Sephiroth M
Smash Apprentice
Is this a good match-up for marth or bad?
*barrel rolls*
*barrel rolls*
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Marth Vs. Space animals
- Thread starter Sephiroth M
- Start date
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Fox and Falco for the most part are even with Marth.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
I agree with both above posts.
Imperial Wraith
Smash Journeyman
Its pretty stage depedant as well. (Back from hols... w00t).
marth can gay both of them extremely well. most likely, during most of the match, the Fox or Falco will dominate. Then at some point you get a grab in, or get them off the edge. And if you don't mess up, that's one stock down for them, nothing they can do about it. Just play gay.
You would rather lose? I like the 0-20% kills... And why wouldn't the Falco play to his fullest right from the start?
Retroking2000
Smash Master
grab is key. You can up throw to up throw chain, or up tilts, and then when they DI away from you eventually right into forward smash tipper range, do it. If you manage to get them in that position at even just 50%, where the forward smash won't kill them, you might want to do it anyways, since they're not exactly the hardest characters to keep off the edge.
Of course, aerials are important as well. Tipped (and non tipped) forward aerials can lead to up tilts or forward smashes as well at times. Down tilt if they're near the edge to knock them off for an easy edge guard. They can't match its range with anything in their arsenal. A tipped down tilt will usually force them to do a fire bird or fox if they're near the edge.
If you are expecting their forward B recovery, up tilt can usually knock them out of it, since I find forward smash can be tough to time. Ducking under it and then forward smashing works well too if you think your crouch will be low enough.
BUT. Better to edgehog. If you're positive they're going to Phantasm, there's no point in hitting them with an attack when you can instant KO them with an edgehog. If you hit him while he's recovering, that's just another chance for him to get back on. Better to just get the KO. And you don't have to worry about the crazy timing. Yeah, just edgehog.
Of course, aerials are important as well. Tipped (and non tipped) forward aerials can lead to up tilts or forward smashes as well at times. Down tilt if they're near the edge to knock them off for an easy edge guard. They can't match its range with anything in their arsenal. A tipped down tilt will usually force them to do a fire bird or fox if they're near the edge.
If you are expecting their forward B recovery, up tilt can usually knock them out of it, since I find forward smash can be tough to time. Ducking under it and then forward smashing works well too if you think your crouch will be low enough.
BUT. Better to edgehog. If you're positive they're going to Phantasm, there's no point in hitting them with an attack when you can instant KO them with an edgehog. If you hit him while he's recovering, that's just another chance for him to get back on. Better to just get the KO. And you don't have to worry about the crazy timing. Yeah, just edgehog.
Sephiroth M
Smash Apprentice
Marf can dominate by chain-grabbing into a tipper is your point?
Eggm
Smash Hero
Just try and play m2k with fox/falco.. Lol.
Flarefox
Smash Ace
Marth vs. Fox is a battle between Marth's upthrow chaingrabs, upthrow utilt/uair combos. Marth can upthrow chain fox into the 60-70%'s, where he finishes the uthrow combo off with a killer tipper on the fsmash.
vs.
Fox's uair juggles from uthrow at low %. Fox can easily juggle marth to a good 60% or so from a simple upthrow (his weight and falling speed work out rather nicely for fox). Fox can always go for low % shine kills(as is normally good to do), but Marth's strong edgeguarding game and foxe's mediocre recovery would discourage that.
==============================
Marth vs. Falco is pretty much the same game for Marth. The only thing that makes it more difficult is that falco has SHL, which gives him a good positional advantage a lot of the time. He must also watch out for Falco's pillar. Marth doesn't have any strong, quick, jab move to counter a lot of this, so he has to watch his spacing carefully here.
On the bright side, Falco's recovery is arguably a lot worse than fox's (less range). The very nice thing is that falco's upb firebird move doesn't burn on chargeup. This means that Marth can simply throw falco offstage, bat his phantasm away with a single swipe, then follow him under the map and easily kill his up-b.
vs.
Fox's uair juggles from uthrow at low %. Fox can easily juggle marth to a good 60% or so from a simple upthrow (his weight and falling speed work out rather nicely for fox). Fox can always go for low % shine kills(as is normally good to do), but Marth's strong edgeguarding game and foxe's mediocre recovery would discourage that.
