Marth vs Donkey Kong is even!

[NJzFinest]

Really old comments on DC++

<NEO> marth vs dk is even, stfu
<Mew2King> wtf? marth destroys donkey kong

<NJ'zFinest> marth vs donkey is even, loloolol
<Mew2King> actually NJ, after playing captain jack
<Mew2King> im starting to believe the matchup isn't to bad

Comment made while I was smashing with CunningKitsune not to long ago:
"When you come to think of it, DK isn't that bad vs Marth. He has up throw and Uair like Fox"


I'm not really trying to saying it is EVEN, just that DK isn't THAT BAD against Marth when you come to think of it. I actually don't mind the matchup that much, it's alot better than say...Falco. Kitsune had a point with DK's up throw and Uair, I mean, I beasted this one stock against his Marth with massive Uairs and Bairs lmao, kinda pissed him off. At a local tourney yesterday, I was killing Marths with up throw to Uair somewhere at the low 100%s. I still don't have enough experience in the matchup though, the Marths I was playing were less experienced as players compared me. I need to play Kitsune some more in that matchup

But yeah, what do you guys think? Sorry if there was already a thread like this.

 

[Number 1 DK]

U-throw to U-air is all DK has in this matchup. With proper DI, this combo stops working against Marth at higher percents anyway. Not to mention, I'd like to see you get consistent grabs on a skilled Marth player. IMO, if Marth spaces himself properly, then DK is gonna have a really rough time in this matchup.

 

[Meta_Knight_14]

I've tried telling people that DK is not as low on the tier rankings as everyone seems to want to put him, but no one listens to me. Oh well, if they wanna keep losing and getting pissed off that they lost to DK so be it, but I agree with you, DK can actually give a lot of characters trouble.

 

[AOB]

DK has always been my character of choice against Marth. My signature back-air spamming (it's all I know how to do!) works great, and so does edgeguarding with ledge-drop spin.

Out of the up throw, you can also do a headbanger or a punch. The headbanger out of a throw gets me lots of kills against Ganon and Marth.

 

[NJzFinest]

With proper DI, this combo stops working against Marth at higher percents anyway.

Nah, I think you can always get an Uair off. Also, at those higher percents, he dies by it.

Not to mention, I'd like to see you get consistent grabs on a skilled Marth player. .

One can say the same about Fox. I know using Bum as an example is pretty dumb since he's AMAZING..but him vs Mew2King's Fox...ehhhh.

IMO, if Marth spaces himself properly, then DK is gonna have a really rough time in this matchup.

Well, you apply that to other characters. Like, Cfalcon, what does he have to outspace Marth? Cfalcon vs Marth is pretty even (dash dance camping, Nair setups, down throw, etc). Same can go for Fox.
I think dash dance camping combined with well placed Bairs, spaced Dtilts, wavedashes out of of shield, and some dash dance camping can help DK some with the spacing (not saying it completely eliminates anything).

 

[Number 1 DK]

All Im saying is that DK has the disadvantage in this fight, it is not even. Yes, I do agree that DK has a better time of it than other lower tier characters, but just because he has one good combo against Marth does not make the matchup even.

Also, DK always lose priority with his Bair vs. Marths fair or f-tilt.

And one cannot say the same thing about fox, sice fox is easier to grab for DK than marth is...

DD camping will get you hit by a Fsmash or a fair, DK doesnt move that fast out of a DD.

 

[AOB]

Also, DK always lose priority with his Bair vs. Marths fair or f-tilt.

Uhm, those moves will beat out almost anything in the game if they both come out at the same time, but there is a lot more at work here than just priority.

I don't dash dance with DK really, but back air spamming and grabs get the job done for me. I have always done well against Marths with DK.

 

[cablepuff]

marth is harder for dk imho than sheik and peach. (so if dk does have fighting chance against marth).. he has more against the other two.

 

[NJzFinest]

All Im saying is that DK has the disadvantage in this fight, it is not even. Yes, I do agree that DK has a better time of it than other lower tier characters, but just because he has one good combo against Marth does not make the matchup even.

