Matchup Chart Project 2015 - Calling Ganondorf Mains!

[Zareidriel]

Hello Ganondorf boards,

I'm Zareidriel. Over in this thread a guy called Assassannerr made a matchup chart, and asked people to help fill it out. It seems like it would be a cool thing to have. With once glance you could have a rough idea of a matchup. It won't be perfect, but for our first go at it in 2015 we're aiming for "somewhat functional."

So here's what I'm going to do. Go to every Character Discussion board, and ask the folks there if they wouldn't mind contributing. To submit one vote, you'll have to fill out one of these:

////////////******
Bowser
Bowser Jr
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Duck Hunt
Falco
Fox
Mr. Game & Watch
Ganondorf
Greninja
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Little Mac
Lucario
Luigi
Mario
Dr. Mario
Marth
Lucina
Metaknight
Ness
Olimar
Palutena
Pikachu
Pit & Dark Pit
Peach
Zelda
R.O.B.
Robin
Rosalina
Samus
Sheik
Shulk
Toon Link
Villager
Wario
Wii Fit Trainer
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus
Megaman
Pacman
Sonic
Ryu
Roy
Mewtwo
Lucas
Brawler
Swordfighter
Gunner
******//////////


Mark each character with a + for a match where Ganondorf HAS THE ADVANTAGE
Mark each character with a - for a match where Ganondorf HAS THE DISADVANTAGE
Mark each character with a number 0 for a match you feel is very even.

NOTE THAT I AM ONLY TAKING VOTES FROM MEMBERS WITH Ganondorf IN THEIR PROFILE BAR. It can be as either "Wii U Main" or "3DS Main". But if Ganondorf is in neither one of those slots when I count the votes on Friday, Nov 13, it won't be counted.

(Yes, for the avid democrats out there, that means you can vote for one other character as well.)

Like I said, they won't be perfect, and each board will probably be a little biased toward their own respective character. But the results should be interesting regardless.

If this thing is successful maybe we'll do a revised version in 2016.

Thanks very much for participating! We need as many votes as possible for each character so please submit a ballot!

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Considering that no two people agree on virtually any match-up right now, I feel like this project will be dubious at best.

 

[Zareidriel]

Yeah it's gonna be dubious. But hey you're Ganondorf so that should be fine with you, right? ;]

I'm fully aware of the risks and a result that could be completely janky. Call me an optimist but I feel like there's a pretty good chance that it could be semi-semi-accurate.

 

[adom4]

Ganondorf beats everybody, end of thread.

Spoiler

Seriously though here are my votes:

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong -
Duck Hunt 0
Falco -
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf - - - - - - - - -
Greninja -
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac 0
Lucario ?
Luigi -
Mario -
Dr. Mario 0
Marth -
Lucina 0
Metaknight -
Ness 0
Olimar 0
Palutena +
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach -
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin -
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link 0
Villager -
Wario +
Wii Fit Trainer ?
Yoshi 0
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman -
Sonic -
Ryu -
Roy +
Mewtwo +
Lucas -
Brawler ?
Swordfighter +
Gunner ?

 

[Zam053]

A question: Can you vote on the MUs you know or you need to vote on every one of then?/ Because I don't know **** about some characters, and most of the is just theorycraft.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I guess this is what I would say:

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr 0
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong -
Duck Hunt 0
Falco -
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf 0
Greninja -
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby 0
Link -
Little Mac 0
Lucario 0
Luigi -
Mario 0
Dr. Mario +
Marth -
Lucina -
Metaknight -
Ness -
Olimar 0
Palutena +
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach -
Zelda 0
R.O.B. 0
Robin 0
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link 0
Villager -
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer ?
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman -
Sonic -
Ryu -
Roy 0
Mewtwo +
Lucas -
Brawler -
Swordfighter +
Gunner -

 

[Zareidriel]

Nah, if you don't know much feel free to put a 0. It's no problem. Just try and not overuse the 0's because they don't help very much with the voting.

