Marth's FS is weak

[wodan46]

I'm really tired of seeing people go OMG MARTH has BEST FS EVAR.

Lets review:
1. It can be avoided via jumping or rolling. Getting into close combat prevents escape, but risks you getting the smash ball knocked out of you.
2. Even if it does connect, your opponents will have incredible idiocy to let you get 2 of them at once, for the logical thing is for them to scatter to either side, then pelt you with projectiles in hopes of knocking the smash ball out of you.
3. Zelda/Sheiks has the same effect, except with infinite and instantaneous range, and will hit all opponents in a line, not just the first one and anyone standing near him.
4. Ganondorf's has the same effect, except its hit box prevents the opponent from escaping via rolling or a single quick jump, and it is only marginally weaker.
5. Captain Falcon can also connect in an easier manner with less shenanigans, but don't quote me on that, as his move is kinda weird and I'm not absolutely sure of this.
6. Toon Link and Link have slightly less chance of a KO, but connect better, and are at least on par with Marth's.
7. Ike can hit multiple targets pretty well, and his main target usually ends up dead?

So in short, Marth's attack has difficulty getting more than 1 KO at a time, has to risk being lost altogether in order to prevent the opponent from dodging, has no significant AOE., and is equal to 3 other FSs and inferior to 3 more that have the same style.

So why on earth is Marth's FS considered to be so awesome? Because it can KO someone at 0%? Well, some of the other FSs have the potential to KO 2 or 3 people at 0%, while others require higher %s, but can easily blast all 3 opponents to nothing.

Marth's FS is certainly good, but it is not exceptional. It makes tradeoffs just like all the others do.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

It's VERY VERY STRONG. Change the title.

It is overated though.

 

[M.K]

You forgot to mention Ike can STAND STILL and Super Armor will kick into effect, causing no damage at all.

 

[Tristan_win]

Truthfully I really don't care about FS since they are already banned in tournaments, like they should be.

 

[DraginHikari]

Truthfully I really don't care about FS since they are already banned in tournaments, like they should be.

Hm, fair enough, but if you don't care why are you posting in a topic releventant to the use of them?

 

[Nitoheilapine]

Weak does not equal overrated.

Glorified does not necessarily equal strong.

Marth's FS is the only FS guaranteed that it will and can kill (unless objects are in the way.) This is if it connects. The rest are not in some way, shape, or form.

Let's take that Zelda Bridge stage for all the FS about to be explained.

Link and Toon Link's FS can be recovered from if I'm not not mistaken. (or it'll just send you into more of the bridge.)

The Shiek Version of the Light Boy slams you downward. If there is more ground behind you, you won't die. (I haven't experienced this so forgive me if I'm wrong.)

Ganon I haven't experienced.

 

[VaneWalker]

This topic belongs in the Marth thread.

 

[Ichida]

The point is, IF it hits, it's epic. It's predictable and easily avoided, but a skilled player could snipe anybody with it.

 

[orintemple]

Marth's is the only FS in the game that is ALWAYS an instant kill(if it hits) unless there is soemthing in the way. Yes its overrated but some of your facts are just wrong.

 

[rove]

Eh, i'm still trying to figure out what that orange box with the white lines in it are for.

 

[Ichida]

Eh, i'm still trying to figure out what that orange box with the white lines in it are for.

Fire Emblem reference. Play one.

 

[MasterCheeze]

You forgot to mention Ike can STAND STILL and Super Armor will kick into effect, causing no damage at all.

Actually, it still does the 60% of damage. I saw a video of it, but still, he doesn't get KO'd which is crap…

The only way I'll say Marth's FS is useless is if it can miss someone in the air if they do an air dodge.

 

[Tristan Darkshade]

Eh, i'm still trying to figure out what that orange box with the white lines in it are for.

HP representation. It doesn't mean anything statistic-wise. But that's how HP decreased in Fire Emblem (and seeing as a critical hit is three times damage in those games, it tended to do that if you had enough strength)

You forgot to mention Ike can STAND STILL and Super Armor will kick into effect, causing no damage at all.

No, he has to use a move that has those flinchless super armor frames. Like the startup of aether.

The only way I'll say Marth's FS is useless is if it can miss someone in the air if they do an air dodge.

I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[FrostByte]

Landing fair to FS anyone? Catching people out of double jumps with Final smash? Cause it always works.

 

[reothepenguin]

Actually, it still does the 60% of damage. I saw a video of it, but still, he doesn't get KO'd which is crap…

The only way I'll say Marth's FS is useless is if it can miss someone in the air if they do an air dodge.

I'm glad you said something. Being an Ike main, I woulda felt weird posting in the marth threads.........................Oh crap, I did anyway. But yeah, 60 percent and Ike goes nowhere. Very over rated but a cool fs anyway.

 

[Count Alphez]

To be honest, this claim that Marths FS is "weak" is totally ridiculous.

true, it has been proven to be avoidable, and of limited success in a real battle, but the creator of this topic stated that it was "weak" meaning, to lack strength. that is total crap, Marth exhibits the strongest final smash if it connects.

re phrase your bloody statement. what a sack of ill educated uninformed idiocy

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

Landmaster ftw.

Seriously this time, Landmasters can KO people even still invincible after having respawned by just carrying them over the top of the screen. Super armor or not.

 

[Tofu Beast]

can you knock smash balls out with projectiles??

 

[marthmuncher 21]

I hope you can......
and marth's final smash is alot better than some others cough diddy kong.

 

[wodan46]

Marth's FS is still weak. You keep saying that it KOs automatically.