I didn't say it was even....lol
But one good combo does mean alot. I mean, Fox can win matchs with just up throw up air (combined with dash dancing and spam).

And one cannot say the same thing about fox, sice fox is easier to grab for DK than marth is...

UM, NO??? If Fox hits your shield, he can still escape from getting grabbed...

DD camping will get you hit by a Fsmash or a fair, DK doesnt move that fast out of a DD.

That's why you space it out and Bair.

marth is harder for dk imho than sheik and peach. (so if dk does have fighting chance against marth).. he has more against the other two.

No, um...Shiek can just grab DK to get massive damage, definately harder than Marth.
Peach actually gets gayed out with back airs and cargo ups (Cort says DK vs Peach is even after playing with Bum).
Cablepuff, do you even use Donkey Kong?

 

[cablepuff]

nah i don't just that i find it easier to win with marth by spamming forward smash.. with sheik i tried going and than getting shield grab and own.

 

[NJzFinest]

Umm....yeah, that shouldn't happen...

 

[Number 1 DK]

Sry NJ but you are trying too hard to defend your argument

Everything you are saying is just wrong

And no **** that even if you shield Fox he can still get away from grabs. He is still easier to grab than Marth, because a properly spaced Marth will never be in grab range of you, even if you shield.

Also, a spaced Bair will not do you any good against Marth, because if you space it perfectly, most of his moves still have more reach and priority.

Overall, the only reason that DK can stand up to Marth is u-throw to u-air, and the fact that most people have never played against a skilled DK player, so he takes them by surprise.

 

[NJzFinest]

Sry NJ but you are trying too hard to defend your argument

You're right. My one liners require alot of thought lolz

Everything you are saying is just wrong

Good one

And no **** that even if you shield Fox he can still get away from grabs. He is still easier to grab than Marth, because a properly spaced Marth will never be in grab range of you, even if you shield.

Ok, well, a Fox who always cancels into and then out of shine will never be grabbed either. Except that is far easier and more consistent to accomplish than ALWAYS PERFECTLY spacing with Marth.
Dude, characters such as Fox and CFalcon do as good as they do against Marth because of grabbing...

Also, a spaced Bair will not do you any good against Marth, because if you space it perfectly, most of his moves still have more reach and priority.

Marth has reach and priority over every character in the game dude. You might as well say moves such as Fox's and Shiek's Bairs are useless against Marth, but that's very false. Well, then again, you can say basically any move in the game (other that spamming ones) are useless against Marth.
Perfectly spacing is harder than it seems lol, there's a reason why Marth doesn't always win.

DK can stand up to Marth

My point exactly.

 

[Number 1 DK]

Oh youre gonna take stuff out of context now huh? lol u are sad

 

[NJzFinest]

Ok, that was a great response. LOL

Oh youre gonna take stuff out of context now huh? lol u are sad

Take stuff out of context? You mean directly replying to each statement made in your post using relevant examples?
Nice one bro!
Who the hell are you anyways?....
Hey, maybe you just suck against Marth (in general). You make it seem like it isn't possible to touch Marth at all...when it is very possible to do so. You should prolly spend some more time getting better at this game rather than thinking you're actually good at it.
I mean, it must be embarrassing to get rolled by your little sister's Fsmash spamming Marth when you think you're the number one DK player lololol


So...my "argument" was DK not being completely assraped by Marth...and you said:

DK can stand up to Marth

...
Nuff said.

Look, you first said 1 combo doesn't mean anything...then you say that one combo is one of the reasons why he can stand up against Marth.
Too good lol. What a noobasaurus.

 

[halfDemon]

My signature back-air spamming (it's all I know how to do!) works great, and so does edgeguarding with ledge-drop spin.

Lol. I just went to a tourney today. I gay'd Big C so badly by spamming those BAirs... Still lost, though...

