KaosKun
Smash Cadet
DISCLAIMER I am beginning this and will refine it later on as others and mostly emblem lord's posts help out. I am probably the last person on here that should be making a thread like this however i decided to start this so people can learn more about Marth and how his moves work. Plus character match ups and percents. but for now i will post basics and my ideas on things...once again if you want me to say something about a particular move post it and i will incorporate it in...thank you in advance for those who help with this...If most feel this is unnecessary then take it out otherwise i think this will be helpful to those who want to learn marth in general or better...i also apologize i wrote this at about 1 in the morning ET
Table of Contents
Pros and Cons
Pros
Cons
Transition from melee to brawl
Let's be honest here, Marth got both buffed and nerfed here. Mostly nerfed. Most importantly, his range is nor longer the same. This means safely fsmashing for spacing is not as applicable anymore. I played melee competitvely for about a year before brawl came out so i don't know much about him. Those who know more can help me here a ton.
A moveset
Jab and Smashes
Jab
The jab is a basic swing of Marth's sword. The disjointed hitbox at the end of marth's sword can be used to knock back basic projectiles. This means you can mix up power shielding and jabbing. Marth's jab has little knockback even with a tip but can still push people out of range of attacking Marth. The range on the move is decent probably his 4th or 5th best ranged move, spamming it however is not adivsed because of the little payback you would get from constantly using it.
Forward Smash
A big kill move. A tipper from this and the opponent could be leaving the stage fairly quickly. However, miss and your opponent will be making you feel like an idiot for using it. This move lost a lot of its potential when marth's sword got shorter. the lag is to great to spam it so don't. This is probably best saved for a good use later on, especially with diminishing returns. This move has decent range, probably the 3rd best ranged move, but don't be using this to space anymore.
Up Smash
The move is now useful, or at least i didn't use marth's upsmash in melee that often. This move has a decent sized hitbox. Even when the person thinks they are safe you can potentially hit with this. a power shield to upsmash might be good depending on the character you are playing against. The move does have a few drawbacks. The move is slow to start up and lags at the end before marth brings the sword down. Use this move wisely, it has a lot of knockback and can kill light characters fairly easy.
Down Smash
Want a spot dodge punish move? Here it is. The downsmash is very quick to come out in front and has a bigger tip than most, or seems like it. The back part of the attack comes out a bit slower, so be careful. Your opponent has a chance to react if they are behind you. This move does lack a bit in horizontal range though, therefore better used at close distances. This move has good knockback and can easily kill straight up with tip.
Tilts
Forward Tilt
This move has great range, second best, and priority. Not to mention very fast. The knockback on the move is pretty good even on a non tip. Because of the swipe made, making contact can knock players in weird directions making DI harder on your opponents. A tip from this blade, can do some serious knock back. This move is a great spacing tool because it has little lag at the end if they are not close enough to be hit with the sword then they probably won't be able to punish, from what i have seen.
Up Tilt
This move is basically the same as in melee. The range is just smaller because of the blade length. Also, there is a part in the swipe where your opponent looks as if they should be hit but won't be, why i don't know. Good knockback and damage. Should be used especially on stages with platforms and in conjucture with the up smash.
Down Tilt
Also the same. This move is quick and also has good range. The move can also be cancelled meaning you can immediately go to a smash attack during the withdraw of the blade, pointed out to me by someone else...test it and tell me if he is correct. This move should also be spammed especially because the hit box is very weird and ground strikes can be cancelled with it.
Air Moves
Neutral Air
Good move. Knock back on second hit is fairly good. Can use first swing for spacing making just the second hit hit the person. If anticipating the air dodge, can generally hit when opponent comes back in. Decent damage.
Forward Air
Used mostly as a spacing tool. Very quick and can be down twice before falling to the ground, this can set up other moves. Decent damage. Knock is now horizontal not vertical with tip. Spammable but debateable whether it should be down. Can now be used to semi-wall.
Up Air
Good vertical kill move. Suprised no one uses it consitently. Short hopped to falling this move will make you stand up quickly and still produce the hit boxes of the move if done right.
Down Air
Can still spike. Most often on the back part and with tip. A good method of spiking is the footstool(jump on opponent) to immediate dair. Otherwise, pushes enemy in direction of hit, sometimes up.
B Moveset
Neutral B
This move has changed drastically from melee. This move is marth's longest ranged strike. The move actually breaks shields now and can be used in conjucture with other moves. The move apparently has 4 sections it can hit with, 2 of them being tips(I would like verification on this). Knockback is dependent on where the move hits. This move also has a lot of lag. Missing with it will mean you get punished. The recovery with this move is iffy and should only be done to pretty much sweet spot with up B. Otherwise people will wait for you and keep knocking you back, sometimes nailing you with a fully charged fsmash. So be careful using this as a recovery tactic.
