good. I just don't think I'd be able to keep up.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Okay guys... Enough with the sarcasm. I don't particularly like sarcasm. If your serious... lovely but I SEVERELY doubt it from the wording of each sentence for the past five to seven responses.

 

[handsockpuppet]

ok enough with the sarcasm. you suck. happy now?

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

ok enough with the sarcasm. you suck. happy now?

I completely understand as to why the advanced techniques are useful. I now use L-cancel and fast fall more accordingly as well as hanging off the edge so no one else can. However, I've yet to get wavedashing down. I can do it in a simple form by not moving left or right but as soon as I try to give it direction, Roy jumps considerably higher, ruining the entire thing.

Nonetheless, can't someone still be good and able to defeat people who have everything mastered? Some have answered this before and the answer seems to be if, the person isn't a complete master over some of the techniques, yes, if he is, no. However, my question is simply, can a person truly escape everything? Truly, when Roy actually makes contact with someone above forty to sixty percent or higher, he has the ability to KO within two to three moves after, if given the opportune moment. I don't believe the experts can be on their toes and avoid everything. Sooner or later, they are going to be caught.

'Amatures' can keep up with 'professionals' in my opinion by human fault and arrogance. It also depends on the stage and so forth. Besides, is it truly fair to say that I suck or plain horrible as myself against a straight on computer in the video? People adapt to new additions, some quicker than others. Simply put, if I was paired against an expert, I strongly believe there is a chance that I may faulter for the first two or so lives but possibly adapt and adapt, learning the process of what not to do. To say that I suck due to the fact that I've never been given the opporunity to play someone like Neo isn't exactly fair. The video wasn't meant for that per say. Against a level 9, I thought that was rather good.

If I understand mind game correctly, I did predict my opponent several times if you watched. At the very end, I knew the computer would react with a downward stab if I attack it in the air like so. Hence, I predicted it accordingly as I knew my enemy.

Do not compare me against the videos of contest sparring tournament verus tournament player as this was player verus computer. Grade it so accordingly.

On a side note... In some respects, I've not been blown away by some of the expert/tournament videos as I've seen that skill level achieved by either myself or friends. Hence to more strongly support this particular case, tournament players with all these skills are not godlike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLd-D1aOiI

Better or worse, I've done formulas very close to that against human players at appoximately the same speed level. Watching that doesn't convince me of much difference between what they are doing and what I do myself against humans.

I'm not going to mouth off and state that I can beat Ken or Neo because I probably can't. Based on that video, I probably could give either one a decent fight but they'd like win in the end. However, you never truly know to be honest. Anything can happen. Adaption of the human mind to other people's strategies is what decides the victor in some cases.

While I may not be the one. There is always someone better out there. There will always be someone better than Neo and someone better than the person whom is better than Neo and so forth. Currently, the world 'championship' standards/standings of Smash are incomplete. Its like trying to see into the future with an incomplete future, you can't do it. When Brawl releases with online modes, maybe than, you can start to prove it. As Neo can only play so many people in his regional sector. Online competion is a great thing, isn't it?

 

[Airo]

thaxceptional1, did you have to echo 5150

oops double post....

 

[Airo]

thaxceptional1, did you have to echo 5150 to start the whole fire

However, my question is simply, can a person truly escape everything? Truly, when Roy actually makes contact with someone above forty to sixty percent or higher, he has the ability to KO within two to three moves after, if given the opportune moment. I don't believe the experts can be on their toes and avoid everything. Sooner or later, they are going to be caught.

'Amatures' can keep up with 'professionals' in my opinion by human fault and arrogance. It also depends on the stage and so forth. Besides, is it truly fair to say that I suck or plain horrible as myself against a straight on computer in the video?

You need to realize, we dont need to think we doing advance tecs. Its so built into us we dont realize we are doing it. You need to understand that there is a mind game involved in everything. advance players definitely 4 stock you consistantly for the first few months you play them. i will explain the mindgame more later and how we easily destroy new players regardless of how much we underestimate you.

People adapt to new additions, some quicker than others. Simply put, if I was paired against an expert, I strongly believe there is a chance that I may faulter for the first two or so lives but possibly adapt and adapt, learning the process of what not to do. To say that I suck due to the fact that I've never been given the opporunity to play someone like Neo isn't exactly fair. The video wasn't meant for that per say. Against a level 9, I thought that was rather good.

If I understand mind game correctly, I did predict my opponent several times if you watched. At the very end, I knew the computer would react with a downward stab if I attack it in the air like so. Hence, I predicted it accordingly as I knew my enemy.

Do not compare me against the videos of contest sparring tournament verus tournament player as this was player verus computer. Grade it so accordingly.

adaptation takes a LONG time. to be able to read what your opponent does takes a LONG time. (without offence and out of true sincerity) from watching you video, we as experienced players can quickly spot that you do have a long way to go.

On a side note... In some respects, I've not been blown away by some of the expert/tournament videos as I've seen that skill level achieved by either myself or friends. Hence to more strongly support this particular case, tournament players with all these skills are not godlike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzLd-D1aOiI

Better or worse, I've done formulas very close to that against human players at appoximately the same speed level. Watching that doesn't convince me of much difference between what they are doing and what I do myself against humans.