That's ONLY if it CONNECTS. If the other FSs connect, they will usually kill as well.

You keep saying that you can combo into it. Comboing into it requires you to get close to the opponent and risk having your Smash Ball knocked out either by counterattacks in close combat, or by the enemy throwing projectiles at you to keep you away.

If you don't combo into it, your opponent will either jump out of the way, roll out of the way, or dodge out of the way, and then Marth will suicide himself.

It is not a top tier FS. It is at best a mid tier FS.

 

[Ichida]

Marth's FS is still weak. You keep saying that it KOs automatically.

That's ONLY if it CONNECTS. If the other FSs connect, they will usually kill as well.

Requiring accuracy doesn't make it weak. It makes it require accuracy. I don't know what's so weak about an instant KO.

And not all FSs kill. Cook Kirby does about 30% damage, and if they haven't taken too much already, it won't launch them that far.

Peach Blossom. 'nuff said.

I could go on, but you get the point.

 

[redshift71388]

Seriously??

Marth's Final Smash is probably the best in the game. Not one of the best, but the best.

 

[Mky762]

its not weak at all, just time it perfectly (which isnt that hard ) and its an easy KO, and from what ive seen/experienced, its one of the best

 

[wodan46]

Are people actually going to dispute my arguments? Or are they going to keep reciting Marth is good, Marth KOs in 1 hit, Marth can combo into that hit?

That doesn't change the fact that doing so requires plenty of accuracy and skill to avoid having the smash ball knocked out and not suiciding, and that many FSs require less skill and accuracy to KO more reliably, and against more targets.

For example, Super Sonic. That FS won't kill in one hit, but unless you lack competence entirely, you will get 1 KO. In fact, a decent player should get 2 KOs. Note that unlike Marth's, you can activate it immediately rather than getting into position, thus removing the risk of losing the smash ball, and also that even if you miss with some of your attacks, you get enough attacks to leave plenty of room for error. In comparison, one wrong move and Marth loses the smash ball, or his opponent dodges the FS and Marth careens off the edge or into a wall, the smash ball wasted and doing 0 damage.

Marth kills in 1 hit, but its all or nothing, and frankly, nothing is a pretty possible outcome.

Oh, and, once again, let me remind you that Link, Young Link, Ike, Ganondorf, and Zelda/Sheik all have FSs that are as good or better than Marth's. Sure they don't auto KO, but they will if the opponent has even a little damage on them, and they are generally better at hitting multiple targets or connecting or can be deployed from a safer distance.

 

[Ichida]

What's funny is the fact that nobody is disagreeing. YOU just keep stressing the pie-in-the-face obvious fact that it requires accuracy, as if it diminishes how amazingly powerful Critical Hit is. We're not talking about that. We are simply stating that Marth's Final Smash is amazing in terms of POWER.

 

[wodan46]

I didn't realize that Power was the only factor worth considering regarding whether or not a move was weak. I never realized that Ganondorf's warlock punch was his best move.

Referring to a FS as weak means that it is not effective at KOing. An FS that can be avoided with ease, can suicide the user, and has an extremely low chance of scoring a multiple KO, is not a very effective one.

Now if you are done arguing semantics, could you actually offer a compelling explanation for how Marth's FS is even in the top half of the FSs?

For an FS to be effective, it actually has to hit, and not miss and cause a suicide or be lost when the opponent smacks you.

If accuracy wasn't an issue, Marth would indeed get 1 KO consistently, while DK would get 3.

So are you arguing that Marth's FS is weaker than DK? Because if you remove accuracy from the equation, then DK's is vastly better. As is all the other characters that can blast multiple people.

 

[Ichida]

I didn't realize that Power was the only factor worth considering regarding whether or not a move was weak. I never realized that Ganondorf's warlock punch was his best move.

Referring to a FS as weak means that it is not effective at KOing. An FS that can be avoided with ease, can suicide the user, and has an extremely low chance of scoring a multiple KO, is not a very effective one.

Now if you are done arguing semantics, could you actually offer a compelling explanation for how Marth's FS is even in the top half of the FSs?

Weakness is the lack of strength, which this move does not. If a move is "ineffective at KOing," that's only because the player using it is ineffective, not the move. When it comes to Critical Hit, nothing is MORE effective at KOing.

To simplify this, consider all FSs as if they were to be executed by players of utmost skill. Critical Hit is unrivaled.

 

[frankisvital]

I've played both Marth and Gannondorf extensively, and I've hit FAR more with Gannondorf's FS than with Marth's. It stuns, has almost identical killing power (I've never seen it fail to KO, and I have seen Marth's fail to, albeit on Shadow Moses), hits all the way through with a wider hitbox and goes through the stage.

Marth has a **** good Final Smash, but it's certainly not the best.

 

[Kel]

Marth is so much worse than people think.

All of the things that made Marth good in Melee are gone. From what I've seen, the majority of characters have moves that out-range Marth and/or have less lag. Lucario's Fsmash goes farther than Marth's for example. Pretty much everything ROB can do outranges Marth.

Marth is definitely a useable character, but he lacks certain reliability.

 

[MyRevenge.]

The fact that Marth's FS doesn't always hit doesn't make it weak...
It's your fault if you miss, not the moves...
And besides, as far as i've seen, the FS aura (or w/e u call it) last forever unless they knock it out of you...
You don't have to use it right away... just be patient... use it when they least expect it ;P

I think that Marth having the Smash Ball allows him to control the game SO much easier...
Same for other characters though...