IceColdSoda
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2014
- Messages
- 27
Yo, I'm a Marth main and I've always played Marth in pretty much every smash game he's in and i'm also pretty good. In Smash 4, Marth was nerfed a lot and I originally thought he was pretty bad but I still decided to play him in order to find new things with him and to expand his metagame in hopes of he could be viable again. I've found some interesting techniques I'd like to share and after discovering these I found that this version of Marth is mostly just a weaker version of the Marth in Melee. I see Marth to be in high tier (semi-viable) now and I feel like he could be borderline top tier as well, though I still feels he needs a buff.
Spacing:
Spacing has always been one of the things that made Marth so good in previous installments of Smash Bros. and contrary to popular belief, Marth's sword is not shorter in Smash 4. It definitely feels longer than in Brawl but a bit shorter than Melee. I feel like a lot of the issues on why people feel it's shorter is because the Marth in Smash 4 suffers from long landing lag, they just don't properly space them well, and they underestimate it's length.
In my opinion you don't always have to go for tippers (applies to every smash game) which might sound strange to some people, after all shouldn't you always be trying to hit with the tip?
Well I always considered Marth to have more aerial moves than other characters which are:
No tip Fair, No tip Bair, No tip Uair, No tip Dair, No tip Nair, Tipper Fair, Tipper Bair, Tipper Uair, Tipper Dair, and Tipper Nair
Why is this important to know? Because if you don't hit the tip you get weaker damage however you get lower knockback which leads to easier follow ups. If you hit the tip you get more damage and stronger knockback. Here's an example of me using this knowledge to my advantage in Smash 4.
http://gfycat.com/TastyGrouchyGroundbeetle
Knowing when to go for the tip or the base is pretty important for Marth. Getting tippers is always better though but going for the base isn't always a bad option. Based on the situation you want to know what part of the blade you'll want to hit. Tipper is always more safer though and usually more rewarding.
Landing Lag:
Marth's always been a rather fast character and that holds true for him even in Smash 4, however despite this a lot of his moves were given a lot of landing lag which not only throws off spacing for a lot of people but limits many options since moves with high landing lag are very punishable (Especially in a game with low shield stun).
However, I found there are many things you can do with Marth to give him a rather viable approach, eliminate a ton of landing lag, and properly space moves.
Do not fast fall any of his moves except Uair. You suffer from landing lag when you land after doing a move or during the move however Marth's short hop gives you just enough time to actually use a bair or fair before you can hit the ground and get hit with landing lag. This basically means, you can pretty much make his bair and fair rather lagless. You just have to short hop and after that you have to immediately use fair or bair, it has strict timing and you can't fast fall it. However if you fast fall any of his moves, not only do you suffer from lag but you aren't fully taking advantage of the range of his moves. It all comes back together. This is actually something I found myself a while ago. So basically, when short hopping be quick to use a fair or bair and don't fast fall. You will use more of Marth's range if you were to fast fall and you won't get hit by any landing lag and there's many options you can do with this. Such as:
- short hop fair into forward smash. This is rather quick, a very good finisher and you can use forward smash literally right after you fair.
- short hop fair into dash into short hop fair. This is a extremely viable approach option and is pretty dangerous to your opponent. After you short hop fair you dash for like a split second and then do another short hop fair and rinse and repeat. It combos into itself very well, the tipper is easy to hit, and it even hits your opponent even if they're on the ground to continue the combo.
-short hop fair into double jump fair. If you short hop fair, you already know now it finishes the move before landing, however this actually gives you time to input your double jump to do a second fair and even a third fair (the third one usually suffers from it's landing lag though but you still forward smash rather quick from it).
-short hop bair. Bair has a lot of range, it's fast, and it's a kill move.
-short hop bair into double jump fair. Bair and Fair are very similar because you can short hop them with out much lag and even use your double jump after short hopping them, you can use this interchangeably.
These are just some examples you can do with Marth's fair and bair that are very viable. Don't be afraid to approach with these but like always you must be cautious. Get creative with these and use it to your advantage.
Throws:
His throws have a ton of knockback compared to previous installments and that makes it pretty hard to follow up from them. (down throw has many good follow ups). However this may seem like a nerf. I don't agree. It nerfs one area of Marth's playstyle but by adding more knockback (specifically back throw and forward throw) it actually helps his edge guarding game quite a lot (a lot of the recoveries in this game are super amazing so this is pretty important) and forward throw into fair or back throw into bair usually links into the tips. His throws have more limiting follow up options but they have very good edgeguarding potential. Take this curse and turn it into a blessing.
Extras:
I mentioned earlier than this version of Marth is actually like a worse version of Melee Marth (Worse doesn't mean bad, I think Marth is rather good in this game). A lot of Melee Marth knowledge will transfer over to this game and a lot of Brawl Marth knowledge will transfer over. I main Marth in Melee and Brawl and even this game and i'm also very good with him. I didn't discuss everything you can do with Marth in Smash 4 because I want to keep this short and you really just gotta get creative with him. short hop fair into shield breaker is a rather good semi-retreating option for example. And I can't stress this enough, get creative with him and try new things with him. I wrote a lot here but there truly is so much more I can write. I used to see Smash 4 Marth as pretty bad but I experimented with him because I saw potential. I really do believe he's high tier or borderline top tier. I discovered all this stuff on my own in case any of you were wondering. If any of you have questions, feel free to ask me.
