Matchups?

[Oracle]

Is there a specific list of DK's matchups, like who he does well against, who he doesn't, with a rating?

If not, then this is now DK's matchup discussion thread.

 

[Eisig]

I don't think that we have a specific list for all of DK's match-ups, but in case you haven't seen the all-character match-up guide, here you go:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025)

It's pretty old, but I guess it's better than nothing.

The DK boards should try to collaborate and make an advice driven match-up guide just for DK.

Anyways, I hope that this helped you out a bit. Let's get this thread going as a serious match-up discussion.

 

[Oracle]

Yeah, the all character chart is old and outdated.

Specifically, I wanted to change his matchups for the spacies and fast fallers in general.

 

[otg]

How would you change his matchups for Spacies and FFers? DK can CG them ya, but he get's ***** by them really hard. A Fox/Falco that forces you to approach by camping and doesn't mess up his tech completely ***** DK, you pretty much have to be perfect anytime you get a grab in to make it close. Maybe vs. Falcon you can say it's close to even, but even than Falcon beats up DK pretty hard.

 

[Bailey]

Seriously unless you are a good DK like the 4 in the country then stop trying lol

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It'd probably depend rather heavily on the stage. He's got chain grabs, but they only work on like... Final Destination... he gets waveshined/juggled by Fox, combo'd to death by Falco and outclassed by both.

 

[otg]

**** FD, that's right I said it. It's really overrated and is straight up infinitely better for spacies than for DK. Yeah he gets CG's 0-death there, but good luck getting in 4 grabs in that matchup at 0%. If you do please PM me, because I will move to your town and **** your friends for $$$.

I think DK does pretty good w/ platforms. Tech chasing Uairs/bairs/the rare Dair?, the sweetspot of UpB hits through certain platforms, and he just has a lot more options w/ them to handle camping (especially vs. Falco)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You don't have to grab them at zero though. Pretty much at any percentage works, just start the chain grab from there. Plus it's better Final Destination with hard to get chain grabs than no chain grabs at all.

I find edge guarding there to be easier too. Dunno, it's a sucky match up either way, I'm just generally more comfortable on Final Destination. Might be because the spacies can use platforms to combo DK too, particularly Falco.

 

[otg]

You don't have to grab them at zero though. Pretty much at any percentage works, just start the chain grab from there. Plus it's better Final Destination with hard to get chain grabs than no chain grabs at all.

I find edge guarding there to be easier too. Dunno, it's a sucky match up either way, I'm just generally more comfortable on Final Destination. Might be because the spacies can use platforms to combo DK too, particularly Falco.

You're missing the point. People overhype DK because they go "OMG HE CAN 0-DEATH SPACIES AT 0!!!" when they don't realize that it is easier said than done. DK lacks reliable ways to get grabs in and good spacies will take advantage of that by "SURPRISE" not approaching and camping the **** out of you. Yeah if you get a grab at any percent that's great but this doesn't make DK good against spacies.

Let's put DK back at the top of Low tier where he belongs.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

While I would love to see DK in low tier because he could then be my low tier main, I don't think he's bad enough to belong on low tier, as he's got a few good things going for him.

 

[otg]

True, he is definitely better than the Low tiers... but does he party with the mid tiers? Don't think so. He's in Falco limbo land.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If you could get around the shield thing... DK's got a lot going for him. And the approach too, I guess.

 

[otg]

Yeah DK does have good things going for him, but his weaknesses far outweigh his strengths IMO; especially since there are higher tier characters who do the things he is good at much better than him.

- Slowish
- ****ty shield
- Only a few usable moves
- Terribly predictable approach
- HUGE target, eat's hits for breakfast (note this also contributes to his shield problem)
- No reliable way to get grabs in for his desperately needed CG game.

I mean the list goes on. That being said, I still love the monkey and he is currently my favorite character to use, but I hate this current wave of fanboyism that has been poured onto him since BUM's performance at MLG.

 

[MEXICAN]

Yeah DK does have good things going for him, but his weaknesses far outweigh his strengths IMO; especially since there are higher tier characters who do the things he is good at much better than him.

- Slowish
- ****ty shield
- Only a few usable moves
- Terribly predictable approach
- HUGE target, eat's hits for breakfast (note this also contributes to his shield problem)
- No reliable way to get grabs in for his desperately needed CG game.

I mean the list goes on. That being said, I still love the monkey and he is currently my favorite character to use, but I hate this current wave of fanboyism that has been poured onto him since BUM's performance at MLG.

DK does not belong in low tier. He is fast enough that i wouldn't call him a slow character. And he has a lot of useable moves if you know how to use them. He has more KO moves than just about anybody else in the game (b air, u air, f air, giant punch, b throw, d smash, and up b). He can combo the top tier characters. Yes, they do have the advantage, but that's pretty much what skill with DK is, is having the ability to get that grab. There are a ton of ways to get grabs, you just gotta know when to use which method. His approach isn't that bad. His b air is one of the highest priority aeriel moves in the game and it's easy to spam it in the faces of characters that are tall/slower in the air. As for the shield, just light shield...duh. lol. Oh yeah, and you don't need to chain grab fox/falco to win..it helps, but isn't necessary. If you watch most of my matches/pkmvodka's matches/bum's matches, rarely do any of us really chaingrab. We combo a lot, and it's rarely a 0-death.

