Marth 1.1.1 Patch Changes

[Quickhero]

I've noticed less lag on landing uair and nair.

Placebo?

It's placebo, they have the same lag as they had in 1.10. The only thing that's changed is shieldbreaker because for some stupid reason that move had to be nerfed. As if shield breaking wasn't hard enough.

 

[Newbarktown]

Quickhero So dumb. Shield is so strong in this game and now we have less options to punish. I'd be fine with shieldbreaker nerf if I could combo off dthrow beyond 0%, like Roy. But no, our throws do 3-4% and can only be used for stage position. I think this is a bigger nerf than people think

 

[Bribery]

Apparently there was a change to shield stun so that may explain why Shield Breaker and other shield damage moves were nerfed.
http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/page-9#post-20220175

 

[Ako.]

Even though Marth got nerfed, I will still be loyal to him no matter what. In SF4 when chun-li got nerfed and was at her worse in arcade edition, i still mained her. Im all about character loyalty.

 

[Ryuki of Spiral Rhapsody]

i mean, not only does it pain me to see THIS thread AFTER the changes roundup in the competitive forum, but i'm already in hell since anyone can perfect shield... shield breaker.

i mean, christ, might as well nerf the move, i'm not even surprised

but wow, literally nothing else for our Falchions. all i wanted for marth was for him to have a gun be able to capitalize off of throws a bit more. I get it, he's all about the spacing and getting the tipper down; it's supposed to be fencing-esque. but wow the best thing i can do is down throw, wait for air dodge, and then uair or bair just like everyone else.

Apparently there was a change to shield stun so that may explain why Shield Breaker and other shield damage moves were nerfed.
http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/page-9#post-20220175

interesting.

 

[DariusM27]

Oh and btw, According to the main smashboards 1.1.1 patch notes

• Shield damage on tech get up attack decreased across the cast 10 → 8
• Shield stun mechanics altered: formula assumed: [(damage / 1.8)+3] over (damage/2.56) [?]
• Invincibility on back roll and air dodges reduced by 1
  

Which is another HARD HARD HARD NERF for Marth. Marth's Sh air dodge, to nair 1, to FSMASH was one really reliable kill setup. It has just become more unsafe.

Blam this game.

I only wonder if the altered shield stun mechanics will somehow magically freaking balance the game perfectly all around.

 

[Murlough]

Jeez.... what's the matter with those people at Sakurai's team???? So out of everything they could do with Marth they nerf ShieldBreaker?
It was already so frustrating how many times I could hit shields with SB but always seams I needed to charge a split of a second longer because the shields resist. Now the move will be useless unless you really take the time to charge.

Meanwhile Mewtwo keeps getting those cheap "shield breaks" 10 out of 10 with Disable... fair.

To be fair Marth is not nearly as crap as Mewtwo. Nothing happened to Mewtwo this patch either.

 

[Bribery]

So doesn't the shield stun change make Marth's moves safer on shield? If that's the case, I'll gladly take a minor Shield Breaker nerf Or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

How do Marth's hitlag modifiers change the numbers?

 

[Newbarktown]

Someone in the patch thread did a calc, and it showed that a 10% attack will grant 8 frames of shieldstun.

Rev up those tipper fairs.

Also shield breaker wasn't quite nerfed. I believe the new shield properties even it out, otherwise uncharged SB+shieldstun would pop shields instantly (which is why DK got the nerf too).

 

[Bribery]

So it looks like Marth was actually buffed this patch then. Shieldbreaker is essentially the same as before with the shieldstun changes. Meanwhile his moves are safer on shield. Tipper Fair/Dtilt gained about +5 frames of shieldstun. Tipper Fsmash probably gained more.

I wonder how his hitlag modifiers interact with these changes. Hopefully it's in a way that's beneficial to Marth

 

[Newbarktown]

This will help him more than most I'd assume. This patch looks like it's going to reward good movement and proper spacing more than ever, and Marth has been doing that for years.

 

[Cactusblah]

Is it possible now to chain an attack on shield into a shieldbreaker? What is Marth's strongest attack with the least endlag to try this with?

How significant is this improvement for tipper fair and dancing blade on shield? What about nair into grab?

 

[Husk94]

is fast fall fair safe on sheild now? or any other aerials

 

[Honor]

Nair to Shieldbreaker is what makes the most sense to me. I'll test when I get home from work.

 

[Illuminado]

Love how the first thing someone thought in here in their despondency was "OMG, SHIELD STUN > = MORE NERFS TO MARTH". Actually, its really beneficial. Perfectly spaced tippers will be far more safe on shield. It may in some cases even negate someone being able to hard punish from shield entirely if you're spaced properly (unless they perfect shield). As a consequence, aerial approaches with slight timing mixups (as to when you throw them) should work a lot better as in some cases the worst punish they may be able to administer is a grab, which, if you're tipping won't be in range. Now we just need to find a reliable on shield combo into shield breaker.

 

[Bribery]

Also, shields being less safe means grabs are slightly less valuable. So Marth having crappy throws isn't as detrimental as it was before

 

[A_Kae]

First post has been updated with the confirmed changes.

 

[Ryuki of Spiral Rhapsody]

Huh. The more you know. It's not a nerf after all.

My bad. Scrub mentality took over when the first thing I saw in the change list was "Shield Breaker nerfed"

 

[DariusM27]

It seems like a hard nerf to me. I don't see how the changes benefit marth in any perceptible way, and we lost a way to make people fear using shield on us.

Question though, does our shieldbreaker cause them to have significantly more shield stun now, is that it? And if so, does that actually benefit us?

 

[Cactusblah]

It seems like a hard nerf to me. I don't see how the changes benefit marth in any perceptible way, and we lost a way to make people fear using shield on us.

