Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[#HBC | Kary]

we keep looking for scum, duh

Vote: Death Bear

 

[BSP]

BSP, you didnt make a stance about me

quick. make one now so scum doesnt try to create a disconnection between the two of us

You could say that about anyone I didn't mention.

But anyway, since you brought it up, I haven't looked into you seriously enough yet to give a good stance.

 

[BSP]

it's a Soup-tell

getting things ***-backwards

see: any game

You blew off Soup missing that really quickly. How are you so confident that he didn't legitimately screw up?

 

[Jdietz43]

Oooh sorry... customs agent just hit a paper jam.

'Fraid we'll have to wait a moment...


(Translation: I can't even fake that I trust Kary right now for reads purposes, sorry guys)



Kary, seriously what are you doing right now. Why are you dragging Rake into this too?

 

[BSP]

No.

BSP doesn't know how to handle a gun as either alignment. A democracy in this scenario is the best route to go with. Quit being silly.

BSP is a prince. Not a king. A prince. Keep that in mind.

I do not appreciate this. Why do you feel the need to take pot shots at me? How does this help anyone?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You blew off Soup missing that really quickly. How are you so confident that he didn't legitimately screw up?

am I confident that Soup is town? no

am I confident that trying to read Soup based on him misreading a post is a bad idea? yes

in my experience Soup can barely be trusted to accurately relay his role name, let alone get the right end of any given stick. As I'm aware of this, I feel it's pro-town to pass this information on to others.

Kary, seriously what are you doing right now. Why are you dragging Rake into this too?

What am I doing, what? Asking you to vote dabuz?

It's an RVS waggon, is this a term you're unfamiliar with?
The votes don't even count! Crying out loud.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You didn't answer my question. You specifically said that you didn't like me not exerting my influence once I said Mastermind would get executed. I wasn't exerting influence anytime before that. Why are you suddenly not ok with it? Why didn't you bring it back then?

I don't care about defense, offense, or whatever, just answer the question.

Because the action you're taking on Mastermind is random. There is no influence involved, it is just you (literally) picking a name out of a hat and executing them with extreme prejudice. No definitive stance, no reasoning, just you and a hat.

Am I supposed to take this as you wanting me dead now? Why?

....No. I was just making an example. I want to comment on your reads for a moment too. I'll get to it in another post.

 

[Jdietz43]

What am I doing, what? Asking you to vote dabuz?

It's an RVS waggon, is this a term you're unfamiliar with?
The votes don't even count! Crying out loud.

Yeah, and the point of an RVS wagon isn't just to pile on mindlessly: it's to get people talking. People are talking now, some of us even about how we don't understand the Dabuz wagon *coughmecough*. If you think I'm just going to hop on because you want to be my friend, and I'm going to watch you vote Deathbear for not voting either you're entirely misinformed about what RVS is all about.

I don't care if the votes count or not, I want to know why you're acting screwy.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That'd depend on how you define "control", but w/e

Soup - you're a null/scum. I don't have enough to give you a scum read, but what I just saw is a big deal in my eyes.

Kary - Null too. That JDscum and buddying stuff is WIFOM and he's doing it for a reason. I've just got to find out why.

Gheb - I'm assuming he's played a good amount of games, yes? He certainly doesn't need to sit back

Handorin - Same as Gheb. All I've really seen from him is what I'd call a summarizing post. Just a few ideas on what's going down, and that's about it. He's V/la though, so I'll give him that.

Bardull - I thought his earlier play felt off in regards to how much he started talking about kings and why he'd be good as King. I'll be looking at his connections more.

Dabuz - I don't know why he said what he did when I asked him how we should run this day. His answer implied that he was fine with me doing whatever; I would've liked it more if he would have at least given some idea of what he thought was good

That didn't really tell me anything. You have Null/Scum for me and a Null on Kary. Both instances not really elaborated on either. The others you don't even provide a stance at all and what rather seems like idle commenting. Is Gheb sitting back townie to you? Scummy? Which way are you leaning with Bardull? You say he's off this game but does that mean he's scum? Same as Gheb? Why? Is he town Scum? Am I getting to you yet? Do I need to make this post more clear for you? Where's the meat, damnit!

