Mario Questions

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Hey, I'm a fox main but I have the most fun playing mario (he's dope). I have a couple questions about him.

1. How to use his dair? This move feels so jank, probably because it feels like it has tons of landing lag. Anyway, where does this move fit into combos? And is it good to use it when your trying to get back onto the ground?

2. Waveland Bair vs SHFFL Bair. Man mario's waveland bair feels so slick. Obviously both techniques have a time and place but in general which is better when spacing and pressuring your opponent?

3. Chain Grabs. Which members of the cast does Marios chain grab work on? And at what percents and with which grabs (I know both his dthrow and uthrow can chain).

4. Nair Approach. When you go in with a nair on your opponents shield, is it best to follow up with the jab+grab (does that even work a lot on shield? Dpes it work if you use fair instead of nair?) or is it better to land behind them turn around and grab? Should I even be using to Nair to approach or should I focus more on using his bair?

5. Mash Strats. Doc Mario and Luigi all have exhausting recoveries which require you to MASH and to use every single special move in their arsenal to recover. I've been practicing mario's tornado on the FoD top platform and I'm almost there but I have not made it yet. Anybody have any good ways to mash or practice mashing?


Thanks a ton to anyone who responds

 

[Britex]

1: Dair isn't really meant to be shuffled like an Uair; do full hop dair to stuff people's aerials and approach. If it lands (in the air) and they don't perfect sdi away, you can pretty much always get another aerials, Uair/reverse Bair for comboes, Nair can be used for edgeguard set-ups or kill. On the ground, if you manage to trigger's dair's little shockwave thing (not exactly sure how) it can be used for comboes.

2: Waveland Bair (Shabawd) allows you to have smoother movement and can be used for mindgames. You can for example do retreating bairs and then waveland at the end of one and surprise your opponent; get a grab or a f-smash. SHFFL bairs can be used in a wall of pain-esque manner; and of course for comboes.

3: Mario honestly has a tons of chaingrabs vs many members of the cast. Some can only be chain throwed by up throw, others only by down throw, some by boths, but its oftenly dependent on percentage. Here's a small list (not exhaustive) of characters that mario can chain grab: Fox, Falco, Falcon, Ganondorf, Sheik, Pikachu, Pichu, Climbers (not sure), Link (not sure). Generally, you use up throw at low percent and down throw at high percent. Some characters, like Ganon, can be chaingrabbed for pretty much forever.

4: If there's one thing I learned recently, is that you don't want to approach too much with Mario. His range is really poor and it's not that hard to punish Mario's approaching. You really want to move around a lot and wait for an opening. When you do approach however, Mario's Jab is one of the best in the game; it's honestly Godlike. All the options associated with it are good and have their uses. Jab-Jab-Jab, Jab-Jab-Dsmash, Jab-Grab, Jab-Fsmash (Mindgames), Jab-Ftilt, etc. When my opponent is shielding, I often delay my jabs to mix it up. Regarding fair, I like to use it like falcon's stomp. If you see an opening, go for it, it can start comboes pretty effectively; I personally like to use it as a techchasing tool.

5: Can't really help you with this, I'm still training myself. I used to maintain my stick downward while ascending, and now that I've stopped doing that I've had more success with it. When using Down-B for recovering, don't always use it near the ledge. Sometime you should use it far away from the stage to gain height and have better chances at recovering. A Rookie does this a lot, you'll notice it if you watch some of his videos.

 

[DerfMidWest]

dair is good on shields or for stopping low approaches. you have to rise with it and retreat.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

I agree, his jab is amazing and it's one of the main reasons I like Mario more than Doc. ty for the tips

 

[groovy]

1: Mario's dair does pretty well when you're coming from above and going for an utilt (obviously L-cancel the dair) but that's if you're going from above to the ground. On floaties it doesn't exactly work too well but if you'll trying to get back to a neutral position this could be somewhat safe. You can also dair into someone and up B (L cancel dair obviously) on yoshi's under the center platform (that's if you care about being safe after the up B) But often times I go for dair to up B just for damage if I use a dair and have a stock to spare. Hopefully those are some decent combos for you.

