Matt from Yo Videogames's Video on Smash 4

[SSBBDaisy]

Well that much is obvious.



Ok, and they aren't. We'll just have to adjust and learn to play without them with whatever we find.



You aren't going to find a goldmine of ATs from an E3 demo in less than a week. Besides, a game without ATs doesn't mean the game won't be a fun competitive experience at all.



http://www.ssbwiki.com/Wavebouncing

I was referring to that. I remember reading or hearing from someone telling me that this is in the game. I could be wrong though, didn't get to play the game myself.



If it's something that isn't harmful to the overall experience of competitive or casual players I don't think he'd touch it. Sakurai's not the boogie man.

Uhhh Sakurai is the boogie man. I see plenty of casual players at my school, playing melee over brawl and they don't care that it's faster paced and they don't even notice it. Like what this guy said in the video.

 

[JayJay584]

Uhhh Sakurai is the boogie man. I see plenty of casual players at my school, playing melee over brawl and they don't care that it's faster paced and they don't even notice it. Like what this guy said in the video.

Oh come on, this is the guy who worked 13 months straight with no Sundays off to bring you people Melee, and you think he's the boogie man? No one ever said casuals can't enjoy Melee, but I do imagine it was hard for a lot of them to get halfway decent at it. Not that they care, since in my experience they just tend to walk at you and hit every attack button. Sakurai was aware of some techs and whatnot left in Melee, and decided to keep them there. He knew that the more advanced players would take advantage of them. With Brawl he intentionally slowed it down because he felt it'd improve the casuals experience. I wouldn't say it was the right thing to do in my opinion, but it was to him. Now Smash 4 is around the corner and he's trying to find a balance between casual play and competitive play, and I think he's giving it his best shot. He knew Melee was pretty advanced, he knew Brawl was casual, and now he believes Smash 4 is in between that. He might get it right. Maybe his goal is to ease the casuals into becoming more advanced players.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

Oh come on, this is the guy who worked 13 months straight with no Sundays off to bring you people Melee, and you think he's the boogie man? No one ever said casuals can't enjoy Melee, but I do imagine it was hard for a lot of them to get halfway decent at it. Not that they care, since in my experience they just tend to walk at you and hit every attack button. Sakurai was aware of some techs and whatnot left in Melee, and decided to keep them there. He knew that the more advanced players would take advantage of them. With Brawl he intentionally slowed it down because he felt it'd improve the casuals experience. I wouldn't say it was the right thing to do in my opinion, but it was to him. Now Smash 4 is around the corner and he's trying to find a balance between casual play and competitive play, and I think he's giving it his best shot. He knew Melee was pretty advanced, he knew Brawl was casual, and now he believes Smash 4 is in between that. He might get it right. Maybe his goal is to ease the casuals into becoming more advanced players.

Pretty much but since the Competitive Fighting Game Players don't like having casuals come in and try to get better at the game.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

My overall point for posting all this stuff is because I want this game to have the biggest competitive community that will not die down after a year like brawl.

I just want this to stay alive. I know a few Melee/PM players that are going to give this game a shot from where I live. But knowing how they are, being super competitive, their enthusiasm for this game will not last long because of the way it's looking


Some of them went to the Best Buy event and played the game. They hated it, I tried to convince them to give the game a real chance when it comes out. I told them things you guys keep saying here "It's a demo" "it's in development". They just see the direction it's headed in and don't care.

None of them pre-ordered the game that day, which is fine. I just hope that the PM/Melee hardcore community where I'm at play this game actively and it's offered in tournaments. THATS ALL I WANT.

 

[tirkaro]

I wouldn't say it's "too late" to fix the game at all. While it's way too much to expect the game to go full Melee 2.0, most of the biggest issues with the game can be easily fixed with some tweaking.

Something VERY similar happened with the Brawl demo from years back. Even though it was only shown about 3 months before release, the core demo was very different from what we got from the final game.
http://smashboards.com/threads/gimpyfishs-brawl-impressions-brawl-talk-episode-1-added.121329/

While in that case it was mostly for the worse, the Nintendo reps have been shown to be obviously hearing out the feedback given by the community this time around, something they weren't doing whatsoever during Brawl's development, so I'm cautiously optimistic about the reverse happening here.

 

[Riposte__]

Why is this video Flamebait? It's not Game Radar, and he is right on all points.

1) The amount of lag is too damn high
2) the ego of Saki remains the biggest threat to smash games
3) the game wont be competitive if they stay on this track.
4) There is no reason NOT to balance it to competitive players; the people who will never play competitive will not miss out on any smash fun by not knowing about wavedashing or shine spike combos ect.

On SKen's stream the the other day he said his impression of Smash 4 is that it would be better if tournys played with limited amount of items to make it more exciting.

YES it's still a demo and it could change, but we better hope it does because this focusing on casuals rather then competitors is driving away a core part of the audience.

It seems like Nintendo is of two minds on this. On one hand is Saki and his ego pushing to make this a casual only game, and on the other is the rest of Nintendo really pushing for the competitive market.

