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...Maybe it's time for a new director (plz no hate o.o)

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Gidy

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I typed this on a phone, so bare with me.

Sakurai is the man of Smash. He's the one behind it all. He's basically the reason for Smashboards. Casually, we have had fun with all of his games, spending hours with our friends. The good times never ended and probably never will.

But as we all know a competitive community developed for the game and took it more seriously, discovering new mechanics that added more skill to the game and a different way to play. It's been a rollercoster ride when it comes to skill of the series, going downhill since brawl if you don't count PM.

Now here come Super Smash Bros 4, and it looks like it's continuing downhill. Let me explain.

After watching some gameplay videos and responses to them, it seems that this is the most barebones Smash Bros to be created. Obviously Melee mechanics haven't returned, but the funny thing is neither has Brawls yet the game "feels" like brawl. Use feel with a grain of salt. Sure, you could argue that there is the new Pivot Cancelling and like Brawl the metagame will continue to evolve, discovering new mechanics over time, but what was the point of removing perfectly fine mechanics in the first place when it doesn't even affect casual play? I doubt this will chamge because the 3DS release is right around the corner

Nintendo had been kneed in the shins with the Wii U and it's sales. This has brought them closer to their hardcore audience, listening, and interacting. Examplrs being the midnight X/Y event, GC Adapter, the Smash Invitational, Reggies message to EVO, and the SDCC 3DS Tournement. It looks like Nintendo is supporting the Smash community, even the competitive Smash community.This is fantastic news for a group of individuals who have thrived on their own for 13 years.

Howver, Sakurai is a stubborn man, no matter how you put it.

He doesn't like people to lose. He's kinda like a predictive anime character, wanting everyone to win. Like said, he removes competitive mechanics even though they don't interfere with casual play. There also seems to be no compromising with him. I appreciate that SSB4s speed is the supposed middle ground between Brawls and Melees, but stripping the mechanics of both games just makes me think that he really isn't trying to please both sides. This is very stressful on him, especially so since he doesn't make sequels for most of his games. Notice no Kirby Air Ride 2?

Perhaps it's time for a new director of the Smash series.

I guarantee that if Sakurai we're to walk out of Nintendo the series would still go on. It prints money. No way they are gonna stop that. But if he did walk out, we would be given a new Director for the series obviously. One might say that it will fall into the wrong hands, But Nintendo wouldn't be so foolish to hand off one of their most successful IPs to just anyone.

My hope would be it's someone who finds new ways to reinvent the Smash series positively, both casually and competitively. No Melee 2.0 or Brawl 2.0, but something new. New wacky fun items. New competitive mechanics that enrich the gameplay. A balance between hazard filled crazy stages and "duke it out" stages. Someone who actaully takes community feedback in to consideration.

This would not only make the game funner, but allow Nintendo to become even closer to their community. Perhaps even it could one day end up like how competitive Pokemon is.

I don't doubt that Smash 4 is going to be a great game, but it probably is going to be the most stripped down in the series. There probably will be a competitive scene for the game, as this amazing community will go through anything to get this series on the big screen, but like Brawl it won't reach Melee heights.

Please take my thoughts in to consideration before posting. Also sorry if there are grammer errors xD, I hope I got my point across though.
 
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TheKk-47

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inb4lock and flame war. I do kinda agree with what you're saying though. He wants the game to be fun but he takes away advanced techs so that competitive players can't play? What's worst is that these don't affect casual play! Now I don't really care about these techs because more movement options = replacement of wavedashing and reduced landing lag = l-cancelling. To me reducing landing lag is the best option. It will promote more agressive play, making fun to play and watch. I'll never know why these techs are compromised for casuals though.

I mean I know they are the wider audience but do casual players even care if they're Melee or Brawl(gameplay wise). But I love Sakurai and I wouldn't want him to go unless he's ready to retire.
 

Hayzie

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Simply, No.

TL;DR: No.
 

Dragon1128

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No.

Honestly, each smash game plays completely differently. What works in one, doesn't work in another. 64, Melee, Brawl, and even the new one are fundamentally different. Love it or hate it.

Some are hits(for the competitive community) some are misses, it's likely always going to be that way.