2: N/A

3: Britex already got most of the people you need to know as to who you are able to chain grab but I think a very important one he forgot to mention was Marth (low percentage) Not exactly sure how long you can go for that but it works very well, just really hard to get a grab on Marth or even get near Marth with Mario

4: I feel Britex has a point with Mario being very poor with approaching due to range, but if you really want to approach people with a nair, be sure you keep in mind of their percentage and amount of knockback it'll carry if you do manage to hit em with a nair at that percentage. Low percentage could be nair L cancel jab jab jab or you could utilt or downsmash, which ever you feel most comfortable with! Higher percentage I feel a nair could knock them farther to not really lead to anything.

5: I've noticed that it eventually (obviously) has a peak as to how high it can get. I never really got around to landing the edge but if you coming from above and can get the mash to reach its peak, it could be good to stall anyway to get an idea as to what you do, though really depends on how well you can mash and whether or not you are at a good position to stall in air with that. But I have seen some crazy things with it.

I hope some of this can help you.

EDIT: Fixed lots of typos since I rushed this in class woop

 

[DerfMidWest]

yeah jab is your best move, just sayin'

 

[a rookie]

Hey, I'm a fox main but I have the most fun playing mario (he's dope). I have a couple questions about him.

1. How to use his dair? This move feels so jank, probably because it feels like it has tons of landing lag. Anyway, where does this move fit into combos? And is it good to use it when your trying to get back onto the ground?

2. Waveland Bair vs SHFFL Bair. Man mario's waveland bair feels so slick. Obviously both techniques have a time and place but in general which is better when spacing and pressuring your opponent?

3. Chain Grabs. Which members of the cast does Marios chain grab work on? And at what percents and with which grabs (I know both his dthrow and uthrow can chain).

4. Nair Approach. When you go in with a nair on your opponents shield, is it best to follow up with the jab+grab (does that even work a lot on shield? Dpes it work if you use fair instead of nair?) or is it better to land behind them turn around and grab? Should I even be using to Nair to approach or should I focus more on using his bair?

5. Mash Strats. Doc Mario and Luigi all have exhausting recoveries which require you to MASH and to use every single special move in their arsenal to recover. I've been practicing mario's tornado on the FoD top platform and I'm almost there but I have not made it yet. Anybody have any good ways to mash or practice mashing?


Thanks a ton to anyone who responds

Hi, I'm A Rookie (: Nice to meet someone trying to try out Mario. He's a fun character.

1. Full Hop Dair:
Use your dair to stuff a lot of aerials(most likely wanna start the dair before their aerial comes out so it doesn't trade), and it's also just a very good wall. Think of it as a mobile Peach dsmash since it does suck in the opponent if they get to close to it. And if you do end up hitting them w/ dair, you can follow up w/ a bair/upair/nair.

Short Hop Dair:
Use this one to shield poke/bait grabs(at certain heights). Also can be used to edgeguard Falcon/Spacies into dsmash(since the last hit of dair that sends them outward has a set knockback)

2. Waveland bairs:
can be used when they're shielding to bait out grabs and punish them or you can use them as a defensive technique as well to get away from the opponent.

SHFFL bairs:
use these to bait grabs as well. Bair on a shield(hit their shield midway to low, NOT HIGH since you can get shield grabbed) then DD and react to your opponent if they grab, to grab their grab. Lol. You can also use it as a shield pressure option. Do a mid - low bair on their shield, turn around jab/dsmash/grab? The possibilities are endless at that point.

3. Chain Throws throwing upward: Fox/Falco/Falcon.

Chain Throws throwing downward: Sheik/Roy/Link/Fox&Falco&Falcon(around 130%)/Young Link/Pikachu/Pichu(Maybe, not sure)

The percentages vary. But Sheik and Pikachu get out the earliest I think. (Sheik and Pika around 40% or less for sure)

4. Nair is an iffy approach. It gets easily stuffed/DD'ed grabbed. But if you do hit their shield, just sidestep right after and punish them for trying to shield grab you. But I would not recommend to try to cross up, it's way too slow and people CAN punish it out of shield.(Sheik's nair/Falcon's bair, etc.) Nair is good if you're trying to catch them jump out of shield though. Other than that, nair would have to be more of a mix-up than the common approach. A good approach is a fireball/upair/wavedash(use the momentum bair)

5. If you're trying to learn how to mash. Better break out that Mario Party game you have(or are gonna get lol). But I learned from Mario Party/Practicing Melee. In Melee, this is my process to try to get the maximum height:

- Walk of FD w/ a fair
- Use double jump ASAP
- Cape
- Then spam down b like this is the last stock of your tournament life

So practice practice! It really does make perfect. Well the perfect in your eyes. Good luck!

