Marth....main?

[Untamed]

Hello everyone, I hope all of you are well. To begin, if I have posted this in the wrong section of the forums, I apologize, and would welcome a redirection to the correct section.

Now to my point; I haven't played smash since melee (yeah I know, a long time), and will be picking smash back up with SSB4 on thursday. I use to main Marth in melee, and I love his play style, and I feel comfortable with him. However, is he worth putting the time in, in SSB4? Or is he below average, and I should find a new character to main instead?


Thank you in advance for your help.

-untamed.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Hello everyone, I hope all of you are well. To begin, if I have posted this in the wrong section of the forums, I apologize, and would welcome a redirection to the correct section.

Now to my point; I haven't played smash since melee (yeah I know, a long time), and will be picking smash back up with SSB4 on thursday. I use to main Marth in melee, and I love his play style, and I feel comfortable with him. However, is he worth putting the time in, in SSB4? Or is he below average, and I should find a new character to main instead?


Thank you in advance for your help.

-untamed.

He is below average, but that doesn't mean you can't/ shouldn't main him.

 

[LZCXR]

Hello everyone, I hope all of you are well. To begin, if I have posted this in the wrong section of the forums, I apologize, and would welcome a redirection to the correct section.

Now to my point; I haven't played smash since melee (yeah I know, a long time), and will be picking smash back up with SSB4 on thursday. I use to main Marth in melee, and I love his play style, and I feel comfortable with him. However, is he worth putting the time in, in SSB4? Or is he below average, and I should find a new character to main instead?


Thank you in advance for your help.

-untamed.

He got nerfed hard his aerials now have increased landing lag, the spike is harder to hit with his throws are pretty bad since they throw too far away for them to be able to combo most of the time, but too close to be able to ko with them and overall has less range

 

[Untamed]

Is there a character you guys suggest to get back into smash?

 

[AetherStorm]

Is there a character you guys suggest to get back into smash?

Going from Melee to Sm4sh... Hm... Sheik and Fox are similar to their Melee counterparts, and are both really good characters, if that's what you're looking for.

 

[Deleted member]

While he did get nerfed in SSB4 he's definitely not unplayable by any means. You should definitely still try to give him a chance but also pick up other characters too.
Sheik and Fox are good like the above mentioned, also I think Ness is pretty good because he has great aerials and covers up a lot of Marth's bad matchups. If you don't mind a character with projectiles Link can be a good choice too but that's all up to you.

 

[Pugwest]

I still can place top ~5 - 7 in tournaments of 30+ with my Marth. Character just isn't fully understood and ima help make the Meta. The only problem currently is the top characters.

Sheik / Rosalina / Pikachu / Luigi are probably his only losing match ups for "Top 10"

 

[StrykerX]

Definitely not the best but I use him as a secondary and believe me, it's doable :3

 

[Emblem Lord]

I still can place top ~5 - 7 in tournaments of 30+ with my Marth. Character just isn't fully understood and ima help make the Meta. The only problem currently is the top characters.

Sheik / Rosalina / Pikachu / Luigi are probably his only losing match ups for "Top 10"

Disagree. I feel his meta, well his default special meta is very much understood. I certainly feel you, myself, Shaya, kj22 and the other high level Marth's know what we should be doing and not doing. We all didn't just start playing this character yesterday, you know?

 

[Honor]

Disagree. I feel his meta, well his default special meta is very much understood. I certainly feel you, myself, Shaya, kj22 and the other high level Marth's know what we should be doing and not doing. We all didn't just start playing this character yesterday, you know?

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anybody on the issue but: what are your thoughts on Mr. E's play?

I've seen him take games off M2K's Diddy and play very very well against Shieks and R and Ls. Just wondering if he's beating the heck out of people who suck or if he't the new gold standard?

 

[Emblem Lord]

As far as I know he performs the same as other high level Marths. Placings are solid. However Mr. E is NOT a Marth any Marth player thats coming up should watch. His style is almost 100% read based. He plays on instinct and you can see that within minutes of seeing his matches.

I think his style of play just works better now now because Marth simply isnt a safe character. So getting reads and sealing stocks gets better results.

I personally do not like his style. Never did. Him and Mikehaze back in the brawl days. I find their gameplay utterly repulsive. Not saying they arent skilled. They ARE skilled. Just ugly and ungraceful imo.

The antithesis of what Marth is imo.

 

[Eonn]

As far as I know he performs the same as other high level Marths. Placings are solid. However Mr. E is NOT a Marth any Marth player thats coming up should watch. His style is almost 100% read based. He plays on instinct and you can see that within minutes of seeing his matches.

I think his style of play just works better now now because Marth simply isnt a safe character. So getting reads and sealing stocks gets better results.

I personally do not like his style. Never did. Him and Mikehaze back in the brawl days. I find their gameplay utterly repulsive. Not saying they arent skilled. They ARE skilled. Just ugly and ungraceful imo.

The antithesis of what Marth is imo.

Who would you recommend watching then? Could you please link me to a few good sets?

