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Marth Frame Data

Discussion in 'Marth' started by UMR | donmk, May 27, 2014.

  1. UMR | donmk

    UMR | donmk
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    RIP PM

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    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2008
    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    Australia
    [​IMG]
    Marth Project M 3.6 Frame Data

    This thread has been requested in these boards a bit recently. So I teamed up with @Aerodrome and we proudly present Marth's Project M Frame Data. Please note that all animations run at 1/3 game speed (20 fps).

    There is a lot of information in this post, so to make it easier to navigate, I have placed the data into groups as follows:

    Terms Used [TRM]
    Normal Moves [MOV]
    Aerial Moves [AIR]
    Special Moves [SPC]
    Grabs [GRB]
    Dodges and Rolls [DGD]
    Get up Moves [GUP]
    Ledge Moves [LDG]
    Techs [TCH]

    If you wish to go to a specific section, search for the three letter section code.

    Finally, if there are any requests for extra data, please note them here and we'll try to find it.

    Terms Used[TRM]

    This is a list of terms used below and an explanation of what they mean.

    Hitbox Active: Frames during which the attack's hitboxes are active.
    FAF (First Actionable Frame): First frame on which you can perform another move. This will be the animation's end or the IASA frame if the move has one.
    Base Damage: Base damage values for each hit.
    Angle: Angle at which the opponent will be knocked away.
    Sakurai Angle: A special knockback angle. The actual direction of the angle varies depending on whether the opponent is grounded as well as the strength of the knockback. For more information, see http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sakurai_angle
    BKB: Base knockback of the move.
    KBG: Knockback growth of the move. This number affects how quickly knockback will increase relative to the opponent's damage.
    WKB: Weight Knockback, used instead of BKB for fixed knockback hitboxes. Such a hitbox is usually denoted with a '*'.
    Block Advantage: Ground moves only. Frame difference between Marth's FAF and the opponent's when the move hits the opponent's shield. Counted from first hit frame per damage value. Add +7 to find the normal shield drop advantage.
    Landing Lag: Aerials only. Number of frames Marth lags when he hits the ground during the move.
    Autocancel: Aerials only. Frames during which Marth can land without the aerial move's landing lag. (He will instead suffer normal jump landing lag.)
    Intangibility: Frames during which Marth will take no damage.
    Clang: Whether the hitbox can clang with other moves. Since most of Marth's moves can clang, it will only be mentioned if the move cannot clang.

    Normal Moves [MOV]

    Jab 1
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 4-7
    Link to Jab 2: 20
    FAF: 26
    Block Advantage: -18
    Sourspots
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 50
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 6
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Jab 2

    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active:4-9
    Link to Jab 1: 20
    FAF: 26
    Block Advantage: -17
    Sourspots
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 50
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 6
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Dash Attack
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 12-15
    FAF: 41
    Block Advantage: -22
    Arm Sourspots
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 35
    KBG: 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspots
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 70
    KBG: 55
    Angle: 110​

    Sword Sweetspot
    Damage: 12
    BKB: 70
    KBG: 55
    Angle: 110​

    F Tilt
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 7-10
    FAF: 36
    Block Advantage: -22
    Sourspots
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 13
    BKB: 60
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    U Tilt
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 6-8, 9-12
    FAF: 32
    Block Advantage: -19
    First Set of Hitboxes
    Shoulder
    Damage: 8
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 116
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Arm
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 118
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 120
    Angle: 110​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 12
    BKB: 50
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 110​

    Second Set of Hitboxes
    Shoulder
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 116
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Arm
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 118
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 10
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 120
    Angle: 85​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 13
    BKB: 50
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 85​

    D Tilt
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 7-9
    FAF: 20 (Note that D tilt has a special FAF that does not allow a cancel into shield)
    Block Advantage: -6
    Shoulder Sourspots
    Damage: 8
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 30​

    Arm Sourspots
    Damage: 8
    BKB: 25
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 30​

    Sword Sourspots
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 30​

    Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 10
    BKB: 50
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 30​

    F Smash
    [​IMG]
    Startup: 3
    Hitbox Active: 8-11
    FAF: 46
    Block Advantage: -29
    Sourspots
    Damage: 14
    BKB: 60
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 20
    BKB: 80
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    U Smash
    [​IMG]
    Startup: 5
    Hitbox Active: 9-13
    FAF: 42
    Block Advantage: -27
    Foot Sourspots*
    Damage: 8
    WKB: 100
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 75
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage:15
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 80
    Angle: 90​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 18
    BKB: 60
    KBG: 80
    Angle: 90​