I'm not going to mouth off and state that I can beat Ken or Neo because I probably can't. Based on that video, I probably could give either one a decent fight but they'd like win in the end. However, you never truly know to be honest. Anything can happen. Adaption of the human mind to other people's strategies is what decides the victor in some cases.

a comparison with me watching hockey. i have no idea what is going on. i dont see anythign complex when i watch a game. a player passes a puck to another player, EVERYONE who is aruond me starts cheering like crazy, and i have no clue whats happening.

its not too different here. when i watch advance players play, everytime i watch it, im amazed at their level of mindgame, level of prediction, level of spacing(ask if you dont know what spacing is).

theres soo much going on in a game.

when i start comboing players that are new to the game, all i need to do is use a simple mindgame to make you use a heavy attack that misses, then just run up to you when you are wide open and start a combo. on top of that, you will not know how to escape my combos. i knew exactly what combos work on you. i know all the options you have and are prepared to react accordingly to whatever you do; you will simply not know how to escape my combo, and i will kill you from just that one combo.

to help you further understand the complexity. Do you play chess of any kind? chess are extremely complex full of strategies. for a chess player, just watching you do a single move, he can already predict everything you will be doing, and you will loose not knowing what hit you. you can try to adapt. but the thigns you need to adapt arnt simply "stop doing this", "do more of this", or "do this when he does this"

using myself as an example. it took me well over a month of playing with my competitive new friends before i was able to start picking up cues, and eventually finally take one stock off of their lives.

i played competitve smash for 2 years. against the top players which ive played for 2 years, they still consistently defeat me with 2 stocks left.

its really hard to explain how complex this game is. you MUST play to find out.
and when you play, out of your frustration, challenge your opponent over and over and over and over and over again, and see if theres any difference. When i tried, i played carefully and thought critically, but still got 4 stocked.

 

[Airo]

i might as well explain spacing while im at it eh? Xd

spacing - when a player carefully manages the distance between his character and his opponent.

there are two types of spacing to manage
1) space so that the two are as close together as possible, but far enough so that his opponents attack wont reach.
2) space so that the two are as close together as possible, such that his attack will hit but his opponent will not be close enough to shield grab as a counter.

players manage their spacing by either
1) dashdance
2) wavedash
3) or jumping

When an experienced player messes up his spacing, he will immediately take precaution, knowing that by having improper spacing, he has left himself wide open for attacks. The player will either spot dodge, shield, or roll.

If the opponent is aware of his precaution, he will either prepare for a tech chase or charge a smash attack so that he could hit him out of his spot dodge.

When one person understands this concept, but the other doesnt, the other person has no chance of winning. None of his attacks will land successfully, and the adapt player is always ready to punish.

When both players are adept in spacing, the game becomes even more complex. Approach suddenly becomes such a huge thing. How can you land an attack that you know for sure that you have a good chance of hitting. I assure you, random attacks will NOT hit. I wont go into the details of approaches; understanding approaches become very character specific.

Escaping combos also requires lots of understanding and experience. DI is the key to escaping combos when you are suspended in the air. The proper DI you should use varies depending on your percentage. While it may be suitable to DI towards you opponent for a certain combo, it may lead to your death at a different percentage. Some combos are able to connect either way whether you DI one way or the other, but will require your opponent to successfully predict which one you chose. New players often make the mistake of always DIing away from the opponent. DIing away is ideal in many situations, but because you always DI one direction, your opponent knows EXACTLY what to do to connect all his hits in the combo. Do you realize that the level 9 computer you play is always DIing towards you?

Do you also realize that your combos only work on some level9 characters, not all? the weight factor and trajectory are simply too different. Because of these differences, different characters require different spacing. Combos against certain characters require you to predict different DI. Escaping combos against different character's combos are also drasticly different.

lets not even get started on the mindgame involving edgeguarding and recovering. They also vary drasticly between characters. The way my mewtwo edgeguards a fox, does not work at all against marth. my edgeguard against marth does not work at all against peach.

understanding what your opponent is capable of doing is also very important. all their movesets are different. Against a bowser, i know i should not stand even close to the ledge when he is grabbing it because his get up attack has too much reach.

Competitive players of each character is different from what you usually encouter. A pro fox has absolutely no resemblence to the fox u usually play.

Adapting to each competitive character will take you a VERY long time.
Adapting to being able to learn DI, edgeguard properly, recover properly, combo properly, approach properly.
Adapting to a characters playing style will take EVEN LONGER.

you need to realize. A pro will be able to destroy you in EVERY SINGLE aspect of the game.

There is so much more to this game than what ive typed up.
If you have more questions, ill answer them too.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

A bit off subject of wha I've been speaking of but can you give me ideas of what to do against Link and Marth? One of my friends play Link(His offense is extremely good till I'm close to them in which he than uses the overpowered spin atack.). While my friend who plays Marth has trouble as I'm always on the offense, his counter continously forces me into defensive mode. I hate Marth's counter, it last too long and its quick to conjure. I've been incorporating throws more so into my strategy however...

Edit: I'm now a child of Smash! o.0 >.> <.< >.> [Okay, enough of that. ]

 

[handsockpuppet]

learn to SHFFL or die of pwnage. wavedashing and wavelanding is too important. if your just going to fight computers and friends though, then you don't need advanced techniques or good playing.