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Mario Universe Mario Mysteries

Yink

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Ok really, there's a couple things in the Mario Series that really make me wonder. They either changed things over time, or...maybe forgot about them? I want to know some of your guy's "how does that work" or "is it just me or x = y in the Mario series" stuff.

For me...it's Yoshi for one. Is it a dragon or a dinosaur? In the newer games he's said to be a Dinosaur, he even looks like one. Yet, in Super Mario World he signs his name "Super Dragon Yoshi". I'm very confused.

Then there's Birdo...if I remember this correctly, Birdo was a guy, who wished to be more like a girl. Yet now in the newer games it's just implied it's a girl. They use "she" and "her" and whatever it is is paired up with Yoshi of all things.

What do you think?
 

Zajice

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I know that Birdo was deliberately changed to be a girl since the idea of a ****** in a Mario game wasn't exactly very appealing. I swear I've seen people get into huge arguments over what gender it's supposed to be.

As for Yoshi, I dunno. I always thought he was a dinosaur.



I for one have always wondered when the hell Bowser ever had kids (with who for that matter...) and why did he abandon them for all this time up until New Super Mario Bros Wii?
 

justaway12

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This is an article about Birdo, http://themushroomkingdom.net/birdo.shtml take from it what you will @_@
After this quote, I'm pretty sure she's a girl, with possible captian rainbow spoilers.
Early on in the game, you find "proof" that Birdo is female, but the item is censored with a large question mark.


Pretty sure Yoshi is a dinosaur, though that dragon thing is confusing, I mean he does live in Dinosaur land and I think other than his final smash I think he's pretty constantly called a dinosaur.

I don't think Bowser has a wife, Nintendo Power realeased an article saying it was a person called Clawdia Koopa, but that's -most likely- a joke. IDK >.<
Read here: http://www.mariowiki.com/Clawdia_Koopa#Clawdia_Koopa
 

Terywj [태리]

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I've always considered Yoshi a dinosaur, especially with the body buildup and all, but then his final smash in Brawl is like Super Dragon Yoshi or something so that threw me off. Yoshi does spit fire, so I guess that could attribute to it.

-Terywj
 

Tacel

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Birdo is probably a girl considering her being feminine and her spitting eggs.

For Yoshi, let's just say that he's a dragasaur.
 

UberMario

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Here are a few mysteries I thought were strange:

-In every Mario game since 1994, Charles Martinet has given him basically the same tone (well, it's gotten slightly lower steadily, but it still sounds similar), same pitch, and same accentuation in Mario's voice, all the way up to present. HOWEVER Luigi is ALSO voiced by Charles Martinet, but has never kept the same voice for more than five years.

Here are a list of blatantly different voice styles for Luigi:
-(American/European Mario Kart 64 1996-1997) He sounds very deep and has a heavy accent.
-(First Mario Party, JP Mario Kart 64 1996-1998? 2001 if you include the MK:SC) He has a very high pitched (like it's practically as high as Peach's) voice with only a light accent.
-(Mario Party 2 and 3, Tennis? 1998-2001) Still a high pitched voice, but a slightly heavier accent.
-(Recent Mario Parties, Super Mario Galaxy, Mario & Luigi Series 2001-2007) He has a very heavy accent, but his voice is not as heavily pitched as in US Mario Kart 64.
-(Luigi's Mansion and Brawl) He has a mellow tone with a medium accent.

Now what I want to know is, how come his voice was changed so much? Also, Toad has changed his voice nearly as many times as Luigi.

Bowser had his color "scheme" changed after Super Mario World, yet it wasn't a graphical error since the first games actually had artwork that pictured him with more green.

Also, the "big head" art style used in Super Mario Kart R, the beta version of Mario Kart 64, was also used in the beta version of Mario Kart: Super Circuit, which had at least six tracks not found in game and trailing affects for the green shells like in MK64 that also didn't make it into the final game. Why would they bother porting the beta graphics into another game five years later if they decided they weren't using them anyway? Especially since they ended up using the graphics from the final version of Mario Kart 64?