    D Smash
    [​IMG]
    Startup: 4
    Hitbox Active: 2-4, 17-19
    FAF: 59
    Block Advantage: -50, -35
    First Set of Hitboxes
    Hip
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 16
    KBG: 100
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Arm
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 100
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 70
    KBG: 72
    Angle: 75​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 16
    BKB: 70
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 70​

    Second Set of Hitboxes
    Shoulder
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 15
    KBG: 100
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Arm
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 100
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 70
    KBG: 72
    Angle: 75​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 16
    BKB:70
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 75​

    Aerial Moves [AIR]
    Nair
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 6-7, 15-21
    FAF: 50
    Autocancel: 1-5, 25-49
    Landing Lag (Normal/L Cancelled): 15/7
    First Set of Hitboxes
    Shoulder, Arm and Sword
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 100​

    Hip
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 90​

    Second Set of Hitboxes
    All
    Damage: 10
    BKB: 50
    KBG: 80
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Fair
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 4-7
    FAF: 29
    Autocancel: 27-29
    Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 15/7
    Arm and Shoulder
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage:10
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 13
    BKB: 42
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 67​

    Bair
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 7-11
    FAF: 35
    Autocancel: 1-5, 32-34
    Turnaround: 32
    Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 24/12
    Shoulder
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 10
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Arm
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 25
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage:10
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 13
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Uair
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 5-8
    FAF: 44
    Autocancel: 1-4, 27-43
    Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 15/7
    Shoulder
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 18
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 80​

    Arm
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 80​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage:10
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 80​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 13
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 70
    Angle90​

    Dair
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 6-9
    FAF: 60
    Autocancel: 1-4, 49-59
    Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 25/12
    Shoulder
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Arm
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 70
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage:10
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 80​

    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
    Damage: 10
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 650 (290% Spike)​

    Special Moves [SPC]
    Neutral B
    Note that for certain attributes, there are four values. This is because Neutral B charges in 4 stages (uncharged -> stage 1 -> stage 2 -> Fully charged). The numbers correspond to the value in each state.
    [​IMG]
    Start up: 12
    Hitbox Active: 5-10
    FAF: 33
    Block Advantage: -22 / -20 / -17 / -13
    Hip
    Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
    BKB: 34 / 34 / 34 / 34
    KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
    Shield Damage: 30 / 30 / 30 / 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​

    Arm
    Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
    BKB: 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
    KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
    Shield Damage: 30 / 30 / 30 / 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
    BKB: 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
    KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
    Shield Damage: 38 / 38 / 38 / 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sweetspot
    Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
    BKB: 40 / 40 / 40 / 40
    KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
    Shield Damage: 38 / 38 / 38 / 60
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​

    Side B (First Hit).
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 6-8
    FAF: 30
    Link to next Side B: 7-26
    Block Advantage: -20
    Shoulder
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 55
    KBG: 25
    Angle: 76
    Does not Clang​

    Arm
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 55
    KBG: 25
    Angle: 80
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 55
    KBG: 25
    Angle: 85
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sweetspot
    Damage: 4
    BKB: 55
    KBG: 25
    Angle: 96
    Does not Clang​

    Side B (Up-2)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 11-14
    FAF: 40
    Link to next Side B: 15-31
    Block Advantage: -25
    Shoulder
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 85
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 79
    Does not Clang​

    Arm
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 70
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 85
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 30
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 90
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sweetspot
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 60
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 90
    Does not Clang​


    Side B (Down-2)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 13-15
    FAF: 40
    Link to next Side B: 15-32
    Block Advantage: -23
    Shoulder
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 16
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 50
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​

    Arm
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 16
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 70
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 16
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 105
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​

    Sword Sweetspot
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 16
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 80
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​


    Side B (Up-3)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 12-16
    FAF: 47
    Link to next Side B: 16-37
    Block Advantage: -30
    All
    Damage: 5
    BKB: 16
    KBG: 68
    Angle: 80
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​


    Side B (Side-3)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 10-13
    FAF: 47
    Link to next Side B: 14-36
    Block Advantage: -30
    All*
    Damage: 9
    WKB: 0
    KBG: 176
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Shield Damage: 1


    Side B (Down-3)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 14-17
    FAF: 43
    Link to next Side B: 17-24
    Block Advantage: -22
    All
    Damage: 11
    BKB: 50
    KBG: 107
    Angle: 270
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​