Elaboration is needed on all accounts.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

in my experience Soup can barely be trusted to accurately relay his role name, let alone get the right end of any given stick. As I'm aware of this, I feel it's pro-town to pass this information on to others.

I don't believe I've ever messed up on this, the only thing I have is dyslexia regarding my own posts and reading others.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yeah, and the point of an RVS wagon isn't just to pile on mindlessly: it's to get people talking.

nah i'm pretty sure it's both. You pile on and then consider who did so and why.

People are talking now, some of us even about how we don't understand the Dabuz wagon *coughmecough*.

so you're townreading Dabuz?
Or you just don't agree that him trying to appear co-operative and not really contributing is grounds for a vote that doesn't actually count?

If you think I'm just going to hop on because you want to be my friend,

the waggon doesn't lead anywhere, so it's irrelevant whether you hop on. But looking at how and why is more interesting.

and I'm going to watch you vote Deathbear for not voting either

No, i'm voting him because a significant proportion of his questions have been ***, not least the recent:

so what happens if dabuz gets executed and flips town kary ?
what happens if he flips mafia ?

which I don't even understand the point of. How does this further a read on me?

The point of the waggon it to generate reads and to presure dabuz. Everyone going 'OMG BUT WAI' does not succeed in pressuring dabuz.

you're entirely misinformed about what RVS is all about.

I disagree.

I don't care if the votes count or not, I want to know why you're acting screwy.

I'm not, but maybe you're not caught up. I am pushing dabuz not least in order to try and get something useful from him. I'm also pushing a couple other things. Stop throwing around blanket dislike of my play.

 

[BSP]

Because the action you're taking on Mastermind is random. There is no influence involved, it is just you (literally) picking a name out of a hat and executing them with extreme prejudice. No definitive stance, no reasoning, just you and a hat.

I would accept this response if you didn't specifically say "I don't like you coming into this thread and not trying to exert your position."

If you would've only mentioned my method of choosing Mastermind as your reasoning, that'd be fine. However, you threw this in there too. I think that if you really had a problem with it, you would've brought it up well before that, but you only brought it up after I did something stupid.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Maybe I brought it up because you did something stupid? Your reasoning behind the random choice on Mastermind is because you said you can't handle pressure and you're gonna cop out. That's definitely not exerting your position.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I don't believe I've ever messed up on this, the only thing I have is dyslexia regarding my own posts and reading others.

i'm exaggerating, i didn't mean to offend

 

[BSP]

Maybe I brought it up because you did something stupid? Your reasoning behind the random choice on Mastermind is because you said you can't handle pressure and you're gonna cop out. That's definitely not exerting your position.

Exactly, you brought it up when I did something stupid. If you really had a problem with it, you would've brought it up a while ago.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

....What? I had no reason to bring that up because I didn't have a problem up until then.

 

[BSP]

That didn't really tell me anything. You have Null/Scum for me and a Null on Kary. Both instances not really elaborated on either. The others you don't even provide a stance at all and what rather seems like idle commenting. Is Gheb sitting back townie to you? Scummy? Which way are you leaning with Bardull? You say he's off this game but does that mean he's scum? Same as Gheb? Why? Is he town Scum? Am I getting to you yet? Do I need to make this post more clear for you? Where's the meat, damnit!

Elaboration is needed on all accounts.

You're just going to have to take it for now. I'm not going down this road with you. I told you that I don't have anything solid on anyone right now, and the last time I made a case without having the entire scum team laid out, it got ignored.

 

[Omni]

^i can respect that

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You're telling me you don't have a solid read on anyone with 4-5 pages on content already posted? Why is that? I can understand with some slots but I don't think there's an excuse for slots like Bardull.