After playing a bit more Marth with my DK today, I'm going to agree that the matchup isn't hopless, just very unfavorable. UThrow > UAir get's the job done nicely, as does BAir spamming. And Marth isn't too hard to edgeguard, either.

 

[NJzFinest]

Very good 777th post mah boy!

Speaking of Big C, I haven't tried Peach vs DK, Cort says it's fairly even (after playing Bum). I'll see if Iggy would care to have some matches with me when he's not being lazy.
Heh, I played CunningKitsune's Marth today in a friendly and almost made the sexiest 3 stock comeback on Yoshi Story. Cargo Up Uair is too sexy. Next time I'll try the ledge drop spin edgeguard.

 

[W.Jr]

i doubt lol

 

[halfDemon]

Very good 777th post mah boy!

Speaking of Big C, I haven't tried Peach vs DK, Cort says it's fairly even (after playing Bum). I'll see if Iggy would care to have some matches with me when he's not being lazy.
Heh, I played CunningKitsune's Marth today in a friendly and almost made the sexiest 3 stock comeback on Yoshi Story. Cargo Up Uair is too sexy. Next time I'll try the ledge drop spin edgeguard.

I definitely think Peach counters our ape. Turnip camping and shieldstabbing with DSmash *****. And the poor DK is easily edgegaurded, too.

i doubt lol

?

 

[pkmvodka]

I used to think peach ***** dk, but I begin to think just like cort. It's a good even match I think.

And I think marth is easier than peach. He just can't kill DK.

 

[Number 1 DK]

Ok, that was a great response. LOL

Take stuff out of context? You mean directly replying to each statement made in your post using relevant examples?
Nice one bro!
Who the hell are you anyways?....
Hey, maybe you just suck against Marth (in general). You make it seem like it isn't possible to touch Marth at all...when it is very possible to do so. You should prolly spend some more time getting better at this game rather than thinking you're actually good at it.
I mean, it must be embarrassing to get rolled by your little sister's Fsmash spamming Marth when you think you're the number one DK player lololol


So...my "argument" was DK not being completely assraped by Marth...and you said:

...
Nuff said.

Look, you first said 1 combo doesn't mean anything...then you say that one combo is one of the reasons why he can stand up against Marth.
Too good lol. What a noobasaurus.

I said that DK can only stand up to Marth if the Marth hasnt ever played a good DK before, the same is true for all characters lol

I do agree that I might have sounded like an ***, but those are just my views. You were the one who randomly started attacking my skill at this game lol. That is not very nice, cuz I know youre good but just cuz youve never heard of me doesnt make me suck. Every tourney that has been around me I have won, but unfortunately there are no big tourneys around Michigan lol. I'd prefer it if you would not make random attacks on my skill ok?

Also, I did not say Marth is untouchable for DK. Marth is one of the hardest to touch for DK however. Your earlier argument was that it is easier for Fox to cancel into shine and jc out than it is for Marth to perfectly space himself. Very true, but I doubt youre gonna see a fox player who only shuffles into jc'ed shines lol.

And taking stuff out of context is what u did, cuz u took part of my sentence to make it sound like i agreed with u.

And BTW, I dont have a little sisterlol

 

[halfDemon]

I used to think peach ***** dk, but I begin to think just like cort. It's a good even match I think.

And I think marth is easier than peach. He just can't kill DK.

Care to elaborate on the matchup?

 

[pkmvodka]

Care to elaborate on the matchup?

Well, the only thing marth has on DK in this matchup is good grabs and tech chasing. But that won't kill DK. While on the other hand, DK can actually combo marth very well with up airs / bairs. Double jump up throw to fair kills at fairly low % compared to marth who can pretty much only kill with tipper fwd smash or up tilt at very high %. Unless he gets an easy gimp at low %, but that doesn't happen much if the DK plays center stage and smart.

Ftilt has a ton of range, you can slap marth in his aerials. I think DK also has the upper hand in the edgeguard. Lightshield to ledge hop down air to giant punch / up air / fair is pretty ****.

Oh and bair to up b works, ,marth is tall so it's good to use.