    Side B (Up-4)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 20-25
    FAF: 51
    Block Advantage: -24
    All
    Damage: 9
    BKB: 40
    KBG: 141
    Angle: 80
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​


    Side B (Side-4)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 22-25
    FAF: 51
    Block Advantage: -21
    All
    Damage: 13
    BKB: 15
    KBG: 128
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Shield Damage: 2
    Does not Clang​


    Side B (Down-4)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 12-14, 18-20, 24-26, 30-32, 36-37
    FAF: 61
    Block Advantage: -21
    First 4 sets of Hitboxes
    Arm & Shoulder
    Damage: 3
    BKB: 2
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 80
    Does not Clang​
    Sword Hitboxes

    Damage: 3
    BKB: 2
    KBG: 40
    Angle: 80
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​

    Final Set of Hitboxes
    Arm & Shoulder
    Damage: 3
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 175
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​
    Sword Hitboxes

    Damage: 3
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 175
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Shield Damage: 1
    Does not Clang​

    Up B
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 5-6, 6-11
    Intangible: 5
    FAF: 40
    Ledge grab allowable from: 12
    Landing Lag: 34
    First set of Hitboxes
    Hip & Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 10
    BKB: 60
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 74
    Does not Clang​
    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)

    Damage: 13
    BKB: 80
    KBG: 70
    Angle: 70
    Does not Clang​

    Final Set of Hitboxes
    Hip
    Damage: 6
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 90
    Angle: 74
    Does not Clang​
    Sword Sourspot
    Damage: 7
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 90
    Angle: 74
    Does not Clang​
    Sword Sweetspot (Tip)

    Damage: 7
    BKB: 20
    KBG: 90
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​

    Down B (Waiting Part)
    [​IMG]
    FAF: 60
    Counterable Frames: 5-29
    Intangible: 5-6

    Down B (Attacking Part)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 5-9
    FAF: 37
    Intangibile: 1-8
    Block Advantage: -13
    ALL
    Damage: 7
    BKB: 90
    KBG: 35
    Angle: Sakurai Angle
    Does not Clang​

    Grabs [GRB]

    Standing Grab
    [​IMG]
    Grab Active: 7-8
    FAF: 31

    Dash Grab
    [​IMG]
    Grab Active: 9-10
    FAF: 40

    Pivot Grab
    [​IMG]
    Grab Active: 9-10
    FAF: 36

    Pummel
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 6-9
    FAF: 27
    All*
    Damage: 3
    WKB: 30
    KBG: 100
    Angle: 80
    Does not Clang​

    Dodges and Rolls [DGD]
    Spot Dodge
    FAF: 28
    Intangible: 2-18

    Forward Roll
    FAF: 32
    Intangible: 4-19

    Backward Roll
    FAF: 32
    Intangible: 4-19

    Get Up Moves [GUP]
    Stand (Stomach and Back)
    Intangible: 1-21
    FAF: 30

    Roll Forward (Stomach)
    Intangible: 1-19
    FAF: 36

    Roll Forward (Back)
    Intangible: 6-19
    FAF: 36

    Roll Backward (Stomach)
    Intangible: 1-19
    FAF: 36

    Roll Backward (Back)
    Intangible: 1-19
    FAF: 36

    Get Up Attack (Stomach)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 22-23, 27-28
    Intangible: 1-28
    FAF: 50
    Block Advantage: -20
    All
    Damage: 6
    Shield Damage: 1
    BKB: 80
    KBG: 50
    Clang: False​

    Get Up Attack (Back)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 20-23, 30-31
    Intangible: 1-31
    FAF: 55
    Block Advantage: -20
    All
    Damage: 6
    Shield Damage: 1
    BKB: 80
    KBG: 50
    Clang: False​

    Ledge Moves [LDG]
    Ledge Attack (<100%)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 24-27
    Intangible: 1-20
    FAF: 55
    Block Advantage: -25
    Ledge Occupancy: 1-42
    Arm
    Damage: 6
    Shield Damage: 1
    BKB: 70
    Knockback Growth: 50
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    All Sword Hitboxes
    Damage: 8
    Shield Damage: 1
    Base Knockback: 70
    Knockback Growth: 50
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Ledge Attack (100%+)
    [​IMG]
    Hitbox Active: 44-47
    Intangible: 1-34
    FAF: 69
    Block Advantage: -18
    Ledge Occupancy: 1-50
    Arm
    Damage: 6
    Shield Damage: 1
    BKB: 70
    Knockback Growth: 50
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    All Sword Hitboxes
    Damage: 8
    Shield Damage: 1
    Base Knockback: 70
    Knockback Growth: 50
    Angle: Sakurai Angle​