I have an idea that might help you out...practice playing fox/falco without trying to grab them. Instead, try to knock them to the floor. Most of your grabs on falco are going to be from tech chasing of some kind, but that starts with knocking him to the ground. It works on fox too, not as well, but works nonetheless. Don't try to grab falco the normal ways, practice knocking him to the floor and then tech chasing. This is also a great opportunity to make use of the dash attack. If when you tech chase, they keep spot dodging you or shining you when you go for the grab, use the dash attack. If they spot dodge, they'll get hit with the dash attack since it's out there forever. If they shine, it'll clank with your dash attack, leaving shield stun on the shine, giving you a free opportunity for a shield grab. If they're under a platform, and they get hit by the dash attack, they'll land on the platform, setting you up for a free u air that can start your combo, or you can just jump up to the platform as close to the edge as possible, and throw out your giant punch for the length of the platform...it's not escapable if done right

 

[Oracle]

Yeah, what mexican said.

I think it does heavily rely on the stage, but in my opinion, vs. Fox on FD is pretty close to even. Not falco, because it's kind of hard to get past the lazers.

 

[otg]

Mexican: This is easier said than done. Yes I'm very well of tech chasing, it's already how I get most of my grabs. And yes I know that DK's game doesn't revolve around 0-death CG's, but I think that people DO believe that it does and there is a misconception about how good DK really is amongst the Smash community.

One thing that I can say about playing DK which has helped my overall game, is that being forced to light shield all the time really pays off for other characters. And MEXICAN, no hating on your skill at all, but I want to see you go to the next tournament in your area and win it just to prove me wrong.

 

[Winston]

Mexican: This is easier said than done. Yes I'm very well of tech chasing, it's already how I get most of my grabs. And yes I know that DK's game doesn't revolve around 0-death CG's, but I think that people DO believe that it does and there is a misconception about how good DK really is amongst the Smash community.

One thing that I can say about playing DK which has helped my overall game, is that being forced to light shield all the time really pays off for other characters. And MEXICAN, no hating on your skill at all, but I want to see you go to the next tournament in your area and win it just to prove me wrong.

I'm pretty sure people who are knowledgeable about Melee understand how hard it is for lower tiered characters to grab space animals. The people who overrate DK based on his ability to combo fastfallers on flat ground (OMG did you see that captain jack video?!?!11) would be those who are less knowledgeable overall, and their opinions aren't really relevant in terms of tier/matchup discussion.

Also, what does Mexican's winning or not winning a tournament have to do with anything? >< I don't think he's saying that DK has an advantage over fox.

 

[otg]

True, I just like talking ****.

 

[cykofox]

hey otg you live somewhat close to m2k. He has stated millions of times that he will accept mm of spacies against his Dk. so your falco against his dk.
see who gets *****.

nom nom nom

I just like talking ****.

 

[otg]

lolllllllllllllllllll

Yeah about that, if anything I would DK ditto MM him.

 

[Strong Badam]

charles dittos any DK's he meets in tournament

trufax.

 

[MEXICAN]

Mexican: This is easier said than done. Yes I'm very well of tech chasing, it's already how I get most of my grabs. And yes I know that DK's game doesn't revolve around 0-death CG's, but I think that people DO believe that it does and there is a misconception about how good DK really is amongst the Smash community.

One thing that I can say about playing DK which has helped my overall game, is that being forced to light shield all the time really pays off for other characters. And MEXICAN, no hating on your skill at all, but I want to see you go to the next tournament in your area and win it just to prove me wrong.

I didn't say DK was top tier, I just said that he doesn't belong in low tier. I agree about final D though. KFC ***** me there, i do much better at other stages. Dreamland and Pokemon stadium are my personal best stages against fox out of the neutrals, battlefield is my worst, yoshi's almost as bad, and then fountain of dreams and then final D....ok, that's not very organized. lol

Neutral stages, try to get stages in this order (if you have a random reset, otherwise you can't do anything either way.)

Best okemon stadium
Dreamland
Final D
Fountain of dreams
Yoshi's story
Worst:Battlefield

This is my opinion...

BTW, starting tomorrow, i'm going to start making a DK guide. It's going to take a very long time to complete, so just bare with me. The DK threads are too disorganized. It's about that time that i put it all together and make some much needed improvements to the existing guide. Hopefully mine replaces that one when i complete it (hopefully it gets stickied)

 

[otg]

Word good **** Mexican. Do you plan on including Matchups in the guide?

 

[Strong Badam]

Donkey Kong is the best character in the game. You can down-B and they can't even attack you. It's so cheap!

 

[MEXICAN]

Donkey Kong is the best character in the game. You can down-B and they can't even attack you. It's so cheap!

No, toad is the best character in the game. No matter what you do to him, you can't hurt him and he'll just hit you for trying

 

[Eisig]

Good luck with your guide Mexican. I'll be looking forward to it.

Anyways, I'm curious what everyone thinks of the DK - Sheik match-up.

Personally, I think most of Sheik's moves (especially her tilts) can absolutely wreck DK, but he is also able to combo her pretty effectively.

Overall, Sheik has a very large advantage in my opinion, but a smart DK can put up a decent fight.

Also, what specific advice do you all have for this match-up and DK vs. Marth?

Thanks in advance.