 

[Renji64]

Oh come on, this is the guy who worked 13 months straight with no Sundays off to bring you people Melee, and you think he's the boogie man? No one ever said casuals can't enjoy Melee, but I do imagine it was hard for a lot of them to get halfway decent at it. Not that they care, since in my experience they just tend to walk at you and hit every attack button. Sakurai was aware of some techs and whatnot left in Melee, and decided to keep them there. He knew that the more advanced players would take advantage of them. With Brawl he intentionally slowed it down because he felt it'd improve the casuals experience. I wouldn't say it was the right thing to do in my opinion, but it was to him. Now Smash 4 is around the corner and he's trying to find a balance between casual play and competitive play, and I think he's giving it his best shot. He knew Melee was pretty advanced, he knew Brawl was casual, and now he believes Smash 4 is in between that. He might get it right. Maybe his goal is to ease the casuals into becoming more advanced players.

So he just leaves the hardcore with nothing to enjoy or people who don't like brawl.

 

[Rikana]

I pretty much agree with all his points except one - "can't use mindgames in brawl or smash 4". As much as I don't enjoy playing brawl or smash 4, mindgames can still be applied.

I still won't purchase the game unless I see improvements from the demo. I'll probably play casually but I'd probably get bored of the game after a month.

 

[Rikana]

A lot of you have unrealistic expectations though. The only thing I want is a tiny bit less lag on aerials and that's all I need. I love every Smash game and they were all different experiences. I don't expect you to be happy with the end product at all going by your posts though. Maybe you'll be surprised and like it but we won't know until the game is out.

I've came to accept that it won't have wavedashing or lcanceling long ago. What I was hoping for doesn't even come close to what I originally wished for. Honestly, all it needs for me in order for it to be a good game are the following: dash dancing, preserve momentum from dash to jump, remove upb tethers (which they have but I was hoping for all tethers in general), bring back sweet spotting recovery instead of giving us that planking magnetic hands bs, more punishable rolls and air dodges (rolls got buffed and air dodges got nerfed), crouch out of dash, and faster gameplay (which has happened but some landing lag seems to counter that).

This list alone could have provided a much better experience in general because it provides the player with more control of their own character. This is also something that can be tweaked in a matter of a day (except the removal of tethers).

Edit: double posted by accident. Forgot I posted here lol I'm on mobile

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

This video kinda destroys me because I respect Matt and I love all the stuff from Yo! Videogames. But hearing Matt saying such things about the game I'm expecting so much; and of Sakurai, a man I admire even more. Its like losing faith in your childhood hero, except its more of an adulthood hero.

 

[GmanSir]

He said that Melee was balanced by just Sakurai, aka one person. But he says 12 people balancing Smash 4 is too little?

 

[shininimuss]

He said that Melee was balanced by just Sakurai, aka one person. But he says 12 people balancing Smash 4 is too little?

melee was a happy accident, he got a bit lucky, melee wasn't made with competitive play in mind. smash 4 is supposed to be competitive, so 12 people isn't really enough.

 

[Hong]

Since they share a studio, here's Max's take on Smash 4:

He's not always right when it comes to mechanics (especially since he knows he's not an expert), but look at how reasonable he is:

Acknowledges that the game speed is genuinely faster at about the same feelings we have all concluded (about 25%~ faster), but focuses on why there are still issues.

Acknowledges that this is an old, old build, and things can still improve.

Acknowledges that Brawl is the best selling entry, and regardless of whether or not he agrees with the design direction, it will still influence the next product vastly.

I won't spoil everything, but it's worth listening to his opinion on it to compare it to the same guy he shares a space with.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Now Max's video felt a lot better. He pointed it out he is no pro. But as a fighting game guru, he understands fighting games never play exaclty the same, even if they are sequels.
Faith in "Yo! Videogames" restored.

 

[Ulevo]

It's kind of funny because while he is fairly acquainted with fighting games, he's quite the beginner to competitive Smash, and yet he can't help but feel disappointed about the Smash Wii U demo despite being ignorant to why specifically there might be a problem.

 

[Orngeblu]

"Rosalina can puppet her luma" (not exact words, but along the lines) "this makes it very easy to get wins off her." Bull****. I'd like to say I stopped watching the video after that comment, just because of how dumb it was, but that would be false.

This game is going to be campy as hell? Bull**** again. Sure, camping will likely be possible, but I doubt that will be a go-to strategy for this game in every match, utter bull****. Imo, he must be really bad at Smash to think that way.

 

[Ulevo]

"Rosalina can puppet her luma" (not exact words, but along the lines) "this makes it very easy to get wins off her." Bull****. I'd like to say I stopped watching the video after that comment, just because of how dumb it was, but that would be false.

This game is going to be campy as hell? Bull**** again. Sure, camping will likely be possible, but I doubt that will be a go-to strategy for this game in every match, utter bull****. Imo, he must be really bad at Smash to think that way.

