Matchup Thread

[Scythe]

t's a real lame matchup. Lasers are still good, you just have to bait him and outspeed him. Also your combos and edgeguards must be crisp since DDD can just throw you off the stage and hit you wit ha waddle dee and there goes your stock

 

[Tero.]

So little postatge so little time

Do any of you guys fight some good Dedede's? a friend picked him up and his f-tilt and u-tilt and grabs wreck me in so many ways. approaching is difficult because of grabs, blaster situational because of the Doo's and Dee's shining them doesn't seem to help too much either. Any advice on how to take down a Dedede

maybe this can help you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdt_9h8BsFQ

 

[N00B64]

I've noticed that a lot of people say wolf would be bad against squirtle. whether that is true or not you have to remember one thing, Up-B pushes, not just launches.

against luigi squirtle, and even lucas, wolf's Up-B can push them far without them even having 60% damage.

Just wanted to point that out if people don't remember or didn't know.

 

[WumpaWolfy]

Does anyone have any tips for the zelda match up?

 

[Scythe]

overwhelm her

 

[AbstractLogic]

Does anyone have any tips for the zelda match up?

Honestly man you dominate this matchup with mobility. Just use space bair/fair and try to keep her above you and the rest follows.

 

[\Apples]

Uair is hella good vs Zelda if you can get her in the air. She has nothing that can cover below at angles while airborne and she's free. Bait her double jumps and go to town.

More than that though, as others have said, just don't let her breathe. Don't let her get away. Keep her uncomfortable. Wolf has plenty of tools to accomplish that. Be patient with her in the neutral game, you're faster. Then when pressure is applied, it must be continually applied and you cannot let up. And again, your superior speed is going to enable this continuous pressure.

 

[brent2711]

Anything on the Kirby matchup on platform stages? I body Kirby in FD, Smashville, and the like, but in Pokemon, Battlefield and the standard platforms, I have a hard time approaching. I've recently conceded to camping him with blaster, shield grabbing, and punishing with dash attack and fsmash because I cannot for the love of god get an aerial approach on him.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Hey guys! I was wondering: In which way am I supposed to DI Wolf's throws? At early percents to not get combo'ed, and at high percents to not get killed. If I'm not mistaken, you're supposed to DI his backthrow always away to evade both of these outcomes. Could someone help me out here? I'd really appreciate it .

Also, where do I DI his shine? Away from him to his back? Depending on which side, max that side + away from him?

 

[Spiffykins]

Hey guys! I was wondering: In which way am I supposed to DI Wolf's throws? At early percents to not get combo'ed, and at high percents to not get killed. If I'm not mistaken, you're supposed to DI his backthrow always away to evade both of these outcomes. Could someone help me out here? I'd really appreciate it .

Also, where do I DI his shine? Away from him to his back? Depending on which side, max that side + away from him?

You're right about Wolf's back throw, but watch out for forward throw and down throw as well, if Wolf uses those and catches you with the wrong DI he will probably get a follow up. Primarily he'll be using f throw and back throw for grab > Flash combos. And don't bother DI-ing up throw at all, it will only make it easier for Wolf to follow up.

Away + down on shine is usually ideal, but if you're playing Pit, Wolf will probably get follow ups anyway....at the very least, there's usually no reason not to do it, it will make Wolf work harder for combos. At really high percents, you may want to consider up+in DI on shine since that can send you too high for Wolf to jump up and hit you, and it will pretty much guarantee he won't be able to Flash you out of shine (again, at high percent only).

Now tell us all how to destroy Pit, it's only fair

 

[TSM ZeRo]

You're right about Wolf's back throw, but watch out for forward throw and down throw as well, if Wolf uses those and catches you with the wrong DI he will probably get a follow up. Primarily he'll be using f throw and back throw for grab > Flash combos. And don't bother DI-ing up throw at all, it will only make it easier for Wolf to follow up.

Away + down on shine is usually ideal, but if you're playing Pit, Wolf will probably get follow ups anyway....at the very least, there's usually no reason not to do it, it will make Wolf work harder for combos. At really high percents, you may want to consider up+in DI on shine since that can send you too high for Wolf to jump up and hit you, and it will pretty much guarantee he won't be able to Flash you out of shine (again, at high percent only).