Also please check this website out.
http://www.royforsmash4.com/
Spacing:
Spacing has always been one of the things that made Marth so good in previous installments of Smash Bros. and contrary to popular belief, Marth's sword is not shorter in Smash 4. It definitely feels longer than in Brawl but a bit shorter than Melee. I feel like a lot of the issues on why people feel it's shorter is because the Marth in Smash 4 suffers from long landing lag, they just don't properly space them well, and they underestimate it's length.
In my opinion you don't always have to go for tippers (applies to every smash game) which might sound strange to some people, after all shouldn't you always be trying to hit with the tip?
Well I always considered Marth to have more aerial moves than other characters which are:
No tip Fair, No tip Bair, No tip Uair, No tip Dair, No tip Nair, Tipper Fair, Tipper Bair, Tipper Uair, Tipper Dair, and Tipper Nair
Why is this important to know? Because if you don't hit the tip you get weaker damage however you get lower knockback which leads to easier follow ups. If you hit the tip you get more damage and stronger knockback. Here's an example of me using this knowledge to my advantage in Smash 4.
http://gfycat.com/TastyGrouchyGroundbeetle
Knowing when to go for the tip or the base is pretty important for Marth. Getting tippers is always better though but going for the base isn't always a bad option. Based on the situation you want to know what part of the blade you'll want to hit. Tipper is always more safer though and usually more rewarding.
Landing Lag:
Marth's always been a rather fast character and that holds true for him even in Smash 4, however despite this a lot of his moves were given a lot of landing lag which not only throws off spacing for a lot of people but limits many options since moves with high landing lag are very punishable (Especially in a game with low shield stun).
However, I found there are many things you can do with Marth to give him a rather viable approach, eliminate a ton of landing lag, and properly space moves.
Do not fast fall any of his moves except Uair. You suffer from landing lag when you land after doing a move or during the move however Marth's short hop gives you just enough time to actually use a bair or fair before you can hit the ground and get hit with landing lag. This basically means, you can pretty much make his bair and fair rather lagless. You just have to short hop and after that you have to immediately use fair or bair, it has strict timing and you can't fast fall it. However if you fast fall any of his moves, not only do you suffer from lag but you aren't fully taking advantage of the range of his moves. It all comes back together. This is actually something I found myself a while ago. So basically, when short hopping be quick to use a fair or bair and don't fast fall. You will use more of Marth's range if you were to fast fall and you won't get hit by any landing lag and there's many options you can do with this. Such as:
- short hop fair into forward smash. This is rather quick, a very good finisher and you can use forward smash literally right after you fair.
- short hop fair into dash into short hop fair. This is a extremely viable approach option and is pretty dangerous to your opponent. After you short hop fair you dash for like a split second and then do another short hop fair and rinse and repeat. It combos into itself very well, the tipper is easy to hit, and it even hits your opponent even if they're on the ground to continue the combo.
-short hop fair into double jump fair. If you short hop fair, you already know now it finishes the move before landing, however this actually gives you time to input your double jump to do a second fair and even a third fair (the third one usually suffers from it's landing lag though but you still forward smash rather quick from it).
-short hop bair. Bair has a lot of range, it's fast, and it's a kill move.
-short hop bair into double jump fair. Bair and Fair are very similar because you can short hop them with out much lag and even use your double jump after short hopping them, you can use this interchangeably.
These are just some examples you can do with Marth's fair and bair that are very viable. Don't be afraid to approach with these but like always you must be cautious. Get creative with these and use it to your advantage.
Throws:
His throws have a ton of knockback compared to previous installments and that makes it pretty hard to follow up from them. (down throw has many good follow ups). However this may seem like a nerf. I don't agree. It nerfs one area of Marth's playstyle but by adding more knockback (specifically back throw and forward throw) it actually helps his edge guarding game quite a lot (a lot of the recoveries in this game are super amazing so this is pretty important) and forward throw into fair or back throw into bair usually links into the tips. His throws have more limiting follow up options but they have very good edgeguarding potential. Take this curse and turn it into a blessing.
Extras:
I mentioned earlier than this version of Marth is actually like a worse version of Melee Marth (Worse doesn't mean bad, I think Marth is rather good in this game). A lot of Melee Marth knowledge will transfer over to this game and a lot of Brawl Marth knowledge will transfer over. I main Marth in Melee and Brawl and even this game and i'm also very good with him. I didn't discuss everything you can do with Marth in Smash 4 because I want to keep this short and you really just gotta get creative with him. short hop fair into shield breaker is a rather good semi-retreating option for example. And I can't stress this enough, get creative with him and try new things with him. I wrote a lot here but there truly is so much more I can write. I used to see Smash 4 Marth as pretty bad but I experimented with him because I saw potential. I really do believe he's high tier or borderline top tier. I discovered all this stuff on my own in case any of you were wondering. If any of you have questions, feel free to ask me.
Also please check this website out.
http://www.royforsmash4.com/