Thanks, Scarlet Jile. You're the first voter of the Matchup Chart Project. :]

 

[adom4]

Nah, if you don't know much feel free to put a 0. It's no problem. Just try and not overuse the 0's because they don't help very much with the voting.

Thanks, Scarlet Jile. You're the first voter of the Matchup Chart Project. :]

I voted too (in the spoilers).

 

[Zareidriel]

Oh whoops I didnt even notice lol.

 

[Zam053]

OK, the ones I mark with ? beside the 0 is a MU I don't know anything about it.

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon -
Charizard +
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong -
Duck Hunt +
Falco -
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf 0
Greninja 0 (?)
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario 0
Luigi 0
Mario -
Dr. Mario -
Marth -
Lucina 0
Metaknight 0
Ness -
Olimar 0
Palutena 0 (?)
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit 0 (?)
Peach -
Zelda 0
R.O.B. 0
Robin 0
Rosalina -
Samus 0 (?)
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link -
Villager -
Wario +
Wii Fit Trainer 0 (?)
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman -
Sonic 0
Ryu -
Roy -
Mewtwo +
Lucas 0 (?)
Brawler 0 (?)
Swordfighter 0 (?)
Gunner -

 

[verbatim]

////////////******
Bowser: +
Bowser Jr: +
Captain Falcon: 0
Charizard: 0
Diddy Kong: 0
Donkey Kong: -
Duck Hunt: -
Falco: -
Fox: 0
Mr. Game & Watch: +
Ganondorf: 0
Greninja: -
Ike: +
Jigglypuff: -
King Dedede: +
Kirby: -
Link: -
Little Mac: 0
Lucario: +
Luigi: 0
Mario: -
Dr. Mario: 0
Marth: -
Lucina: -
Metaknight: -
Ness: -
Olimar: +
Palutena: +
Pikachu: -
Pit & Dark Pit: 0
Peach: -
Zelda: 0
R.O.B.: 0
Robin: 0
Rosalina: -
Samus: -
Sheik: -
Shulk: 0
Toon Link: -
Villager: -
Wario: 0
Wii Fit Trainer: -
Yoshi: -
Zero Suit Samus: -
Megaman: -
Pacman: +
Sonic: -
Ryu: +
Roy: -
Mewtwo: 0
Lucas: 0
Brawler: -
Swordfighter: 0
Gunner: -
******//////////


It should be noted that - 0 + don't account for huge differences. For instance, when I say that Ganondorf loses to Ness, it's a slight loss, +1 Ness or 55/45 advantage Ness (take your pick), especially relative to Pikachu, who honestly has a +5 or 80/20 (take your pick) advantage against Ganondorf (I honestly think it's the worst matchup in the game).

 

[Vermanubis]

If you don't mind, I'll just add extra signs as the MUs get better or worse

Spoiler

Bowser ~ 0
Bowser Jr ~ ?
Captain Falcon ~ - -
Charizard ~ 0
Diddy Kong ~ -
Donkey Kong ~ 0
Duck Hunt ~ - -
Falco ~ 0
Fox ~ -
Mr. Game & Watch ~ 0
Ganondorf ~ 666
Greninja ~ -
Ike ~ - - (It may seem weird, but with the new buffs, Ike is a nightmare)
Jigglypuff ~ 0
King Dedede ~ -
Kirby ~ +
Link ~ -
Little Mac ~ 0
Lucario ~ -
Luigi ~ 0
Mario ~ 0
Dr. Mario ~ 0
Marth ~ -
Lucina ~ -
Metaknight ~ -
Ness ~ +
Olimar ~ -
Palutena ~ 0
Pikachu ~ - -
Pit & Dark Pit ~ ?
Peach ~ -
Zelda ~ -
R.O.B. ~ -
Robin ~ -
Rosalina ~ - -
Samus ~ +
Sheik ~ - - -
Shulk ~ ?
Toon Link ~ ?
Villager ~ - -
Wario ~ 0
Wii Fit Trainer ~ 0
Yoshi ~ 0
Zero Suit Samus ~ - -
Megaman ~ -
Pacman ~ -
Sonic ~ - -
Ryu ~ ?
Roy ~ ?
Mewtwo ~ ?
Lucas ~ ?
Brawler ~ ?
Swordfighter ~ ?
Gunner ~ ?