Now tell us all how to destroy Pit, it's only fair

Thanks a lot for the info!

From what I've seen, a good Wolf (Such as Chillin) will corner and overwhelm Pit in order to beat him. You need to have a good tech skill to avoid being grabbed and platforms help a lot for combos. In general, combo DI is the same, DI away! (But that's pretty much with almost every combo in PM though!). I'll say more as I learn the MU more this weekend when playing Chillin

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Thanks a lot for the info!

From what I've seen, a good Wolf (Such as Chillin) will corner and overwhelm Pit in order to beat him. You need to have a good tech skill to avoid being grabbed and platforms help a lot for combos. In general, combo DI is the same, DI away! (But that's pretty much with almost every combo in PM though!). I'll say more as I learn the MU more this weekend when playing Chillin

Is there a particular tourney where you'll be playing him?

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Is there a particular tourney where you'll be playing him?

supposedly it was gonna be showdown yesterday, I won, but we didn't meet up. I played him in friendlies and I won 1 game, he beat me the other 1, then on game 3 he SD'ed at the last stock at 0%. So can't say much! He's very good.

 

[Matthew]

nice thread.

wolf does pretty good against many chars, mainly on chars that u can shield combo a lot. example, charizard, koopa, dk, etc. also they are easier to be hit by side-b and B-air (which are pretty hard to connect against small chars).

i feel pretty confident against these chars
king ddd, koopa, charizard, ganon, donkey kong, rob and maybe snake (havent played against skilled snake but i will feel confident if i do)

now where i feel very unsured is against:
squirtle
jigglypuff
diddy
luigi
pikachu

but overall, wolf is pretty awesome against everyone else, rly easy to combo ppl, i like it a lot. he is not my main but its on my top chars and is the one i use the most (i main peach).

Wolf can definatley apply a lot of shield pressure against characters like charizard and DK, but in the wolf v koopa matchup, you should watch out for the up-b out of shield, because the few frames of starting lag grant him invincibility, and it can clank with wolf's shine and out prioritize his aerials.

 

[t3chn0g0at]

I honestly feel that wolf's only truly terrible matchup is Mewtwo. Everyone else can be reasonably dealt with.

 

[Badwolf]

ZSS., Wolf is my best counter out of the characters I play. How do you play this match-up?

 

[t3chn0g0at]

Admittedly, I don't have much experience in this matchup, but it seems to me like ZSS is somewhat akin to Sheik. However, luckily for us, she doesn't really have great oos options (as far as I know-- I could definitely be wrong here). So dd a bit, throw out some lasers, and try to get up close. Once you get a feel for her combo weight you should be able to get her off stage somewhat easily, and then force an edge guarding situation. From there it's best to hold the ledge and force her to jump, which you can punish.

 

[Omega Male]

I would say that Wolf is Jigglypuffs only good match up just because of his fall speed.

What do you guys think about Bowser and Tink?

 

[bellocan]

I would say that Wolf is Jigglypuffs only good match up just because of his fall speed.

What do you guys think about Bowser and Tink?

I play a fairly competent Bowser in my region and it's mostly revolved around baiting out an up-b out of shield and spacing him out. I find that if you just go balls to the wall against Bowser you can easily get wrecked by armor. Also don't underestimate the blaster even though Bowser can armor through them. Oh yeah, watch out for a ledge hop side-b.

 

[Omega Male]

I play a fairly competent Bowser in my region and it's mostly revolved around baiting out an up-b out of shield and spacing him out. I find that if you just go balls to the wall against Bowser you can easily get wrecked by armor. Also don't underestimate the blaster even though Bowser can armor through them. Oh yeah, watch out for a ledge hop side-b.

Maplestory! thanks btw

 

[Segarin]

I feel like Wolf - Luigi is a really big pain in the ass. I don't even think that this matchup is necessarily in favor of Luigi, I just think its extremely annoying cuz he seems to be able to break up any kind of combo potential and u have to basically just sit back and camp him until he makes a mistake. Anyone else feel the same way or am I just using the wrong tools to follow up? I prefer to go balls out (even tho it can be quite reckless) and I just never have any fun playing a Luigi...