I don't know, I never had much trouble in this matchup.

 

[halfDemon]

Lol. I meant Peach but that's good stuff, regardless. I never tried ledgehop > DAir because I always thought that the FAir is a better setup at higher percents. I will try, though.
Thanks, pkm.

 

[pkmvodka]

Lol. I meant Peach but that's good stuff, regardless. I never tried ledgehop > DAir because I always thought that the FAir is a better setup at higher percents. I will try, though.
Thanks, pkm.

Oh for peach? Just spam bairs, charge the punch and use it often. Grab at anything over 90% = KO against peach, it's pretty sweet. She will have trouble KOing you if you DI well, i've survived nairs at around 165% on FD before.

Also switch your grabbing strategy. Most of my grabs come from CCs and dd setups, but against peach, CC into grab won't work at all, yellow stick is mean to CC.

Again, peach is tall enough to get hit by the up b when shielding, so whenever you mess up your spacing on a bair, up b and hope that it pokes shield or something.

 

[jonkeponke]

does double jump cargo upthrow ---> FAir work on peach and marth regardless of percent? i've been trying it but it seems like they can DI out occasionally, or maybe i'm just not doing it right.

 

[MEXICAN]

My brother mains marth, so i know this matchup very well. Dk does have a chance, but Marth definately has the upper hand. My strategies are basically running away to charge the giant punch, using b airs when i can, if i do manage to get a grab, either u air or f air, depending on marths percentage, and just trying to survive by means of good influencing and ledge teching to survive forever. Giant punch is dk's best friend against marth. Up b works well since marth is tall. DDing is useful, but marth can do the same, so thats when it just comes down to mindgames. Marths ko's mainly come off of edgeguarding against dk, and it can be very difficult for dk to avoid marth's edgeguarding, but learning to ledge tech consistently will keep you alive a lot longer. If you grab marth at 0 damage, i would suggest cargo u throw, u air, up b (not the part with the hitback, the part that just racks up the damage)....You can easily get marth at over 40 damage from one grab that way. Vs marth is very stage dependent. At final d, i rarely lose to marth if ever, but at yoshi's story, i've come very close to losing to some very mediocre marths, that i would usually probably 3 stock. At small stages, its just too hard to avoid a tech chasing marth. I think Taj 2 stocked me at a small stage but then i beat his marth on final d.

 

[halfDemon]

I just wanted to say that pkm's opening combo on Kage at FD is pure ****. That is all.

 

[NJzFinest]

I do agree that I might have sounded like an ***, but those are just my views. You were the one who randomly started attacking my skill at this game lol. That is not very nice, cuz I know youre good but just cuz youve never heard of me doesnt make me suck. Every tourney that has been around me I have won, but unfortunately there are no big tourneys around Michigan lol. I'd prefer it if you would not make random attacks on my skill ok?

Awww, so sad *tear*

Also, I did not say Marth is untouchable for DK. Marth is one of the hardest to touch for DK however. Your earlier argument was that it is easier for Fox to cancel into shine and jc out than it is for Marth to perfectly space himself. Very true, but I doubt youre gonna see a fox player who only shuffles into jc'ed shines lol.

Truth, but that doesn't change the fact Fox is harder to grab.

And taking stuff out of context is what u did, cuz u took part of my sentence to make it sound like i agreed with u.

And BTW, I dont have a little sisterlol

Some people can't take jokezz. I didn't think you were serious about my quote on you haha, I even spammed it and said "nuff said".

does double jump cargo upthrow ---> FAir work on peach and marth regardless of percent? i've been trying it but it seems like they can DI out occasionally, or maybe i'm just not doing it right.

DON'T double jump. Do a rising Fair from a full jump (Jump and Fair immediately). It hits Peach/Marth somewhere above the 90s%, I forget. Watch Bum vs PC Chris's Peach on Brinstar.


edit: thanks Mexican for the input, I was waiting for you to post Cargo up to Uair, Up B sounds sexy.