While I'm at Mario Kart: Super Circuit, there are heavy indications that this game was rushed to release, including:
-Wacky Physics when you've completed the race (while your driver is parading, notice on tracks like Rainbow Road that they'll go at maximum speed across bumpers)
-CPUs stop in their tracks instantly after hitting a banana/mouser/etc. rather than sliding forward
-You can't fire items on top of the starting grids on ghost-type courses
-Shells cannot make jumps, rendering spinies almost useless on tracks like Bowser's Castle 3, Mario Circuit 2, Cheese Land, and Rainbow Road
-The Japanese Mario Kart 64 voices used in all releases of Mario Kart: Super Circuit (rather than the US/European versions of the former)
-And (most notably) the lack of any stage props on the retro tracks.

Ignoring the first few, why is the last one so mysterious? Because they already had the physics for each model programmed in game. The Shy Guys in teepees work exactly the same as the Monty Moles, the Totem Poles, Vines, and Presents work the same as the pipes, the Thwomps and Piers work the same as . . . the Thwomps and Piers, the Mousers work the same as the Cheep-Cheeps and Oil Slicks, and the Boost Pads work exactly the same as the Zippers from Super Mario Kart. So if they only had to swap the textues (which was easily possible, the Totem Poles, Vines, and Presents all used the same coding apparently) and place them on the courses why didn't they? That shouldn't have taken another two weeks to do.
 

lordvaati

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forget Birdo, what's up with Vivian from Paper Mario?

that's like on the same Trap tier as Bridget and Poison.
 

Beware the Jabberwocky

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Yoshi was a dinosaur in the Super Mario Movie, so I'm going to go with... a dragon.

One of the greatest mysteries of all is: Where did Mario and Luigi come from? They never explain that. I mean, in some of the non-canon material (Like the Super Mario Super Show and the movie) it is... sort of explained. But never in any game is there any mentioning of it. The Toads and Koopas just accept these two weird little humans into their world without even questioning it. Peach and Rosalina are the only other humans in the Mushroom Kingdom... until it's time for sports-day

Then along come several other human-esque people, like Daisy (The weird sister of Peach that I guess lives at a different castle) and Wario and Waluigi. Then there were these weirdos that showed up for Mario Golf 64 (Plum, Charlie, Sonny, Harry, Maple) That you never see again.

Where are these humans coming from? Is there an unknown human kingdom out there? Did they find the same drain-pipe to crawl down? I just dont know...
 

finalark

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One of the greatest mysteries of all is: Where did Mario and Luigi come from? They never explain that. I mean, in some of the non-canon material (Like the Super Mario Super Show and the movie) it is... sort of explained. But never in any game is there any mentioning of it. The Toads and Koopas just accept these two weird little humans into their world without even questioning it. Peach and Rosalina are the only other humans in the Mushroom Kingdom... until it's time for sports-day
Given how loose the Mario cannon is, I always assumed that they came from Brooklyn. My explaination is that the Mario Brothers were working the sewers, acidently entered a warp pipe and ended up in Mushroom Kingdom.

Then along come several other human-esque people, like Daisy (The weird sister of Peach that I guess lives at a different castle) and Wario and Waluigi. Then there were these weirdos that showed up for Mario Golf 64 (Plum, Charlie, Sonny, Harry, Maple) That you never see again.
I always assumed that they arrived under similar circomstances.

Where are these humans coming from? Is there an unknown human kingdom out there? Did they find the same drain-pipe to crawl down? I just dont know...
Drain-pipe, man. Alway the way.

Hooray for fannon.

So here's my question: Why the hell did Luigi become such a wuss after Luigi's Mansion? Before hand, the only real characterization that was given to him were the old cartoons and some comics. In those he was usually protrayed as being fairly inteligent and could easily do some good on his own, that is, if my memory is correct. And it wasn't until Paper Mario 1 that he recieved any in-game characterization, there he was more or less the same character, only somewhat envious of Mario. And then rolls along Luigi's Mansion, sure it was mentioned in Paper Mario that he's afraid of ghosts but after LM he's suddenly a weak-sauce wuss who probably couldn't even beat anyone in a thumb war! Were the events inside the Mansion seriously that tramatic to him or something?
 