 

[leekslap]

So... what are the bad MUs to really look out for. I was a Brawl Wolf but I might just switch from Ganon to Wolf again. I main Pit and DK currently.

 

[MANZilla]

Does DK destroy spacies in general? With wolf its hard for me to play neutral considering his armored roll closes so much distance and his grab range is space jam reach. His invincible f-tilt is amazing. Any tips for handling this matchup because I would assume Wolf gets treated the worst against DK out of the spacies

 

[leekslap]

Does DK destroy spacies in general? With wolf its hard for me to play neutral considering his armored roll closes so much distance and his grab range is space jam reach. His invincible f-tilt is amazing. Any tips for handling this matchup because I would assume Wolf gets treated the worst against DK out of the spacies

Well I second DK right now but hopefully this helps. You have to be very bait and punish in this MU. Try to shoot alot of lasers to clank his attacks and punish with something like a dash attack. Once you get any move on DK, its almost free combos because of his fall speed and size and recovery. Focus on gimping him apart from what Wolf usually does although energems are alot easier to do on DK. Or you can force him to jump over your laser and Wolf Flash him in the face, although I'm sure if it's possible. Speaking of Wolf Flash, good DKs stay ground so, if a DK is edgeguarding you you can Wolf Flash him because you are in a spot where if he comes off stage and meteors you, he dies too and dash attack just barely misses. When he grabs you, your techs and DI have to be spot on and smart to get away. Stay near the center of the stage as much as possible.

And for your other question, I know Falco is unwinnable for DK. I don't really play Fox but DK has never shown in bad Fox MUs thread so maybe its slightly in Fox's favor because he can combo DK into oblivion. If you want an anti spacie I'd say Samus, Mewtwo, Sonic and Yoshi are a good place to start or alot better than DK lol

 

[MANZilla]

i found out about Sami

Well I second DK right now but hopefully this helps. You have to be very bait and punish in this MU. Try to shoot alot of lasers to clank his attacks and punish with something like a dash attack. Once you get any move on DK, its almost free combos because of his fall speed and size and recovery. Focus on gimping him apart from what Wolf usually does although energems are alot easier to do on DK. Or you can force him to jump over your laser and Wolf Flash him in the face, although I'm sure if it's possible. Speaking of Wolf Flash, good DKs stay ground so, if a DK is edgeguarding you you can Wolf Flash him because you are in a spot where if he comes off stage and meteors you, he dies too and dash attack just barely misses. When he grabs you, your techs and DI have to be spot on and smart to get away. Stay near the center of the stage as much as possible.

And for your other question, I know Falco is unwinnable for DK. I don't really play Fox but DK has never shown in bad Fox MUs thread so maybe its slightly in Fox's favor because he can combo DK into oblivion. If you want an anti spacie I'd say Samus, Mewtwo, Sonic and Yoshi are a good place to start or alot better than DK lol

i found out about samus today LOL

 

[PichuFreak]

I've started getting into the competitive side of PM with my two friends. One plays Meta Knight who just Uairs my wolf to oblivion and just has superior priority. Any tips?

The other plays a campy Sheik who tech chases and GIMPs with ease. This MU is particularly difficult for me. Any thoughts?

Also how do I avoid getting barrier grabbed? normally i Nair->shine but anything else gets punished

 

[leekslap]

I've started getting into the competitive side of PM with my two friends. One plays Meta Knight who just Uairs my wolf to oblivion and just has superior priority. Any tips?

The other plays a campy Sheik who tech chases and GIMPs with ease. This MU is particularly difficult for me. Any thoughts?

Also how do I avoid getting barrier grabbed? normally i Nair->shine but anything else gets punished

First of all, if you're new, get your techs down perfect. L canceling, fast falling, shine, etc. I personally only have a little trouble with wavedashing but everything else is perfect. As for the Meta Knight MU, no offense, but you'd have to beyond god awful to lose that MU! ( derp its still offensive ) Wolf lasers go straight through all of MK's attacks bar dash attack! Wolf is a fast faller and decently heavy so you can basically crouch cancel through all of attacks! MK is a fast faller so juggling is really easy! He's also realy light so an energem is the end for him! Wolf has the best recovery of the spacies so gimping isn't as easy! You know what? Drop Wolf. Wolf requires so much tech skill and precision. You don't even have the very basics down! Miss an energem and the best case scenario is an extreme punish! If you can't CC then how in the world are you going to waveshine! Not the type of character for a scrub. Try Mario. Everyone uses him.