    Stand (<100%)
    Intangible: 1-30
    FAF: 33
    Ledge Occupancy: 1-32

    Stand (100%+)
    Intangible: 1-55
    FAF: 59
    Ledge Occupancy: 1-44

    Ledge Roll (<100%)
    Intangibile: 1-38
    FAF: 50
    Ledge Occupancy: 1-40

    Ledge Roll (100%+)
    Intangibile: 1-56
    FAF: 79
    Ledge Occupancy: 1-54

    Techs[TCH]
    Standing Tech
    Intangible: 1-20
    FAF: 27

    Techroll (Forward and Back)
    Intangible: 1-20
    FAF: 41
     
    #1 UMR | donmk, May 27, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  2. Ralph Cecil

    Ralph Cecil
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Champion

    Joined:
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    Somewhere in KY QQQQQQQQQQ
    3DS FC:
    4098-4850-8033
    NNID:
    RalphCecil
    I'm not a Melee player, so getting to see the numbers behind his moves really helps explain a lot and give me some ideas. Thanks! :D
     
  3. Sartron

    Sartron
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    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
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    291
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    Central Florida
    The differing styles in writing frame threads for PM has been so weird so far. Interesting, but weird.
    Good job with this. I do have a question though, although it may be quite broad or difficult to answer, but is PM Marth an accurate replica of Melee Marth? Were there drastic differences?
     
    SpiderMad likes this.
  4. UMR | donmk

    UMR | donmk
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    RIP PM

    • Premium
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    As far as the individual moves go, there are very few differences. The main two that I picked up were that Down Air has less lag and Side B moves have slightly earlier link frames. The real difference in PM is that Marth has a few new tricks such as pivot grab (which I don't like as a name because it is hard to distinguish from a normal grab done out of a pivot). Unfortunately, I couldn't find a Melee thread with knockback / damage data so I can't really compare those.

    You'll find that the differing styles have a lot to do with the different data that is present. A lot of the really clean styles look really nice if you don't have animations. I initially tried to use a table format, but including animations means that you have to split up the data into many different sections. I prefer to keep all the data on each move together, but it really is just personal preference. The cost of doing so is the sprawling post you see above.

    Also, I may have been influenced by the style of the Melee Marth frame data thread which I have been to many times.
     
  5. Chesstiger2612

    Chesstiger2612
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    Smash Lord

    Joined:
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    Thank you very much for making this. I think there are a few little differences from Melee (just from watching both gifs, please correct me if I'm wrong):
    - If my impression is correct, the backwards hitbox on the second hit of nair lasts longer in Melee
    - The second-most outward hitbox of f-smash is a bit more outward causing less tippers (there was a GimR match once at Xanadu where he didn't get a tipper that clearly looked like it)
    - Pummel is 27 frames instead of 26
    - Also a few positive things, Marths dair hitbox goes a little bit further in PM at the end of the hitbox on the outer side dued to his sword not being angled down that much
    - Dash grab doesn't grab as much behind but its forward range is better now (this has effect in real situations because dash grab is more often better than JC in PM than in Melee)
    - Standing grab range also slightly higher (character model differences could be distracting me though)
    - Counter doesn't have that little part of Marths body not covered
    I know for sure that Marths up-smash hitbox got bigger so thats a change for sure.

    By the way are you sure about the down-b aka counter part?
    Melee thread says invicible from 1-16, and I can't imagine it being nerfed too frame 5-6 intangibility...
     
    SpiderMad likes this.
  6. UMR | donmk

    UMR | donmk
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    RIP PM

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    I can't comment too much on hitbox size, other than to say that I feel like the standing grab does have a larger range, which is especially noticeable when you are chain grabbing species on FD.

    Counter works through flags in PM, which means that the move needs to connect with a hurt box to trigger. This means no little bit left out, but I think there's less horizontal area where counter will trigger.

    Lastly, I did check counter a couple of time (and I believe Aerodrome checked it once as well) and am confident it is correct. Could you tell me where you got the melee numbers from?

    Edit: found the numbers staring me in the face. I blame being on a phone...