However, sakurai does a fine job directing the game, and the people who actually matter(the majority AKA casuals) respect the man, and like how he works. Replacing him when he has such a good track record thus far(again, for most people) screams stupid.
 
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Gidy

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No.

Honestly, each smash game plays completely differently. What works in one, doesn't work in another. 64, Melee, Brawl, and even the new one are fundamentally different. Love it or hate it.

Some are hits(for the competitive community) some are misses, it's likely always going to be that way.

However, sakurai does a fine job directing the game, and the people who actually matter(the majority AKA casuals) respect the man, and like how he works. Replacing him when he has such a good track record thus far(again, for most people) screams stupid.
I was hoping that Nintendo would look at the community for track records, especially now since they are so involved. You know somethings gotta be up when they are sponsoring EVO and sending a reggie fan messages. But still, why can't we have hits for both ends?
 
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Mr. KoopaTurtle

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Perhaps if you read it you'd understand where I'm coming from in the slightest bit ;)
I really don't see how Smash 4 is continuing downhill, but I respect your opinion. Also, you said "going downhill since Brawl," but that was only the third game in the entire series. You seem to be saying that there are several more titles in the series, heheh.

I think Sakurai may end up stepping down from working on Smash Bros, but only because of health issues and such. I honestly think Sakurai makes some very strange decisions concerning Smash, but he is an amazing director. I don't necessarily like the changes he makes at times, but I respect him.

As for Smash 4 itself, that will be a debate for another topic, another day.
 
D

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Perhaps if you read it you'd understand where I'm coming from in the slightest bit ;)
I read it all and I humbly advise all who haven't yet to just not do so because it's a waste of time.

More whining about the new game not being what you want it to be.
 
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Gidy

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I really don't see how Smash 4 is continuing downhill, but I respect your opinion. Also, you said "going downhill since Brawl," but that was only the third game in the entire series. You seem to be saying that there are several more titles in the series, heheh.

I think Sakurai may end up stepping down from working on Smash Bros, but only because of health issues and such. I honestly think Sakurai makes some very strange decisions concerning Smash, but he is an amazing director. I don't necessarily like the changes he makes at times, but I respect him.

As for Smash 4 itself, that will be a debate for another topic, another day.
K.
Smash 64 is the start of a rollercoster
Melee uphill
Brawl downhill
SSB4 IMO, continueing downhill

Hopefully that made sense lol
 

PizzaWenisaur

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Yea - honestly it's something that I thought about for a little bit.

I think Sakurai is a great designer - and has a ton of creativity. I think he adds a lot to Smash and offers legitimately interesting and new ideas. I didn't think in a million years Smash 4 would have custom moves.

But, at the same time I don't like the "everyone wins" design philosophy he tries to add to Smash in particular. I wouldn't mind him spear-heading Smash as perhaps the creative director, and someone else who ensure that the gameplay is competitive and fully-realized.

But I don't think that will happen anytime soon, especially considering Smash is his baby.
 
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Gidy

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I read it all and I humbly advise all who haven't yet to just not do so because it's a waste of time.

More whining about the new game not being what you want it to be.
Can you provide reason? This is the first thread I actually put some time in to so feedback on it for future threads would help
 
D

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Can you provide reason? This is the first thread I actually put some time in to so feedback on it for future threads would help
You are just initiating another broad argument on the basis of the game not being similar to melee as a reason for it "going downhill".

There are many specific points we can argue about, which exist in other threads, of why Smash 4 is going to be just fine as it looks, but what exactly are we supposed to do with yet another vague assertion that Smash 4 is going to fail just cuz it ain't Melee?
 

Dragon1128

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I was hoping that Nintendo would look at the community for track records, especially now since they are so involved. You know somethings gotta be up when they are sponsoring EVO and sending a reggie fan messages. But still, why can't we have hits for both ends?
Not saying we can't, but the fact is, we don't know if smash 4 will end up being a hit or not. It could end up better than melee(which frankly, I think is over-rated 64 is better even if it's clunky as hell by modern standards), it could end up worse than brawl. All we have are early builds, and we don't know crap about how the meta-game will develop. It's way too early to call smash 4 part of a downhill trend.

Again, no smash game has been close to the same in terms of how it plays. This one is no different.
 
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NintendoKnight

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I disagree.

Am I allowed to state my opinion? I think I'm allowed to state my opinion.