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Awesome, thanks for the tips. Any specific way that you mash? Do you use your thumb or your index? And is vibrating your arm the best way?

 

[a rookie]

Awesome, thanks for the tips. Any specific way that you mash? Do you use your thumb or your index? And is vibrating your arm the best way?

Yes, I actually would think it's easier if you have some kind of muscle. So it wouldn't hurt to work out a little. I use my thumb and flex my arm pretty hard and vibrate it to mash. Nothing special. But you can find your own way. Just be careful where you do your tornadoes though. Only really high up or point blank to the stage, never in between.

 

[BluEG]

Damn, a rookie, you run this forum haha.

Not really sure where to post this but didn't want to start a new thread....

What do you all think of frontal bairs -> waveland? I've been using it as an aggressive approach and just wavelanding into a grab or a downsmash.

 

[a rookie]

Damn, a rookie, you run this forum haha.

Not really sure where to post this but didn't want to start a new thread....

What do you all think of frontal bairs -> waveland? I've been using it as an aggressive approach and just wavelanding into a grab or a downsmash.

I will be here until there's no Mario's left! But yes! I like to use them like that as well. If I hit them w/ bair, I waveland and react to their missed tech w/ a dsmash. If not, I just tech chase them.

 

[JKJ]

Since I've become a competitive player, I always have said that Mario is my favorite character. I don't like Doc, either. I never have. Doc just feels... slower, choppier, I don't know. Mario feels slick, and his combo game is so satisfying. I didn't (and still don't) have the balls to main him, but hes probably my third best character behind my spacies. I routinely surprise people at tournaments by money matching people with Mario and winning. I'm glad that people like a rookie are willing to be the man I'm not and swag all over people with Mario.

Thanks for the interesting insight into your Mario strats, a rookie. Keep being the ultimate swagmaster

 

[BluEG]

ive officially picked up Mario as a secondary to Luigi, he's so damn fun and similar enough that the playstyle makes sense to me. (Luigi is so damn weird) Looking forward to learning more about the character

 

[a rookie]

Since I've become a competitive player, I always have said that Mario is my favorite character. I don't like Doc, either. I never have. Doc just feels... slower, choppier, I don't know. Mario feels slick, and his combo game is so satisfying. I didn't (and still don't) have the balls to main him, but hes probably my third best character behind my spacies. I routinely surprise people at tournaments by money matching people with Mario and winning. I'm glad that people like a rookie are willing to be the man I'm not and swag all over people with Mario.

Thanks for the interesting insight into your Mario strats, a rookie. Keep being the ultimate swagmaster

Doc is I think 26 frames slower than Mario in all of his attacks. That's why he feels slower/heavier. But yup, Mario feels like a graceful angel when you get all the wavelands and such. Thank you man, I'm gonna keep the Mario dream alive! If you ever need to ask anything about Mario, let me know

ive officially picked up Mario as a secondary to Luigi, he's so damn fun and similar enough that the playstyle makes sense to me. (Luigi is so damn weird) Looking forward to learning more about the character

Your sig is soooooooo dope man. Is that really you? If so, *insert Kreygasm here* that's legit Mario is a little similar to Luigi, but not as versatile since your wd's go a lot further

 

[JKJ]

Doc is I think 26 frames slower than Mario in all of his attacks. That's why he feels slower/heavier. But yup, Mario feels like a graceful angel when you get all the wavelands and such. Thank you man, I'm gonna keep the Mario dream alive! If you ever need to ask anything about Mario, let me know




Your sig is soooooooo dope man. Is that really you? If so, *insert Kreygasm here* that's legit Mario is a little similar to Luigi, but not as versatile since your wd's go a lot further

Wait, 26 frames total? lol like im thinking nair doesnt have half a second more startup for doc than for mario lol

And watching your mario style on the best of the best gives me hope man, for real. Keep it up

 

[KoopaTroopa895]

I think he means six frames

Wait, 26 frames total? lol like im thinking nair doesnt have half a second more startup for doc than for mario lol

And watching your mario style on the best of the best gives me hope man, for real. Keep it up

means six.