 

[InfinityCollision]

That was entirely unnecessary.

I've started getting into the competitive side of PM with my two friends. One plays Meta Knight who just Uairs my wolf to oblivion and just has superior priority. Any tips?

The other plays a campy Sheik who tech chases and GIMPs with ease. This MU is particularly difficult for me. Any thoughts?

Also how do I avoid getting barrier grabbed? normally i Nair->shine but anything else gets punished

MK is juggle bait since he's a fast faller as well. He can't clank lasers easily but he's so small and maneuverable that it doesn't matter too much. Give him a taste of his own medicine with uthrow > uairs/fairs, shine/dash attack off a hit confirm into aerials, etc. Crouch cancel incoming hits at lower %s, he's very susceptible to CCing into counterattacks.

Sheik is a rough matchup in general for new players because Sheik performs so well at that skill level, and you're fighting an uphill battle with a very tech-heavy character. The key is that Sheik can't safely approach you - she has to wait for you to do something she can punish. Crowd her with lasers and crossups, or try and bait her into attacking so that you can punish.

Nair into shine is a really good option for shield pressure and avoiding shield grabs. Crossing up on shield so that you land behind them helps you avoid potential OoS options. If you want to explore Wolf's other options for shield pressure, I believe the shield pressure thread discusses a few of them.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

I've been playing against an extremely good Peach recently and I'm having trouble consistently performing against him with Wolf. I feel the matchup can go either way, however I'm having difficulty teching away from Peach. It feels like Peach is always chasing me with either a dash attack or a grab. What are some good tips when playing against Peach, I know U-Smash is the best kill move because she's a floatie.

 

[leekslap]

That was entirely unnecessary.


MK is juggle bait since he's a fast faller as well. He can't clank lasers easily but he's so small and maneuverable that it doesn't matter too much. Give him a taste of his own medicine with uthrow > uairs/fairs, shine/dash attack off a hit confirm into aerials, etc. Crouch cancel incoming hits at lower %s, he's very susceptible to CCing into counterattacks.

Sheik is a rough matchup in general for new players because Sheik performs so well at that skill level, and you're fighting an uphill battle with a very tech-heavy character. The key is that Sheik can't safely approach you - she has to wait for you to do something she can punish. Crowd her with lasers and crossups, or try and bait her into attacking so that you can punish.

Nair into shine is a really good option for shield pressure and avoiding shield grabs. Crossing up on shield so that you land behind them helps you avoid potential OoS options. If you want to explore Wolf's other options for shield pressure, I believe the shield pressure thread discusses a few of them.

If you're talking to me, I'm sorry. I try to come off as nice but instead it's a little rude.

 

[InfinityCollision]

More than a little rude actually, there wasn't anything remotely nice about that post.

I've been playing against an extremely good Peach recently and I'm having trouble consistently performing against him with Wolf. I feel the matchup can go either way, however I'm having difficulty teching away from Peach. It feels like Peach is always chasing me with either a dash attack or a grab. What are some good tips when playing against Peach, I know U-Smash is the best kill move because she's a floatie.

Constant pressure. Don't give her space to pull a turnip, shut down her movement options with lasers. You have to respect her a bit when she's got a turnip in hand though. She has no answer to well positioned uairs once you get her above you; fair can get you kills as well but you'll want to space it carefully if she's out of hitstun.

 

[EpixAura]

I'm sort of stating what's already been said here, but Falco really does solidly beat Wolf. Wolf and Falco can both combo each other to oblivion and edgeguard easily enough, but Falco just has a clear advantage in the neutral game with better range on his aerials and more effective lasers. Wolf also has trouble getting anything other than a tech-chase vs. Falco at low percents. I feel like Falco can also edgeguard Wolf with very little thought involved. A well timed ledgehop Bair (especially with invincibility) beats out so many of Wolf's recovery options, and he still often has time to react if Wolf makes it past him because of Wolf's endlag on his recoveries. On the other hand, once Wolf starts juggling Falco, the shoe is on the other foot. There's not much I can say about how to play the matchup since I usually play it from the Falco side of things, though.