Beware the Jabberwocky

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Given how loose the Mario cannon is, I always assumed that they came from Brooklyn. My explaination is that the Mario Brothers were working the sewers, acidently entered a warp pipe and ended up in Mushroom Kingdom.



I always assumed that they arrived under similar circomstances.



Drain-pipe, man. Alway the way.

Hooray for fannon.

So here's my question: Why the hell did Luigi become such a wuss after Luigi's Mansion? Before hand, the only real characterization that was given to him were the old cartoons and some comics. In those he was usually protrayed as being fairly inteligent and could easily do some good on his own, that is, if my memory is correct. And it wasn't until Paper Mario 1 that he recieved any in-game characterization, there he was more or less the same character, only somewhat envious of Mario. And then rolls along Luigi's Mansion, sure it was mentioned in Paper Mario that he's afraid of ghosts but after LM he's suddenly a weak-sauce wuss who probably couldn't even beat anyone in a thumb war! Were the events inside the Mansion seriously that tramatic to him or something?
Well, Lest we forget that Good Ol' Luigi becomes playable in SMG. So you may play the entire game again as Luigi, doing all the flying moves and super spins his older brother did. In SSBB, however, he was a frickin' pansy. He wouldnt even karate chop a Waddle-Dee.
 

Dru2

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Way back on Birdo (i say way back but it's still the first page lol) Did anyone read her Brawl Trophy? It says she is a creature of Indeterminate gender.
 

finalark

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Well, Lest we forget that Good Ol' Luigi becomes playable in SMG. So you may play the entire game again as Luigi, doing all the flying moves and super spins his older brother did. In SSBB, however, he was a frickin' pansy. He wouldnt even karate chop a Waddle-Dee.
I always considered the bits where you play as Luigi non-cannon.

Anyway, so to make things more interesting, here's my offical unoffical Mario Timeline, with the games bolded:

1981 Donkey Kong --> Mario Bros (the arcade game) ---> Mario and Luigi travel to the Mushroom Kingdom via Warppipe ---> Super Mario Bros. --- Toad and friends accept the Bros into their kingdom after saving Peach (where SHE came from is still up in the air) ---> Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels ---> Super Mario 64 ---> Super Mario Sunshine ---> Super Mario Bros. 3 ---> New Super Mario Bros. Wii --> The Koopa Kids (baring B. Jr.) decide that their Dad is nuts and don't want anything to do with him --> Super Mario Galaxy

That's how I think it goes, take it or leave it.
 

Bowser King

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1981 Donkey Kong --> Mario Bros (the arcade game) ---> Mario and Luigi travel to the Mushroom Kingdom via Warppipe ---> Super Mario Bros. --- Toad and friends accept the Bros into their kingdom after saving Peach (where SHE came from is still up in the air) ---> Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels ---> Super Mario 64 ---> Super Mario Sunshine ---> Super Mario Bros. 3 ---> New Super Mario Bros. Wii --> The Koopa Kids (baring B. Jr.) decide that their Dad is nuts and don't want anything to do with him --> Super Mario Galaxy

That's how I think it goes, take it or leave it.

NSMBDS would likely come after NSMBW with Bowser Jr. still believing in his dad.
 

Evil Eye

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Where's Yoshi's Island, New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros DS, Super Mario Bros 2? And why did you change the order around?

I mean it's cool that you're trying but it looks pretty random. Nothing really implies the order you put up.



EDIT: Oh right and Super Mario World.
 

UberMario

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So would the events of Super Mario World come in between SMB3 and NSMBWii then?

@Evil Eye: It's assumed that Yoshi's Island is the very first game, (technically with YIDS coming in second) NSMB is the same as NSMBDS (literally) and Super Mario Bros 2 could fit anywhere after SMB1:LL since it was supposedly a dream.
 