 

[Omni]

soup, i'm very uncomfortable with you

 

[Omni]

vote: soup

 

[Jerkus]

@BSP: The one thing I will request, and you really should consider cooperating with this if you're town, is that you give us some warning before you do actually decide to execute someone, whoever it is. There are things I'd like to say about certain players before you execute them, but I'd rather not say them now. So if the Day is going to end earlier than the deadline, I'd like to know that ahead of time so that I can get some final thoughts out. I imagine this will be helpful for several people outside of this slot.

Cool? Cool.

/Humble request from a lowly peasant

Circus: seems to me like we're on exactly the same page, i.e. people should be held accountable for their actions which is common sense. The problem with dabutt is him saying "the king should be comfortable doing what they want to" and "the king doing X means I'll kill them" in the same post, it's predictive lynch logic, and it's circular. See also Gheb's callout of dabutt for a different post in the same vein.

The only real issue I see there is Dabuz showing his hand. "Do this and I'll kill you" kind of negates the "do whatever you want" comment, in terms of strategy. I don't see it as an indication of scum alignment though.

Although, even then, what Dabuz specifically said is also just basic common sense and comes up in any sort of mafia game. It's essentially the same as saying "if you quick hammer, we're gonna lynch you, because town wouldn't do that."

You have described how Dabuz is not playing ideally town. You have not described what makes him scummy.

I have described above how one of your opening posts could be construed as fishing for info/fence-sitting/ trying to seem helpful; this combined with your lack of content elsewhere suggests you could be scum.

Interesting word choice. Rather than calling Dabuz out for fishing or fence-sitting or acting, you actually just suggest that what he said "could be construed" as those things. Seems like you're more interested in justifying why you dislike Dabuz, regardless of his alignment, rather than actually revealing scum. This way, even if he flips town, you can still say "well, it did seem like he could have been doing scummy things...."

You know, another word for "construing," in this context, could be "framing."

Of course, I can't be sure, I've never even played with you before.But it seemed reasonable to pressure you and see how you'd react. It's RVS, after all.

Nuh-uh. It most certainly is not RVS anymore. You don't get to use that as a backdoor. You're stuck to this read now.

@DB:

resisting the urge to say 'because he's scum'

"because he's not contributing and we may as well clear/condemn him now"

although why you need persuading to do something like this I don't know.

It's great that you're finally admitting that you're just going for the lazy lynch.

Vote: Kary

@Omni: What was the last mafia game you played?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

soup, i'm very uncomfortable with you

Okay. You already disliked me over some mechanical crap I did. What's bothering you this time?

 

[BSP]

You're telling me you don't have a solid read on anyone with 4-5 pages on content already posted? Why is that? I can understand with some slots but I don't think there's an excuse for slots like Bardull.

Alright, you're questioning me about this

No, he's trying to explain what a gambit is. If he was day vigilante, you'd be dead. Except he's not, and you're not. But it's the sort of thing he might do as a gambit to see how you'd react.

and it's too early to have solid reads IMO so idk why you're throwing them out there.

and i'm town you fool

But you didn't say anything when Kary said this. Why is that? You should be worried about anyone without solid reads right now, right?

And yes, I'm telling you that. My read doesn't mean **** if I can't back it up. Like I said, as soon as I give out a scum read, I'm going to get barraged with "why are they scum", and I'm going to have a case prepped before I do that. Otherwise, it gets us nowhere.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You know, another word for "construing," in this context, could be "framing."

Nuh-uh. It most certainly is not RVS anymore. You don't get to use that as a backdoor. You're stuck to this read now.

It's great that you're finally admitting that you're just going for the lazy lynch

haha

no


i mean for serious, you apparently think i want dabuz lynched at this stage, which shows a remarkable lack of awareness of any sort of meta on my slot.
i'm always going to want to spill out D1 as much as possible and take the best lynch I can get in terms of suiting my reads/connections, which I obviously can't have achieved at this stage.

but there you go

i'll catch you later

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@BSP
Why does what Kary does reside with you? It's not the same problem. Kary has given out some stances at the time and you heve left me with nothing. I'm fine with your explanation however.