==============================
Marth vs. Falco is pretty much the same game for Marth. The only thing that makes it more difficult is that falco has SHL, which gives him a good positional advantage a lot of the time. He must also watch out for Falco's pillar. Marth doesn't have any strong, quick, jab move to counter a lot of this, so he has to watch his spacing carefully here.
On the bright side, Falco's recovery is arguably a lot worse than fox's (less range). The very nice thing is that falco's upb firebird move doesn't burn on chargeup. This means that Marth can simply throw falco offstage, bat his phantasm away with a single swipe, then follow him under the map and easily kill his up-b.
Flarefox
Smash Ace
Sorry for double posting, but the University internet connection is really bad and I can't edit for some reason. I wanted to add that Marth can do some small fair combos on spaceanimals if he sweetspots the fairs. This leads to simple finishes like sweetspt fair to tippered fsmash. Note that he cannot usually fair combo them without sweetspotting it because spaceanimals are very fast fallers (especially fox-he accelerates to his max falling speed ridiculously fast).
Betrayed
Smash Ace
Mindgames > Spacies
Betrayed
Smash Ace
Ken > all (even techgod M2K lawls)
Betrayed
Smash Ace
Your right, there hasn't been anything worth watching since the Ken v Azen days
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
it depends on skill level. I think the Marth Fox match up is probably completely even.
Falco probably has a bit of an edge on Marth depending on the stage.
but marth can pretty much 0-death both of them depending on the stage, so i dont mind the match up
Falco probably has a bit of an edge on Marth depending on the stage.
but marth can pretty much 0-death both of them depending on the stage, so i dont mind the match up
Betrayed
Smash Ace
;(
For lack of a better choice, I tend to play Marth or Doc against the spacies, but mainly because I have trouble using anybody else against them. This is serious thread. Totally. Serious.
For lack of a better choice, I tend to play Marth or Doc against the spacies, but mainly because I have trouble using anybody else against them. This is serious thread. Totally. Serious.
Keitaro
Banned via Administration
M2K vs PC!? Robot vs Mindgame Superpro!? You need to step up dude.
Betrayed
Smash Ace
I got to the point where I was like "Why am I watching other people play when I could be playing myself..."
Vids are nice once in a while to see people doing new tricks though, anything truly amazing usually makes it into a montage or something.
PC would win anyways >.>
I feel like a person would have to intentionally make stupid posts to sound any dumber than what I have seen in your posts thus far. No offense, you just seem to have no basis for the statements you are making.
*/flame flame*
Seriously though, Brookman is right. M2K and PC have been going back and forth for a while now. It's not a matter of "this person would beat this person". It's happened. There is proof.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Agreed. Other posters in this thread=phail/10
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Now now, lets not put our two cents in when the cactus is flaming, he gets to flame all by himself since he rarely posts.
He gets "Reserve" flames
He gets "Reserve" flames
Dreadlord Santa
Smash Journeyman
I dunno. I never really like playing against the spacies, though sometimes playing Fox players on FD makes me giddy with power. I wonder why... anyway, on FD, Marth pretty much beats fox, but I think it's a lot more even on more or less every other stage. Especially Dreamland, I never want to play a Fox on that stage EVER AGAIN. Too much shine-spiking, and not enough gay 60% tipper Fsmash KOs.
It's just unrealistic to expect someone to be able to 0-death a spacy with a single grab on a stage with platforms - again, ESPECIALLY Dreamland. It's just too hard to keep tech-chasing and timing utilts and stuff on those platforms... I've seen M2K get off 3 utilts, I think in a *Pound* 2 video against PC Chris, but he flubbed the tech every time, and as such it was hardly difficult to land the tilts.