Yink

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It's a nice start really, the Timeline you've proposed. But yeah we need the babies in there somewhere.

EDIT: Oh right and Super Mario World.
I missed EE's post...sorry >_<. But yeah, gotta include this too.
 

finalark

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Where's Yoshi's Island, New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros DS, Super Mario Bros 2? And why did you change the order around?

I mean it's cool that you're trying but it looks pretty random. Nothing really implies the order you put up.



EDIT: Oh right and Super Mario World.
It's just ment to be the basis for further theories and speculation, with the other games being patched in later.

Also, the order isn't random at all, I based it off of the events and characters showing up in them.

So would the events of Super Mario World come in between SMB3 and NSMBWii then?
I was thinking it might come between Mario 64 and Sunshine. Seeing how Bowser Jr. wasn't around in SMW.

@Evil Eye: It's assumed that Yoshi's Island is the very first game, (technically with YIDS coming in second) NSMB is the same as NSMBDS (literally) and Super Mario Bros 2 could fit anywhere after SMB1:LL since it was supposedly a dream.
Not sure how to fit Yoshi's Island in there....
 

Evil Eye

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Hmmm. I think the timeline subject has enough meat to be a topic unto itself, actually.

I nominate UberMario to start the project, because he is the Spire to the Mario board's LoZ.
 

Beware the Jabberwocky

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Oh, yeah, Mario and Luigi (And Peach and... Wario) were all apparently born in the Mushroom Kingdom.

*grunt* now where are these kid's mothers, and where did THEY come from?! Were they plumbers too?
 

Yink

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Hmmm. I think the timeline subject has enough meat to be a topic unto itself, actually.

I nominate UberMario to start the project, because he is the Spire to the Mario board's LoZ.
I second this notion! I've always wanted a Mario Timeline and I know Uber loves these games, he'll do a great job.
 

finalark

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Hmmm. I think the timeline subject has enough meat to be a topic unto itself, actually.

I nominate UberMario to start the project, because he is the Spire to the Mario board's LoZ.
I third this motion, although I'm starting to wonder if I started something terrible/wonderful/bizzare.
 

Yink

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I third this motion, although I'm starting to wonder if I started something terrible/wonderful/bizzare.
Honestly I think it's a great idea. While the Mario games don't necessarily follow specifics all the way through, there's obvious connections that help the game along.

Making a timeline will be interesting for this series, and it'll be fun to really think about how they all can (hopefully) tie together. The series would probably start around Yoshi's Island.
 

finalark

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It would spread some light on the situation of things... But Miyamoto will probably keel over if he saw that we are trying to rationalize Mario as much as we try to rationalize Zelda.
Half of the fun is making a big deal out of the smallest of details in each of the games. Besides, fannon is fun! Even if it does kill Miyamoto....
 

Evil Eye

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It's more likely to make UM slowly go insane and take his own life but that's a risk I'm willing to take for the good of this project.
 

A_man13

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But poking fun at the small details is fun. Why else would this thread exist?

And, about that whole humans in the mushroom kingdom dealie, I think that they have always coexisted together. Baby Mario and Luigi did live in a mushroom house under the supervision of two humans at the end of Yoshi's island. Is it that wrong that Mushroom people and humans live side by side?
 

UberMario

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Hmmm. I think the timeline subject has enough meat to be a topic unto itself, actually.

I nominate UberMario to start the project, because he is the Spire to the Mario board's LoZ.
I second this notion! I've always wanted a Mario Timeline and I know Uber loves these games, he'll do a great job.
I third this motion, although I'm starting to wonder if I started something terrible/wonderful/bizzare.
Well I don't know what to say, I'd be honored to do it!

Oh, yeah, Mario and Luigi (And Peach and... Wario) were all apparently born in the Mushroom Kingdom.