In my honest opinion, and this is my own personal feelings that you may disagree with, Melee is the weakest entry in the series. Therefore, why would I want anything from Melee to be carried over into this new game?

When Brawl released, I realized just how little I actually liked Melee in comparison to the other two Smash games (64, and Brawl) especially in regards to the in-game mechanics. Of course, I had always preferred 64 over Melee, that didn't change just because Brawl was released.

Now, seeing this new game, I'm filled with glee as I get to see it become a better Brawl. And even then, calling it Brawl 2.0 is reaching. While it has similarities to Brawl, you must realize that it shares equal similarities to every Smash game. Smash Bros fundamentals have flowed within the veins of every Smash game Sakurai has laid his hands on, and this next installment is no exception.

Sakurai is an incredible director. His entire goal is to build a game that will please the majority, and then overload the game with so much content that you have something to keep yourself busy for months. And that isn't even counting the multiplayer modes.

And regarding community feedback, one look at Miiverse tells me how horrible of an idea that is. You may think that Nintendo could get advice from the hardcore players, but let's be honest here: The hardcore players are the quietest voices in the crowd.

And finally on Advanced Techniques, the base game should be so solidly built that it shouldn't need AT's. Just sayin'.

That's my take on it. If Sakurai ever leaves the series, I'm positive he'll pull a Miyamoto and handpick his successor. But until then, I do not want anyone other than Sakurai calling the shots.
 
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papagenos

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wait til the game is out before jumping the gun.

but would i like a smash game that obviously appeals to casual and competitive gamers? would i like a roster that isn't full of "sakurai's you-couldn't guess em' wacky fighters" and closer to what would be a top requested nintendo characters poll?

yes. yes i would and have wanted this series out of sakurai's hands since brawl wasn't my cup of tea. so yeah i agree but i'm waiting until the game is in my hands for a while before i judge it this time around.
 
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Scourge The Hedgehog

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Let me just say first off that you're entitled to your opinion and that's cool. My own personal response is that no one can do what Sakurai does for the Smash games. His choice of characters, the unique move sets, the stages as crazy and random as they are, each aspect is done with extensive care and personally I don't think anyone can really take up the mantle from him at this point. Each game has something the other does whether it was the advanced techs from melee to the unique subspace emissary story to even boss battles on playable stages in smash 4.

TL:DR Sakurai in my humble opinion is the man with the master hand.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I typed this on a phone, so bare with me.

Sakurai is the man of Smash. He's the one behind it all. He's basically the reason for Smashboards. Casually, we have had fun with all of his games, spending hours with our friends. The good times never ended and probably never will.

But as we all know a competitive community developed for the game and took it more seriously, discovering new mechanics that added more skill to the game and a different way to play. It's been a rollercoster ride when it comes to skill of the series, going downhill since brawl if you don't count PM.

Now here come Super Smash Bros 4, and it looks like it's continuing downhill. Let me explain.

After watching some gameplay videos and responses to them, it seems that this is the most barebones Smash Bros to be created. Obviously Melee mechanics haven't returned, but the funny thing is neither has Brawls yet the game "feels" like brawl. Use feel with a grain of salt. Sure, you could argue that there is the new Pivot Cancelling and like Brawl the metagame will continue to evolve, discovering new mechanics over time, but what was the point of removing perfectly fine mechanics in the first place when it doesn't even affect casual play? I doubt this will chamge because the 3DS release is right around the corner

Nintendo had been kneed in the shins with the Wii U and it's sales. This has brought them closer to their hardcore audience, listening, and interacting. Examplrs being the midnight X/Y event, GC Adapter, the Smash Invitational, Reggies message to EVO, and the SDCC 3DS Tournement. It looks like Nintendo is supporting the Smash community, even the competitive Smash community.This is fantastic news for a group of individuals who have thrived on their own for 13 years.

Howver, Sakurai is a stubborn man, no matter how you put it.

He doesn't like people to lose. He's kinda like a predictive anime character, wanting everyone to win. Like said, he removes competitive mechanics even though they don't interfere with casual play. There also seems to be no compromising with him. I appreciate that SSB4s speed is the supposed middle ground between Brawls and Melees, but stripping the mechanics of both games just makes me think that he really isn't trying to please both sides. This is very stressful on him, especially so since he doesn't make sequels for most of his games. Notice no Kirby Air Ride 2?