Also, I'm still relatively bad against Falcos, but it's definitely easy enough to get stupid early KOs against his gimp recovery. I haven't really played any Falco players that are really good at comboing, though, so I'm far from an authority on how easily he can get kills. These matchups seem to depend a lot on the stage, which I suppose is this game's equivalent of being equal, and it seems like taking away the FD counterpick against Falco (because of lasers) just hurts Marth a lot in the matchup. So, I'd say Marth generally goes even with Fox, and has a slight disadvantage against Falco
It's just unrealistic to expect someone to be able to 0-death a spacy with a single grab on a stage with platforms - again, ESPECIALLY Dreamland. It's just too hard to keep tech-chasing and timing utilts and stuff on those platforms... I've seen M2K get off 3 utilts, I think in a *Pound* 2 video against PC Chris, but he flubbed the tech every time, and as such it was hardly difficult to land the tilts.
Also, I'm still relatively bad against Falcos, but it's definitely easy enough to get stupid early KOs against his gimp recovery. I haven't really played any Falco players that are really good at comboing, though, so I'm far from an authority on how easily he can get kills. These matchups seem to depend a lot on the stage, which I suppose is this game's equivalent of being equal, and it seems like taking away the FD counterpick against Falco (because of lasers) just hurts Marth a lot in the matchup. So, I'd say Marth generally goes even with Fox, and has a slight disadvantage against Falco
pewpewyou
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2007
- Messages
- 206
Between you and Fox it's a total grabbing game (depending on the skill of the players). Marth = Chain grabbing -> Tipper if they don't DI, and Fox = up throw -> up air. Whoever gets the first grab has a better chance on that stock. As for Falco... Those SHL's can get really annoying so i mastered power shielding (though that doesnt always help) Let's just hope he doesnt pick FD as a counter pick -.-'
Sephiroth M
Smash Apprentice
It is highly improbable that you have mastered powershielding...
Highly improbable indeed
Highly improbable indeed
AzureKiteSky
Smash Cadet
Mastering powersheilding with someone like Marth can be very difficult, but not impossible, if powersheilding works for him, then thats really all he needs in the way of power sheilding in general.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
I love it when unexperienced beginners talk big.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
PSing falco lasers isn't as difficult as some people let on. I just have trouble on some days because of inconsistency, but when you get the timing down you can't really lose it completely. The laser hitbox starts near the middle and not the end and that's all you really need to know. I find Marth one of the easier people to powershield with but sometimes you don't really need it but some people like crack when you start PSing a few of their lasers consecutively.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Hmm, powershielding occasionally=reasonable with practice
But he used the term "Mastered" lets see...when someone says that, I take it like thay don't mess up with that aspect..
But he used the term "Mastered" lets see...when someone says that, I take it like thay don't mess up with that aspect..
AzureKiteSky
Smash Cadet
By "Unexperienced beginner" you mean new to the forums, correct? I've been playing ssb since before melee was released, and have played as Marth since unlocking him (same day). I just want to make everyone clear on that. (New to the Forums, not to the game.)
UMBC Super Smasher
Smash Lord
Aye, as have the people who play Smash on my hall at college. I beat them in more 2v1s yesterday. What do they have to show for it? Clearly length of time playing is irrelevant; number of tournaments attended may be a better figure for establishing a player's worth.
AzureKiteSky
Smash Cadet
Please dont get me wrong, im not trying to prove my skill as a player, im just trying to avoid being called "unexperienced" when that is not true. experience directly relates to how long or often you play, while skill is what tells how good you are. Nonetheless, i'd rather not start an argument, as forum arguments never turn out well for anyone, so that is where i stand.
ResidentWaffle
Smash Lord
Love playing against space animals, especially the grabs.
AzureKiteSky
Smash Cadet
Grabbing the space animals? or grabbing as the space animals? both are fun.
experience doesn't at all directly relate to how long or often you play it relates to who and how you play. you could have been playing for all these years and not learned an andvanced tactic at all which pretty much gives someone no credibility when they talk about pretty much any aspect of the game since your reasoning and scenario analysis is severely limited to the basic game mechanics. I didn't learn advanced tactics until maybe 3 or so years ago yet technically I had been playing the game since launch as well, quite frequently also. At the time I thought roll dodging was the key to mastering the game, I would hardly have called myself experienced even though technically I had been playing as long as Ken, Azen, or Chillin or whoever was doing well in tournaments at that time.