Marth is also a bad matchup for Wolf, but by no means too difficult. Marth can do his usual anti-spacie stuff, and it seems like Wolf's techroll isn't particularly great (perhaps just my imagination), leading to a lot of easy tech-chases, so the mileage Marth gets from his grab is ridiculous. Wolf also lacks some classic spacie options vs. Marth as well, such as invincible ledgehop Bair as the hitbox doesn't have much vertical range. That said, Wolf's shield pressure seems a lot safer than Fox/Falco's, and if Marth is ever in the air above Wolf he's in for a very frustrating time, and Wolf's shine does just that.
Generally vs. Marth Wolf just wants to play the patience game. I rarely find myself using laser in this matchup as Marth can close the gap easily and his dash and dash attack animations put him very low to the ground. Generally they are used as a tool to remind him that you have a projectile, and that he has to approach. Always pay attention to how careful the opposing Marth is about his doublejump. If he frequently uses them to escape bad situations, do everything you can to bait it. For Marth's that like to poke with Dtilt in the neutral, Crouch Cancelling is your friend. Generally if Marth grabs ledge to edgeguard the most he can do to you if you recover to the stage is get a grab, and odds are if you're off the stage he's past the point where a grab is a potential 0-death, so this isn't too bad. On that note, don't be afraid to shield should you get to around 140% or more. Marth's throws can't do too much damage to you at those percents.

Meta Knight is a frustrating matchup for Wolf, and a frustrating character in general. Crouch Cancelling is your best friend in this matchup. He's very proficient in gimping Wolf and has plenty of options to get him offstage. Play the neutral game very similar to how you would play vs. Marth. The main difference is that you should focus more on Crouch Cancelling. Shield pressure isn't as effective vs. MK since he has Nair OoS in addition to his grab, and has very quick rolls to get him out of the situation. Like Marth (or really anyone), you want him above you to start string Uairs together. However, make sure not to get too greedy because MK's Dair gives him options even in terrible situations like that. If you can bait it, though, it's a free punish. MK can Uair combo you the same way you can combo him, but the trick is to remember that a lot of MK's moves, Uair especially, deal pitiful damage. Don't let the stray hits and frustration factor of them get to you, and keep playing patiently with plenty of dashdancing and a few lasers if he tries to outcamp you. If you find yourself offstage, try to react to what MK does. If the ledge is open, take it, but if he grabs ledge, he can often react to what you do and can get a free grab of of your recoveries endlag and throw you right back off. Just keep in mind that it doesn't take much to kill MK as he is both light and very susceptible to juggles, and Wolf has no shortage of kill moves. Especially ones that you can Crouch Cancel into.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

I know some advice has been given about the Marth match-up, but I haven't seen anything about how to combo him. I've been having some trouble getting consistent combo follow-ups and I'm struggling to find guaranteed kill setups. Appreciate any help.

 

[Yashichi]

How would Wolf go about dealing with Lucas and Ness? I know his reflector could be used decently against Ness, and to a smaller extent Lucas, but is there anything that can be done to get past Ness's FAir wall or Lucas's everything? I play Wolf, Ness and Lucas and I can't think of something that Wolf could do to really dominate the two kids. Ness has a knack for getting out of juggles with his DAir/NAir and Lucas kind of just seems to do whatever and gets away with it. Is there something I'm missing about Wolf?

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

How would Wolf go about dealing with Lucas and Ness? I know his reflector could be used decently against Ness, and to a smaller extent Lucas, but is there anything that can be done to get past Ness's FAir wall or Lucas's everything? I play Wolf, Ness and Lucas and I can't think of something that Wolf could do to really dominate the two kids. Ness has a knack for getting out of juggles with his DAir/NAir and Lucas kind of just seems to do whatever and gets away with it. Is there something I'm missing about Wolf?

I feel like forward wavelanding laser approaches work well, staying on top of both those characters is the best option in my opinion; never do you want to adopt the defensive position. You can shine juggle and combo Lucas easily, however I believe Ness is floatier so I assume U-Air chains would work nicely?