 

[Jerkus]

@Kary: You might be able to achieve a proper read faster if you actually pressured/questioned Dabuz/whoever instead of just soliciting votes for wagon that doesn't even matter. What exactly are you trying to get out of this wagon? "Reads" is not an acceptable answer. I want to know what you expect from Dabuz.

 

[Omni]

@Omni: What was the last mafia game you played?

can't remember, tbh. it's been several months if not maybe an entire year.

Okay. You already disliked me over some mechanical crap I did. What's bothering you this time?

i didnt dislike you, buddy. i said it was an itch. just wanted to understand what you were trying to... get... from my line of reasoning with Dabuz. a name slip is a name slip, but after i explained the name slip you still seemed confused. made me wonder if you really cared about my opinion on Bardull/Dabuz at all. nuthin srs. pretty much w/e like u said earlier

right now tho i dont like your line of questioning with BSP. the guy says he doesn't have a solid read 4-5 pages in of a mafia game. i think that's fine. ur kinda blowing it up like its a big deal. more than it needs to be. i see u asking questions but i dont really see scumhunting. i find myself thinking, "yeah, so?" to a lot of the questions you ask.

also you're 50% scum

i dont really care if u have solid reads right now. if u did, i wouldnt entertain them and i'd probably judge your ability of creating a solid stance. and i dont really have any specific questions to ask you right now either. im simply just uncomfortable with you. do you think im being unreasonable?

 

[Omni]

@Kary: You might be able to achieve a proper read faster if you actually pressured/questioned Dabuz/whoever instead of just soliciting votes for wagon that doesn't even matter. What exactly are you trying to get out of this wagon? "Reads" is not an acceptable answer. I want to know what you expect from Dabuz.

i was under the notion that we weren't expecting anything.

jerkus, u seem like you'd make a great late game champion. scatter your brains for me a bit:

- what's your stance on me
- are u cool with killing dabuz at this rate
- thoughts on soup? might need to reread a bit
- do u think im reaching in regards to the QT tidbit. i think u are, but just wanna make sure. regardless, how do u interpret Dbear ignoring it all together

pls dont let this interrupt your interrogation of kary. i like where that is goin too

 

[#HBC | marshy]

holy ****? who made those last posts from jerkus? talk about disgusting

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

right now tho i dont like your line of questioning with BSP. the guy says he doesn't have a solid read 4-5 pages in of a mafia game. i think that's fine. ur kinda blowing it up like its a big deal. more than it needs to be. i see u asking questions but i dont really see scumhunting. i find myself thinking, "yeah, so?" to a lot of the questions you ask.

Not really. I have a problem with it but I'm not going to gather around the whole town and start a mob about it. I think your way of handling things is different from mine however, so this argument seems pointless. I'm not going to entertain the idea of you disliking what I'm doing because I feel later in the game it will make sense. It meshes in with my playstyle.

also you're 50% scum

i dont really care if u have solid reads right now. if u did, i wouldnt entertain them and i'd probably judge your ability of creating a solid stance. and i dont really have any specific questions to ask you right now either. im simply just uncomfortable with you. do you think im being unreasonable?

No. Just curious.

 

[Omni]

i see. hm. im not going to unvote you, but i dont think im going to apply any more pressure to you. igmeoy basically

modkill marshy. gg town wins.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Kary: You might be able to achieve a proper read faster if you actually pressured/questioned Dabuz/whoever instead of just soliciting votes for wagon that doesn't even matter. What exactly are you trying to get out of this wagon? "Reads" is not an acceptable answer. I want to know what you expect from Dabuz.

#1
I am trying to question Dabuz. I asked him to elaborate on his read of the me/BarDulL exchange, and he said 'no first explain your RVS scumread on me'

#2
Fear. Dismissal of my slot. Answers to my questions. Continued lurking. Some sort of substantial response to my actions towards his slot which I can evaluate.

 

[BSP]

@BSP
Why does what Kary does reside with you? It's not the same problem. Kary has given out some stances at the time and you heve left me with nothing. I'm fine with your explanation however.