 

[a rookie]

Yeah, not 26!!!!!!!!!!!! haha. 6 But thanks again JKJ. I'm striving to be the best at this game, not just really good. I hope to do that someday. I won't let character MU's/limitations overcome my dream.

 

[JKJ]

Oh ok six makes more sense and WOW that's a significant difference! That's why Doc feels awful lol
And yeah a rookie and koopatroopa (i saw that vid of you swagging on that sheik at TNE) keep on keepin on. That's the spirit rookie! You're gonna be the best I feel it lol... and koopatroopa record more vids I want to watch more marios :D

Also guys my brother and I were arguing about the Mario puff matchup earlier... I know its worse than doc puff but which do you play, doc puff or mario puff? If you play mario then how does the matchup work, and it is really hard for mario? just wondering, thanks.

 

[a rookie]

Oh ok six makes more sense and WOW that's a significant difference! That's why Doc feels awful lol
And yeah a rookie and koopatroopa (i saw that vid of you swagging on that sheik at TNE) keep on keepin on. That's the spirit rookie! You're gonna be the best I feel it lol... and koopatroopa record more vids I want to watch more marios :D

Also guys my brother and I were arguing about the Mario puff matchup earlier... I know its worse than doc puff but which do you play, doc puff or mario puff? If you play mario then how does the matchup work, and it is really hard for mario? just wondering, thanks.

Doc/puff would be easier since you have great bairs, pills, and fair(kills really early). Mario has to work pretty hard to kill puff. But Mario has a good fsmash w/ range that Doc doesn't. But our fsmash isn't as mobile as Doc's fair. So that's why I think he wins that one. Doc might be a bit slower, but his moves stun more as well. Mario would have a hard time getting a kill/getting in. Opposed to Doc where he can just fair wall(his priority is better than Mario's) and pill(the trajectory is a lot better since it bounces more than a fireball, making a somewhat safe approach) approach. Yeah, Koopa needed to beat one more person at TNE in pools to make it out. But it didn't happen

 

[BluEG]

Your sig is soooooooo dope man. Is that really you? If so, *insert Kreygasm here* that's legit Mario is a little similar to Luigi, but not as versatile since your wd's go a lot further

Hahah yeah, its extremely risky but its such a fun technique to do that I always go for it. Landing it is so satisfying

You're bair edgeguards are nasty, im taking notes for my Luigi.

 

[JKJ]

Doc/puff would be easier since you have great bairs, pills, and fair(kills really early). Mario has to work pretty hard to kill puff. But Mario has a good fsmash w/ range that Doc doesn't. But our fsmash isn't as mobile as Doc's fair. So that's why I think he wins that one. Doc might be a bit slower, but his moves stun more as well. Mario would have a hard time getting a kill/getting in. Opposed to Doc where he can just fair wall(his priority is better than Mario's) and pill(the trajectory is a lot better since it bounces more than a fireball, making a somewhat safe approach) approach. Yeah, Koopa needed to beat one more person at TNE in pools to make it out. But it didn't happen

So you play doc in that mu?
I was just wondering how mario/puff worked in general, also. thanks for all the replies. traditional plumber da bess

 

[a rookie]

Hahah yeah, its extremely risky but its such a fun technique to do that I always go for it. Landing it is so satisfying

You're bair edgeguards are nasty, im taking notes for my Luigi.

Lol, thanks man (: I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, so I go ALL THE WAY out there to get my kills. Lol. Then if I do that enough, it baits them to land on the stage and I can punish accordingly. But yeah, I wanna try that fireball momentum. Looks too fun. I've seen it before, but always forget to use it when I play Luigi in friendlies

So you play doc in that mu?
I was just wondering how mario/puff worked in general, also. thanks for all the replies. traditional plumber da bess

No, I ONLY use Mario in tournament besides a couple matches in the past. But yes, I use Mario in that MU and just try to get quick damage, and try to read their flight patterns so I can land an fsmash/upsmash on them

 

[Aidoony]

put the controller on your lap and hold down and mash harder

 

[a rookie]

^What sharkboy said