BballLuke13
Smash Cadet
I find myself getting beat by Mario and Ness players a lot as Robin. Most other matchups I don't have a lot of trouble with, just those two (mostly Mario). What can I do to tip the scales in my favor?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Mario & Ness Matchup Help?
- Thread starter BballLuke13
- Start date
megabbaut
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 89
You outrange Mario with your aerials. Try not to be too predictable with your thunder spells, otherwise they will be reflected/absorbed. Though Arcfire won't be too much trouble when reflected since it will miss you more often than not.
One thing I like to do is use Arcthunder up close when they don't expect it, leading into Fsmash, Fair, Nosferatu, or a grab. So try that.
Punish Ness for every whiff of PK Fire. You can gimp his recovery with Nair. You can also use Arcthunder to punish their ledge options.
One thing I like to do is use Arcthunder up close when they don't expect it, leading into Fsmash, Fair, Nosferatu, or a grab. So try that.
Punish Ness for every whiff of PK Fire. You can gimp his recovery with Nair. You can also use Arcthunder to punish their ledge options.
•Col•
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,450
Against Mario you gotta keep cool and space very well. Mario can really take advantage of Robin if you mispace/mistime an attack. Once he gets in on you and starts comboing it can be tough to get him off, so you don't want that. You have to play very well, but on the upside, if you do play well I don't think the matchup is that horrible for Robin.
The biggest tip I can give you is you is to properly space and time your forward airs. Robin's fair has a lot more range than pretty much all of Mario's moves. If you space them well it can be difficult for a Mario to get in, especially if you space them properly underneath a low platform like on Battlefield.
Mario's cape allows him to get around a lot of your arcfire traps and can allow him to punish your arcfire casting if you mistime it. If the Mario player is quick to react and notices you starting an arcfire, he cast use his cape and reflect the arcfire with the backswing of it and still have enough time to get a grab/dash attack onto you before the arcfire animation ends.
Another thing to be careful of is to pay close attention to Mario when you're recovering. Mario abuse your recovery better than most other characters can. That being said, a lot of his edgeguarding options are really telegraphed, so as long as you pay close and mix up your recovery based off what he does, you should be able to make it bake safely most of the time. Also watch out, if he capes the first hit of elwind it'll reflect upwards and spike you instead of him, so don't go for any risky spikes with it.
The matchup takes experience to get used to, and even once you do it'll still be kinda tough. Not unwinnable tho.
As for Ness, the matchup can be way tougher or easier depending on if they know one technique; It's possible to instantly cancel PSI magnet into a jump/roll as soon as it starts absorbing a projectile. If they know about this trick and use it, then well, it sucks for you. Your projectiles will heal him, and you'll be unable to punish PSI magnet no matter what you do.
Arcfire will become nearly useless against a Ness that uses this technique. The only time you can really trap him with arcfire is when he's in the air and he's already used(or is in the process of using) his midair jump. For instance, if he's used his midair jump and is falling to the ground. In that case, you can cast an arcfire where he is going to land to bait out the PSI magnet, then hit him before he touches the ground and is able to cancel the animation.
To win against Ness you're just going to have to try to beat him with your normal attacks for the most part. I like to stick to the basic Thunder tome rather than charging it since the charged projectiles all have a long enough cast/flight time for Ness to react and PSI magnet them. Use this sparingly to flinch him and mess up his spacing/timing.
The biggest tip I can give you in this matchup is to go ballz-deep offstage against Ness. Robin is decent against edgeguarding him. When I hit Ness far offstage, I like to charge thunder to Elthunder. Elthunder can be very good for trapping Ness if he's far offstage. You can shoot the Elthunder to force Ness to commit to an option. He either has to: Airdodge, Immediately double jump, or PSI magnet.
If he immediately double jumps, then jump out at him and go for a fair/nair. He'll be forced to airdodge in this situation so you can try to bait it out. If he airdodges and recovers low, then that's good. Robin is floaty enough that you can go out pretty low against Ness. A nair hit will kill Ness down there. Don't be afraid of getting hit with his PK thunder. Practice teching the PK thunder stage spike. (There's a huge frame window to tech Ness' pk thunder stage spike). I can't tell you how many kills I've gotten on Ness for simply jumping down and trying to hit Ness out of PK thunder because I wasn't afraid. Even if you don't hit him and he gets the PK thunder launch, the launch distance is cut in half. I've won several matches just by jumping in front of Ness while he's PK thundering to recover, then I just tech the stage and watch Ness fall to his death. People are too afraid of PK thunder recovery and don't take advantage of it enough imo.
If he uses PSI magnent against your Elthunder edgeguard trap, then he can cancel it immediately into a double jump(cover this the same way I said to before as if he immediately double jumped) or either hold it for a while and drop down before cancelling it and double jumping(cover this the same way as if he airdodged the Elthunder) .