 

[abit_rusty]

If you grab marth at 0 damage, i would suggest cargo u throw, u air, up b (not the part with the hitback, the part that just racks up the damage)....You can easily get marth at over 40 damage from one grab that way.

This is a little known gem that is basically freebie damage. I think mexican already mentioned this before and I never forgot it. Sometimes, if I manage on doing this twice vs marth, I go for some uair KO's after. Also, just wait for a missed fsmash and start pushing in with those bairs. You'd be surprised how far the tip of DK's foot goes.

 

[MEXICAN]

Actually, if you grab a marth at low damage, you do a cargo u throw, full jumped u air, and then if you space it right, you can actually hit marth with the knockback part, and the non knockback part for more damage. I think you have to hit marth around where dk's face is. This should put marth high enough to get hit with the knockback, but close enough that his hands will catch him and do more damage. You have to do the up b into marth though, meaning following his influence. I've done it plenty of times before, but it is a bit difficult and i'm not sure how much damage it does. If anyone wants to find out and post it, that would make them totally awesome. So i think someone should go find out and post it so that they can say that they are totally awesome since The MEXICAN says so.

 

[El HP]

I feel that marth has the edge on small stages but on normal sized stages like Pokemon Stadium I think is kinda even, on huge stages like dreamland or kongo jungle 64 is hell for marth to get a kill so in this case I think DK has the edge.

BTW f-tilts and giant punch is good on marth.

 

[halfDemon]

Grounded DAir > UTilt > Up+B = off-guard ****.

 

[Number 1 DK]

Awww, so sad *tear*

Truth, but that doesn't change the fact Fox is harder to grab.

Some people can't take jokezz. I didn't think you were serious about my quote on you haha, I even spammed it and said "nuff said".

DON'T double jump. Do a rising Fair from a full jump (Jump and Fair immediately). It hits Peach/Marth somewhere above the 90s%, I forget. Watch Bum vs PC Chris's Peach on Brinstar.


edit: thanks Mexican for the input, I was waiting for you to post Cargo up to Uair, Up B sounds sexy.

wow still an ***

whatever

 

[MEXICAN]

Grounded DAir > UTilt > Up+B = off-guard ****.

Thats pretty tough to land...Landing a d air on anyone while they're on the ground with DK is pretty tough...

 

[halfDemon]

Thats pretty tough to land...Landing a d air on anyone while they're on the ground with DK is pretty tough...

Definitely agreed. I did it once in a friendly by predicting how the Marth would get up from the ledge, though.

I am going to say that DK's UTilt is underrated and underused, though.

 

[MEXICAN]

Definitely agreed. I did it once in a friendly by predicting how the Marth would get up from the ledge, though.

I am going to say that DK's UTilt is underrated and underused, though.

I don't like DK's u tilt cuz its not fast enough to make me wanna use it over a sh u air or an up b, and its a little on the laggy side. I almost never use the u tilt

 

[pkmvodka]

I don't like DK's u tilt cuz its not fast enough to make me wanna use it over a sh u air or an up b, and its a little on the laggy side. I almost never use the u tilt

Dk's up tilt is his worst move. 2nd to his side b.

 

[MEXICAN]

Dk's up tilt is his worst move. 2nd to his side b.

Yeah, the only thing i even use his forward b for is to stall myself on stages where there's either a barrel below the stage and i wanna stall until it comes within range, or if its on a stage like brinstar where you can wait until the acid like stuff can hit you and give you another chance to recover if you're out too far. Other than that, the move is pretty much useless, and i just about never use the u tilt for anything

 

[pkmvodka]

Yeah, the only thing i even use his forward b for is to stall myself on stages where there's either a barrel below the stage and i wanna stall until it comes within range, or if its on a stage like brinstar where you can wait until the acid like stuff can hit you and give you another chance to recover if you're out too far. Other than that, the move is pretty much useless, and i just about never use the u tilt for anything

I use the side b to turn around when i'm high up there and trying to recover if I already have my punch charged.