Perhaps it's time for a new director of the Smash series.

I guarantee that if Sakurai we're to walk out of Nintendo the series would still go on. It prints money. No way they are gonna stop that. But if he did walk out, we would be given a new Director for the series obviously. One might say that it will fall into the wrong hands, But Nintendo wouldn't be so foolish to hand off one of their most successful IPs to just anyone.

My hope would be it's someone who finds new ways to reinvent the Smash series positively, both casually and competitively. No Melee 2.0 or Brawl 2.0, but something new. New wacky fun items. New competitive mechanics that enrich the gameplay. A balance between hazard filled crazy stages and "duke it out" stages. Someone who actaully takes community feedback in to consideration.

This would not only make the game funner, but allow Nintendo to become even closer to their community. Perhaps even it could one day end up like how competitive Pokemon is.

I don't doubt that Smash 4 is going to be a great game, but it probably is going to be the most stripped down in the series. There probably will be a competitive scene for the game, as this amazing community will go through anything to get this series on the big screen, but like Brawl it won't reach Melee heights.

Please take my thoughts in to consideration before posting. Also sorry if there are grammer errors xD, I hope I got my point across though.

Tl;dr.

This is basically a Nintendoomed thread and a very stupid suggestion.

Why would you want to cut the man who sold millions of units and helps spread advertising to Nintendo's Franchises?


You make no sense and bring up no good points.

Sakurai has no reason to leave, unless he chooses to.

Your doubt in this game does not mean Sakurai should not work on the game, you don't think this game will be that great? Fine, but don't try to suggest getting rid of Sakurai
.
 

Dragon1128

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wait til the game is out before jumping the gun.

but would i like a smash game that obviously appeals to casual and competitive gamers? would i like a roster that isn't full of "sakurai's you-couldn't guess em' wacky fighters" and closer to what would be a top requested nintendo characters poll?

yes. yes i would and have wanted this series out of sakurai's hands since brawl wasn't my cup of tea. so yeah i agree but i'm waiting until the game is in my hands for a while before i judge it this time around.
To be fair, I know a GREAT many people that have come to love a lot of the whacky "what the hell is this WTF" characters. Even been the case for me. Hated them when I first saw them, but when you play with them, you get a newfound respect for their own unique sense of charm. Just putting in all the "big names" and leaving it at that would feel hollow.

I mean, if we just put in the BIG heavily requested names, and didn't have any "WTF Sakurai" characters we wouldn't have
1.Captain Falcon
2. Game and Watch
3. Fire emblem characters period (love it or hate it, smash brought it to the west, and they were WTF for us)
4.R.O.B, which actually turned out fun, despite looking dumb at first.
5. Wii fit trainer, which has actually gained popularity, I even hated her at first, but after seeing her, she seems fun.
 
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Mr. KoopaTurtle

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Oh, and I don't think Smash 4 looks bad at all. The tweaks I think should be made are very fixable, and Nintendo reps received feedback at E3. Overall, I'm confident for this game.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I was hoping that Nintendo would look at the community for track records, especially now since they are so involved. You know somethings gotta be up when they are sponsoring EVO and sending a reggie fan messages. But still, why can't we have hits for both ends?
You want someone to lose their job just because this game is not up to your standards? Please get off your highhorse.

If you want a game that plays close to Melee, you are better off playing Project M or Melee.

Don't try to suggest people to lose their jobs just because you have little faith in the next installment.
 

Secret Sexytime

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I honestly had way more fun with brawl than with melee, I have to admit. I played melee for quite some time, and yeah I know how to wavedash and l-cancel and all that. Which made it impossible for me to play with my friends cause they didn't know those techs and thus I won 95 % of the time. Brawl is a game that you can still enjoy without having to give up your day job.

And my reaction to all the footage I've seen so far of Sm4sh is the same as what my friends said when I showed them some gameplay, "Wow, looks like they added A LOT of fun stuff!". Which in the end is why I play smash. Cause it's fun. And fun is just what Nintendo does. So no, Sakurai is doing a great job and he should continue to do so as long as he wants/is able to.
 
