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UPDATED 11/01/14
Some of the threads are getting a little cluttered with questions about how to fight certain characters and getting a little off topic, so let's use this thread for matchup questions and answers.
If you have trouble in certain matchups, give us footage or whatever you think is problematic, and we'll try to share our experience/strategies to help you out. If you have a solid grasp on what works against certain characters too, please feel free to chime in.
Every once in a while I'll update the OP with categorized info, possibly make a guide that can be updated (or crowd-edited in a google doc or something) just so we have more organized resources here.
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Dark Pit
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Dr. Mario
Duck Hunt
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Greninja
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Little Mac
Lucario
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Mega Man
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Mii Fighters
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Olimar
Pac-Man
Palutena
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
R.O.B.
Robin
Rosalina & Luma
Samus
Sheik
Shulk
Sonic
Toon Link
Villager
Wario
Wii Fit Trainer
Yoshi
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Some of the threads are getting a little cluttered with questions about how to fight certain characters and getting a little off topic, so let's use this thread for matchup questions and answers.
If you have trouble in certain matchups, give us footage or whatever you think is problematic, and we'll try to share our experience/strategies to help you out. If you have a solid grasp on what works against certain characters too, please feel free to chime in.
Every once in a while I'll update the OP with categorized info, possibly make a guide that can be updated (or crowd-edited in a google doc or something) just so we have more organized resources here.
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Dark Pit
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Dr. Mario
Duck Hunt
Falco
Fox
Ganondorf
Greninja
Ike
So, Ike can short hop nair, and this covers a lot of space and if this hits you, it can set up for Ike gimmicks. Also watch out for rolling too much since Ike is one of the best at punishing with up smash (covers both sides rather than one from f-smash).
Ike can not really go deep for edge guarding so always recover low. Watch out for ledge drop bair and run off fair or nair as these are his main edge guards.
So always spam missiles. This covers a lot of his approaches. He has to jump or roll and his roll isn't the best. Missiles cover his side b and all ground approaches though.
Ikes mainly play mind games and they may fake out approaches so watch out for that. One notable thing to mention is that if you get hit high, good Ikes will simply jump and fast fall over and over and essentially shark from under you so go for ledge. This gimmick can be tricky at times since they don't over commit, and you are a sitting duck in the air. Up air is scary. This juggles you and has kill potential.
Alternatively, you can juggle Ike easily, though this is a universal fact for all matchups versus Ike. Your up air is sooooooo good here, it isn't fair.
Maintain consistent pressure with tilts and missiles and zair. Always screw with Ike's momentum because an Ike with momentum messes with your head and puts too much fear in you, but don't be brash because Ike punishes too offensive play. If you can keep ike from getting momentum, then you will be able to whittle him enough that he gets impatient and takes huge risks whereas you can pick off a kill with charged shot or get a grab, and edge guard.
One thing to mention is that Ike has terrible horizontal recovery when low and if you can nair him when he is over the ledge, he is most likely a goner.
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Little Mac
Anyway, in my limited experience playing against Mac, the most basic thing I've found works is to just pressure him with projectiles to force an engage, and then try to block it and grab him out of it. Some of his engages (I don't know the exact moves, I've never actually played him) can actually just be stopped by grabbing him out of the attack. As soon as you have him, just try to throw him off the stage and keep him there, his recovery is so bad that if you manage to attack him after he double jumps, he's usually pretty much dead.
If he's comboing or juggling you, remember that we have vectoring instead of DI now, so you can actually steer away from him to get out of his stuff, then just try to go for the ledge and shoot a few projectiles at him to get him a bit closer to center stage so you can get back up there. Mac's not great at playing around the edges, so don't go towards him when he goes back to center stage, as he'll be at an advantage there. This also means that you shouldn't approach a grounded Mac from the air, just because he's bad in the air doesn't mean he's bad anti-air.
If you're fearing his KO punch, wait about 6 seconds. After this window of time, any damage he takes will take his KO punch away.
Lucario
Lucinahttps://www.dropbox.com/s/c1no8lainkxo2z9/Smash 4 Lucario chart.xlsx?dl=
In Smash 4 there is a 9% priority rule. If something does 9% more it will outprioritize the other move.
With that in mind a Lucario at:
We've lost a lot of Air options from the transition from Brawl and gained grab combos and Aura is even more insane. Once we get strong enough to camp it is going to be difficult to approach us.
- 32% with a fresh fully charged Aura Sphere will beat your regular Missile (5%).
- 88% with a fresh fully charged Aura Sphere will beat your Super Missile (10%).
- 8% with a fresh fully charged Aura Sphere beats your uncharged Charge Shot (3%).
- We will never beat a fully charge Charge Shot unless you horribly stale it :x
Misc. stuffs.
I personally feel this matchup is in Lucario's favor, but I need to do more research.
- Lucario's Force Palm is really good at punishing anything laggy such as landings and your roll and it grows in size when we take damage. Since Samus is floaty we can punish landing with our FSmash, FTilt, DTilt, Aura Sphere, etc. fairly well. Force Palm can also be used to cancel projectiles and hit you at the same time if spaced right.
- At the center of an Omega stage in training mode a Lucario's FSmash kills when both characters are at 89% with no DI. Both hits of USmash at 92%. DSmash and BAir at 104%. Fully Charged Aura Sphere at 129%. Sweetspot UTilt at 147%. Start of UAir at 110%. Double Team at 100%.