 

[Pugwest]

Who would you recommend watching then? Could you please link me to a few good sets?

I've gone back and fourth with Mr.E on Wifi (Hopefully Play him offline soon) so if you'd like to watch some of my recent sets I can link you. My play style slightly changes with each tournament.

 

[Eonn]

I've gone back and fourth with Mr.E on Wifi (Hopefully Play him offline soon) so if you'd like to watch some of my recent sets I can link you. My play style slightly changes with each tournament.

Sure thing, thanks!

 

[Honor]

I've gone back and fourth with Mr.E on Wifi (Hopefully Play him offline soon) so if you'd like to watch some of my recent sets I can link you. My play style slightly changes with each tournament.

Could I get in on those links too? Always learn a lot from watching people.

As far as I know he performs the same as other high level Marths. Placings are solid. However Mr. E is NOT a Marth any Marth player thats coming up should watch. His style is almost 100% read based. He plays on instinct and you can see that within minutes of seeing his matches.

I think his style of play just works better now now because Marth simply isnt a safe character. So getting reads and sealing stocks gets better results.

I personally do not like his style. Never did. Him and Mikehaze back in the brawl days. I find their gameplay utterly repulsive. Not saying they arent skilled. They ARE skilled. Just ugly and ungraceful imo.

The antithesis of what Marth is imo.

Is it even possible to have a really flowing style of Marth in 4? He doesn't have nearly as much hit-stun or speed as in previous games so it doesn't seem possible when I play (not that I'm great, cause I'm not).

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mr.E basically ignores footsies alot of the time. Lack of flow is one thing. Ignoring fundamentals is another.

 

[ElementUser]

@ Emblem Lord , who are some good examples of high level Marth players to watch?

 

[Fluidityt]

Mr.E basically ignores footsies alot of the time. Lack of flow is one thing. Ignoring fundamentals is another.

If ignoring fundamentals lets him win then perhaps one should re-examine what the "fundamentals" truly are.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But..it gets him mauled in situations where he shouldnt have gotten mauled as well.

And no we arent going to play this game. Fundamentals are fundamentals for a reason and they aren't changing nor do they need re-evaluating. Someone being successful with a read based play style is nothing new or exclusive to Smash for that matter.

 

[Pugwest]

heres one of my most recent and uploaded fights.


http://www.twitch.tv/avgl/v/5004284

start @ 8:20 , the metaknight basically bodied me for a while. and caught me with down-b since TV had no sound. little dumb things. Ended up winning 2-1 and lack of teching got me rekt too. (also first offline sm4sh meta knight too XD)

next one same link is @ 1:15:45

Vs a Yoshi / Bowser Jr , 2-0

then i fought Sion off stream unfortunately. (Diddy) won 2-0



and last streamed match ended up being against Shin (One of our best if not best Diddy in New England) lost 0-2, first game was close and i messed up hard.

http://www.twitch.tv/avgl/v/5008031

@ 6 minutes

hope this helped u guys a little.

 

[Xisin]

I don't consider myself a top player, but I don't think there is a top marth player right now. Anyway here's a vid of me doing well... This is a ladder set form Anther's ladder, at the time both of us were racing to 1st on the ladder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qWL3l1ZVe0

Not every game I play is like this, I struggle with consistency. I'm god mode one set and awful the next.

 

[Fluidityt]

But..it gets him mauled in situations where he shouldnt have gotten mauled as well.

And no we arent going to play this game. Fundamentals are fundamentals for a reason and they aren't changing nor do they need re-evaluating. Someone being successful with a read based play style is nothing new or exclusive to Smash for that matter.

There's only one style of play: Guessing what your opponent is going to do. How many options of your opponent's moves are covered by your own inputs is the only thing that varies. You can cover a high amount but be predictable, or a low amount and be unpredictable.

This is the only fundamental of any competitive game. Everything else is a strategy or tactic executed to maximize the time spent covering options, and the amount and types of options covered.

Game over.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are going to tell me Mr.E does this when he plays? He does things that are 100% unsafe and pure risks. It's clear he is not playing to control space or limit options, but simply to get into his opponents mindset and deconstruct their gameplan. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

And there is certainly more then one style of play. I understand what you mean however it was worded incorrectly.

 

[kj22]

heres one of my most recent and uploaded fights.


http://www.twitch.tv/avgl/v/5004284

start @ 8:20 , the metaknight basically bodied me for a while. and caught me with down-b since TV had no sound. little dumb things. Ended up winning 2-1 and lack of teching got me rekt too. (also first offline sm4sh meta knight too XD)

next one same link is @ 1:15:45

Vs a Yoshi / Bowser Jr , 2-0

then i fought Sion off stream unfortunately. (Diddy) won 2-0



and last streamed match ended up being against Shin (One of our best if not best Diddy in New England) lost 0-2, first game was close and i messed up hard.

http://www.twitch.tv/avgl/v/5008031

@ 6 minutes

hope this helped u guys a little.