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Amazing Ampharos

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Sorry to be blunt, but your analysis here is just completely wrong. The premise of your argument seems to be that this game has fewer mechanics than the previous games and therefore is less deep and interesting. This is a very flawed argument on so many levels. The chief level is that it's factually just wrong; this game in fact appears to be more mechanically complex than the previous games (the customization system alone really guarantees that, but it's not the only reason I say that). Of course, even more, it's not like the quality of a game is measured by its mechanical count; it's more about the quality of the total mechanics than the number of mechanics.

To finish with the serious problems with your argument, I'm not even seeing what you're talking about with "removed mechanics". Let's take a commonly suggested "removed mechanic" that wasn't: wavedashing. The main reason is that wavedashing is not a mechanic. Air dodging is a mechanic, and it is in both Brawl and smash 4. Wavedashing is an emergent behavior from a mechanic, but it's not like Brawl and smash 4 don't have a lot of gameplay centered around their airdodges too. It's different gameplay, but is it actually better or worse? That's subjective, but what is clear is that nothing was "removed" in this case. It's pretty much this way with most things. Almost any mechanic you could point to as removed either is not really a mechanic or is something that has a very strong argument for being a bad mechanic that made the game worse (tripping is such an easy example, but the L-cancel is a pretty bad mechanic too to pick on the games more equally). So like, overall, I don't think your argument actually makes any sense. I again don't want to just be mean; I know you probably really believe that. I mostly post because a lot of other people believe that, and that position makes no sense at all. I know these sort of arguments tend to be losing arguments, but so far we're vaguely civil so let's continue to play nice while telling each other how completely wrong we all are.

Sakurai also does so much good work that I think it's easy to just take for granted. I mean, just think about how fun smash really is, how carefully built the gameplay really is. Did you play TMNT Smash Up? How about PSABR? It should be quite clear that making a good smash styled fighter is actually really, really hard. It's likely that an arbitrary new director would make something with some very serious flaws like those games had. Sakurai has a perfect track record with three excellent games under his belt (smash 64 isn't that excellent compared to Melee and Brawl really, but for a first try, it's pretty incredible). Honestly, I think we should be thankful that a series we all get so much out of is led by someone as talented and dedicated as he is; he's made both of those things so clear so many times.
 
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LightningVance

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No.
People who play the game for the enjoyment of the game exponentially outweigh the amount of people who play for the core mechanics and competitive scene.

If competitive players didn't buy the game, the sales would still reach multiple millions. And in the end, they're the ones that matter. Sure Sakurai acknowledges the competitive scene and I'm sure you guys are on his mind, but realistically there are so much less of you than people who love the game for the sole fact that it's a Smash Bros game.

If you like what Sakurai did with any of the past 3 games don't even kid yourself saying you wouldn't buy the next game if he kept directing them.
 

Gidy

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You are just initiating another broad argument on the basis of the game not being similar to melee as a reason for it "going downhill".

There are many specific points we can argue about, which exist in other threads, of why Smash 4 is going to be just fine as it looks, but what exactly are we supposed to do with yet another vague assertion that Smash 4 is going to fail just cuz it ain't Melee?
I said I didn't want a Brawl 2.0 or a Melee 2.0. I never even played Melee competitively.
 
D

Deleted member 245254

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I said I didn't want a Brawl 2.0 or a Melee 2.0. I never even played Melee competitively.
Smash 4 isn't going to be a Brawl or Melee 2.0, so what's your point?
 

Shorts

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I agree. A fresh look on this franchise would be nice. The core of the game will stay the same forever. Having a new.. "spin" on Smash would be nice.

I frankly don't see how we can have any newcomers in the next game without cutting a good amount from the current roster. But that's speculation for... next January I suppose.

@Everyone saying no

It's going to happen eventually. Sakurai is an artist, and I know for a fact he doesn't want to be confined to repeating the same game where he doesnt get to flex his creative muscles every new console generation. He will not produce Smash bros forever. I'm frankly suprised he took Smash 4 on.
 
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Oracle_Summon

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Smash 4 isn't going to be a Brawl or Melee 2.0, so what's your point?
He just wants Sakurai gone so he can think things will "change". He makes no sense whatsoever.

SSB4 has new and exciting items in the game and they haven't even shown all of the items in the game, yet, he thinks the items will suck and have already written them off.