Forward B
SPAM THIS MOVE. simple enough the move has changed as well from melee and is far better. the move changes depending on the direction you are holding when you press B. 2 of the 3 final moves have good killing potential as well. The normal(red) b can knock horizontally while the up(blue) can knock vertically. The down(green) is a multi-hit move that can rack up damage. I find myself using this most often and blue to combo up. The speed of the move varies depending on how fast you press B. You can also get a little bit more air off your jump if you use forward B at the top of the jump. This move can be punished by hitting the opponent shielding through or spot dodging a slower version. So change your speeds.
Down B
This move has also gotten a buff from melee. It does decent knockback(i don't know the stats on it). A good defense move against projectiles you would not be able to stop with a jab . This move also leaves you very vulnerable if your opponent does not attack you. So use with extreme caution, try to use it when you know your opponent is going to use a move.
Up B
recovery move. kill move. so many uses it makes one's head spin. This move can be done out of a shield, spot dodge or ledge hop. Hitting with this move can be devestating to your opponent. Missing can have the same effect on you. The drop lag and set your opponent up for comboing in the air.
Grab Moveset
Marth's grabs are some of the worst in the game, however DON'T GIVE UP ON THE GRAB. The change of tactic it brings is essential to become a better player in general. With that said i will explain marth's grabs.
Attacking with Grab
This racks up damage. Thats about it. if you hold them long enough and do this against some characters, you can instantly grab right after if timed perfectly, Lucas and Ness are good examples however you can do it to some others too.
Down Throw
Bounces opponent back a decent distance. With enough mind games and knowing your opponent you can chain some of these together and rack up some damage.
Forward Throw
Throws opponent forward a good distance. Can potentially set up a fair
Up throw
Throws your opponent up. Allows the opponent to be combo'd, useful against characters with bad air moves. Height depends on opponents damage.
Stage Analysis
A big thing when it comes to tournies is knowing what stages are good and bad for a character. Knowing these can help you ban stages that would be extremely bad for Marth to play on.
(This will be posted when i am done with more analysis)
Emblem Lord's Past Posts on Marth
Pros and Cons
Marth Strategies
Grab Game
ShieldBreaker
Match Ups
Table of Contents
Pros and Cons
Changes from Melee to Brawl
A Moveset
B Moveset
Grab moveset
Stage Analysis(in progress, need more testing and advice)
Compilation of Emblem Lord's posts
Pros and Cons
Pros
Quick
Can create large knock back with most moves
Good range
Special Moveset has been buffed
Disjointed Hitboxes
Cons
By no means heavy
No projectiles
Grab game is terrible but still usable
Has decent priority but only with tip
shortened reach
Transition from melee to brawl
Let's be honest here, Marth got both buffed and nerfed here. Mostly nerfed. Most importantly, his range is nor longer the same. This means safely fsmashing for spacing is not as applicable anymore. I played melee competitvely for about a year before brawl came out so i don't know much about him. Those who know more can help me here a ton.
A moveset
Jab and Smashes
Jab
The jab is a basic swing of Marth's sword. The disjointed hitbox at the end of marth's sword can be used to knock back basic projectiles. This means you can mix up power shielding and jabbing. Marth's jab has little knockback even with a tip but can still push people out of range of attacking Marth. The range on the move is decent probably his 4th or 5th best ranged move, spamming it however is not adivsed because of the little payback you would get from constantly using it.
Forward Smash
A big kill move. A tipper from this and the opponent could be leaving the stage fairly quickly. However, miss and your opponent will be making you feel like an idiot for using it. This move lost a lot of its potential when marth's sword got shorter. the lag is to great to spam it so don't. This is probably best saved for a good use later on, especially with diminishing returns. This move has decent range, probably the 3rd best ranged move, but don't be using this to space anymore.
Up Smash
The move is now useful, or at least i didn't use marth's upsmash in melee that often. This move has a decent sized hitbox. Even when the person thinks they are safe you can potentially hit with this. a power shield to upsmash might be good depending on the character you are playing against. The move does have a few drawbacks. The move is slow to start up and lags at the end before marth brings the sword down. Use this move wisely, it has a lot of knockback and can kill light characters fairly easy.
Down Smash
Want a spot dodge punish move? Here it is. The downsmash is very quick to come out in front and has a bigger tip than most, or seems like it. The back part of the attack comes out a bit slower, so be careful. Your opponent has a chance to react if they are behind you. This move does lack a bit in horizontal range though, therefore better used at close distances. This move has good knockback and can easily kill straight up with tip.