Those counters killed you vs Shin :/ Try walking more in neutral, way less committing then empty hops (if your opponent dashes to shield like shin was doing you can just dash grab/roll away behind vs being in the air and trying to aerial a shield or change your landing position because you're in an awkward spot) More dtilt traps would help too, and more dtilt in general. As Marth learning to stuff approaches will help you go along way because stuff approach-->gain stage control-->ledgetrap/edgeguard, where Marth is most potent. Learn to read dash to shields and make people fear using them against you, which forces them to approach different ways and opens the door to you get more/better punishes.
When ledgetrapping, just dtilt unless you've got a hard read on what they're going to do. This isn't the brawl days where a drifted back nair single-handidly destroyed people's attempt to get back on stage, doing an aerial on shield is likely to get you punished if not put you in a bad state. Dtilt's so much safer and faster, and allows you to react to what they like to do to it.
You had great follow ups, especially after knocking him down to the ground and he didn't tech. if you read that you can stutter step forward f-smash instead of dash attack.

When you can, watch the match again and see how many times he dash to shielded, trust me, you'll be surprised. Learn to recognize and grab him!!

Geez the amount of dash to shield-grabs he attempted sickens me. Reminds me of 99% of the Luigi's I fight. He literally tried to dash grab you with a banana by your feet.

P.S. I like how you started of BOTH games with an instant dash grab...then like forget how to the rest of the matches hahaha, I'm telling you learn to read those and it'll help so much. You can even get guaranteed shield breaks using sb since people are stuck in that dash animation if they try to shield. If you sense a dash to shield coming and you're spaced right, they'll be forced to take the hit and if their shield is low--POP!

 

[Pugwest]

Those counters killed you vs Shin :/ Try walking more in neutral, way less committing then empty hops (if your opponent dashes to shield like shin was doing you can just dash grab/roll away behind vs being in the air and trying to aerial a shield or change your landing position because you're in an awkward spot) More dtilt traps would help too, and more dtilt in general. As Marth learning to stuff approaches will help you go along way because stuff approach-->gain stage control-->ledgetrap/edgeguard, where Marth is most potent. Learn to read dash to shields and make people fear using them against you, which forces them to approach different ways and opens the door to you get more/better punishes.
When ledgetrapping, just dtilt unless you've got a hard read on what they're going to do. This isn't the brawl days where a drifted back nair single-handidly destroyed people's attempt to get back on stage, doing an aerial on shield is likely to get you punished if not put you in a bad state. Dtilt's so much safer and faster, and allows you to react to what they like to do to it.
You had great follow ups, especially after knocking him down to the ground and he didn't tech. if you read that you can stutter step forward f-smash instead of dash attack.

When you can, watch the match again and see how many times he dash to shielded, trust me, you'll be surprised. Learn to recognize and grab him!!

Geez the amount of dash to shield-grabs he attempted sickens me. Reminds me of 99% of the Luigi's I fight. He literally tried to dash grab you with a banana by your feet.

P.S. I like how you started of BOTH games with an instant dash grab...then like forget how to the rest of the matches hahaha, I'm telling you learn to read those and it'll help so much. You can even get guaranteed shield breaks using sb since people are stuck in that dash animation if they try to shield. If you sense a dash to shield coming and you're spaced right, they'll be forced to take the hit and if their shield is low--POP!

Thanks! I've gotten way smarter with my play style already as I do review each match I have on record. It's very nice having another persons perspective assisting me. Yeah that was Shin's style and it made him #3 in my Region but he moved back to Japan :/ Now we have only one good Diddy main and I actually beat him / the other Diddy.... my area is just super diverse.

 

[kj22]

Thanks! I've gotten way smarter with my play style already as I do review each match I have on record. It's very nice having another persons perspective assisting me. Yeah that was Shin's style and it made him #3 in my Region but he moved back to Japan :/ Now we have only one good Diddy main and I actually beat him / the other Diddy.... my area is just super diverse.

Excellent, re-watching vids of yourself is a must to fixing mistakes. What region are you in again? And are you planning on going to any big tournaments/travelling out of city?

 

[Pugwest]

Excellent, re-watching vids of yourself is a must to fixing mistakes. What region are you in again? And are you planning on going to any big tournaments/travelling out of city?

New England, and I plan on visiting Tri-state a few times this summer and as well as Central Florida. Might be going to Xanadu this Tuesday coming up if my carpool comes through.

 

[kj22]

New England, and I plan on visiting Tri-state a few times this summer and as well as Central Florida. Might be going to Xanadu this Tuesday coming up if my carpool comes through.

Sounds good, keep updating results/matches, nice marth(:

 

[SterlingMaroon]

Personally, I know a lot of people have said they found him to be low tier, but I just haven't found it in Marth. If you've practiced with him a lot in Brawl (which it seems you haven't), then he is going to feel comfortable. If not, finding a new main should be priority. It's not bad having different mains per game, anyway. I've tested other characters, but because I've always played Marth in Brawl, I never found someone I could play better as in Smash Wii U and 3DS.