 

[Sykkamorre]

Alright:

Bowser +
Bowser Jr. 0
Captain falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck hunt +
Falco -
Fox 0
G&W +
GANONDORF ++++++
Greninja -
Ike -
Jigglypuff ++
D3 -
Kirby +
Link -
Little mac 0
Lucario +
Luigi/Mario/Dr Mario are all 0
Marth 0
Lucina 0
Metaknight -
Ness +
Olimar 0
Palutena +
PIKACHU ---
Pit -
DP +
Peach +
Rob -
Zelda +
Robin +
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Rosalina -
Samus +
TL +
Wario 0
Wii fit +
mii swordfighter +
Mii brawler 0
mii gunner -
Megaman -
Yoshi 0
Pac man -
Villager -
Zero suit samus 0
Sonic -
Ryu -
Lucas -
Roy +
Mewtwo +

 

[jmanup85]

I recommend it go like this.

"++" for heavy advantage
"+" for sllight advantage
"0" for even
"-" for slight disadvantage
"--" for heavy disadvantage

 

[Zareidriel]

You are free too add more +'s and -'s as you like, but at this point I'm just taking +, -, and 0 as final results in order to keep things simple for our first go at this chart. We may do a weighted advantage/disadvantage (probably +3 to -3) in a future chart, maybe for 2016.

 

[_Magus_]

I'll probably vote anyway later on, but I question whether this is actually helpful or reflective of the way the matchups stack up.

 

[Zareidriel]

Not to worry, I and many others are questioning that as well.

 

[Theosmeo]

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt -
Falco -
Fox 0
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf +++++++++++++++++
Greninja -
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac -
Lucario 0
Luigi -
Mario 0
Dr. Mario 0
Marth -
Lucina -
Metaknight 0
Ness +
Olimar +
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach -
Zelda -
R.O.B. -
Robin ---
Rosalina ---
Samus 0
Sheik ---
Shulk 0
Toon Link +
Villager 0
Wario +++
Wii Fit Trainer 0
Yoshi 0
Zero Suit Samus ---
Megaman 0
Pacman ---
Sonic -
Ryu -
Roy -
Mewtwo -
Lucas 0
Brawler 0
Swordfighter 0
Gunner 0

I just realized the Ganon hive mind all collectively put ++++++ for the mirror MU, sorry we´re so in synch that I stole your guys joke before I looked at your posts(I didn´t want any bias)

 

[MGK]

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong -
Duck Hunt -
Falco 0
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf
Greninja -
Ike - -
Jigglypuff 0
King Dedede 0
Kirby 0
Link -
Little Mac -
Lucario +
Luigi 0
Mario -
Dr. Mario 0
Marth 0
Lucina 0
Metaknight 0
Ness 0
Olimar +
Palutena 0
Pikachu - - -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach -
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin - -
Rosalina - -
Samus -
Sheik - - -
Shulk -
Toon Link -
Villager - -
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer -
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus - -
Megaman -
Pacman -
Sonic - -
Ryu -
Roy -
Mewtwo 0
Lucas 0
Brawler 0
Swordfighter 0
Gunner -

 

[Koskinator]

This whole thing seems foolish imo. Whats gonna happen in 1-2 months when the inevitable patch comes with the ballot character and turns all this information on its head? Seems like a lot of wasted man hours for something that is more than likely going to be obsolete within 2 months.

 

[verbatim]

it's not exactly an overburdening amount of work. While I personally don't like - 0 + the truth of the matter is that I really don't think a patch will drastically change Ganondorf's matchup spread unless we get something completely broken like 2 less startup frames on up air (I can dream).