Look closely. I've put every post Kary has made so far into this collapse:

Spoiler

Throw your weight around. Pressure inactives. Don't just follow the majority. Take advantage of the power you have in order to try and find scum.

By all means, things like votecounts and waggons will still likely be useful. But don't feel bound by them. There's a different set of rules in place, so you work within those to find scum.

Also you should probably clear your decision to execute someone with 2/3 of your townreads before you do it. But that's common sense. With great power, etc...



Or maybe he should be trying to find scum? And he should be working with the town to do that? And not just doing whatever he wants?

I mean, you raise an interesting question of political authority here. But I'm gonna say it's pretty obvious to what extent the king should do something.


Soup/BarDulL looks boring, and I can't believe you guys seriously arguing during the night phase,


Vote: Dabuz

because scum, gonna get my bus on D1

JDietz, buddy with me this game. Let's get Dabuz killed. Maybe we can recruit a big shot power player to our cause, perhaps No Hetero. But that's much of a muchness.

The two of us, let's run this town.

and what happened to the real Richard??????.???

mystery time !!!!! !1!111!

OMGBBQ

Second Vote: BarDulL


Fair point



I don't know to which sentence you're referring. But it's probably not a big deal.



Was it this? No, I'm dead serious in this. Also, I have two votes, so I can vote BarDulL at the same time.

moar votes on BarDulL plz

It looks long/stupid, and looks like it's not going to produce any significant tells one way or the other.



It's RVS, you're meant to open up discussion. And I wanted to talk about how I have two votes, which you appear to have overlooked in your votecount



you're trying too hard

but GG

Vote: BarDulL

'I thought it was a reaction test'



'I still think it needs substantiation'

The smell of you trying to cement yourself as town by pushing various avenues too seriously at this, the start of the game.

Or, you're trying too hard.



I don't know and I don't really care right now, he is not on my RVS list of people to needlessly antagonize.

no

why would you want such a thing?



then why point out that it was unsubstantiated

oh wait

GG



'I think you're pretending to be town'

'wow damn this is waaay confusing right here'

wow, yeah, you think you're town so I should totally give up pushing you

and as ever I don't really care how I look as long as we hit scum (see: any game)


but you're scum, elaborating on the case seems boring and unnecessary

why were you taking me seriously in the first place?

actually, wait, I'm bored of talking to you.



because he's my scumbuddy and I want to openly buddy with him so that people don't think we're scum together.

no, wait. what sort of answer are you expecting?

aaaand i'm done

call me when you need a townie

noted

postulation; meta => null

/end

I'm a doublevoter.



I wanted to see how he responds to that accusation before explaining some of the thought process behind it. I can still go on and do that if I want to, but had I done that already I wouldn't have been able to push a simple reaction.



In my opinion, letting scum know who you're looking at, is not worth the benefit of letting town know who you're looking at. Just assume I'm looking at everyone; if I want you to pay attention to a slot, I'll let you know.

and it was a terrible question



???




Because you're scum?

that's all you got from that interaction?

do you agree that BarDulL was trying too hard to seem town?

think carefully about your answer.



yes



*thumbsup*

be town, Soup




you should vote for dabuz

Because he's there and he's easy to pressure. Also this post:



'I'm scum and I really want to know how toDay's going to be run, so i'll ask under the pretense of being co-operative'



Wait, is this the 'why did you pick dietz?' question again?

because, obviously, you haven't posted and yet you have potential to buddy.

but it could have been a number of people; the point is to elicit a reaction from someone.

your vote is weaksauce, you don't scare me



why are you scum? something to do with your role PM I imagine. unless it's fate.



hmm, well this seems a bit defensive. anyhow.

I have described above how one of your opening posts could be construed as fishing for info/fence-sitting/ trying to seem helpful; this combined with your lack of content elsewhere suggests you could be scum.

Of course, I can't be sure, I've never even played with you before.But it seemed reasonable to pressure you and see how you'd react. It's RVS, after all.



d-o-n-e

although you seem to be making a meal out of a mountain



Gambits 101;
#1 What not to gambit

If you seriously can't handle the pressure, proxy your decision to me.