    My interpretation is that the counter is invincible 1-16 on activation (that is while actually throwing out the hitboxes). This means it is nerfed to 1-8 in PM. However, there are a couple of other oddities in counter which mean I will take another look in the morning just to be safe.
     
    #6 UMR | donmk, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
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  7. Chesstiger2612

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    OK thank you
     
  8. standardtoaster

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    The melee hitbox data thread and data from superdoodleman are incorrect because he counted hitlag on the counter.

    1. I'm very sure nair lasts the same amount of time as melee but I will double check.
    2. I am 99% sure that fsmash matches hitbox positions exactly. Halo, our animator who did all anims for mewtwo, painstakingly matched every one of marth's attacks sans dancing blade I think
    3. I'll look into this. thanks
    4. See point 2
    5. definitely not intended, lol. the range on dash grab is pretty ridiculous atm :p
    6. Standing grab range was ported directly from melee and matches 100%
    7. Not sure how you'd be able to test that since we can't visualize the counter area in brawlbox :/
     
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  9. UMR | donmk

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    OK, so I rechecked everything, and I am 100% sure that counter data is accurate. Take from that what you will.

    Also, @standardtoaster, a few points that might help clear things up

    1. Nair matches melee exactly in terms of numbers. There was a typo in the FAF in my data that I have fixed this morning.
    2. Can't comment on hitbox size since I don't know how to look at that in Melee
    3. Pummel has its FAF on frame 27, which means you can act ON frame 27. This gives the move a duration of 26 frames, which matches Melee.
    4. See point 2
    5. You seem to have covered this nicely.
    6. Maybe its the way brawl handles grabs, or maybe its the slightly easier execution, but it seems I can grab spacies from a long way away compared to Melee. I know this is really non-technical, but if you could explain a reason, or even a reason that it could feel like this, I'd really appreciate it.
    7. You could in theory test this using frame advance, but it would require patience the likes of which I dont have.

    I'd just like to re-emphasise to anyone comparing this data to Melee, that FAF is the frame you can act on. The duration of the move is effectively FAF-1.
     
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  10. KuroganeHammer

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    I can confirm what standardtoaster and don_metaknight are saying as correct. I know that might be overkill, but yeah. :>
     
  11. Chesstiger2612

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    @don_metaknight
    Do you have the ledge occupation vaules for the [LDG] moves?

    Also (directed at everyone) what are the criteria when you will have to choose a [GUP] Back and when a [GUP] Stomach option?
     
  12. UMR | donmk

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    I don't have them recorded, and I probably won't have the time to find them until after my exams are done. If you want, ask @Aerodrome really nicely and he might do them.

    Also, stomach and back get up attacks depend on whether you land on your stomach or on your back. That means that the move you can do is determined the moment you hit the ground.
     
  13. Chesstiger2612

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    Is this stomach/back thing already dependent on the hitstun/tumble animation before or just on your horizontal momentum?
     
  14. UMR | donmk

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    I believe it is only dependent on your animation right before you hit the ground. I believe that in tumble, you have the chance to land on either your stomach or your back, depending on your orientation when you hit the ground.

    Also, in my exam procrastination, I did end up finding the ledge occupancy times. I'll update the OP, but I'll post them here as well

    <100% Attack: 1-42
    <100% Stand: 1-32
    <100% Roll: 1-40

    100%+ Attack: 1-50
    100%+ Stand: 1-44
    100%+ Roll: 1-54

    Side note, these are from brawlbox and not actually tested in game, but I believe them to be accurate.
     
  15. BIGSmeez

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    Vary useful info!! Thanks everybody!
     
  16. shairn

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    Any chance to get the data for ledge jumps?
     
  17. KuroganeHammer

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    What data are you looking for.
     
  18. shairn

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    Actually just the first actionable frame.
     
  19. KuroganeHammer

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    I will highly consider it when I get home. If I forget please tag me.
     
  20. Chesstiger2612

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    @Aerodrome
    *reminder*
    Also, if you could search for the ledge occupancy frames too that would be really nice.

    EDIT: Oops they got added already sorry :D
     
    #20 Chesstiger2612, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
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  21. KuroganeHammer

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    Cliff Jump Quick Intangibility: 1-11
    FAF: 12

    Cliff Jump Slow Intangibility: 1-21
    FAF 22
     
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  22. DrinkingFood

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    @Aerodrome Samus needs a frame data thread, and I know there are a lot of samus mains who would be appreciative.
     
  23. KuroganeHammer

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    She was on my radar until I stopped doing data.

