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Marth vs Shiek Matchup

RedLithium

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
10
Location
mexico
3DS FC
4441-9091-9424
i need help against the shiek matchup as a marth main i just can´t beat my friend´s shiek he always do this crazy comebacks when i am about to 3-stock him so i want to know what strategies i can use against shiek and what the best stage for marth against shiek as a newcomer in melee i really want to learn and improve my marth

plz help
 

TY SoapBoxFan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
6
Can you give more specific info about what they are doing to beat you? Melee is a game where players have a lot options, it's very open so it is very difficult to help without more info.
 

RedLithium

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
10
Location
mexico
3DS FC
4441-9091-9424
well he spot dodge and grab me a lot, he dash atack and F-air me too oh and he abuse neddles obviosly
 
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Son of Slobodan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
67
you need to bait the spot-dodges with your dash dancing and THEN grab. You should mostly be grabbing/d-tiliting out of neutral and and especially grabbing after confirmation situations (especially whiffed grabs/dash attacks). As a general rule of thumb don't go for raw ANYTHING in this matchup because sheik is looking to just punish the lag on your moves and you're trying to do the same. Stay grounded because it's easy for sheik to get under you, so don't fair on their shield and just utilize your superior movement on the ground to trick the shiek and punish hard off of grabs (keep them above you or throw them off the stage). As for needles, your wavedash out of shield game needs to be really solid because if it is you can easily block the needles and wavedash out with a downtilit. After hitting the downtilit, you can either grab out of it if they're close enough, or run away to create space and frustrate them. It's challenging to pull off, but shiek actually CANT out camp marth if your movement and wavedash out of shield are solid.

So yes my number 1 advice that made me understand this matchup after struggling for so long is try to make her do something first instead of you. Most shieks single handedly destroy marths off of frustrating them into approaching. Both characters are fairly limited in their approach so either one can punish the other hard for making a wrong move. Don't get frustrated, play patient and don't spam but punish hard when you get the opportunity. If you can snipe her jump and keep her above you its actually pretty sad how screwed she is.

Keep in mind waiting for them to do something first does not have to be playing gay/campy, you can be aggressive about how you do it and thats what makes the matchup interesting. By moving close but not actually doing a move, you're creating tension and alot of the times you can bait out a dash attack which you can dash-away grab or shield-grab. This is a matchup where either character can zero-death the other in a single punish (albeit its slightly easier for shiek), so just remind yourself that there's no rush and that one extra second of not approaching may just give you the edge. Watch PP play against mew2king's sheik with marth and you'll see, he plays this style better than anybody else and makes it look simple. I hope I helped I used to get destroyed by spot-dodging, grabbing sheiks.
 

RedLithium

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
10
Location
mexico
3DS FC
4441-9091-9424
well i really need to learn some new tricks but thanks! i will work onit,in any stage that i can counterpick against shiek in general? i also play C.F and puff
 

Son of Slobodan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
67
Yoshi's is good but if you're playing in tournament its pretty much a guaranteed ban by the Shiek. FD is the next best if you understand the neutral game. Shiek can't really deal with downtilit on that stage and you have a lot of space to bait and move around. Additionally your punishes are stronger because once you up-throw her she has no platforms to help her get down so you can just go to town with up-tilts/combo with aerials when you get her second jump because she has no good downward hitboxes. Stadium is ok because its not a good sheik stage anyway and battle field is neutral. I personally like Fountain even though its considered a good sheik stage but really i think its just a hyper violent, volatile stage for both characters in the matchup. Sheik literally can't get down from the platforms if you play it right and stab at her with u-tilits. Plus you can tech the platforms off of d-throw to atleast potentially get out of guaranteed d-throw followups (although she has an easy time tech chasing on those platforms).

Captain falcon has a pretty rough time against shiek so I wouldn't recommend that. Puff beats shiek hard but in a very exploitative, unfun way IMO.
 

TY SoapBoxFan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
6
@ Son of Slobodan Son of Slobodan has given a lot of great info. While I am still new here, from my experience the most important thing is your mobility. Use it to force her to attack you, and then wave dash back and punish. The shiek I play often (who is also very new to the game) loves to out space me and then grab or even dash attack to punish me, and wave dash back seems to be a great solution to stop these approaches. Only when you get shiek to freeze up and respect your mobility can you come in with d-tilt. Hope this helps!
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
I don't have much to add to what Son of Slobodan has provided on the match-up. But as far as playing solidly (to avoid Sheik comebacks and such) jumping is generally not a good option. It's too easy for Sheik to sneak grabs and dash attacks in your aerial landing lag or get under you with f-tilt or her own spaced aerials. Down-tilt, grab, and dash dancing are your most solid choices in neutral. Everything needs to be reactive though. Avoid pre-planning your attacks and watch your opponent's movements. He will do something punishable (rolling, spotdodging, jumping, etc.) eventually, and that is when you must be ready to punish hard.

Hope this tidbit was helpful.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
Meh, for some reason I suck vs sheik on FD. I have no clue why. Stadium is money, honestly, tho I like all other stages vs her.
 

The Depths

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
21
Location
Manhattan, NYC
FD is a double-edged sword in this MU. Marth gains a lot from it, but sheik's needle game and punishes are also especially strong. I actually think m2k uses it as a go-to CP (because dreamland is always banned of course). That being said, its still a good stage for marth and I do pick it against some sheiks, I just wouldn't consider it a go-to like I would yoshi's for Marth in this MU.
 
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