 

[Sykkamorre]

It's still quite interesting to see how negative some people are about our MU's.

I mean, one guy seems to think we only win 3 MU's while I think we win at least 18 different matchups.

 

[Theosmeo]

It's still quite interesting to see how negative some people are about our MU's.

I mean, one guy seems to think we only win 3 MU's while I think we win at least 18 different matchups.

I think it depends on experience. I´ve played very few good Olimars, so I think it´s a good MU because of basic things like low weight and confirmed choke followups, but I could see people arguing that his projectiles, good recovery, and powerful punishing grabs cause trouble for Ganon. A great player can make any MU seem unwinnable(see Ganon mains).

 

[verbatim]

It's a bit more complicated than that, Dash Attack beats all but the purple pikmin toss (that clashes), Ganon has a lot of good moves for knocking pikmin off of him, Olimar can't use a hitbox below the stage while using his up b without sd'ing, and if he doesn't tech the flame choke you can't straight up down smash him instead of down tilt (because of his helmet he has one of if not the highest hurtboxes while laying on the ground).

I sought out a pretty good Olimar main to test this (they super armored through my dair offstage with the down b, boy was that a surprise) and most of my general musings held true.

 

[Theosmeo]

It's a bit more complicated than that, Dash Attack beats all but the purple pikmin toss (that clashes), Ganon has a lot of good moves for knocking pikmin off of him, Olimar can't use a hitbox below the stage while using his up b without sd'ing, and if he doesn't tech the flame choke you can't straight up down smash him instead of down tilt (because of his helmet he has one of if not the highest hurtboxes while laying on the ground).

I sought out a pretty good Olimar main to test this (they super armored through my dair offstage with the down b, boy was that a surprise) and most of my general musings held true.

Oh this is all really interesting info, most of my MU experience comes from online since my practice partner plays everyone wierd and I haven´t had the opportunity to go to many tournaments. Thanks for that

 

[Zareidriel]

Voting closes tomorrow at midnight. Get those ballots in!

 

[Abbey Street]

Spoiler

////////////******
Bowser +
Bowser Jr 0
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong -
Duck Hunt -
Falco -
Fox 0
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf -----------------------------
Greninja -
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario 0
Luigi -
Mario 0
Dr. Mario +
Marth -
Lucina 0
Metaknight ?
Ness 0
Olimar +
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach -
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin +
Rosalina -
Samus +
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link +
Villager -
Wario +
Wii Fit Trainer 0
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman 0
Sonic -
Ryu -
Roy 0
Mewtwo +
Lucas -
Brawler +
Swordfighter 0
Gunner +
******//////////

 

[PRGN]

Spoiler: Spoiler

////////////******
Bowser 0
Bowser Jr 0
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt -
Falco +
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf frodnonaG
Greninja -
Ike -
Jigglypuff 0
King Dedede -
Kirby 0
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario -
Luigi -
Mario 0
Dr. Mario 0
Marth -
Lucina -
Metaknight -
Ness -
Olimar -
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit 0
Peach 0
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin 0
Rosalina 0
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk -
Toon Link 0
Villager 0
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer 0
Yoshi 0
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman 0
Pacman 0
Sonic -
Ryu 0
Roy -
Mewtwo 0
Lucas 0
Brawler 0
Swordfighter 0
Gunner 0
******//////////

Sword users with their counter attacks are my worst nightmares. Just hearing that sound when hitting Marth's counter makes me feel as if i lost the match already.

 

[Xinc]

I'm not too late, I think. It's still 11:11 where I currently am. Let me tell you that as the guy writing a matchup for every single character that no one has an agreeing list. JS.