    World of Warcraft been taking a lot of my time and I have single player games I want to finish...

    But we will see.
     
  24. Frobot

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    Noice... this is really gonna help me
     
  25. EmLeingod

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    that dash grab though...
     
  26. UMR | donmk

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    So with PM 3.5 coming out, Marth appears to have had a few changes, mainly in terms of his grabs. To be specific, the following (Taken from PM website):

    Dash grab range reduced.
    Turn grab's innermost hit box has been removed, removing grabs from behind Marth's back.
    Jab 2 active frames 4-9

    There are some global changes that may also impact him, such as the changes to get up attacks. The upshot is that this thread is now outdated, and as soon an I can get 3.5 to download (and after I mess around with it a bit) I will recheck the data and update the original post. Original Post has been updated with the new data.

    EDIT: If you want to see the dash grab length changes, they're below.

    [Collapse="Dash Grab Comparison"]
    3.02 Dash Grab:
    [​IMG]
    3.5 Dash Grab:
    [​IMG]
    [/Collapse]
     
    #26 UMR | donmk, Nov 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  27. QuantumKiller

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    That finger range..... Thanks for the images even though we now have debug mode ;)
     
  28. Chesstiger2612

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    So JC grab is strictly dominant over dash grab now :)
     
  29. UMR | donmk

    UMR | donmk
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    I'll keep this thread up to date with each release, since some of the numbers are not immediately observable from debug mode unless you know what to look for. This is especially true of things like knockback. And as long as I'm going to keep the numbers up to date, I may as well do the images.
     
  30. Hydrargyrum

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    Where's the data for Side B (Side-2)? I don't see it..
     
  31. UMR | donmk

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    There are only two variants of the second hit of side B. The one that most people use is side B down, which will occur if you hold to the side during the second hit. The reason they are termed Up-2 and Down-2 is because that's what they're called by the moveset file (well technically they're called hi-2 and low-2).

    tl;dr side B side-2 doesn't actually exist, and the game will use down-2 unless you use an upwards input.
     
  32. Hydrargyrum

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    Oh, well damn. TIL.
     
  33. SpiderMad

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    How was the second jab changed? I never understood when they mentioned that in the change list "Jab 2 active frames..", aren't they suppose to give me 3.02's Jab 2 active frames?

    Wait, there was a global change to Get-up attacks?

    And do you happen to have an opinion on 3.02 to 3.5's sword sound effect changes? Primarily his aerials; I seem to think they're worse sounding.

    And just for thought, what Get-up attack (Stomach or Back) would you personally prefer to be performed in-game (possibly for different situations?)? And is Block advantage for them concerning the 2nd swipe hitboxes or?
     
    #33 SpiderMad, Jan 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  34. UMR | donmk

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    Let's see if I can answer everything here.

    The jab changes mean the second hit of jab comes out one frame earlier than it did in 3.0.

    I apologise if this confused people, but it turns out I misread the change list. I had another look just now, and it turns out that the actual change is to get up attacks after tripping. After looking at my data, I now realise that I don't actually have that information at all (I assumed it was the same as a normal get up attack). I'll work on getting it up, but my main computer which I used to do the gifs is currently unavailable, so it may take me a little while.

    As for sword sfx, well in 3.0 I felt the need to change them but I don't feel that need in 3.5. Not sure if it's because they're better or because I got lazier.

    Since you can't really choose a get up attack (it depends on how you land) this question is pretty moot. As a thought though, stomach has 5 frames less duration, so maybe that. Also, it hits in front of Marth first, which is generally where you want to be hitting in most situations. To be honest, they aren't really very good at all.

    As for the frame advantage on get up, @Aerodrome did those calculations, so I'd be tempted to ask him. That being said, I can retest them and let you know, but it may take me a little while. Real life has a habit of eating all my spare time.
     
  35. Chesstiger2612

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    I agree with @SpiderMad , it seems they merely replaced Brawl with Melee SFX and for some moves it works fine but for some it just sounds like a worse sound quality.
     
  36. KuroganeHammer

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    iirc the block advantage is probably for the second hit

    also brawl marth sounds are awesome
     
  37. UMR | donmk

    UMR | donmk
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    So the full release of 3.6 came out, the only thing this changes is the roll dodge.

    Forward Roll has its FAF at 32 now, rather than 36.

    Backward Roll has its FAF at 32 (from 36), and invulnerability frames are now 4-19 (from 4-23)

    I will update the main post to reflect this
     

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