*grunt* now where are these kid's mothers, and where did THEY come from?! Were they plumbers too?
I'd say they did away with the Brooklyn origin idea, since Cranky Kong never mentions being to NYC nor does Nintendo mention the actual original plot to Super Mario Bros. And if you ever went to the end of Yoshi's Island
it reveals that Mario and Luigi's parents are just generic peasents that lived in a mushroom in a small town in the Mushroom Kingdom, Yoshi's Island DS and Super Mario RPG kind of extends the idea with Peach apparently being at least third-generation royalty and Wario apparently being an orphan I guess.

It would spread some light on the situation of things... But Miyamoto will probably keel over if he saw that we are trying to rationalize Mario as much as we try to rationalize Zelda.
lol True, well then again, they did try to make Super Mario Galaxy somewhat serious and rational to a degree. :laugh:
 

finalark

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I'd say they did away with the Brooklyn origin idea, since Cranky Kong never mentions being to NYC nor does Nintendo mention the actual original plot to Super Mario Bros. And if you ever went to the end of Yoshi's Island
it reveals that Mario and Luigi's parents are just generic peasents that lived in a mushroom in a small town in the Mushroom Kingdom, Yoshi's Island DS and Super Mario RPG kind of extends the idea with Peach apparently being at least third-generation royalty and Wario apparently being an orphan I guess.
Something closer to....

Yoshi's Island --> Yoshi's Island DS ---> Super Mario Bros. --- Toad and friends accept the Bros as heroes after saving Peach ---> Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels ---> Super Mario 64 ---> Super Mario Sunshine ---> Super Mario Bros. 3 ---> New Super Mario Bros. Wii --> The Koopa Kids (baring B. Jr.) decide that their Dad is nuts and don't want anything to do with him --> Super Mario Galaxy
 

Bowser King

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I put my support in for a timeline thread.

Although there isn't as many things to discuss as there is in zelda, we could still have a ton of good discussions.

Also. Super Mario Bros, SMW and SM64 must come before sunshine in the timeline. This fits in perfectly with Finalark's timeline.

The reason being this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpIaNzzDQZo

Skip to around 5:30
 

lordvaati

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another thing: should Paper Mario be considered an alternate universe( see: Ultimate verse in Marvel), or should it be on the timeline too?
 

UberMario

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Not sure, Paper Mario could serve as a "Mario Finale" for the series in terms of time since Bowser's Castle blows up (then again it's blown up at least three times), he's really disappointed that he can't win when he's "invincible", and it's his first ultimate plan to be near succesful including victory against Mario (for a time).
 

Terywj [태리]

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As Vaati said, Paper Mario should be considered an alternent universe. That's how I always saw the trilogy, anyway.
Agreed. That and of course the baby stories would have a different listing, with the baby and adult lines intertwining during Partners In Time.

-Terywj
 

Metal~Mario

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1. What's the relationship between Wario & Waluigi?

2. Is BB the same age or older/younger than the Koopalings?

3. Goombas are defected Toads. Why did they defect?
 

Bowser King

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1. What's the relationship between Wario & Waluigi?

I'm fairly sure there brothers. Its unconfirmed but I think he's Wario's younger brother as luigi is mario's younger borther. However, since the Wario bros. are in a way the opposite to the mario bros, he may be the older one.


3. Goombas are defected Toads. Why did they defect?

It's never actually said that goombas were once toads. They just used to be residents of the mushroom kingdom at one point and then left for bowser. Its likely that the goombas are there own species.

 

Phantom7

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^I think I remember the SMB1 guide said something to that extent....
I've heard that somewhere, also. I have no clue where it was, though...

On the Wario/Waluigi relationship - Super Smash Bros Melee says their relationship is unknown in Waluigi's trophy info. It seems that they would be brothers, but there's really nothing that tells us that. I think Waluigi is just... there.
 

UberMario

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BB? Baby Bowser? That's Bowser when he was little. Bowser Jr. is most likely the youngest, in fact I could have sworn seeing that somewhere on an official site/booklet/whatever.
 
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