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr +
Captain Falcon -
Charizard ++
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt -
Falco 0
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf 9001 +
Greninja --
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede -
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario +
Luigi --
Mario +
Dr. Mario +
Marth 0
Lucina +
Metaknight 0
Ness +
Olimar +
Palutena +
Pikachu --
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach 0
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin +
Rosalina --
Samus
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link +
Villager --
Wario +
Wii Fit Trainer ?
Yoshi +
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman +
Sonic -
Ryu +
Roy -
Mewtwo 0
Lucas +
Brawler ?
Swordfighter ?
Gunner -

Thoughts:

If I could add any more - to Rosa, I would. The matchup is agonizing, and I don't think I've ever gotten over the fact Dabuz stomped over me.

Also, why is everyone rating Ryu a bad matchup? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Sykkamorre]

I'm not too late, I think. It's still 11:11 where I currently am. Let me tell you that as the guy writing a matchup for every single character that no one has an agreeing list. JS.

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr +
Captain Falcon -
Charizard ++
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt -
Falco 0
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf 9001 +
Greninja --
Ike -
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede -
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario +
Luigi --
Mario +
Dr. Mario +
Marth 0
Lucina +
Metaknight 0
Ness +
Olimar +
Palutena +
Pikachu --
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach 0
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin +
Rosalina --
Samus
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link +
Villager --
Wario +
Wii Fit Trainer ?
Yoshi +
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman +
Sonic -
Ryu +
Roy -
Mewtwo 0
Lucas +
Brawler ?
Swordfighter ?
Gunner -

Thoughts:

If I could add any more - to Rosa, I would. The matchup is agonizing, and I don't think I've ever gotten over the fact Dabuz stomped over me.

Also, why is everyone rating Ryu a bad matchup? Is there something I'm missing?

The ryu matchup?
A fast character with kill confirms and the power to kill as early as us easily. Plus a projectile and good hitboxes? Not an easy MU.

 

[Incoleo]

Hey Ganon boards!! Here's your voting totals eue
Zareidriel

(P.S. I think your board has my favorite sense of humor)


////////////******

Bowser ===+=+00+=0

Bowser Jr -=-+=--==+

Captain Falcon ---=-------

Charizard ==+=======+

Diddy Kong ---=-------

Donkey Kong ----===--==

Duck Hunt ==+--+-----

Falco ----=--=-+=

Fox ---=-==-=--

Mr. Game & Watch ++++=++++==

Ganondorf ===========

Greninja ----------

Ike ---+-------

Jigglypuff +++-=++=+=+

King Dedede ===+--===--

Kirby +=+-+++=+=+

Link -----------

Little Mac ==+===--+++

Lucario ==+-+=+=-+

Luigi --====-=---

Mario -=--===-==+

Dr. Mario =+-=====+=+

Marth -----=-=--=

Lucina =-=--=-==-+

Metaknight --=---==-=

Ness =---+++==-+

Olimar ===+-=+++-+

Palutena +++=+====+

Pikachu -----------

Pit & Dark Pit --=----=-

Peach -----+---==

Zelda ====-+-====

R.O.B. -===-------

Robin -===-+--+=+

Rosalina ---------=-

Samus ==-++=-+=

Sheik ------------

Shulk =======-=-=

Toon Link ==--++-+=+

Villager ------=--=-

Wario +=+===+=+=+

Wii Fit Trainer -=+=-==

Yoshi =---====--=+

Zero Suit Samus ----------

Megaman ------=--=-

Pacman ---+----==+

Sonic --=--------

Ryu ---+---=+

Roy +=--+--=--

Mewtwo +++=+-=+==

Lucas --=-==-=+

Brawler --===+=

Swordfighter ++=+====

Gunner ----=-+=-

******//////////

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Also, why is everyone rating Ryu a bad matchup? Is there something I'm missing?

Ryu is a really awful matchup, imo.

He's just a better, faster character with disgustingly early kill confirms and a decent multi-hit projectile that forces options besides power-shield. He's a major threat to hit on shield and a major threat while you are shielding. And to top it off, no choke follow-up.