'lurky and suspicious'
have to read past the surface level, takes a bit of time

it's a Soup-tell

getting things ***-backwards

see: any game

if I was asking you to buddy to get a reaction

then someone comes in and asks me why i'm asking you that

and I say 'to get a reaction'

you don't think that might temper your reaction somewhat?

but now that you have reacted, I can afford to peel back the curtain a little.

do you want to be buddies or not? I have a feeling I may not be able to trust you, but this will no doubt make our association all the more enthralling in the long run.

don't make me create a giant rolleyes.gif now

then you should vote dabuz



rhymes with 'scary' IMO

No, he's trying to explain what a gambit is. If he was day vigilante, you'd be dead. Except he's not, and you're not. But it's the sort of thing he might do as a gambit to see how you'd react.

and it's too early to have solid reads IMO so idk why you're throwing them out there.

and i'm town you fool

@DB:

resisting the urge to say 'because he's scum'

"because he's not contributing and we may as well clear/condemn him now"

although why you need persuading to do something like this I don't know.

well vote dabuz then!

chop chop!

we keep looking for scum, duh

Vote: Death Bear

am I confident that Soup is town? no

am I confident that trying to read Soup based on him misreading a post is a bad idea? yes

in my experience Soup can barely be trusted to accurately relay his role name, let alone get the right end of any given stick. As I'm aware of this, I feel it's pro-town to pass this information on to others.



What am I doing, what? Asking you to vote dabuz?

It's an RVS waggon, is this a term you're unfamiliar with?
The votes don't even count! Crying out loud.

i'm exaggerating, i didn't mean to offend

haha

no


i mean for serious, you apparently think i want dabuz lynched at this stage, which shows a remarkable lack of awareness of any sort of meta on my slot.
i'm always going to want to spill out D1 as much as possible and take the best lynch I can get in terms of suiting my reads/connections, which I obviously can't have achieved at this stage.

but there you go

i'll catch you later

I gathered 1 stance out of that. Bardull is trying to hard. Where did you get some from?

Don't mention votes. Kary has made it clear he thinks this is RVS. Where are his stances at?

 

[No Hetero]

so can we lynch dabuz and call it a day?

marshy half here surprise

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Wow, BSP. You actually went and did that.

 

[Jerkus]

- what's your stance on me

Some things about you rub me the wrong way, such as your unexplained vote on Dabuz despite apparently having a town read on him. More recently, you're less of a focus for me.

- are u cool with killing dabuz at this rate

No. I don't think he's vital to keep around, but plenty of people have given **** reasoning for being suspicious of him so far, and it's easy to get away with that kind of thing with a player like Dabuz.

- thoughts on soup? might need to reread a bit

I haven't been fond of Soup at all so far. He has been chasing lots of wild geese and clinging to topics of discussion that lead nowhere. Right now, I'm uncertain if that's something more sinister than just having his priorities out of whack though.

- do u think im reaching in regards to the QT tidbit. i think u are, but just wanna make sure. regardless, how do u interpret Dbear ignoring it all together

I wouldn't use the word "reaching." But it is common practice for pretty much any form of legal outside communication to occur in QTs now, so I do think you're barking up the wrong tree. Death Bear ignoring it is null.

holy ****? who made those last posts from jerkus? talk about disgusting

Go ahead and elaborate on that for me.

The cynical side of me thinks maybe you "forgot" to post on hydra in order to show that it was Marshy making this statement, thinking your clout would discredit my posts without actually having to explain what you think is wrong with them.

But that's crazy, right?

 

[No Hetero]

it doesnt have to be like this jerkus. we can destroy dabuz together

 

[Jerkus]

Give me a legit reason for scumDabuz. Seriously.

Quote a post even, if you're feeling saucy.

 

[No Hetero]

i dont see why i would. that just gives scum ammo to refute ther death and room for people to whiteknight them and gorf knows theres more than enough of that nonsense present