Marth SHFFL Help!!!

[michow87]

It seems that, for example, when i SH then neutral air and then FF, that i'm goin just as fast as if i were to SH, Nair, FF then L-cancel (SHFFL). anyone want to clear this up for me? because this seems to work for the fair and nair marth attacks.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Either you aren't l-cancelling properly, or you just aren't taking advantage of the reduced lag by doing something ASAP. The latter is more likely. Try shffling a fair, then dtilting as fast as you can, then try doing it without the l-cancel; you should notice the difference. So what you need to work on is actually using the reduced lag that l-cancelling gives you to dash, grab, jump, attack, anything.

 

[michow87]

yea, ur right. cause i've just recently began learning the shffl technique and been mainly using it in training mode or when playing against my friends (the majority being pretty bad) so i guess i havent felt the real need to quickly react after l-canceling.

 

[michow87]

another question i have that does not exactly relate, what do most people use to jump. i've been reading around and it says people use the "z" to jump and such as well as using the "c" stick for air attacks...i usually use the x or y button and A for air attacks.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

You can't jump with Z, that was either someone trolling/joking, or you just misread something. Most people use X or Y, a couple people use the control stick, though that gives you limited mobility as you jump unless you're really really fast. And the C-stick is generally better/easier for aerials because it gives you the option of moving backwards while fairing, or uairing without accidentally double jumping, or dairing without fastfalling. But if you can do this without the c-stick, more power to you (that's how Isai does it, I've heard).

 

[ArcNatural]

I also want to point out (as Ken has stated before somewhere in these Marth forums) that if you hit someone with the Nair fast you don't have to l-cancel at all and can just fastfall it. It has to be a early hit nair for this to happen (I think you have to hit on the rise and the second hit being as you reach the peak of the sh).

So if your shielding after hitting someone with the nair it's quite possible that you don't need to l-cancel at all. If your screwing up empty shffl nairs then it's just your timing.

 

[marcookker]

yeah, you can see it with links Dair

 

[Ipwn]

C-STICK FOR LIIIIFE!!!!


Learn to C-Stick all marth aerials to shuffle them. Fair. Dair. Nair ( lolz XD ) Bair...
All cstick em :'D Btw the Cstick is the Yellow stick on your right thumb. below the B.

As Marcookker said. Maby first practice with Link.. then preform a downward aerial onto
the ground. and then L cancel. If you did it propperly it would pull out his sword like 50%
Faster out of the ground.

 

[path411]

C-STICK FOR LIIIIFE!!!!


Learn to C-Stick all marth aerials to shuffle them. Fair. Dair. Nair ( lolz XD ) Bair...
All cstick em :'D Btw the Cstick is the Yellow stick on your right thumb. below the B.

As Marcookker said. Maby first practice with Link.. then preform a downward aerial onto
the ground. and then L cancel. If you did it propperly it would pull out his sword like 50%
Faster out of the ground.

you should learn to cstick almost every aerial in the game, it will help.
the actual attack isn't faster, it just reduces your lag so if l-canclled correctly you should be able to shffl a 2nd time alot quicker than normal.

 

[julealgon]

But what happens when you are SHL'ing a double Fair? I mean,it seems to me most people do the first Fair with the A button, and then the second with C-Stick...

Question is, isn't it too far apart from the jump button (meaning it would be too hard to follow with another aerial attack)? Or am I completely missing something here? Do you actually use up to jump in this case?


Hmm, BTW, this is my first post, so I hope to be a good addition to the community. Also, pardon my newbieness, as I've only learned the advanced techs two weeks ago... You can then realize how bad I actually am at the game.

 

[flaco]

Marth has a very complex game don't just go crazy trying the shhfl expecting to land the hit or just kill the opponent the game of marth is his range and grab range.Is like these try to past my range get fsmash pass my range get grabbed always use the the jc grab is more better also marth is very balanced just take your time.AlsoJulealgon Don't worry I will help you if you need help.

 

[Emblem Lord]

There is no such thing as Shuffled double fair. There is double Fair. Which is just a short hop the two fairs and the last fair is l-cancelled.

No the C-stick isn't to far away. Short hop then fair as soon as possible. While Marth is fairing move your finger to the C-stick. When the sword is past Marth's legs from the first fair hit forward on the C-stick for the next fair. Make sure to L-cancel the second fair as Marth lands.

 

[julealgon]

There is no such thing as Shuffled double fair.

Well, point me to who said that, because it certainly wasn't me.

Seriously, look at my post again. I said "SHL'ing", which, to me at least, stands for Short Hop -> L-Cancel.

Also, it seems this wasn't the only part in my post you skimmed through. I mentioned it was too far apart to chain a SECOND aerial attack... not because of the double fair itself.

Please, have a little more attention before coming to false conclusions.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok. No need to get touchy.

Anyway what exactly are you asking. Please lcarify. Are you asking could another aerial follow the first fair besides another fair? Or are you asking could something follow the double fair? I'm unclear on what you mean?

And don't use the acronym SHL for short hop L cancel. SHL means something else entirely.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

Make sure you're L-Cancelling in time. Try SHFFLing with Link or Young Link's Dair to really notice the difference.

I L-Cancel at the same time that I fast-fall.