(Also, just another little side tip: If you see Ness starting PK thunder below you, remember you can use Elwind to shoot a projectile down at him to stop the PK thunder juggle trap.)
Anyway, that's about all I got for now. Hope it helps.
The biggest tip I can give you is you is to properly space and time your forward airs. Robin's fair has a lot more range than pretty much all of Mario's moves. If you space them well it can be difficult for a Mario to get in, especially if you space them properly underneath a low platform like on Battlefield.
Mario's cape allows him to get around a lot of your arcfire traps and can allow him to punish your arcfire casting if you mistime it. If the Mario player is quick to react and notices you starting an arcfire, he cast use his cape and reflect the arcfire with the backswing of it and still have enough time to get a grab/dash attack onto you before the arcfire animation ends.
Another thing to be careful of is to pay close attention to Mario when you're recovering. Mario abuse your recovery better than most other characters can. That being said, a lot of his edgeguarding options are really telegraphed, so as long as you pay close and mix up your recovery based off what he does, you should be able to make it bake safely most of the time. Also watch out, if he capes the first hit of elwind it'll reflect upwards and spike you instead of him, so don't go for any risky spikes with it.
The matchup takes experience to get used to, and even once you do it'll still be kinda tough. Not unwinnable tho.
As for Ness, the matchup can be way tougher or easier depending on if they know one technique; It's possible to instantly cancel PSI magnet into a jump/roll as soon as it starts absorbing a projectile. If they know about this trick and use it, then well, it sucks for you. Your projectiles will heal him, and you'll be unable to punish PSI magnet no matter what you do.
Arcfire will become nearly useless against a Ness that uses this technique. The only time you can really trap him with arcfire is when he's in the air and he's already used(or is in the process of using) his midair jump. For instance, if he's used his midair jump and is falling to the ground. In that case, you can cast an arcfire where he is going to land to bait out the PSI magnet, then hit him before he touches the ground and is able to cancel the animation.
To win against Ness you're just going to have to try to beat him with your normal attacks for the most part. I like to stick to the basic Thunder tome rather than charging it since the charged projectiles all have a long enough cast/flight time for Ness to react and PSI magnet them. Use this sparingly to flinch him and mess up his spacing/timing.
The biggest tip I can give you in this matchup is to go ballz-deep offstage against Ness. Robin is decent against edgeguarding him. When I hit Ness far offstage, I like to charge thunder to Elthunder. Elthunder can be very good for trapping Ness if he's far offstage. You can shoot the Elthunder to force Ness to commit to an option. He either has to: Airdodge, Immediately double jump, or PSI magnet.
If he immediately double jumps, then jump out at him and go for a fair/nair. He'll be forced to airdodge in this situation so you can try to bait it out. If he airdodges and recovers low, then that's good. Robin is floaty enough that you can go out pretty low against Ness. A nair hit will kill Ness down there. Don't be afraid of getting hit with his PK thunder. Practice teching the PK thunder stage spike. (There's a huge frame window to tech Ness' pk thunder stage spike). I can't tell you how many kills I've gotten on Ness for simply jumping down and trying to hit Ness out of PK thunder because I wasn't afraid. Even if you don't hit him and he gets the PK thunder launch, the launch distance is cut in half. I've won several matches just by jumping in front of Ness while he's PK thundering to recover, then I just tech the stage and watch Ness fall to his death. People are too afraid of PK thunder recovery and don't take advantage of it enough imo.
If he uses PSI magnent against your Elthunder edgeguard trap, then he can cancel it immediately into a double jump(cover this the same way I said to before as if he immediately double jumped) or either hold it for a while and drop down before cancelling it and double jumping(cover this the same way as if he airdodged the Elthunder) .
(Also, just another little side tip: If you see Ness starting PK thunder below you, remember you can use Elwind to shoot a projectile down at him to stop the PK thunder juggle trap.)
Anyway, that's about all I got for now. Hope it helps.
FieryRebirth
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 511
- NNID
- Rara-Avis
- Switch FC
- 7032-4095-8921
Ness is probably my favorite human opponent to practice my Thunder fake-outs on as PSI magnet can usually leave them wide open if the spacing between you two is close enough for a punish.
Mario is a different story--he has few noticeable end lag on his attacks and an usually un-punishable USmash. Plus, his cape comes out quick and is spammable. As Col mentioned, you have to try to not leave yourself open against skilled Marios and perhaps be more unpredictable in your move patterns.
Mario is a different story--he has few noticeable end lag on his attacks and an usually un-punishable USmash. Plus, his cape comes out quick and is spammable. As Col mentioned, you have to try to not leave yourself open against skilled Marios and perhaps be more unpredictable in your move patterns.