He is judging the game and requests a change in directors with no logical arguments or meaningful points.
 

Gidy

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Suggesting that Sakurai loses his job just because Gidy does not have faith in the Smash Series? Gidy making this thread is the only act of stupidity.
Like @ PizzaWenisaur PizzaWenisaur said, have him as the creative director. Sakurai never loses his surprise factor, especially in the character trailers.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Like @ PizzaWenisaur PizzaWenisaur said, have him as the creative director. Sakurai never loses his surprise factor, especially in the character trailers.
You suggested he should leave as the director. I have more faith in Sakurai than anyone else who makes the game, because only Sakurai knows how to keep the "feeling" of Smash Brothers in the games.

You are also judging a game before having seen anything or testing the final product.
 

Egg-Off the Conquerer

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Sakurai said somewhere that this would be his last smash game. I'm curious and cautiously optimistic that a new director can really bring something to the table. Or at least a director that doesn't micro manage as aggressively as sakurai.
 

Gidy

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He just wants Sakurai gone so he can think things will "change". He makes no sense whatsoever.

SSB4 has new and exciting items in the game and they haven't even shown all of the items in the game, yet, he thinks the items will suck and have already written them off.

He is judging the game and requests a change in directors with no logical arguments or meaningful points.
Okay, if you could stop being so rude that'd be great.

I never said the items would suck in Smash 4, so what made you think that?
 

PizzaWenisaur

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Suggesting that Sakurai loses his job just because Gidy does not have faith in the Smash Series? Gidy making this thread is the only act of stupidity.
Well, saying it like that is really strong and I think you are over-exagerating.

Why are you riding the moral high horse? Would a similar response be elicited if I suggested Madden should be done by another team?

I think it's natural and healthy to talk about new teams/people working on projects. New people can bring a new vision that the old people didn't have. Even when a new team isn't a good idea - the conversation should be open.

To be frank, it's Sakurai. I'm sure just because he isn't working on Smash Bros doesn't mean he'll be job-less.
 

Gidy

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You suggested he should leave as the director. I have more faith in Sakurai than anyone else who makes the game, because only Sakurai knows how to keep the "feeling" of Smash Brothers in the games.

You are also judging a game before having seen anything or testing the final product.
Perhaps I have judged the game a bit early, but my suggestion could go for the future Smash Bros. He may know the feeling of Smash Bros, but others do as well, arguably even more so. If a hardcore smash enthusiast were to direct the next game we'd no problem. This could be a similar situation for how Bungie left Halo and 343i, a group of Halo fanatics, picked up the series successfully
 
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Oracle_Summon

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,059
Okay, if you could stop being so rude that'd be great.

I never said the items would suck in Smash 4, so what made you think that?
You did not make your points very clear is what i am pointing out. It is mainly the fact that you are already dismissing the game and saying it will be lack luster.

This topic should not have been made really.

If a game is not broken then don't fix it.
 

Oracle_Summon

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
5,059
Well, saying it like that is really strong and I think you are over-exagerating.

Why are you riding the moral high horse? Would a similar response be elicited if I suggested Madden should be done by another team?

I think it's natural and healthy to talk about new teams/people working on projects. New people can bring a new vision that the old people didn't have. Even when a new team isn't a good idea - the conversation should be open.

To be frank, it's Sakurai. I'm sure just because he isn't working on Smash Bros doesn't mean he'll be job-less.
This is a guaranteed job for Sakurai. He would probably have other jobs to work on, but having something guaranteed would be beneficial.

It is the whole vibe that Gidy's post contains.

Perhaps I have judged the game a bit early, but my suggestion could go for the future Smash Bros. He may know the feeling of Smash Bros, but others do as well, arguably even more so. If a hardcore smash enthusiast were to direct the next game we'd no problem. This could be a similar situation for how Bungie left Halo and 343i, a group of Halo fanatics, picked up the series successfully
Hardcore Smash Enthusiasts are those like the ones who play Melee. Those guys would not make the series any better since all of the later iterations would feel entirely like Melee.

Only Sakurai is the one who fully knows the feeling of how to make Smash work great. Only if someone was under his wing would the new director work.

Except most Halo fans said that 343i "killed" the Halo Franchise, ruining their hardcore fanbase.
 
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