Tilts
Forward Tilt
This move has great range, second best, and priority. Not to mention very fast. The knockback on the move is pretty good even on a non tip. Because of the swipe made, making contact can knock players in weird directions making DI harder on your opponents. A tip from this blade, can do some serious knock back. This move is a great spacing tool because it has little lag at the end if they are not close enough to be hit with the sword then they probably won't be able to punish, from what i have seen.
Up Tilt
This move is basically the same as in melee. The range is just smaller because of the blade length. Also, there is a part in the swipe where your opponent looks as if they should be hit but won't be, why i don't know. Good knockback and damage. Should be used especially on stages with platforms and in conjucture with the up smash.
Down Tilt
Also the same. This move is quick and also has good range. The move can also be cancelled meaning you can immediately go to a smash attack during the withdraw of the blade, pointed out to me by someone else...test it and tell me if he is correct. This move should also be spammed especially because the hit box is very weird and ground strikes can be cancelled with it.
Air Moves
Neutral Air
Good move. Knock back on second hit is fairly good. Can use first swing for spacing making just the second hit hit the person. If anticipating the air dodge, can generally hit when opponent comes back in. Decent damage.
Forward Air
Used mostly as a spacing tool. Very quick and can be down twice before falling to the ground, this can set up other moves. Decent damage. Knock is now horizontal not vertical with tip. Spammable but debateable whether it should be down. Can now be used to semi-wall.
Up Air
Good vertical kill move. Suprised no one uses it consitently. Short hopped to falling this move will make you stand up quickly and still produce the hit boxes of the move if done right.
Down Air
Can still spike. Most often on the back part and with tip. A good method of spiking is the footstool(jump on opponent) to immediate dair. Otherwise, pushes enemy in direction of hit, sometimes up.
B Moveset
Neutral B
This move has changed drastically from melee. This move is marth's longest ranged strike. The move actually breaks shields now and can be used in conjucture with other moves. The move apparently has 4 sections it can hit with, 2 of them being tips(I would like verification on this). Knockback is dependent on where the move hits. This move also has a lot of lag. Missing with it will mean you get punished. The recovery with this move is iffy and should only be done to pretty much sweet spot with up B. Otherwise people will wait for you and keep knocking you back, sometimes nailing you with a fully charged fsmash. So be careful using this as a recovery tactic.
Forward B
SPAM THIS MOVE. simple enough the move has changed as well from melee and is far better. the move changes depending on the direction you are holding when you press B. 2 of the 3 final moves have good killing potential as well. The normal(red) b can knock horizontally while the up(blue) can knock vertically. The down(green) is a multi-hit move that can rack up damage. I find myself using this most often and blue to combo up. The speed of the move varies depending on how fast you press B. You can also get a little bit more air off your jump if you use forward B at the top of the jump. This move can be punished by hitting the opponent shielding through or spot dodging a slower version. So change your speeds.
Down B
This move has also gotten a buff from melee. It does decent knockback(i don't know the stats on it). A good defense move against projectiles you would not be able to stop with a jab . This move also leaves you very vulnerable if your opponent does not attack you. So use with extreme caution, try to use it when you know your opponent is going to use a move.
Up B
recovery move. kill move. so many uses it makes one's head spin. This move can be done out of a shield, spot dodge or ledge hop. Hitting with this move can be devestating to your opponent. Missing can have the same effect on you. The drop lag and set your opponent up for comboing in the air.
Grab Moveset
Marth's grabs are some of the worst in the game, however DON'T GIVE UP ON THE GRAB. The change of tactic it brings is essential to become a better player in general. With that said i will explain marth's grabs.
Attacking with Grab
This racks up damage. Thats about it. if you hold them long enough and do this against some characters, you can instantly grab right after if timed perfectly, Lucas and Ness are good examples however you can do it to some others too.
Down Throw
Bounces opponent back a decent distance. With enough mind games and knowing your opponent you can chain some of these together and rack up some damage.
Forward Throw
Throws opponent forward a good distance. Can potentially set up a fair
Up throw
Throws your opponent up. Allows the opponent to be combo'd, useful against characters with bad air moves. Height depends on opponents damage.
Stage Analysis
A big thing when it comes to tournies is knowing what stages are good and bad for a character. Knowing these can help you ban stages that would be extremely bad for Marth to play on.
(This will be posted when i am done with more analysis)
Emblem Lord's Past Posts on Marth
Pros and Cons
Marth Strategies
Grab Game
ShieldBreaker
Match Ups