Considering that's how Brawl was, and considering playing offensively in the demo seemed even less rewarding and unsafe to do, I'd say it's a pretty accurate guess. We'll have to wait and see, but don't be surprised if he's right.

 

[Lugubrious]

I'm pleased that Max realizes that even though he wanted to remain the same, he's willing to adapt to something new--to learn new things, to 'get used to it'. It's an openminded philosophy that directly contrasted Matt's, and I think that Max is going to get more mileage out of it.

 

[Orngeblu]

Considering that's how Brawl was, and considering playing offensively in the demo seemed even less rewarding and unsafe to do, I'd say it's a pretty accurate guess. We'll have to wait and see, but don't be surprised if he's right.

I never found Brawl to be really, really campy. I think that depends on the player (and matchup); I have seen some VERY campy matches, however, which happened to be time-outs. Maybe I just don't watch much competitive Smash anymore.

It's too early to even suggest that this game will be campy or not. I only got to played two, two-minute Free For All matches! I can say that Smash 4 feels much like Brawl, though. Don't know if this will change in the future or not, I hope it does! <3

 

[NintendoKnight]

Since they share a studio, here's Max's take on Smash 4:

He's not always right when it comes to mechanics (especially since he knows he's not an expert), but look at how reasonable he is:

Acknowledges that the game speed is genuinely faster at about the same feelings we have all concluded (about 25%~ faster), but focuses on why there are still issues.

Acknowledges that this is an old, old build, and things can still improve.

Acknowledges that Brawl is the best selling entry, and regardless of whether or not he agrees with the design direction, it will still influence the next product vastly.

I won't spoil everything, but it's worth listening to his opinion on it to compare it to the same guy he shares a space with.

The biggest difference between the two is how they presented their impressions:

Matt—Pessimistic, rude, and condescending. Discouraged giving the game a chance and gave it gloom and doom and that it will only be good through a fan made hack. Mentions the game is still an old build, but later disregards that entirely.

Max—Optimistic, understands that the game is different from both Melee AND Brawl, and it always has room to improve since it's an older build. Also he did not attempt to attack Sakurai's character like Matt did. (Real mature)

Max gained more of my respect, Matt lost some of my respect.

I do disagree with the both of them on the competitive level, I loved Brawl. Melee was my least liked of the Smash series. Everyone says Brawl was defensive, but they clearly don't play it the way I play it. Heck, the Japanese competitive scene of Brawl is hyper offensive.

It's all objective. How you play does not determine the game overall. The sad part is, Matt tries to talk as if he's a big competitive Smash player, but I've seen their Smash Bros gameplay... They haven't even hit the upper echelon of Brawl's capabilities, and he criticizes its competitive nature? Yeah, no.

Overall, I remembered why I respect Max. He doesn't present his opinion as fact.

 

[JayJay584]

That Max one is way better. At least he admits that it's all just his opinion and that he isn't the most knowledgeable when it comes to Smash. And it isn't clickbait!

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I agree his video is perfect compared with Matt's video. I think most if all his points are correct and reasonible

 

[Renji64]

Max's video was good but getting use to it doesn't slove the problem. I really hope isn't like brawl.

 

[Heavy C4]

I agree with some of what matt is saying.

Sakurai wants smash to be a party game. He hates people playing a game not the way he envision it to be. Why did he take out l cancel when it was in 64 and melee? why did he add tripping in brawl? Why did he remove the melee air dodge mechanic?

Because he wants the game to be played HIS way. I get the feeling sakurai will do what he wants to make sure there as little skill gap as possible to make sure everyone gets a fair chance of winning. Because it a party game to him.

I played Melee and I never knew about l cancel or wave dashing and I still have more fun than brawl. I played without items and with items, with friends and by myself. I played the game over 2 years before I lost the disk. I played brawl and went through the story mode.

about 2,3 maybe 4 months later, I moved on. The game got boring and I played Meta Knight all the time...before I even knew how broken he was because he was the closest thing to the "Melee" I played as a 8 year old. He was just fast.

Right now, I'm trying to clean my wii laser to read brawl so that I can play Project M. I'm gonna wait and see if smash 4 just make my fears just that, fears. But if worst come to worst, I just play Project M and get a emulator to play Melee.

And honestly, if it takes one video of a person opinons to make you lose respect of a person, you didn't respect him at all.

 

[kylexv]

Where does he get his Pac Man footage from?

The roundtable.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Since they share a studio, here's Max's take on Smash 4:

He's not always right when it comes to mechanics (especially since he knows he's not an expert), but look at how reasonable he is:

Acknowledges that the game speed is genuinely faster at about the same feelings we have all concluded (about 25%~ faster), but focuses on why there are still issues.

Acknowledges that this is an old, old build, and things can still improve.

Acknowledges that Brawl is the best selling entry, and regardless of whether or not he agrees with the design direction, it will still influence the next product vastly.

I won't spoil everything, but it's worth listening to his opinion on it to compare it to the same guy he shares a space with.

I definitely feel like he did a better job than Simmons.

I never lost respect for Matt but I was disappointed in what he was saying. Max on the other hand handled this better.