 

[flaco]

Ok. No need to get touchy.

Anyway what exactly are you asking. Please lcarify. Are you asking could another aerial follow the first fair besides another fair? Or are you asking could something follow the double fair? I'm unclear on what you mean?

And don't use the acronym SHL for short hop L cancel. SHL means something else entirely.

Emblem lord remember these place is new to him and any other new starter just cut him some slack but shl for me means short hop laser anyway there new so just chill but yea emblem lord is right.

 

[BrTarolg]

its true that if you are fast enough, you may not need to l-cancel your nair.

this is in a similar way, that when using ice climbers bair, if you are fast enough its actually faster to not l-cancel.

i have no idea why, but it has to do with attacking as soon as you jump.

 

[julealgon]

Ok. No need to get touchy.

Look Emblem Lord, I'm not getting "touchy", maybe you were just a bit "harsh" in your comments. Is this a forum where post count makes people feel superior or something? Since I have now 3 posts, I must be seriously inferior to you on "teh |N+3rN3+Zorz!!!oneoneeleven" right?

Anyway what exactly are you asking. Please lcarify. Are you asking could another aerial follow the first fair besides another fair? Or are you asking could something follow the double fair?

I just questioned if a C-Stick'ed second fair wouldn't make it too hard to follow-up with another aerial attack, and I made it very clear in my first statement. Since I jump with the Y button, I would have to release the C-Stick (which will be tilted almost at the end of the SH) to press Y again, so that was why I asked if someone used UP to do the second jump in this case, or if you just worked it around.

And don't use the acronym SHL for short hop L cancel. SHL means something else entirely.

It certainly woudn't mean "Short Hop Laser" with Marth, right? Besides, I just ommited the FF part, what's so wrong about it?

Sorry if I'm being agressive here, but this is just intolerable. When you see people starting to feel superior it pretty much crosses the limit to me, that's all. It was just a very simple and straighforward question.

 

[flaco]

Julealgon Don't sweat it ok man is cool he just has his ways thats all.

 

[TheFifthMan]

Also, do you have to press L all the way? or can you just press it halfway to L cancel?

 

[julealgon]

Also, do you have to press L all the way? or can you just press it halfway to L cancel?

Any ammount will do, and Z also works.
You only need to click (max press) for Powershielding and air dodge (Wavedashing/Landing included) AFAIK.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Flaco: I just have my way? rofl. ok.

julealgon: Didn't mean to offend you. And where in my post did I try to make you inferior? I never insulted you. My post was objective. It's true I didn't type anything that would give you the impression of friendliness, but I never made you feel lower then myself. I couldn't care less how many posts you have. Posts count doesn't mean anything. Not to me anyway.

Don't you think you are jumping to some conclusions about my personality?

Anyway, for a SH double fair, most people use the a button for the first fair the the C-stick for the next. After that you would touch the ground. That's what is confusing me. Are you talking about another technique? I think you are saying you would jump > Fair >second jump > Fair. That's what is confusing me. In a short hop you would only have time for two aerials and then you would hit the ground. If you C-stick the first aerial, then yes, I find it diffucult to do another aerial. Which is why people usually C-stick the second aerial.

Don't know if that answers your question or not.

 

[pirkid]

F-air , then u-air, jump d-air.

If you can get a fast >B > < V .

 

[the_air_up_there7]

My cuzin needs help on this too but i have no idea how to explain to him, how exactly do you use shuffling with marth? I do it but with falco.

 

[julealgon]

julealgon: Didn't mean to offend you.

Ok, that's enough. I apologize then for my misconceptions about you...

After that you would touch the ground. That's what is confusing me. Are you talking about another technique? I think you are saying you would jump > Fair >second jump > Fair. That's what is confusing me.

No no, what I'm talking is that, after a double fair SH (is that better?) you would probably follow with another jumping attack, even more so if the enemy is at the center of the stage or less I assume..

I've been practicing this technique (double fair SH) today, to see how it was like, and my first thought still stands: I have too little time between the second fair + L-Cancel and another jump, because the second hit must be at the very end of the short hop, and my finger would be at the C-Stick, meaning it would be hard to connect another jump (be it short or full). So, that was my original question (that's if I was clear enough now). Do you just cope with it, or do you do it a different way, like jumping the second time with UP instead of X/Y?

BTW, sorry again about my behavior in the previous posts, I just have little tolerance to certain things, and I got ahead of myself it seems.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Now I know what you are talking. All I can say is practice and your fingers will speed up. You don't have to use the C-stick for the second fair though. It's good for when you want to do an aerial without actual moving in any direction.

 

[DJ Boonbuggy]

julealgon, you can do it with the C-stick, double fair that is, but it's rather hard, or at least it is for me. I, along with all the marths that I know, use jump -> over + a for the first fiar -> cstick for the second, it's a hectic run trying to grab the cstick in time, and using the a button for the first one just makes it a ton easier on you, and therefore makes it more likely that you actually do pull it off.

As for the main topic of this thread, yea, what IHSB said is right, you just need to learn to get used to taking advantage of the time you get via L canceling... just keep rolling with it, shffl a fair to grab, shffl nair (only first swipe should hit) to grab, shffl dair to utilt are all good things to be practicing