- The biggest thing we Lucarios probably have to worry about is that 26% damage fully charged Charge Shot of yours. Otherwise... it'll be really hard to approach us on the ground. You can harass us below us if you space UAir properly and to a lesser extent your Screw Attack, but that's pretty darn risky.
- If the Lucario knows what they are doing watch out for pivots. For some reason Lucario's horizontal grab distance is like 2-3 times greater than his regular grab range (lol Sakurai).
- As mentioned before Lucario's UTilt at low % leads to a number of combos depending on if it is sweetspotted or not.
- So in short keep us off the ground and don't let us harass you with Aura Sphere. Don't be grabbing the ledge twice because at higher percents Aura Sphere WILL hit you.
- We need to do more research, but our Aura Sphere charge can lead to a number of shinanegans. Good Lucarios will master reversing their Aura Sphere in the air, so watch out for that.
- We're short, so hitting and spacing against us with ZAir will be tricky.
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Mega Man
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Mii Fighters
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Olimar
Pac-Man
Palutena
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
R.O.B.
Robin
Rosalina & Luma
Against Rosalina, you have to headshot her. If they stay grounded, you just have to shorthop and either charge shot or heavy missile (shoot slightly after apex of shorthop for headshot). Now the problem is when they're jumping or crouching. When jumping, you can still use Charge shot and tag her at the toes, for crouching, i'd suggest zair. Zair is also one of your best tools in this one.
As for downb, shoot a full jump slow missle, then short hop charge blast if you see them down b to punish.
I feel like against rosaline, you hqve to have the charged shot ready to punish with, so absolutely do charge it. I wouldn't neglect samus' s projectiles, even if rosalina can nullify them for the sole fact that this gives us some sort of control over our opponents head. I believe we need this as this prevents overly aggresive play from rosalina, and may pot3ntially give us the time we need to chargeup if they waste time using down-b.
I do not agree that separating the two are that important. And I also disagree with how you say we should do it. In fast, that should not even be a focus in this match up. Luma can come back to rosalina so easy, that splitting them up won't even matter if they voluntarily do so on their own. And even if we wanted to, d-smash is pretty bad in this game, not to mention the lag if we m7ss and the difficulty to hit with it in the first pkace. Up b needs to be set up, so that is a tough option. Up air also requires set up, so difficult option.
I believe that rosalina cannot set up luma in a way that will hurt us enough that we can waste no time. In fact, rosalina should be careful to even set up luma. If luma is too far and we get a grab, we combo off of down throw with fair or up air. If we approach aerially and she sends out luma prematurely, then we get an easy punish. If she simply waits, we chsrge up and missile camp. Luma isn't as good as we might think, but we shouldn't get careless. Star bits can be seen coming, and can be punishable if we are too close to them. Luma shot has lag which we can capitalize on. Calling luma back also takes time.
Samus
Sheik
Sheki isn't too bad, but she is hard. We can take more hits than she can so our advantage lies there. We have the option to camp, and we have a combo off of d-thrown. If we get the grabs which we are supposed to get, then all is well. Otherwise, we can simply tilt and play keep away. We may get grabbed, but just move for the ledge and we will be fine. Dont jump from the ledge. Cover Sheiks landings with projectiles and fire charged shots liberally, but don't be obvious. Maintain projectile pressure on landings and recoveries. Do not overcommit to an up-b kill since you are likely to miss and get punished. Dont fear needles if you are trading projectiles. Punish needles with charged shot if you canread the throw. F tilt is good, so spam it if sheik is close. Use it to cover ground approaches if you don't want t o whiff a grab. Aerial sheik approaches can be covered with retreating aerials or pivot grabs.
WhEn sheik is at ledge, if you cant comfortable stand your ground at ledge, just run and spam missiles. U tilt covers ledge hop and ledge jump. Reaction is what you have to do at ledge, or you can simply spam u tilt qnd hope they get hit... the match up shouldn't be too hard if you play patient and punish with charged shot. Charged shot is your main kill move here.
The matchup isn't as skewed as 1-9 for samus. I believe samus can handle sheik much better than the rest of the cast.
Shulk
I do have some word of advice for shulk, though not greninja, as I haven't played against him as much. You want to pressure them into jumping. Now key point is to not let them nair you. They recover fast from nair and can probably jab you before you can shield grab. And don't think about punishing them if they know how to nair and land behind you. So you have to meet them in air and catch them with fair. Also for homing missiles, you can cancel into them from any dash. The best thing you can do is change up dashing forward or backward homing missiles, keeping somewhat mobile. Even if they counter, you can just punish with charge shot. Also incorporate zairs as that's your best aerial. Also, constantly find moments to charge up, you can always grab out of charge (R+A or L) or jump (R+Jump) if they're jumping in on you to meet them with fair.
Also if the person is in speed mode, the thing they're going for the most are grabs, so counter this with shorthop dair, or have a missile out before they fully change Monado arts.
Sonic
Toon Link
Villager
Wario
Wii Fit Trainer
Yoshi
With Yoshi, this dude is deceptively fast, and all his moves put you at disadvantage. You're launched high up and Yoshi is eager to KO via double jump uair or catching you with a fair spike. He can also run, sh air dodge pretty well and he's somehow safe after his aerials from a certain height. He doesn't have good grab or roll options though, and you can kind of outspace him for the most part. But if he gets his game going, just try to get to the ledge — DO NOT TRADE air to air, it's never in your favor. He's heavy too, and his recovery is hard to predict if they're smart, so KOing is a problem. Try to rack up damage as much as you can and go for charge shot/fsmash KOs. He's a monster in the air.
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
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