Question though, does our shieldbreaker cause them to have significantly more shield stun now, is that it? And if so, does that actually benefit us?

Shieldbreaker itself is the same as before or better because they are forced to hold shield for ~5 more frames.

Edit: It's actually strictly better because it's safer to use now.

 

[DariusM27]

Shieldbreaker itself is the same as before or better because they are forced to hold shield for ~5 more frames.

Well that is interesting, I'll check it out.

 

[A_Kae]

It seems like a hard nerf to me. I don't see how the changes benefit marth in any perceptible way, and we lost a way to make people fear using shield on us.

Question though, does our shieldbreaker cause them to have significantly more shield stun now, is that it? And if so, does that actually benefit us?

SB's shieldstun on a tipper should be 9 frames now, up from 3. Assuming that the rate of degeneration is the same as it was before (7.7 per second, according to this: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Shield), SB is weaker than it was before, but safer on shield.

Edit: Should be 8 frames now, not 9.

 

[BozzMac]

Guy's the only change to Marth was reduced shield damage on shield breaker, but this change was actually needed. Shield stun was dramatically increased, going from non existent to more than Melee. If Marth's old shield breaker was still in we'd have a one hit shield break option, which would make our character broken. All in all we should be talking about what moves are now safe on shield. Dtilt, Nair, and tipper fsmash are all safe I heard. Fair maybe? I'm gonna go check.

 

[Cactusblah]

Is a charged shieldbreaker weaker too or only uncharged? If charged is exactly the same amount of shield damage, it will be easier to break shields with.

 

[A_Kae]

Is a charged shieldbreaker weaker too or only uncharged? If charged is exactly the same amount of shield damage, it will be easier to break shields with.

Charged is the same as before.

 

[Cactusblah]

Charged is the same as before.

So a charged shieldbreaker of any amount will break a shield easier now, because the opponent is forced to shield for ~5 more frames. Am I correct?

 

[A_Kae]

So a charged shieldbreaker of any amount will break a shield easier now, because the opponent is forced to shield for ~5 more frames. Am I correct?

Only fully charged is the same. SB is going to take a little longer charging to break shields now.

 

[Ryoku]

Lol the amount of despair in this thread before the shield stun increase was mentioned

Anyways, this patch is a significant buff to Marth overall. Tippers matter more now, increasing shield stun even more than a standard hit, hopefully leading to more shield pressuring and follow ups (I haven't crunched the frame data numbers yet). As a result, spacing matters even more now.

Heh, it'll be even clearer to differentiate the good Marths from the bad.

 

[Lashurn]

hum, interesting how that this patch is bigger than we thought.

well, enough imaging how long it takes to act from shieild now, it's time to go on For Salt.

 

[DariusM27]

Nah, it's still a nerf. You will no longer break shields when you could before. You will not find any move that grants enough shield stun that will allow you to follow up with shieldbreaker, unless you are playing a FG noob. We have no combos into shieldbreaker. Sorry folks. We got nerfed.

 

[cerealkiller]

For me it's still a nerf. People are already cheering because due to shield mechanics changes it is safer on shield but it still WILL break shields less efficiently. The move is safer on shields, but when it actually hits won't do as good. How is it a buff?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I had hoped the new shield-stun would make a decently spaced DB2 safer (When they roll behind), but the damage on it is so garbagey that I don't think it's improved, still gotta stop at first hit on DB pressure.

 

[Lashurn]

I wonder if this also means lucario greatly benefits from it too.

 

[SilverForUbers]

Marth's Shield Breaker was only "nerfed" because of the Shield changes. While it is harder to break shields now, it's still a move that will pressure your opponent to not shield because it still does a lot of shield damage. When you also consider the fact that it is now safer on shield, I personally find it to be a fine exchange. Shield Breaker would be broken if it still had its old shield damage because of the shield change.

Marth was also indirectly buffed by the shield change since his tippers are now safer on shield, rewarding you for spacing and making his lag harder to punish. I don't really find this to be a nerf more than a buff or something to complain about.

 

[Cactusblah]

The opponent is forced to hold shield for 5 more frames now. They're draining their own shield for 5 frames after you shieldbreaker them. It should make up for 5 less shield damage.

 

[DariusM27]

Marth's Shield Breaker was only "nerfed" because of the Shield changes. While it is harder to break shields now, it's still a move that will pressure your opponent to not shield because it still does a lot of shield damage. When you also consider the fact that it is now safer on shield, I personally find it to be a fine exchange. Shield Breaker would be broken if it still had its old shield damage because of the shield change.

Marth was also indirectly buffed by the shield change since his tippers are now safer on shield, rewarding you for spacing and making his lag harder to punish. I don't really find this to be a nerf more than a buff or something to complain about.

That is probably the best explanation I've seen. So basically, while shieldbreaker won't break as reliably, it is now safer to use more often, because unless they roll or spotdodge, it will either hit them or hit their shield, which applies safe pressure. Yeah, fair point I guess.

 

[DariusM27]

So tipper nair will probably be one of our best tools against shields, eh?

Ah, I was going to copypaste this question into my previous comment, but I don't know how to delete comments on this website. Only edit. Sorry.

 

[Didier337]

New shield mechanics would have made marth/lucina's SB (as well as DK's Side Special) pretty broken so I think the minor nerf was to prevent people from just instantly breaking shields with no charge.

If it wasn't nerf,I would be full sprinting into SB(which gives marth a tiny bit of momentum),what would they do?Shield it?

 

[Lashurn]

Wow, people are REALLY underestimating the shield brakers now. .__. I broke about 4 shields.

 

[Lashurn]

Also i think the spike hitbox on Dair is bigger, i spiked bowser directly under me, and i mean he was /directly/ under me.